Robert King Breaks It Down
Posted by Craig Mazin on 06 Dec 2007 at 01:11 pm | Tagged as: WGA Issues
Robert King serves both on the Board of Directors of the WGAw and the WGA Negotiating Committee. He and I also co-chair the Credits Review Committee, and our friendship is a testament to bipartisanship.
That’s a nice way of saying “We don’t agree on much.”
Still, we agree on a lot when it comes to this negotiation. I asked Robert to try and outline the specifics of the issues we’re grappling with in this negotiation, because they’re a bit complicated in terms of what we had versus what we want, how we’re currently paid versus how we think we should be paid, etc.
Here’s the email he wrote me, and I appreciate his willingness to allow me to publish it. It’s a great primer on the details…and as we all know, that’s where the devil usually hides.
Dear Craig,
My personal observation is that negotiations have moved toward a better place. This might be just a brief respite before Negotiations Armageddon, but for the moment there is dialogue; and dialogue is essential for these difficult new media issues.
Part of the problem of negotiations—and especially this negotiation—is that both sides tend to interpret the contractual proposals and counter-proposals in one way: as an attempt to fuck them. This is complicated by the fact that sometimes management’s proposals are designed to do exactly that; and sometimes they aren’t designed to do that, but might be used later by less enlightened souls to do that.
So dialogue, in a smaller room, with fewer people, and less of the theatrics of negotiations, allows everyone to discover what wasn’t designed to fuck; or was designed to protect against being fucked by someone else and has only the appearance of a personal fuck; what was inelegantly put; what has unintended consequences, etc. It’s also a place where language can be designed that satisfies everyone’s fears of being fucked.
In other words, sometimes there is the illusion of being farther apart than we actually are; and smaller side bar dialogue helps us discover if that’s indeed the case.
And then again there is just plain old being far apart.
So, for the moment, during this la convivencia of Negotiation ’07, let’s look at the major new media issues; and see how far apart we really are.
In my opinion, there are four major new media issues.
Electronic Sell-Through
The clearest and easiest to understand is electronic sell-through, or Internet download (sales), or more colloquially the itunes model. When most writers first started thinking about new media they probably were thinking about this. Feature writers invariably are always thinking about this—because it is the closest new media issue to the old home video (DVD) model.
Management’s offer on this is still .3 percent: or a third of a cent for every dollar. Actually to be more exact it’s .36, a little more than a third and a half of a cent. This is the old DVD formula, or as the WGA calls it “The Royal Fucking.”
The Writer’s Guild wants management to pay 2.5 cents on every dollar.
There has been no movement from either side on this. The complication here is that there’s no apparent paradigm-shift to get both sides to an accepted number, so a resolution can only be reached through resolve, leverage, and intellectual justification.
Intellectual justification is never completely irrelevant in negotiations, but it’s mostly important only as a way to buttress resolve and leverage.
We writers clearly, in my opinion, have the winning argument here. The old home video formula was sold to the writers as unique from television residuals and necessary because of all the added packaging and manufacturing costs that came with creating VHS tapes and later DVDs. Well, of course, there is no equivalent packaging or manufacturing costs with download sales, so management, for the moment, seems to be left with the argument that they want it because, well, they want it.
Advertising-Supported Streaming
More complicated and interesting is the issue of ad-based streaming. Streaming, by the way, is when media is transmitted to your computer while you watch it.
You can currently find all sorts of TV fare on network-owned websites that allow you to catch up on last night’s LOST or discover a new show like BIONIC WOMAN for free. Management has embedded commercials into the viewing experience, which is where they make their money.
This is probably the most angering issue for TV writers because of the hypocrisy of management’s original contention. Management believed they could call these usages of TV and features “promotional”—even when there was advertising attached—and therefore pay no residuals to writers. This hypocrisy has a financial impact on writers, of course, because the value of an episode is limited; if a network could immediately stream an episode of TV on their web site, they wouldn’t necessarily need to rerun that episode on TV; and therefore the writer could be out the $21,078 a network must pay for a one-hour rerun.
Management has since retooled their “fuck-you-it’s-promotional” offer by making a new proposal which asks for a promotional window of six weeks—during which they could stream the show for free with ads and not pay us. After these six weeks, they would offer a fixed residual for unlimited reuse during the rest of the year.
This fixed residual would be 1.2% of the current network residual rate (just a reminder, that rate is: $21,078 for a one hour drama; $11,596 for a half hour comedy)—so, in the case of a one hour drama, management would pay $252 and 94 cents for unlimited streaming during the first year; and, in the case of a half hour, $139 and 15 cents.
Now, of course, the numbers are abysmally low—especially if you worry that a year of unlimited streaming might take the place of a network rerun (that’s a loss of over $20,826 for a one-hour writer); but I tend to take management at their word: that this is an initial lowball, and they’re giving themselves room to maneuver.
The Writers Guild has returned with a proposal that takes the framework of management’s fixed residual offer, but proposes that the percentage (again, based on the current network minimum) rise with any increase in number of streams. The web sites have to keep track of number of streams for their advertisers, so the Guild proposes that that calculation be used to make the fixed residual rise with more and more viewers.
This seems eminently fair because HEROES will have more streams than, let’s say, JOUREYMAN; and yet HEROES shouldn’t have its value undercut by a residual cut from JOURNEYMAN’s cloth; and JOURNEYMAN shouldn’t be priced out of the streaming market by something fashioned for HEROES.
One other thing: features have tended to be overlooked in this streaming morass. Management is still insisting on free “promotional” streaming use of movies. I intentionally put “promotional” in quotes, because management is again suggesting they can embed commercials and make money from streaming entertainment and still call it promotional. My guess is everyone is working on TV first, finding the magic formula, then we’ll all turn to features.
Subscription-Based Streaming
Subscription-based streaming is exactly what it sounds like: a Netflix-like service in which the consumer would pay a monthly fee for unlimited streaming views of product. This is where things might get easier because the Guild already has a definition on Internet rental. This was an achievement during the 2001 contract battle. But we will see.
Made-For-Internet
And the last sticky issue is made-for-Internet. This has two components. One is derivative works. These are shows that are spun off from current television shows: for example a ten minute webisode based on the show LOST or HEROES.
Then there are original works. One of the fears and expectations of writers is that the more technology converges, the more the Internet will become the new TV, and therefore no contract can really go forward without insisting that minimums, and pension and health, be extended to original Internet programs.
Currently management is only accepting that minimums and Guild coverage be applied to derivative works—that is the spin-offs of current TV shows. The offer is fairly low ball, and not really worth going into at the moment, because it’s management basically just putting their toe in the water.
The bigger worry is if management is insistent on not granting Guild jurisdiction for original Internet content. That could get messy. The Guild can’t really be complicit in its own suicide; and that’s pretty much what giving up Internet jurisdiction would amount to: a gradual suicide.
There are other issues—like jurisdiction in reality TV, animation, separated rights—which I haven’t gone into, mostly because I can’t speak with much proficiency about them. That doesn’t mean they aren’t important; and other negotiating committee members could speak with great conviction.
As for new media, all the issues are difficult and, to use high school term paper talk, multifaceted. But it does seem, to me, that management is taking the spirit of their “New Partnership” talk seriously—even if there is still the negotiations necessity of offering crazily lowball numbers. We’re talking. That’s a good thing.
Best,
Robert King


Funny, this is the exact verbiage I use to ask women out on dates.
But seriously, thanks to Robert for writing and Craig for posting.
Someone on another site made a comment about the fact that streamed shows with commercials IS promotional. They promote cars, drinks, stores etc.
Just one observation at first:
Why “management?” I think it can and sometimes is a deceptive label. More to the point, when he uses it he seems to group in networks and studios.
Here’s an example:
Well, not true. Networks have. Studios have done no such thing. And in his email, “management” should = “studios.”
The reason I think he and other people who clearly know the difference do this is because they don’t want to admit the distinction because it undercuts their ability to couch the argument as “management (a/k/a studios) are making money of this and we should be outraged.” Or as Robert puts it:
Now, isn’t that a fair point for me to make?
He’s right. I think that’s lame. And I bet when they do focus on that, a fair resolution will be made.
I should say though that, again, generally speaking, the guild has accepted the notion that something can be “promotional” and still make the studio money. It’s just a stretch to do so with the entire program or entire feature. I believe the AMPTP will back off of this, just as the WGA will drop reality (equally as unreasonable).
Agreed, but the guild also can’t try and murder the studios by insisting on minimums that effectively make it impossible for them to compete with producers that are non-guild signatories (eg, any jack ass with a camera and a pen).
And I regret not leading with this:
I think this email is well done. I have one serious issue(stated above), but in general I am VERY happy to know that someone with the thoughtfulness and tact of Robert King is involved in these negotiations.
You know…If I were negotiating this for the AMPTP, I’d give you what you want if you let me credit it against your other “broadcast” related residuals (not DVD or EST).
I also don’t think the nets placing their shows on their internet sites for a year is at all an issue. They wont do it. It will damage the studios syndication and DVD revenue.
Why is everybody thinking that whatever gets to be negotiated is what the writer is going to get?
If you write something that is successful you reap the benefits with
A) more employment B) bigger paycheck next time.
Start writing a show for the Internet that makes the Producers money. Then you will see other Producers offering you MORE money to write for them. You will see your rate skyrocketing. Yes, you are going to be paid what you are really worth.
I don’t think that Shawn Ryan’s contract was going to be higher that the 14 million dollars that it is now if the WGA minimum was different.
Hollywood loves to shower good writers with money.
“Poor” writers have only themselves to blame.
Do you think this will be true for the forseeable future, though? (not a rhetorical question, I just don’t know. Ten years down the line?)
Also, hey, does anyone know what the projected market share of paid episodic downloads vs free streaming is over the next 5-10 years? Just wondering.
Well done, Robert. Thanks for the update!
I don’t believe this is a good argument. The difference between a skateboarding dog clip and an episode of high production value, original programming is rather noticeable. They aren’t appealing to the viewer in any way similarly (not that a viewer can’t want both).
If this isn’t faught for until the end of days then the WGA is doomed. And the AMPTP knows this.
Plus the studios have been competing with non-signatories for quite some time in theaters: “Slacker” vs “Billy Bathgate” comes to mind as an early matchup.
If not minimums then what?
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the big hitters in the WGA using their clout to get the little guys more money. That is what’s happening.
I get what you are saying, josh, but it’s perfectly reasonable to unite to get more money than you would apart. I think some of your anger is probably directed at the wrtiers who cry foul when the AMPTP tries to use its clout to make them take less. Both sides are within their rights.
It certainly seems like this is the $64,000 question. If not, then one of the top three.
EDT,
Not saying “no minimums.” I’m saying “small minimums.”
You think a studio is going to plop 10 million on a 2 hour made-for-internet Pilot? Especially when “dog skateboarding” will probably draw more viewers. The cost is reflective of the projected revenue. Studios aren’t going to pay the same money to produce a made-for-internet original project. If you set a minimum too high (above market rate), then you set the studios up to fail.
I thought this was obvious.
No wonder this guild is fucked.
Did you just drop “obvious”?
Weren’t you scolded about this.
Again I am falling into the loathesome short coming of direct engagement. But I will quickly say that there will be some serious economic investment by the studios into original programming once the market reveals itself (how much… ?). You aren’t possibly insinuating that all internet options will be quick clips of stupid human tricks and Jaco Pastorius smacked out bass solos?
I am grateful to hear the Guild’s side from one of the horses’ mouths.
Clifford:
Until, and if, that time comes where there is no such thing as an affiliate (no syndication market) and DVD/EST sales aren’t substantial, then that should hold true forever. As long as the value of syndication and home video (including EST) holds, then protecting that will always be the paramount concern for the studio.
Eric, learn to write a coherent sentence and maybe you’ll not only get an answer to your question but also be a real writer one day.
I can’t use that word anymore? Obviously, I don’t give a hoot. I am here to deal with actual issues.
Loathesome? Why?
“Once the market reveals itself”? What are you talking about?
I don’t think the studios want to wait until the market is cornered before it gets its toe in the water.
Let me try and explain more clearly…
If the “market” right now for a writer to write an original 10 minute piece is say $500 and you insist that the studio pay $10,000 and both pieces have equal opportunity to perform well, then you have completely foreclosed the studio from being able to compete and develop an internet based business. Murdering the studios using Robert King’s framework.
Anyway, why can’t you just accept that a balance exists? The guild has issues about having no minimums. I could take issue with that and say they should take what the market gives them. But I get this idea of a guild using its leverage to get above market value. You seem to think that the studio doesn’t have a right to be worried about being shut out of a market that you call THE FUTURE. I don’t think you are being reasonable.
I was joking about “obvious” – I found it an amusing sidebar from the other day. Language is a beautiful thing. And everyone’s choice of words is very telling. I’d hardly censor yours.
“Loathesome” because these things can easily take on the form of a semiotics debate. We can essentially agree or disagree on a specific idea but the expression of the idea or other’s bead on that expression can make it seem otherwise. So I’m leery. That’s me though.
Your point on money holds true now. And though there are some that contest that Apple TV is a bust, I think it has its finger squarely on the pulse of the future (and not the ‘sci-fi future’, the ‘end of the decade’ – ‘middle of the next decade’ future). When people’s computers serve as their On-Demand browser for their televisions, that’s when the market will reveal itself (and skateboarding dogs won’t be sufficient entertainment).
What will a fair price for work generated for the internet be worth then? And when does that need to be addressed contractually?
Hmmm… hard to concentrate on latke recipes when someone in a position to know presents hard information about the state of the negotiations….
The model of Guild minimums for original Internet programming may end up being similar to the model for residuals for Internet repeats. That is, there may have to be a mechanism that allows WGA writers and studios to work together to create and distribute small experimental pieces as well as high-budget “broadcast-quality” programs, with a means to let the Guild share in the upside if a scripted “dog skateboarding” video becomes a smash hit (and monetizable). That’s my guess.
Well that’s why the contract isn’t forever and is, instead, up every 3 years. I think this whole concept of now being the time to solidify your future forever is bad for just this reason. Things change. And you can bet the WGA isn’t just going to take it in the pooper, as has clearly been shown.
So I don’t think it makes sense to try and play for 20 years from now if by doing that you essentially making that future impossible (God I hope that made sense). It only makes sense if you truly feel that it’s now or never. And since the WGA has been stoking that fear in its rhetoric, you find yourself in this Catch-22 situation. Create a reasonable minimum now and then revisit or maybe tie it to an overall budget (and still revisit). Something like that.
Like I’ve said from the start, you need studios and they need you. To solidify YOUR future is to solidify the studios’.
Tying made-for-internet minimums to overall budget makes sense to me (leaving out the inevitable issue of how to ensure market value budgeting). This is how many non-WGA direct to video-type feature contracts are done (or at least used to be). Writer gets 2%-3% of budget on commencement of production.
Of course, if the thing becomes a runaway hit, then the writer isn’t guaranteed much upside, beyond whatever residual is negotiated. But I think that’s life in new media. If Kevin ‘Obama Girl’ Arbouet still reads this, maybe he has an interesting perspective.
Our friend, the Stooge, said:
“…I am VERY happy to know that someone with the thoughtfulness and tact of Robert King is involved in these negotiations.”
Could you state why you would think otherwise?
Curious: have you spoken directly with any of the negotiation participants?
lt
That may be the simplest and therefore most practical route. It does have the drawback of the non-conforming case: the low-budget piece that becomes a breakout hit and generates a ton of revenue (where the writer will feel shortchanged).
The other non-conforming case is a piece that requires a high budget to get off the ground. But that’s self-limiting, since the writer’s percentage is not large enough to be the gating factor in approving the production.
Do you suppose such proposals are being floated by either side at the bargaining table?
And if I were negotiating for the WGA, I’d probably accept your offer.
Which of the two negotiating teams, do you think, is less likely to agree to the above arrangement? My guess: The AMPTP.
That’s nice of you to say. Speaking for myself, though, I don’t want to strike every 3 years in order to successfully defend my pooper. I want to get the best possible deal for the WGA now, so as to get this settled and not have to put the city through this all over again in 2010 (and 2013, and 2016…). Besides, the studios have demonstrated themselves to be singularly unwilling to re-open issues they declare to be resolved (witness, of course, that lousy VHS/DVD deal we’re still working under). They ain’t gonna change their stripes in 2010.
For better or worse, I’m afraid that NOW is the time for this to be settled.
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
Has anyone at the WGA considered that the reason the AMPTP might want to have a different pay structure for the internet, is because, believe or not, not many people actually have the ability or desire to down load any of our wonderful tv shows or movies? By Gods, I believe that, unlike free tv, there actually may be one or two homes in West Virginia that don’t even have (GASP!) internet.
This is why our position is so frustrating. We act like a residual which MAY get down-loaded ONCE by someone in ALASKA should get the same residual as an episode of, say, TWO AND A HALF MEN, that can be seen by 300 million + people.
Re: my last posting –
Obviously I meant “we act like a SHOW which may get down-loaded ONCE,” etc.
I think “Two And a Half Men” and the skateboarding dog deserve raises in their licensing fees for all of the fodder they have provided for this site.
Patrick:
I am not sure that the WGA just accepts the crediting. But I certainly don’t know how the AMPTP feels about this. I think your statement smacks of a little bias (not that you are necessarily pretending it doesn’t).
Not totally unreasonable but I wasn’t saying you had to strike. Maybe you are saying you do to get what you want. But I think that’s up for debate.
The AMPTP certainly believes you are going to strike every 3 years regardless, by the way. That I know for a fact.
Um…Schulman’s letter about the AMPTP Playbook. The WGA’s first press release after the media blackout. Many posts on this site. Just to name a few.
Yes. No one on the WGA side, though.
Huh? What? Haven’t they noticed we’ve spent the last 19 years not striking?
Well, I didn’t say they were right.
They are very concerned that by coming back to the table so soon that they only encouraged you. Plus, everyone seems (as in it’s their perception) to be having a gay old time.
I think they are wrong, but they do sincerely believe that at this point.
Man, I knew that special “gay seniors” picket was a bad idea.
The AMPTP expects us to strike every three years even though there is zero history to back it up?
And yet the wga is supposed to wait for a new media deal, even though history shows when writers let themselves get locked in a crappy rate, the AMPTP won’t reopen the issue?
That’s some whacked out logic.
Our friend, the Stooge, states:
“Um…Schulman’s letter about the AMPTP Playbook. The WGA’s first press release after the media blackout. Many posts on this site. Just to name a few.”
Per Mr. Schulman’s letter, which participant would give you cause to feel concern: the WGA party or the AMPTP party?
Per the posts on this site, please refer to the next question.
“Yes. No one on the WGA side, though.”
Since you’ve only spoken directly with AMPTP representatives, you must agree that anything you’ve heard from other sources is hearsay. Therefore, is the some aspect of the AMPTP discussions you have had that would lead to your concern?
Best,
lt
And we’ve seen it on both sides.
Hey, I never said the AMPTP reps aren’t themselves open to silly speculation.
I think you may be mixing two different issues: jurisdiction of made-for-internet production, and residuals for re-use of broadcast content on the internet.
In the case of the former, the WGA is not asking for the exact same pay structure on made-for-internet content as it does for made-for-broadcast content.
In the case of the latter, well, that’s why the WGA started by asking that the writer’s residual for online re-use be determined via a percentage of the revenue that that streamed episode/film generates (as opposed to a fixed fee, which, of course, the AMPTP declared it would never accept). If new media residuals were, in fact, percentage-based, the writer of that theoretical episode/movie that gets downloaded only once by some guy in Alaska (and thus earns the studio no revenue) would get a percentage of nothing, which would, of course, be nothing… which is about $10,000 less than the writer of that “2 And A Half Men” episode that was re-run in front of 300 million people.
[Note: the AMPTP responded to that reasonable offer by suddenly (and confusingly) switching course and putting a fixed fee residual on the table].
I’m hoping you already knew all of the above. If you didn’t, perhaps you should follow these negotiations a little more closely.
A good place to start would be to register for Writer Action (writeractionbbs.com), a WGA-member-only board. They’re usually pretty up-to-the-minute there, and folks have a pretty good grasp of the issues, so if you have future confusion (as in the above), you can get some answers quickly.
See you there,
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
The WGA.
Given that WGA information is hearsay, and AMPTP is admissible, why would you concern yourself with hearsay?
lt
You keep phrasing this the wrong way. It’s not that they wouldn’t reopen. You just agreed to allow them to not reopen. There is a difference.
A direct letter (Schulman) is not hearsay (though it just so happens that much of the contents of that letter was…so I should ask you why you are relying on hearsay). Nor is a press release.
Plus, and any lawyer on here will get a chuckle, the rule on hearsay is: no hearsay…but with the following 10,000 exceptions.
Our friend, the Stooge offers:
“A direct letter is not hearsay. Nor is a press release.”
Lets consider that letter: the only party explicitly mentioned in that communication is Mr. S.; there is no assignable AMPTP party (without some reasonable deniability); therefore, how is Mr. Schulman’s letter material?
“Plus, and any lawyer on here will get a chuckle, the rule on hearsay is: no hearsay…but with the following 10,000 exceptions.”
Which follows from the previous question, but still invites the observation: one must argue what’s hearsay and run the risk of that information being inadmissible; therefore, why would a thoughtful person (especially practiced in the way of US law) establish an informed opinion upon what is arguably hearsay?
lt
Stooge -
You’re harping on the Shulman letter way too much. It’s not like it created mass hysteria with writers weilding pitchforks, storming the negotiations, refusing to settle for a reasonable deal.
At most, it helped encourage a lot of pickters this week, which for my cause is a good thing.
And, in any business, there’s all sorts of silly gamesmenship a la the Art of War and how many other billion books corporate America uses as their bibles to succeed (I think it’s silly, but it’s amok).
I found it not remotely as hysterical as Nick Counter’s Baghdad Bob-esque, strike-hater baiting statement that writers were turning on each other in a massive blacklist. But again, I just laughed it off.
It has no real bearing on the deal.
lee,
I can’t keep going in circles and especially about something that doesn’t matter.
Again, the WGA releases statements to the public. Those statements are not hearsay. The Schulman letter is not hearsay for the purpose of proving the WGA’s PR tactics (direct statement by Schulman), though it’s contents are for the purpose of proving the AMPTP are a bunch of cut throat aholes (Schulman regurgitating the statements of someone else). In one case, we don’t know if the statement was completely fabricated. In the other, we all know who made the statement and that he did in fact make that statement.
Can we move on now?
Girlwriter, we’ve been over this. I happen to agree with you only if everyone else also agrees (ie, everyone laughs everything off).
But there are people out there that say “look, the AMPTP, they are so evil because of what my guild tells me…we must fight to the death!” To the extent that that is unproductive to getting a deal done, I would prefer any volatile statements contributing to that sentiment not be made.
Also, I hope you are equally as pragmatic then when you hear the AMPTP making statements or when interpreting certain actions from the past. Or are you going to argue that the WGA just decided now to get onboard with the concept of “gamesmanship?”
In short, if you want to vilify the AMPTP for certain behavior, then I don’t believe you can condone the same behavior from you own organization. Well, you can. You just aren’t credible.
But, look, I want to move past this too. I didn’t raise this.
Our friend, the Stooge offers:
“Can we move on now?”
Pardon, for I really don’t intend to be pedantic, but I need a few things tied off in a thoughtful manner to understand your contribution to this forum.
Specifically, you state:
“In one case, we don’t know if the statement was completely fabricated. In the other, we all know who made the statement and that he did in fact make that statement.”
So… what? That the Schulman statement is by your own admission inadmissible?
Yes or No?
And if it be no – by your own judgement – on what basis to you found your opinion:
“I am VERY happy to know that someone with the thoughtfulness and tact of Robert King is involved in these negotiations.”
It is a curiosity, no? That someone with your exposure to material and admissible participants on the AMPTP side hold such despair over the negotiations?
lt
Excellent break down, Robert King.
Thanks, man.
Craig, thanks for putting this up.
Craig, suggestion…
… limit the amount of times a commenter can post.
I’ll be happy to be proven wrong on this, but it doesn’t look we’ll be seeing any movement this week. Discussion, yes. Progress, no.
The last opportunity to get somewhere before the new year is next week. I believe that by the 17th most of the participants are going to be heading off for the holidays. I hope I’m wrong on that, but I don’t see the talks going on through Christmas and New Year’s Eve. I think we’re more likely to see the studios and networks cut loose the contracts they can under force majeure, release the actors from the series they don’t intend to pick up, and then break for the holidays, with talks resuming around the 3rd of the year or so. I have seen nothing to indicate any urgency on either side’s part to deal with these issues or come to an agreement before the new year.
If I’m wrong on that, I’ll be the first to celebrate it.
Something can be admissible for one purpose but not for the other. So if I want to prove that Schulman made a statement saying X about the AMPTP, then I can show a letter containing X signed by Schulman.
If I want to prove the AMPTP behave like cut-throat aholes, then I CANNOT use Schulman’s letter because he is repeating a statement made by someone else as evidence of such behavior. Repeating a conversation (by letter or orally) is hearsay. Showing a letter that repeats a conversation for a purpose other than proving the veracity of the statements therein does not have to be hearsay.
Btw, who cares? I’m also not a litigator.
Oy…I’m my own barometer for those things. As you say, I am making an opinion. The statement I made is not a statement of fact. It is also my own opinion and not that of anyone elses (not that I’ve had the chance to speak with anyone about Mr. King’s post…nor do I expect that my colleagues might ever read it since it’s just on this site). And, since I am not in a court room right now, I could use hearsay if I wanted to to form this opinion, but I don’t think I have.
With all due respect, lee, I think this is a sideshow. Let’s get back to meat and potatoes.
“Btw, who cares? I’m also not a litigator.”
I think most people posting here does care if you’re retained in any capacity by the AMPTP or other party where your compensation is related to advancing the legal case of one party over another?
It is an honest inquiry, no?
lt
ps need to follow up tomorrow – hopping a plane
I don’t rep the AMPTP. I represent a division of an AMPTP company in very specific matters. My compensation is in no way related to “advancing the legal case of one party over another.” I am a transactional attorney with a fixed income. I draft, I interpret and I advise. My knowledge of the “law” (outside my area) is probably pretty piss poor. And I’ve made my employment (even my salary) known from the start. I have nothing to hide but my name
Please don’t follow up. I’m not saying you aren’t being genuine (if I thought you weren’t, then I wouldn’t respond), but this really doesn’t have any relevance on me or this discussion.
But… this… isn’t a legal case. It’s a labor dispute.
Stooge – is the division you work for shut down? It seems you have a great deal of time on your hands. Did someone assign you to cover this blog during the strike?
Are you working on your Facebook page like very agent in town?
I’m not an agent. No one assigned me (nor does the AMPTP work that way, though I wish it did but then again I don’t work for the AMPTP) and I’d probably get in trouble if they found out. They just don’t shut down divisions, either.
It’s just really slow. But it would probably be pretty slow anyway this time of year.
Oh and it’s not like it takes me forever to post something. I thought it was obvious I didn’t put much work into it.
Ha.
Haha.
Hahaha.
HAHAHAHAHAHAH
AAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAJAHAHAHAJAHAHAHAJAHAJAHAJAHAJAHAJAHAHAHAHAHAHAJAJAJAJAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
(burp!)
Having looked at multiple sources, things are actually looking more unhappy than I had thought. I had been thinking, based on the behaviour of both sides, that the AMPTP would wait until the Christmas break to cut off talks while invoking their ability to cut off all contracts they felt they could.
Nikki Finke’s gossip blog, which is hopelessly slanted toward the WGA (so that it’s hard to parse any real information from the opinions of the people she’s depending on) assumes that the AMPTP will walk away from the talks tomorrow, a week earlier than I had thought. The dependably pessimisistic Variety coverage has the AMPTP giving a “final” offer and then walking away. And all accounts have the AMPTP and the WGA pretty much in deadlock. I had thought that the AMPTP would only use force majeure to annul the “deadwood” contracts they didn’t want anymore. But I must admit a possible error here.
The WGA is apparently engaged in a desperate appeal to the DGA not to negotiate yet, but the current situation indicates that the AMPTP will start the DGA negotiations deliberately to neutralize any perceived leverage held by the WGA.
We’ll know more tomorrow. I seriously hope that all sources have misunderstood the situation badly. If they haven’t, this will be a long strike, and Patrick’s two years of savings will be sorely needed.
And I’ll add that it’s nice of Nikki Finke to opine that the AMPTP will return to the WGA negotiations in February, but she STILL doesn’t get it. If there is no WGA contract by early February, Valentine’s day at the absolute latest, there will be no WGA contract until July. By mid-February, the 07-08 season is over and the pilot season is over. In that event, the networks will not spend any time with the WGA until they have signed contracts from both DGA and SAG. And SAG hasn’t even picked their negotiating committee yet.
Again, I really hope that that the AMPTP is blowing smoke here, but it doesn’t look like it.
Again, I really hope that that the AMPTP is blowing smoke here, but it doesn’t look like it.
Stuart offers:
Yesss.
Per earlier posts (two of them) I wanted to understand AMPTP’s alarm by a thoughtful standard, which is why I asked him to evaluate his information on the grounds of admissibility. As we progressed through the discussion, I also wanted him to answer the question if he is being paid to monitor this blog. He was thoughtful and responded to my inquiries, for which, I am appreciative.
lt
I hope I don’t need it. I hope that the AMPTP finally (finally!) responds to our various offers on streaming media with a fair deal (sorry, AMPTPStooge, I used the “f” word), so that we can end this strike and get back to work.
But if the AMPTP intends to walk away from the table and keep the WGA out on strike for months and months (or a year, or longer…), my family is prepared, in every fashion, for it.
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
Working AD, although grim, that last post was excellent. Which is why it is so grim.
Still, I ask, if the DGA makes a deal it’ll be way before July, right? If that’s the case, aren’t we kind of stuck with their deal?
I mean, to stay out until the actors strike would be an amazing feat alone, but we don’t even know what SAG is gonna do, right? They say they’ll support us, they say they’ll walk for a bad deal, but looking at the AMPTP standing over our 7 month strike-emaciated bodies is gonna be a scary sight for them.
Given the past conduct of the AMPTP, in this negotiation in particular, it’s reasonable to assume deception on their part. They’re still in a position where their companies lose a lot of money if the strike runs long. If they are in fact under time pressure to make a deal, it’s smart for them to pretend like they aren’t under pressure.
great piece RK, thanks craig for this.
some high powered hyphanates urging the DGA to use restraint. fair use
Directors urged to delay their contract talks
More than 300 writer-directors support the appeal in an effort to keep the Writers Guild of America contract negotiations from being undermined by studios.
By Claudia Eller and Richard Verrier Los Angeles Times Staff Writers
December 7, 2007
More than 300 writers who are also directors are urging Directors Guild of America leaders to hold off for now their own contract talks with the studios while Hollywood’s striking writers are engaged in their delicate negotiations.
The writer-directors are seeking to block any gambit by the studios to undermine writers by first reaching a new contract with the DGA.
The group, most of whom belong to the Writers Guild of America, made their request in a letter that was hand delivered Thursday to DGA officials. It was signed by some of the biggest names in the business, including brothers Joel and Ethan Coen, Ed Zwick, Lawrence Kasdan and Sean Penn. Writer-directors represent a minority of the DGA’s 13,400 members.
Although their contract doesn’t expire until June 30, directors, as is their custom, have begun preparing for early talks with the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers, the group that represents the studios.
Frustrated by the lack of progress in their negotiations with writers, the studios have been increasingly eager to turn their attention to the directors, with whom they have more cordial relations. In fact, in their 71-year history, directors have struck just once, in 1987 — and it barely qualified.
The walkout, in response to a cut in residual payments, lasted five minutes on the West Coast and three hours and five minutes on the East Coast.
The DGA has been preparing for talks with the studios for months, and on Thursday held its fourth negotiating committee meeting. But the directors so far have held off discussions in deference to the writers.
The letter, addressed to DGA President Michael Apted, negotiating committee Chairman Gilbert Cates and national Executive Director Jay Roth stated: “What we are asking is that the DGA not engage in contract talks with [studios] at this crucial time. We believe such talks would undermine the efforts of our creative partners. We all have a stake in this.”
One writer who signed the letter, Mike White (“Nacho Libre,” “School of Rock”), said: “It seems important that we should all stand together.”
A DGA spokesman said: “Our members have many different opinions on what we should be doing and we welcome all of them.”
Meanwhile, writers and studios made little headway during the seventh day of talks that resumed last week. The sides spent the morning haggling over various issues, including a guild proposal for increasing residuals for original premium cable shows and streaming of movies online. In the afternoon, writers waited several hours as studio negotiators worked on additional proposals expected to be submitted today.
Some studio leaders have told guild members that they are prepared to break off talks today if the guild does not accept their proposals, a source close to the guild said Thursday night.
Robert, I’m confused about the .3% for electronic sell-through. You said that it was basically the old DVD rate. I thought that was 4 cents. Sorry, I’m way behind here, and trying to catch up. So if someone could explain… Thanks in advance.
I’ll take a crack at it.
If the rate is .36 cents per dollar then I’m assuming the “4 cents per DVD” presumes producer’s receipts to be ten dollars per unit.
.36 x 10 rounded to the nearest cent would be 4 cents. no? anyone?
Moderate pinup Rob Long and political pundit Mickey Kaus having a video conversation about the strike:
http://bloggingheads.tv/video.php?id=479
Every time the subject of pattern bargaining comes up, people act as if it were the nuclear bomb of negotiations: Somehow, if the AMPTP gets the DGA to sign off on a crappy deal (where the issues we care about are concerned), then we’re absolutely obliged to fall into line and take it too, because “they’ll never agree to a better proposal than another union has already accepted.”
Well, allow me, if I may, to offer an opposing viewpoint: Fuck them, and fuck all the things they say they’ll never agree to.
They said they’d never negotiate with us unless we called off the strike first. But they did. They said they’d never discuss paying us for streaming. But they are.
The AMPTP could make a deal with the DGA by lunchtime today, and it would not change the position they’re in with respect to us one iota. They still won’t have any more scripts to shoot than they had on November 4. They still won’t be able to salvage the film productions (two more of them announced just yesterday, and you can bet more are still coming) that have been put on indefinite hold because they turned out not to have shootable scripts. They still won’t have the second half of the TV season, or pilot season, or the upfronts, or next year’s TV season. They still won’t have any answers other than cheery bullshit to offer the people on Wall Street who, over the past couple days, have finally begun asking them rather pointedly, “Hey, what about that massive pile of money you guys are fixing to lose next year because of this strike thing?”
So let the DGA do whatever they decide to do. You can be quite sure that any deal they sign while we’re still on strike will contain a provision stating that if we end up with better terms, they’ll get them retroactively too. The DGA can’t vote to end our strike; only we can. And nothing obliges us to do that until a deal is on the table that we are willing to work under. What third parties choose to do between now and that moment is simply noise, and should be treated as such.
In a sense, both we and the AMPTP have guns to our heads, but there’s a key difference between our situations. The gun aimed at their head is in the hands of outside parties, namely their shareholders. And Wall Street is a harsh fucking mistress when you behave in ways that lose your shareholders money that they don’t believe you needed to lose.
The gun aimed at our head might seem to be held by the AMPTP, but the thing is, they can’t pull the trigger on it; only we can. (By “pulling the trigger,” in this case, I mean accepting a deal that we genuinely don’t want, just so the strike will be over.)
The people holding the gun on the AMPTP really only have one question: How much will making a deal that the writers would accept cost you, compared with the amount of money that an ongoing strike will cost you, during the time frames shareholders care about? (Read: short-term.)
The people holding the gun on us — i.e., us — are asking a very different question: How much will being on strike cost us, compared with the amount of money that a favorable deal will earn for us during the time frames we care about? (Read: long-term.)
The only weapon the AMPTP has against us, in the end, is us believing we can’t win — and the overwhelming majority of us, as far as I can tell, are still convinced that we can and will. Whatever news may come out over the next few days, that basic fact remains: Until the day we choose to hand them real bullets to shoot us with, they’re just a bunch of assholes in nice suits trying to look scary.
All they have at their disposal right now is the art of the bluff. And all we have to do to call them on it is be more patient — not even more patient than they themselves are, but merely more patient than their stockholders are.
Which is exactly what the situation would have been for us if the DGA had decided to wait until next summer to negotiate, and what it will be whether the AMPTP decides to stay at the table or walk away again.
None of those things changes the gun they’re under. And only we can fire the gun we’re under. The rest is just theatrics.
Is there any place to catch up on where the issue of separated rights stands, or is likely to go, w/re to the brouhaha of ’07?
I realize that to most it’s pretty far down on the interest list, but man, trying to find any specifics at all is very tough.
Suggestions?
Mike,
Several of the threads here during October delved into separated rights pretty deeply — both in terms of where they stood under the old MBA, and the ways in which the AMPTP was proposing to gut them. But I don’t know if their original proposal in that area is still what’s on the table now, so the information could already be out of date…
Anybody know?
Malcolm, as Pseudonymouse correctly states, the WGA will not be bound by the terms of a DGA contract. But the pervasive effect of pattern bargaining would result in the WGA being forced to negotiate those terms rather than being able to set their own table. This was an important part of the reason for going out in November rather than waiting for the SAG and DGA clocks to run out. While a lot of people, including myself, thought the WGA would wait and have all three guilds out at the same time, this didn’t take into account the history of DGA early negotiations. Had the WGA waited, the DGA still would have done its early negotiations and the other guilds would be looking at an established contract pattern. If the AMPTP really does walk away from the WGA and move instead to the DGA, it will effectively take the WGA out of the driver’s seat as far as establishing the contract parameters for internet usage.
Pseudonymouse, your take is very well-stated. But I must disagree. The AMPTP does not have a gun being held to them by their stockholders to settle. Instead, it’s the reverse. The conglomerates that own the studios and networks are not going to allow the AMPTP to sign a contract that they believe will cause them problems for years into the future. And the AMPTP has many weapons at hand, only some of which have been used at this point. But their biggest weapon, really, is TIME. They have enough resources to outwait everyone. Financially, they can take a much bigger hit and still come out of it. It’s just a horrible PR image for them to deal with as it’s happening – hence the hiring of the new PR firm. As for the WGA, they have two weapons and they’ve used both of them already. One, they’ve effectively stopped work across Hollywood. Two, they’ve been able to use the current TV season and pilot season as leverage. Once that leverage is gone (by mid-February), the rules change. But the AMPTP will still have time on their side.
Patrick, I agree with you that a fair contract being achieved soon would be a wonderful thing. I’d be the first person to throw my hat in the air when that happens. And who knows? It could suddenly come to pass. But there really hasn’t been any indication that this is in the offing. Both sides seem to be waiting for the other side to blink. They’re being more reasonable about it and they’re sitting at a table talking about it, but the brinksmanship card is still being played in a big way.
If the strike does go into February and therefore all the way to July, the landscape will be very different. And Patrick, if the strike were to somehow go on for a year or more, I don’t think you’d need to worry about returning to “Family Guy” at that point. You’d be on to another career in another business, as will most of us.
I can’t articulate this like Craig or Ted, but here goes:
The DVD formula dates back to a 1985 deal, when home video was largely ruled by VHS tapes and hadn’t (obviously) become what it is today. Writers were to get 1.5% of the studio’s gross, and that subsequently became (by thrust of the studios) 1.5% of 20% of the studio’s gross. (Tapes were expensive to produce, and, as I understand it, split at about 80% cost and 20% profit. DVDs, which quickly took over, are by contrast a joke — they cost little to make and bring in a relative fortune. Cue the future/internet…) The current VHS/DVD formula is, therefore, 1.5% of 20% of the studio’s gross; that equals 0.3% of the studio’s gross. (To be more accurate, I believe this applies when the studio’s gross on a DVD is below a certain threshold; above that, it kicks up to 1.8% of 20%, or 3.6% of the gross.) The 4 cents comes in when you look at the studio’s receipts on an average $22 DVD. If the studio gets half, the writer pockets about 4 cents.
Somebody please correct, if I completely mangled this.
I still think some people don’t get it.
Pseud – you really are forgetting that a large company can cover its division’s losses. An individual, unless already ridiculously wealthy or has some really rich folks, has no such cover.
Yes, the companies will be harmed (as will all of you…well the ones that were gainfully employed as writers prior to the strike). And, yes, they don’t want to be (nor do you). There is a critical mass, however, where when you have applied the utmost damage, they basically have the same incentive to just wait you out as they do to make a deal. Once they have lost say the rest of this season and most of the first half of next, then you start to get into dangerous territory. You’ve overplayed your hand, so to speak. The AMPTP will be able to say “do we just give them the deal they would have gotten without striking? Or do we just tell them to go f*ck themselves and we open our doors to anyone that wants to work?” Don’t make “should we just break the guild?” a legitimate consideration. Please.
Seriously think about that. Think about how long the big hitters will lose hundred of thousands of dollars (some millions) to protect some future that really isn’t ever going to happen or even if it did and these nets and studios were still around based on some notion that whatever deal you take now is the deal you have to accept forever. And, please, save the militant “we will fight to the death” talk. If you say that, then you aren’t part of the “we” that matters. Trust me.
Oh, as for pattern bargaining complaints, it cuts both ways. The WGA insists in its proposal that in the event the AMPTP gives a better deal to the DGA or SAG, then the WGA has the right to reopen the deal.
I haven’t read all the posts yet, but got to this and wanted to comment, so if it’s superfluous, sorry.
The AMPTP set that bar at VHS. The WGA is negotiating 20 years down the line because it doesn’t believe the formula will change as market develops. History backs them up on this. And the AMPTP has done nothing to assuage this notion.
I think the AMPTP has to be the ones to come up with escalators in the deal. That way, both sides know this isn’t a be all/end all deal.
“some future that really isn’t ever going to happen”
Well, Stooge, that’s what they said about those crazy video cassettes. So some of us disagree.
I just find it curious that if the whole new media is considered so insignificant by the AMPTP, then why fight so hard for it? Why refuse to deal in percentage payments, which I would think would be the most risk adverse (2.5% of nothing is nothing). To me, that is the most telling of why we should be holding out for a piece of our future.
Who care’s what the DGA does – we’ve never really had the same issues. It sucks, makes things hard, but the WGA was well aware of this possibility/ probability from the outset (part of why we struck in November). It’s no surprise.
As a side note, someone in the DGA just told me that the DGA negotiating committee (besides the chair) is completely secret, which I find bizarre. Zero accountability. Is this really the case?
Maybe time will prove that the wga is completely irrelevant in the modern era, but we’ve never gotten any major issue solved without striking. So…
I don’t pretend to have a crystal and am kinda bored by opinions that claim to know the future.
Seriously. Who knows what will happen, but I was completely prepared from the beginning that this could go loooong. This seems par for the course and I’m not freaking out.
Ad just crushed me. This is exactly what my post was trying to say.
girlwriter, you’re absolutely right that none of us knows the future on this. The whole thing could be wrapped up by Christmas. And I really hope it is.
And I don’t know that the strike won’t be settled by February. But I do know the math of how long it will take us to get a new episode on the air after the strike ends. Once you pass mid-February, there’s no way we can air anything before April. And at that point, the season is over, as is the pilot season. So I’m not trying to predict anything there – just relaying the common sense numbers.
To answer your question regarding the DGA, the negotiating committee is not a secret. I know several members who are on it. It’s usually staffed by people who are active on the various boards in the guild, just as it is with WGA and will be with SAG, once they establish one. What the DGA is keeping quiet about is their negotiation strategy. Once talks begin, there will be a complete press blackout until the contract is finalized. (At the AD council meeting this week, this was discussed, and some members expressed amazement that the details of AMPTP/WGA negotiations were being discussed in public. That said, there were also people there with their laptops on, looking at Nikki Finke’s latest “update”.)
Working AD,
Thanks for clarifying. I thought it sounded odd.
This is such an interesting piece. I hope it’s okay to repost it here. Has anyone else read this? What do they think about Elisberg’s question: “Why IS the AMPTP negotiating with the WGA?”
From the Huffington Post, by Bob Elisberg
Negotiations between the Writers Guild and AMPTP have started again, and there is a fascinating situation at play, yet it has gotten little attention.
Look at that sentence again. Actually, I’ll make it easy for you, just re-read the first seven words.
“Negotiations between the Writers Guild and AMPTP…”
It certainly looks normal. No one gives it a second thought. But the entire entertainment industry should. In fact, everyone should.
There is a hugely-important question here.
The AMPTP, you see, is a group of about 350 member film companies. Nine companies at the top, however, drive the whole train.
“Nine companies” is a polite term. Megathorpian multinational corporations is the accurate term. You know, General Electric, Time-Warner, Sony Electronics, News Corp. — otherworldly behemoths, like that. The kind of gargantuan institutional leviathans who, when you refer to “they” (as in “You know what they say” or “How could they do this to us?”) are the “they.”
Here’s the question.
Why is it the AMPTP who is negotiating with the Writers Guild of America???
In fact, why is the AMPTP negotiating with anyone? The Screen Actors Guild, the Directors Guild, any of the 80 industry-wide collective bargaining agreements it handles.
The issue is not that these AMPTP companies are part of multinational corporations…it’s that they are competitors with one another.
Let’s repeat that: the AMPTP is comprised of competitors. And they are negotiating together against labor?? In heaven’s name — why?
Before anyone tries to answer the question, hold off a moment as this is put into a larger perspective.
Imagine the auto industry for a moment.
The AMPTP is like if General Motors, Ford, Daimler-Chrysler, Toyota, Honda and Nissan all got together, decided the terms they would offer employees, and then negotiated as a single body against one isolated division of U.S. auto workers at a time. Divide and conquer. Take it or leave it.
It’s not that it would be massively illegal. It’s that it would be unconscionable. No one in the aghast free world would stand for it. Even Luddites who wished it wasn’t illegal understand why it’s unacceptable.
Or imagine if all the tobacco companies got together. What if they hid research about nicotine, and then…oh, wait, they did. And they all got hauled before Congress.
Competitors are not allowed to negotiate together, to even confer together. It’s called collusion. When baseball owners merely created an “information bank” for offers being made to free agent players, they were fined $280 million. Two competitors cannot talk with one another if there’s just a hint of agreement. Imagine ALL competitors in an industry getting together to set ALL wages and ALL labor conditions.
It doesn’t happen. Anywhere. Not “anywhere in the U.S.” Anywhere in the free world.
Except Hollywood.
Paramount, Fox, Warner Bros., NBC, Disney, CBS, Universal, Sony, MGM…and 341 of their signatory pals all unite to set the pay scale and working conditions for writers. And then for actors. And then directors. And then for all employees in the entertainment industry.
Say what?
Why is it the AMPTP who is negotiating with the Writers Guild of America???
Everyone grasps that it’s wrong for competitors to gang up. Little children understand it’s wrong. (“Mom! Billy and Janey are teaming up against me!” “Now, you kids leave your brother alone. You know it’s not nice.”) Everyone knows it. Embryos know it. Paramecium. Rocks.
And even the AMPTP knows it
On November 14, WGA president Patric Verrone and SAG president Alan Rosenberg went to Washington, D.C. and met with congressional leaders and the FCC to inform them about the difficulties of negotiating with “seven multi-national conglomerates, all supposedly competitors but they all come together to negotiate.”
Two days later, the AMPTP announced it was finally willing to go back to the negotiating table.
This was not a coincidence. There were many reasons the AMPTP went back to the table — but this was not a coincidence.
Two days. There were terrified.
It’s not just the terror of Congress looking into monopoly collusion, but Congressional hearing and lawsuits over the media monopoly stranglehold. Americans have a long-held abhorrence for illegal monopolies.
Why is it the AMPTP who is negotiating with the Writers Guild of America???
In any other world, in any other industry, the writers — and then actors, directors and others — would each negotiate separately with their employer, one at a time: You get a fair contract with one studio, and everyone else either agrees to the same basic deal or falls behind their competitors. It’s the way business works. It’s the way the law works.
Up to now, the entertainment industry has accepted this arrangement. Up to now, they’ve long-become used to heavy-handedness, but they expect fairness, as well. However, when rampant, monopolistic corporate greed passes all decency, at some point they might have to give the arrangement another look.
“They” – this time – is the United States government.
And so it’s up to the AMPTP to decide what’s truly in their best interest. Greed or fairness. What’s at stake for them is arguably their worst nightmare. Because someone in a position to do something may eventually ask a very big question.
Why is the AMPTP negotiating with the Writers Guild of America???
*
Sweet, but maybe some people aren’t in the same situation as you.
And, really, “par for the course”…really?!
At some point, the AMPTP is going to ask that question of itself.
I forgot to mention (this was a question yesterday), I have confirmed that the WGA refuses to allow crediting of internet streaming based residuals against other residuals.
Anyone in the know on the WGA side feel free to confirm.
I believe it’s the relationship to the unions that makes this not collusion, but others might explain better. I know the Alliance of Talent Agents is exempt from collusion charges due to their relationship to the unions (and we’re all technically competitors).
Yeah, par for the course, Given that the last strike went 5 months with an un-unified group.
Not that I WANT it to go that long. But did I expect multinational corps to roll over in 6 weeks? Would be nice, but not really.
Anonymouse, you forgot this last paragraph:
“One semi-caveat here, just to be fair. Because Fair R Us. I’ve subsequently been told that there might be some law that allows for certain collective bargaining by companies.”
Sigh. Leave it to a writer to put a spin.
Stooge, did you hear the Rob Long on line discussion? Very interesting.
http://bloggingheads.tv/video.php?id=479#3043
Damn, you guys are too fast for me.
That’s a shame, if it’s true. I think most WGA members would accept that. And I’m sure Fabiani & Lehane will seize on this issue if they’re really doing the AMPTP flackery now.
But you were the ones that rolled over last time. Right?
The Huffington Post article is an interesting perspective, but I truly doubt that the AMPTP came running back to the negotiations “terrified” of a congressional inquiry.
Given how much money the conglomerates have put into the campaign funds of a lot of these guys, you could be waiting a LONG time to see anything like an inquiry into studio financing.
Ditto a class action lawsuit. It sounds good, but the reality would take years to get anywhere. And this situation, even in the worst case scenario, will be over long before that.
Stooge, the WGA did not “roll over” in 1988. You could definitely say they did in 1985, but that was a whole other matter. In 1988, the guild was actually quite unified up to the end. The only exception was the Writers Coalition, who really didn’t accomplish anything other than to extend the strike. In the end, Brian Walton negotiated the best deal he could, and the strike was finally ended. It certainly wasn’t a rollover or a cave.
There’s some debate, but I’d say the guild caved in 88 (I wasn’t there), but what’s your point? Because previous members pussed out on a neg, current members should take a crappy deal out of the gate?
I disagree.
Guys, if you’ll check the United Hollywood and AMPTP websites, you’ll see that something is brewing right now. I again hope that I’m wrong about the direction they’re going.
Depressing. It just exposes how self-righteous and disingenuous the WGA is and has been. All these concepts not applied within its own organization (that guy MLBPA’s point). It really makes me want to vomit.
Working AD – I’m sorry, but I disagree based on what I read. I know that sounds obnoxious since I wasn’t around at that time and I think you say you were, but that’s just not what I’ve been told. And why is the main rallying cry “strike now and forego money now for later when we can’t every get a piece of it”, if that was the case?
Well, today’s WGA preemptive statement certainly doesn’t bode well. I don’t think they would have put this out without some substantiation of the rumors of the AMPTP’s imminent withdrawal from the talks and plans to spin it the other way.
http://www.wgaeast.org/index.php/articles/1159?wgra=1#wga1159
See what I mean, AD. Girlwriter thinks they caved, so she has to fight now for a theoretical future because it will be too late when that theoretical future happens.
Of course, this presumes that (1) the deal the WGA gets now when that future comes will be better than the deal the WGA would have gotten if you negotiated at that time; and (2) the WGA will actually get what it is it thinks it is getting now.
And where would the WGA get the money to be in such a long lawsuit?
Wow, wait, then all that screaming bloody murder and asking for revenge is…for what?
Stooge, I was around for the 1988 strike, and the history has been rewritten since that time, mostly by people who weren’t even in the business when it happened.
I strongly recommend you read Anne Thompson’s columns from the LA WEEKLY during the summer of 1988, specifically the final two that she wrote during the first weeks of August 1988. That’ll give you a pretty good primer as to where things really were when that strike ended. You could also check the LA Times online stuff regarding the 88 strike, but I found a lot of it to really get tangled. Thompson’s pieces are far more to the point.
Yup. Anyone need a lawyer?
Josh, I believe a lot of the anger has to do with the 1985 strike which lasted only 3 weeks, at the end of which the WGA caved and took the video residual rate they’ve regretted to this day. Any anger over the 1988 strike would simply be over not achieving more after 5 months on the picket line. That strike was ostensibly about one hour episodic residuals structure, although you could argue that the 1988 strike was also about not getting run over like 1985.
Rob Long thinks the actors are going to fold.
Brought a smile to my face. I think they’ll strike regardless of whether the WGA makes a deal. They are just that crazy.
Plenty of people from the 88 strike don’t think they caved and I respect that.
But in hindsight, I’d argue the fi-core group sold out the guild (and themselves).
Stooge, I think you’re alarmingly naive to believe that if there’s no business model for new media now that it will get BETTER in the coming years. Undecruts your so-called pragmatism. That’s kind of adorable really.
Being human, we all have our contradictions, I suppose.
Damn it Stooge, you beat me to it again.
By the way, they are discussing taking from the rich to give to the “poor”.
Again, to me the “poor” writer is the writer that didn’t perform and not because is born on the wrong side of the tracks. There is a difference. He had a chance. He blew it.
Just because I had a shot of whiskey once, it doesn’t make me an alcoholic.
If the Companies carry dead weight, this money has to come from somewhere.
Where do you think?
By the way Working AD, I truly appreciate you. I love to read your posts.
I’m sorry, did you have one in place during your last negotiation? And you can still ask for it NOW?! How is that possible?! No way!
I guess this year, 2007, is the only year in which the WGA can ask for new media. Tick Tick.
REEEEEEEEEE-diculous.
You never want to answer this (no one does): what happens if the deal you END UP WITH (not gonna be “fair” but just the best you could get) turns out to be a shitty deal when the theoretical new media business (and rememeber that we are talking about NO SYNDICATION…because until that time, you all get your repeat residuals and this new media is just a bonus) becomes an absolute windfall to the AMPTP (for whatever reason it’s wildly more profitable than the current model)?
Why tip off your opponent as to what you intend to do?
If you really do plan to walk away from the table, it’s much more effective coming as a surprise. A threat to break off negotiations, when everyone anticipates the break, is not much of a threat.
Either the entire negotiation up to this point has been a sham, a show put on by the studios for PR purposes, or the AMPTP has to stay at the table.
girlwriter —
Just to be clear, there was no “fi core” group. Though some prominent WGA members, including David Milch, THREATENED to go fi core, they didn’t in the end.
I’d like to ask a question to all:
Will the WGA splinter if negotiations break down and this strike goes well into 2008?
I’d really like to know what people think.
Respectfully, no one I know has any confidence in this idea you keep bringing up that the Guild could gain more on new media in a later negotiation. Perhaps you could elaborate on how you see that playing out?
Because if I were on the AMPTP side and three years later writers came to me and said, “We’re not going to accept these numbers on new media that we agreed to in ’07,” I would simply point to the ’07 contract and say, “What are you talking about? We’ve already established that you’ll accept them.”
Odo – are you basing that at all on logic? What PR? Yes, the AMPTP…it’s all them. They struck…they put out vile press releases demonizing the WGA. It’s all them.
I don’t understand how mature, well educated adults can come to these conclusions. Stop wasting your time and go ask tough questions of your leadership, because this childish view of the world is not helping.
sorry to the two of you tried, but I’m still not getting how 4 cents on a DVD can be 1/3 of a cent on a DVD. (I know that it dates back to VHS). Just don’t get which is the right number, and since we made such a big deal out of it in the early days of the strike, I’d love to know.
Anyone else care to try?
DLW – I’ve said this before. If you realize that you always are in a weaker negotiating position (and you are) and the strike is your best weapon (of course, every time you use it and it doesn’t work, its power is lessened), then the only way to truly win one of these fights if it is very clear that there is a lot of money at stake. That is what will keep a guild unified for the long haul and that’s what will get IA, DGA and SAG on your side for the long haul. It’s the difference of saying “you ARE fighting for your future” and “you MAY be fighting for your future.” I think it’s hard to get well paid people motivated for the long haul to risk losing money for a very uncertain future.
How is that different than what they are doing now? Except now they also get to say “look, we are not making more money. Ratings are DOWN. Production costs are UP. Market share is DOWN. Competition is UP. We can’t afford to double your residuals (which is what your proposal would do…and probably more than that) and every other guild’s residual out there.”
Wait, Stooge, just wait. The press releases are coming. Didn’t you hear, they got a genius PR firm.
Unfortunately, we are about to find out.
I’ve read the AMPTP’s press release already. I don’t beleive it to be inflamatory. It’s a response to the WGA’s statement
Not yet. Wait for it.
boymom:
If a DVD retails for $22 on average, and the studios see $11 of that, then .36% (same thing as 1.8% of 20% of 100%) of $11 is approximately 4 cents.
Typo in my earlier post (should be obvious from context): meant to say “0.36%” not “3.6%”
4 cents is the total take on a DVD. 1/3 of a cent is the per-dollar figure.
I think everyone agrees that the WGA’s proposal numbers are negotiable.
But perhaps you’re right and this is just a case of horrifically bad timing. Maybe the WGA is looking to avoid locking into a deal that will see them leave millions on the table ( ala VHS/DVD) at precisely the time that the business actually is disintegrating and that warning isn’t just an AMPTP negotiating ploy as it’s been in the past.
The thing is people don’t necessarily act on what is true, they act on what they believe to be true. And beliefs are shaped by past experience.
I don’t see how you can criticize WGA leadership for failing to convey an honest picture of what’s actually going on when the AMPTP has historically failed to help the Guild develop one.
Because two wrongs don’t make a right.
Seriously, the WGA leadership isn’t supposed to misinforming its members unless they are trying to push them into supporting a strategy that they (leadership) know the membership is harmed by.
I criticize equally. I do not condone misinformation by the AMPTP. Not only for ethical reasons, but because I think it does more harm than good. Case in point, see what’s happening now. You don’t trust a word out of their mouth when they are finally telling the truth. And I believe the AMPTP is working to correct its past mistakes.
Well said. Folks, this is your livelihood. Shape your beliefs on current and accurate information. If there is a means for you to talk to a NegComm member, study up…actually read the WGA’s MBA and each side’s proposals and then approach that member with your questions.
Girlwriter thinks gamesmanship is just part of this. I think it’s a huge waste of time and probably harmful…for both sides. Demand egos and ulterior motives be put aside. This is YOUR livelihood…don’t let David Young try and prove a point on your sweat and blood.
This is from the AMPTP’s statement:
“The WGA’s organizers refused repeated requests by the producers to begin negotiations much earlier, in the spring of 2007. Had negotiations begun when the producers wanted them to start, perhaps the industry would not now be in the midst of this strike.” It’s exactly what the head of IATSE said at the start of the strike.
At some point, the writers need to be accountable for their actions in pursuing this strategy.
When they started negotiations, the AMPTP came up with a nuclear blast of tying residuals to profitability. Do you have evidence that starting negotiations earlier would have prevented that? The proposal didn’t come off the table until the last instant. To my mind, earlier negotiations would have lead to the exact same space, but the town would be more tired now of hearing about it.
Brian,
The AMPTP’s offer was no less of a “first offer” than the WGA’s. Each overreached.
I don’t think it’s inherently disingenuous either to ask that the WGA accept the concept of only earning money if the studio earns money.
I think everyone needs to be accountable.
I think the WGA pursued the late talks strategy because they believed it was the only way to have any leverage. This may have been incorrect but, again, it was a belief gained from past failures to secure what the membership asked for.
None of this criticism, however, helps in making a deal right now.
I also disagree with your accusation of Guild leadership deliberately misleading members.
I think there are earnest, honorable people on the NegCom who genuinely believe what they are conveying.
There doesn’t appear to be one mutually accepted, absolute truth about much of anything at the moment so a variation in interpretation is to be expected.
And I would argue the opposite. Did the AMPTP not have about a year’s notice that not only did the WGA want some form of compensation from new media, but also DGA and SAG? Instead of dealing with that issue, they tried to deflect it with a proposal that attacks the current structure of residuals. It was a classic case of trying to get the union to fight to regain what it lost under the AMPTP proposal, rather than come up with ANY type of new media residual (even a bad one).
But then there’s that pesky accounting problem.
Hey, dude. I didn’t MAKE the negotiating rules, just acknowleging them. The sky is blue and that ain’t gonna change.
Again, I’ve talked to lots of folks (moderate) on the WGA NegComm – David Young is not the singular voice (let’s chill with that incorrect fact) proving a point on my sweat and blood. I am not a victim. Don’t assume I am.
What is remotely inflammatory about the WGA email to members? To sum up, “we hear rumors that the AMPTP is going to walk away. We challenge them stay at the table and keep negotiating as we want to.”
If the rumor is wrong, the Amptp stays at the table. If they walk, how do you possibly defend that? How do you say that’s someone who wants to make a deal?
And, respectfully, I find your explanation of why the wga should wait on new media incoherant. SAG and WGA are already united b/c we have the same issues. The other unions, not so much – they wouldn’t strike all together. Ever.
Never mind, three more years pass with them earning ad revenue on “promotional” use. If that doesn’t set up bad faith with talent, I don’t know what does.
DLW –
I think so too. Robert King seems to be one of them (though I question why he uses the word “management”). I don’t think they are the voices being heard. Or maybe they are being mollified with “trust us…these games will all work for us.”
Girlwriter –
Nothing and I didn’t say that statement was.
DLW –
Right. But again, not in and of itself disingenuous. And none of us should pretend that such a thing as “audit rights” don’t exist or are effective. I wouldn’t take a share of “profits” either and I’ve said that. But the concept is reasonable.
Brian – I really only present that quote to say that the WGA is complicit. It’s not to say that ONLY the WGA is at fault. You know I don’t feel that way.
Watch your pronouns, Girlwriter. Who is “them” again?
I don’t believe that either of us know how unified the WGA is much less the WGA with SAG.
Aren’t actors working right now?
I think it’s a pretty straightforward concept: the more important the cause (and the more real) the more people are willing to fight for it.
I guess we will see who is right, unfortunately. But if I were a betting man (and I very much am), I’d be putting all my money on the house.
For all the speculation about TV seasons and comparisons to ’88, I believe there’ll be many unforeseen consequences to a long strike, potentially destructive to both sides. I see the Guild as being very unified and not particularly passive in the event this comes to Armageddon. I expect the reports of the AMPTP’s resolve to fight hard and nasty are also fairly accurate.
Which is why a reasonable deal now is far preferable. (notice I didn’t say fair.)
However, hubris and reason tend to be mutually exclusive and it appears there is more of the former than the latter at play in these negotiations. Too bad.
DLW – Again, well said. There’s clearly a deal here to be made and I’m afraid it wont be because of what you just said (again…I point my finger at both sides).
Here’s an audit story. I was talking to a client who is in one of those NFL package ads for DirectTv with Ron Dean. He hasn’t been paid any residuals. His commercial agent called the ad agency. Now, I pause in this story to point out I’ve seen the commercial several times on different channels. The response from the ad agency was, they’ve never used the commercial.
SAG has a no strike clause. But sure time will tell, when their contract’s up.
But our leadership and theirs have been working/ planning in concert for over a year.
If there is a deal to be made it’s going to be when the gamesmanship is finally put to rest.
Back channel rumors saying, “We’re going to make a last and final offer and then walk away,” sure sounds like gamesmanship to me.
It should be clear by now that neither side is going to succumb to fear mongering and intimidation. How about using all that energy to actually crunch the numbers and come up with a deal that everyone can live with?
Brain – Funny (well…in a sad way).
That sounds more like an outright BS problem than an accounting issue. We are talking more along the lines of the Peter Jackson v. New Line case.
No one is claiming that the studios aren’t allowing the networks to stream. Just that they get no money from it.
Someone ask the WGA is they will take a % of the studio’s revenue? Not the network’s…the studio’s.
The informational picket and rally outside Freemantle’s Burbank offices today was quite a rousing event. The turnout didn’t seem huge, but it’s hard to tell when you’re in the middle of it. Verrone assured reality writers that bringing them into the fold has never been off the table. Tenacious D gave a hilarious performance of a few songs tailored to the event; speakers included Paul Haggis; Kai Bowe, one of the fired “America’s Next Top Model” writers; Aaron Solomon, one of the producers who walked off Freemantle’s “Temptation,” Anne-Marie Johnson, actress and former SAG V.P., and the great Alfre Woodard, who capped the event nicely with a passionate, funny and inspiring speech. I’m a writer, but not in the guild yet. Thankfully, this event was held right across the street from my work, so I could finally come out and show my support (it coincided nicely with my lunch break).
Reality? How is this even still a discussion?
What’s so frustrating about this grab for reality jurisdiction is that (1) what self respecting writer would want to claim ownership of any of that; and (2) its simply strategic so that the WGA doesn’t have to worry about the nets just using reality during a strike (it’s insincere).
I also think you guys should kill the special performances. This isn’t a freaking concert. It’s a strike. If you need an extra draw, then so much for all the gung-ho talk and the unity.
I bet, like with the WGA, removal of the no-strike clause will be paramount…when pigs fly.
If it’s so darn important…screw the no-strike clause! Right?
Today on the radio, Fred Willard (boy, is he funny!) said the directors won’t go on strike because they’re all working, and that the writers are on strike because it’s all the stupid writers who aren’t working who voted for it.
How insensitive they are to the hard-working people who’ve been hurt by the strike!
Ok, since no one else wants to say it:
The fracture will happen.
The DGA is going to make their deal.
We will have to follow suit or wait for SAG.
SAG is going to accept the producers deal. If you think otherwise, look back to SAG’s negotiating history. A pathetic, ineffectual union, to say the least.
But it won’t get that far. We won’t make it that far.
Because if you think OUR PR’s been great, wait to you see what’s coming up from the AMPTP.
Well, I wouldn’t get too worried about Chris Lehane. He’s one of these political ops who is mostly famous for working for losing campaigns– Gray Davis during the recall, Kerry, Wes Clark.
That said, if the WGA NegComm has really turned town a proposal to credit internet residuals against broadcast residuals as Stoogie reports, that’s going to get seized on to suggest that the WGA is making an opportunistic grab at a raise rather than fighting to ensure the continuation of residuals. (Robert King, if you are reading, or anyone else on the NegComm, I would love to hear anything about this issue you can divulge.)
I’ve probably said it a million times before…this pre-emptive strike (pre-emptive because you are striking to protect against a future event that may or may not happen) and the pre-emptive strike on Iraq bear an amazing resemblance.
The rhetoric is almost identical.
The reasoning almost identical.
I wonder if the result will be too.
Clifford – not just turned it down…wont discuss the concept period. That’s what I’m told.
As for Lehane, I agree with you. The PR only matters if the message is reasonable, measured and, most of all, TRUE. Because all that it is useful for is educating and, maybe, setting a proper tone (i.e., not come off like an ass). No one is going to ever care or feel sorry for corporations, nor should they.
I have been reading in silence for the last couple weeks, checking in daily, and finally have the speak up to say one thing. Not to get personal, but I have come to feel the most pressing reason I have for the strike to end soon is so Stooge has somewhere else to go to vent his spleen which, I have come to understand, he thinks passes for must-share wisdom. My God, the AMPTP must be paying him by the word for all his blathering. Craig might as well call his site the Artful Stooge and get it over with. Please Stooge, start your own site and spare us your never-ending insight here…
Stooge:
No one thinks this industry is more hidebound than I do. But even I can see that things are going to change. They are changing. To qualify what will happen in new media as only a possibility is to stick your head in the sand like the music industry did.
You want to argue that the future isn’t going to come as predicted, you might have a point. But the internet is going to change everything and there needs to be groundwork set.
Any comparison of this work stoppage to the war in Iraq is offensive and inflammatory (regardless of who says it). I would kindly request that nobody do that again, please.
whoever said the truth shall set you free? you find it offensive because you know its true. it probably makes you sick that a neocon’s mantra is the one you are using to support your position, but the reality is you are. i find it offensive that im supposed to just swallow your rhetoric. if i question it, am i with you or against you? maybe you guys can get the “mission accomplished” banner for WGA HQ when this is all over.
thats it azkid stifle speech! which republican are you voting for?
Josh, belatedly thank you.
Stooge, belatedly thank you.
Brian, I agree with you – I have a stepbrother who just got sent back there with a bad shoulder. I understand analogies but I’d really rather not go there.
No, it’s offensive because you are comparing people walking a picket line to people dying.
If that is okay with you, fine. Say so and I will stop talking to you and I will ignore your posts.
While the AMPTP and the WGA are fighting to get a piece of the future that doesn’t exist, Curly, Larry and Moe — all guys south of 25 — will take over the world.
The fat cow will die. No more big jugs of milk anymore.
Oh well. It was good while it lasted.
Patrick Meighan:
Based on our pattern of demands and our judgment of last Thursday’s offer regarding minimums for made-for-internet content as a “rollback” by comparing it to network broadcast minimums, yeah, we are.
I allow that you may have inside information that I don’t, however.
Mike Tully:
As of October 25, the AMPTP’s proposal regarding separated rights in theatrical amount to, extending the Company’s period of control over the dramatic (ie, stage) rights for two years, and excluding any type of theme park attraction that includes live performances in their entirety. I’m not familiar enough with television separated rights to know for certain, but it seems to be even more of a rollback than the theatrical one. You can find a copy of the AMPTP’s proposal on both their website (amptp.org) and the Guild’s (wga.org).
Psuedonymouse:
You sound like you have a very clear definition of what an AMPTP offer must entail in order to constitute a “win.” What terms are you looking for?
Anonymouse:
I think the entire article is grossly uninformed.
Working AD:
Are those article available on-line someplace? I’ve read most of the LA Times and NY Times coverage of the ’88 strike (as well as the ’60, ’73, ’81 and ’85 strikes), and I found a pretty good overview from the Daily News of Los Angeles, but I haven’t been able to find those.
BTW — I agree with your assessment that history has been rewritten. Which means, of course, that whatever lessons we’ve learned from history, we’ve learned from a fiction we’ve constructed, rather than what in fact actually happened.
(I find there’s a lot of Guild members who conflate the ’85 negotiation and the ’88 negotiation, for instance).
AMPTP Stooge:
If you’re talking about the AMPTP’s “Setting the record straight,” c’mon. Throughout, they referred to Patric and Michael’s letter to the Guild membership as the “WGA Organizer Statement.” What do you think the intention of that is?
DLW:
The “Take My Study … Please” q&a on the wga.org website says that the AMPTP proposed that for the duration of the study, the Companies will pay nothing for internet reuse. What is that, other than deliberately misleading?
Both sides are spinning furiously, and it would be mistake to consider either as an unimpeachable source of information.
Oh dear: I am gone for two days, and now these things occur.
You know, when I was younger one of my favored sereis was the Canadian-American Nickelodeon production of the anthology compilation “Are You Afraid Of the Dark?” I can remember one installment about these two male friends who accidentaly brake a neighbor’s vase, then make it up to her by cleaning her yard. As a reward, they recieve a monkey’s paw that grants them anything they want.
Needless to say, they use it, each time shocked after the granted wish. While these wishes are granted, numerous problems take root: including destruction of one of the friend’s parents and other things. They seem rather blase about this, until one of them wishes for his grandfather to appear, saying “he’d know what to do.”
Well, that wish is granted; only, the other friend reminds his friend that his grandfather died a year before. Immediately, his car shows up; and though you never see him, he comes toward the door. At this point, and only at this point, the two friends are in full panic; as in, scared of what they have wrought.
We never know why this panic sets in, in part because one of them catches the paw and wishes none of what happened did happen. Thus, the grandfather and the car are now gone, and everything appears to be sane.
In this dispute, you, the writers, and your perceived mogul employees have been rather blase regarding the financial and PR implications. Basically, you are now saying you want your grandfather of sorts to set things right. Well, who are they?
Steven Spielberg (Dreamworks SKG, Amblin Entertainment) Jeffrey Katzenberg (Dreamworks SKG) David Geffen (Dreamworks SKG) The Scott Brothers; Sir Ridley and Tony (Scott Free) Robert Zemeckis (ImageMovers Digital) John Lassseter (Pixar) Steven Soderbergh (Section Eight) George Clooney (Section Eight) Mel Gibson (Icon Productions) The Coen Brothers; Joel and Ethan (Mike Zoos Productions) Ron Howard (Imagine Entertainment) Brian Grazer (Imagine Entertainment) Rob Reiner (Castle Rock) Alan Horn (Castle Rock) Brad Pitt (Plan B) Bob Yari (Yari Film Group) M. Night Shymalan (Blinding Edge Pictures) Wendy Finerman and Steve Starkey (Shangri-La Entertainment) Clint Eastwood (Malpaso) Robert Redford (Wildwood Enterprises, Sundance Channel) J.J. Abrams (Bad Robot) Damon Lindelof (Bad Robot) Ed Zwick (Bedford Falls) Marshall Herskovitz (Bedford Falls) Lorne Michaels (Broadway Video, SNL Studios) Julia Roberts (Red Om Films) Tom Hanks (Play-Tone) Scott Rudin (own production company name) David Mamet (Bay Kinescope) Mel Brooks (Brooksfilm) George Lucas (Lucasfilm Ltd.) Quentin Tarantino (A Band Apart) Robert Rodriguez (Troublemaker Studios) Nicolas Cage (Saturn Films) Tom Cruise (Cruise-Wagner Productions, United Artists) Paula Wagner (Cruise-Wagner Productions) Brad Grey (own television company name) Bill Maher (own televison company name) Jay Leno (Big Dog Productions) David Letterman (Worldwide Pants) Judd Apatow (Apatow Productions) Richard Kelly (Darko Films) Paul Newman and Joanne Woodward (Newman’s Own, multi-forms) Kiefer Sutherland, Robert Cochran, Joel Surnow, et al. (Real Time Productions) Drew Barrymore (Flower Films) Dick Wolf (Wolf Films) Steven Bochco (own production company name) David E. Kelley (own production company name) James L. Brooks (Gracie Films) Danny Devito (Jersey Films) Robert DeNiro (TriBeca) Jane Rosenthal (TriBeca) Will Smith (Overbrook) Spike Lee (40 Acres and A Mule Filmworks) Bud Yorkin and Norman Lear (Tandem Archives) Michael Moore (Dog Eat Dog Films) Bob and Harvey Weinstein (The Weinstien Company, Dimension Flms, Genius Products) Wim Wenders (Original Film, among other leaders) Joel Silver (Silver Pictures) Jerry Bruckheimer (own film company name) Shawn Ryan (Midd Kidd Productions) Bryan Singer (Bad Hat Harry Productions) Martin Scorsese (numerous independent ventures, plus interest in multi-media forms) Francis Ford Coppola (American Zoetrope) Duncan Kenworthy, Mike Newell, et al. (Working Title) Monty Python living alumni (e.g., Fish Productions from John Cleese) Bill Cosby (independent ventures) Kevin Costner (Tig Productions) Bruce Willis (Equity Ventures) Richard and Laura Schuler-Donner (The Donners’ Company) Peter Gabriel (RealWorld, music namely) Cameron Crowe (Vinyl Films) Numerous estates of past filmmakers (Orson Welles, Stanley Kunrick, Robert Altman, etc.) Simon Cowell and Simon Fuller (19 Entertainment) The Henson Family (Jim Henson Productions) Michael Eisner (the Walt Disney Company, independent ventures) Saul Zaentz (own company name) Peter Jackson (Wingnut Films) Joss Whedon (Mutant Enemy) Chris Carter (Ten Thirteen Productions) Mark Cuban (2929 Entertainment) Jerry Weintraub (own production company name) Adam Sandler (Happy Madison) The folks at Bungie
Well, I can name others, but you get my drift. These people have businesses that act mainly as production companies. Quite a number of them, like Dreamworks and Icon, even finance and distribute the films they make. And in all fairness, you do not start the party without them.
Since they have these businesses, they are now at least privately pissed off at both sides of this dispute. Yet, it is the side of the writers that draws the immediate ire of these people.
In this form, they are akin to the grandfather that comes at a time when all things are in the crapper. Beleive me: They will end this dispute and future disputes to come if you do not. Do remember my analogy, which one poster said was the Denny’s approach (although, why Denny’s?)
Change is in the wind. The change however is going to be one of more individualistic ideals. I mean to say that we see this with the Rep. Ron Paul campaign of individual liberty; a concept I understand yet do not support (I am a Democrat for Sen. Hillary Clinton.) Yet, the public at hand wants this, and rest assured they will vote for this next year.
Those that I have listed have managed to become autonomous within the industry. I suggest you writers whom are not involved yet get businesses together with your own creative autonomy. If not, expect your problems to be solved (and rightly so, if need be) by the individuals listed in this post. Their unofficial motto is “I got Mine. The hell with yours.” In the end, you do not start the party without them.
In a Joyful and Festive Mood nonetheless,
Lax24 aka Laxd15
Okay, the posts have now changed to black print on white. It happened right after Ted’s post again. That makes three times in a row the look of the page changed in IE. Are you doing something different than the rest of us, Ted? Cause I think you’re accidentally causing this.
Brian:
Right after Ted’s post was another one of Lax24′s ominous manifestos, and if ANYBODY could cause your screen to go black, that’s where my money lies. Though not by accident…
It’s called floating a trial balloon. See what the other side does, see how the public reacts. The WGA countered effectively with their statement, pointing out that if the AMPTP leaves the table, it won’t be because of stalling by the WGA and it will indeed undercut the AMPTP’s efforts to look like a reasonable party committed to making a deal.
I agree with you — the strike will end faster if the two sides focus more on putting numbers on the table and less on putting rumors on the street.
Well, talks just broke down again. This moderate is going to go drink a moderate amount of bourbon. And there will be a strictly-observed blackout, if you know what I mean. Craig, if there is still cause for cautious optimism, please let us know.
I just read end of day statement from the AMPTP. Does this mean that talks are not continuing next week? Are they really accusing the WGA of not negotiating – AGAIN?
Well, it sounds like they are now accusing the WGA of trying to negotiate on the wrong issues.
Lax24, is your compulsion to offer jeremiads tied to your Asperger’s Syndrome? Does something about the writers being on strike cause a disruption in the orderliness you wish the world would display? It’s odd that it pains you so much, given that you admit that it doesn’t really affect you directly.
I was holding out with hope that all involved would have a joyful holiday knowing that work would resume in January. Looks like everyone may be getting a stocking full of coal this year.
Yes, it means that talks are not continuing next week. The repeated use of the term “WGA organizers” rather than “WGA negotiators” is a ploy to get the rank and file of the Guild to believe that the paramount interest of the Guild leadership is expanding jurisdiction to reality and animation, and that this is what’s preventing an agreement.
Unless someone on the WGA negotiating committee admits that, yes, the demand for control over reality and animation is non-negotiable, I’m thinking that’s just a smokescreen by the AMPTP. They never laid out their complete proposal and showed how they came up with their $130 million additional compensation figure.
So the billion-dollar question is, what will have to happen for negotiations to restart?
Stuart, there are things in this life that are not essential.
However, nearly all things have an indirect affect on all people. For example, it now appears that the tactics of the current WGA leadership under the tutelage of Donald Rumsfeld, I mean David Young, have caused the moguls and by extension those people I listed and others not listed to state in all fairness “sod off. We’re dealing with the DGA now. Then SAG. You get what they get, ingrates.”
With this in mind, and a planned campaign of fighting and partying and slacking, not to mention a rather laughable attempt at lawsuits and investigations, things need to be done. The public, that populace you in general think supports the effort, will and has turned against you.
Basically, they are drenched in their television, and have the capacity to be angered over things taken away from them. As well, with that liberterian bent I mentioned, they have now begun to say, in a manner Trey Parker and Matt Stone parodied, “they took our shows!” And we all know how people feel regarding their entitlements, especially when the public states “we pay for your jobs.”
In a matter of speaking, they do. Television is run by advertisements, and sponsors help to pay for the cost of a program. Their money comes from people who buy their stuff. It is just not as blatant as it was in the “Golden Age”, when you had the Texaco Star Theater, or Colgate Comedy Hour.
With the programming gone, and certain films in limbo, the public will be pissed off, targeting the instigators. Which means, though you do not want to admit this, is the writers in this dispute; particulary, the hardliners. And, as I mentioned, this will bring more people to the rather individual liberty ideal that has gathered a major Internet and social population.
This pains me, so to speak, because I am seeing childish behavior on the part of grown adults that should not be publicized. I would, indeed, expect this type of behavior at a Denny’s, but not in a multi-trillion conglomerate syndicate entity. We are seeing 40 and 50 and 60 year olds acting like they are still in school. I could never get away with that behavior. Why then should those with money and ego do it differently? It is not right.
So now, one side of this dispute has decided to become adults, and it is not the side you think it is. You got served a deal of not much nourishment in this strike you are having. You could have done things differently, but instead chose the path of the September Twelththers; you know whom they are, and I know too.
Now that Christmas/Hanukah/Ramadan is coming, what do you say to your children, if you have any? How do you rationalise your behavior as right, and the children’s behavior as wrong? How do you explain to them that they are not getting much of anything this year? These are all questions to ponder aloud: for your children will one day become, if left unchecked, you. We all know how that feels from the writings of Harry Chapin and others.
In concern for you and yours in this time,
Lax24 aka Laxd15
Ted, did you come to this thoughtful conclusion all by yourself or after convening with the Vulcan High Council?
Kidding!
I’d sure like to know why you think it’s so uniformed. I think it’s a very valid question, and one that we very well may be confronting if this strike drags on for months and months.
Do you honestly believe the AMPTP is not attempting to permanently weaken or even break the WGA?
Ted, you can find all the old LA WEEKLY issues on microfiche at the Los Angeles Public Library. There is no online cache of them anywhere that I know of. (In the past, I have used this microfiche as a resource, but for the stories I have referenced, I still have the articles. I hung onto them as a reminder of what happened the last time in case I ever encountered an attempt to rewrite the history.)
Based on the statements I have just read from both sides, it sounds like Mark Evanier was right again. He called this two weeks ago, figuring that there would be at least one more public blow-up before serious negotiations happened.
The next step is the tricky one. I strongly believe that the AMPTP is going to ask the DGA to begin negotiations immediately.
I don’t know if it’s still possible, but I hope there’s a way to salvage these talks somehow before we get into the protracted DGA negotiations that are coming.
This was the bad news I was expecting, but it doesn’t feel any better to have actually received them. I will be at the Strike a Deal Rally on Sunday as a result, asking that both parties please put aside all the anger and work out a deal before thousands of below the line crew, as well as writers, directors and actors, are put into the position of having to permanently leave the business.
As a sidenote, Josh Olsen just posted a note saying he was banned from here for criticizing me for supporting Strike a Deal. He then went on to refer to the people who post here in some unfortunate terms, although not the same name he called me when I asked him to stop. I bear no ill will against the man, but he seems to bear a lot against this site. I think the guy’s a talented writer, but I wish the personal attack thing would stop.
The only thing I can think of is the AMPTP knows they can start negotiating immediately with DGA. Otherwise, I cannot understand this new position.
BTW, Stooge, toldja so on the press release.
Working AD, are you planning on attending the rally? I’m not sure if I will. I know that even bringing it up on this site is suicide, but my thought is that the WGA can use the SAD rally to their benefit instead of railing against it. If there is a strong force of WGA out there on Sunday, it will put the ball in the court of the AMPTP who have walked out of negotiations. I, unlike some of this forum, do not think that this rally has to undermine the strike. After all, WGA members should want a deal to happen – and sooner than later. Attending the rally would also openly demonstrate to BTL that they do feel badly about so many being out of work. I am amazed by the animosity of the writers who post on the SAD website.
After what has been happening, I really don’t have any choice but to be at that rally. And I hope there will be WGA members there to talk to the crews and vendors. When this was mentioned at the DGA on Wednesday, the people who brought it up were very specific in saying that the rally is NOT an anti-writers’ guild event. It is a plea from those of us considered collateral damage and otherwise have no voice in the matter.
As part of the collateral damage myself, I see no point in this rally.
Something behind the scenes happened that radically changed the course of the negotiations (and, no, I don’t know what). All the rally does is say “look at us.” Join the WGA picket line and the writer’s will do exactly that. If the AMPTP cared, they wouldn’t have just gone nuclear.
I was already planning to go Monday. I’m returning to the Paramount Gate for the later shift. Maybe I’ll see some of you folks there.
I see your point, Brian, but it looks like this sould be a long work stoppage. It would be goof PR for WGA members to go and show, support if nothing else.
According to Mr. Verrone, there is no deal without the reality jurisdiction. He said precisely that at todays rally. I was there.
Well, so much for only the Shadow knowing…
That would be a HUGE mistake on his part if he thought that.
And here I didn’t think I could get more depressed.
And, Natalie, if what Lamont says is true, the WGA don’t give a damn about us collateral damage either.
I’m going to go find out how much alcohol this body can take before I pass out now.
Wow, sorry guys. Guess I shouldn’t type with boxing gloves on…
Why does the WGA feel that they need to get EVERYTHING that they ask for NOW? I understand the residuals are important. Can’t organizing other genres wait? It is like going to your boss for a raise and then asking for a company car and Fridays off too.
Lamont, that’s incredible.
Was anyone else there? Can anyone confirm that Patric said this?
This strike will not end as long as the AMPTP has their heads up their collective Stooge asses. It ain’t the WGA who wants to f around and around and around – if you can’t see that then too damn bad – wake up, grow up, and stop kicking the dog and kick the “master” if you want to get back to the show. Read it and weep…
AMPTP BREAKS OFF NEGOTIATIONS
Today, after three days of discussions, the AMPTP came back to us with a proposal that included a total rejection of our proposal on Internet streaming of December 3.
They are holding to their offer of a $250 fixed residual for unlimited one year streaming after a six-week window of free use. They still insist on the DVD rate for Internet downloads.
They refuse to cover original material made for new media.
This offer was accompanied by an ultimatum: the AMPTP demands we give up several of our proposals, including Fair Market Value (our protection against vertical integration and self-dealing), animation, reality, and, most crucially, any proposal that uses distributor’s gross as a basis for residuals. This would require us to concede most of our Internet proposal as a precondition for continued bargaining. The AMPTP insists we let them do to the Internet what they did to home video.
We received a similar ultimatum through back channels prior to the discussions of November 4. At that time, we were assured that if we took DVD’s off the table, we would get a fair offer on new media issues. That offer never materialized.
We reject the idea of an ultimatum. Although a number of items we have on the table are negotiable, we cannot be forced to bargain with ourselves. The AMPTP has many proposals on the table that are unacceptable to writers, but we have never delivered ultimatums.
As we prepared our counter-offer, at 6:05 p.m., Nick Counter came and said to us, in the mediator’s presence: “We are leaving. When you write us a letter saying you will take all these items off the table, we will reschedule negotiations with you.” Within minutes, the AMPTP had posted a lengthy statement announcing the breakdown of negotiations.
We remain ready and willing to negotiate, no matter how intransigent our bargaining partners are, because the stakes are simply too high. We were prepared to counter their proposal tonight, and when any of them are ready to return to the table, we’re here, ready to make a fair deal.
John F. Bowman Chairman, WGA Negotiating Committee Contract 2007
Working AD,
You realize, of course, that the AMPTP put the WGA to an ultimatum today. Right? And here’s the thing — the WGA negcom NEVER LEFT THE FUCKING TABLE.
The AMPTP walked out on them.
What more, short of total capitulation, could the WGA do to satisfy you that they are working very hard and putting aside their anger in order to work out a deal?
Seriously, with a blog like this, the AMPTP doesn’t need to hire spin-doctors.
They’re not asking for everything. If they were, reintroducing the dvd increase would be a great start.
The WGA is (say it with me now!) negotiating. You start high, the other side starts low, you meet in the middle. Tada!
The fuck-turds in the AMPTP are now issuing ultimatums to the WGA. They are the ones who pushed away from the table in what, apparently, was a carefully orchestrated, pre-determined move. Call it whatever you want, but that is most certainly NOT negotating.
The account from in the room had David Young walking out and slamming the door behind him. Afterwards, Nick Counter messengered him a letter telling him to send a letter back when he was ready to negotiate again.
Looks to me that AMPTP intended to walk out, particularly after the way things had been going over the last week. No way that press release was suddenly created. They put that together yesterday, after the WGA had given them enough examples to cite as an excuse to break off.
If the AMPTP is following the track I think they are, they’ll reach out to DGA to start negotiations next week, possibly as early as Tuesday. This would fit in their PR approach of trying to “get everyone back to work.” The thing to this is that they still won’t be able to talk to SAG, since they won’t even have their NegComm selected until March. But if the DGA talks go long, and I think they will this time, it may take until March to have a new DGA contract to build the others from. Given the choice, I think the AMPTP will talk to SAG after the DGA before getting back to the WGA. That is, unless the WGA starts dropping some of its terms. I also believe that the AMPTP has been out to “teach a lesson” to Young, Verrone and Bowman ever since the strike started. Unfortunately, it looks like the lesson is being taught to everyone else in the business instead.
BTW Brian, I agree with you that the point of the Strike A Deal Rally is to say “Look at us!” And that’s why I’m going. If enough people appear, the idea is for BOTH sides to realize they’re playing with EVERYBODY and not just with the people they don’t like on the other side of the table.
bullshit
For crissakes, Anonymouse, I think it has been clear the Working AD sides with the WGA. Is it possible that someone may pose a question or opinion on here without you questioning loyalties? I think that if the collateral damage of this strike believes that the WGA is holding onto stupid demands, the public opinion may waver. Now, you probably don’t care, but I’m sure the studios would love for the public to think that the WGA is why people can’t pay their mortgage. It isn’t true, but that isn’t the point.
And maybe Counter just bumped into Tom Short on the way out of the hotel after he’d just spontaneously jotted his own thoughts down on a cocktail napkin?
Anonymouse, I am not asking for total capitulation by the WGA. I think they have a right to a fair contract.
But we still haven’t gotten to the part where things actually get negotiated. Both sides have instead presented the beginnings of what could eventually become a contract but neither side has really given any ground yet.
If I were to believe everything I read on United Hollywood and on Nikki Finke’s gossip column, I’d be forced to believe that the AMPTP are somehow deliberately sabotaging everything so they can break the guild and ruin the business. But that would only be telling one side of the story, as compelling of a side as that may be.
I think Tom Short saw the writing on the wall and did his thing on his own. His anger at Verrone and Young is well known. And it’s not like he has much else going on right now.
azkid, what do you disagree with? If it’s the account of David Young walking out, do you have a differing account? The facts still line up with what both parties are saying happened. And it’s still clear that the AMPTP stopped the talks.
How unbelievably insulting you are!
You honestly think the writers out there on the lines, the WGA negcom and all the other writers with something to lose in this DON’T already realize how much is on the line? You think they don’t already realize how much everyone is being hurt in this? You think they don’t care?
The WGA is made up of living breathing people, Working AD. The AMPTP is made up of corporations, who don’t give an ass-fucking-sandwich about you, your friends, or your mortgages.
If you and your buddies in Strike A Deal just want the WGA to fall to its knees and start sucking corporate cock for the sake of your Christmas, then why don’t you just say so? I’d have more respect for you if you did.
I’m so tired of people equating the WGA with the AMPTP, as if the two sides are equally matched.
We are fighting a faceless, remorseless, relentless, sociopathic Goliath that would just as soon replace us with on-air hamster-wrestling 24/7 if they thought it would earn a dollar.
I can assure you that THIS side realizes what’s at stake, and THIS side isn’t “playing” at anything. We’re fighting for our goddamn futures, and for yours.
The only thing the AMPTP top honchos think less of than writers – is everyone else. Stooge – replaceable. There is always another fresh faced lawyer they can suck dry and toss. Working AD – a glorified traffic cop. Grips, gaffers, drivers, locations scouts, make up, wardrobe, art department – you have got to be kidding. They only care about themselves and their close circle of A Player Pals – no one else matters – and if we go down in flames, look over your shoulder cause you are NEXT!
As opposed to getting your information from where — up Nick Counter’s ass?
I don’t think anyone here is suggesting that you bend over and take one for the team. We all understand that the AMPTP are the assholes. We do. But there are plenty who don’t. And they will be at the SAD rally or hearing about the SAD rally (and I bet you it will get more media coverage than the solidarity rally), so it would be a great place for the WGA to educate people on what is really going on.
And yes, we understand you are fighting for our futures, but we are out of work too. We are “fighting” just as hard without a say in it. The martyr statements really get so tiresome.Whatever anyone’s feeling about Verrone & Young, their methods or approach, I think it is reasonable to infer that they want to negotiate a deal. They may not want to negotiate a deal the AMPTP likes, but their interests are clearly best served by making one sooner rather than later.
I just don’t think you can say the same about the AMPTP. They have partially responded to some proposals, fired some assistants, hired a PR firm, but have never seemed to say anything like, “We don’t like your methods but we hear what your concerns are, these are ours, let’s find some common ground and get everyone back to work.”
From what I’ve seen and heard (admittedly I’m not in the room) they still seem to be primarily concerned with finding ways to not negotiate until they can get the Guild into a weaker position, working the proverbial body.
One may be able to make the case that this is retaliation for the WGA’s decision to strike but that is immaterial to the question of who is willing to negotiate right now.
That is why, in spite of my genuine empathy for everyone who stands to lose from a prolonged work stoppage, I take some offense to the Strike A Deal concept.
Perhaps Tom Short randomly came out with that vitriolic anti-WGA statement just as the producers delivered their ultimatum letter but it reeks to me of the AMPTP exploiting Short’s animosity for Young and Verrone to further a premeditated strategy of turning showbiz workers against the Guild.
Again, one can say that the WGA has engaged in its own propaganda campaign, but none of it has included turning entertainment business workers on one another, to the best of my knowledge.
I’ll just pass on S.A.D., thanks.
DLW, for the reasons you have stated, I too have reservations about attending the rally. However, I understand that there are scared and angry people that feel rather helpless right now. I think this rally is the result of those feelings. And as far as I know, IATSE has nothing to do with the rally – it is a grassroots thing.
No matter the genesis of the rally or its stated aims, a consequence, intended or not, will be to cast the two sides as equally unwilling to bargain.
Nikki Finke just posted the AMPTP’s ultimatum letter. While it certainly points out some overreaching by the WGA (likely with the intention of horse trading down to the crucial issues) the last line clearly demonstrates that it is the AMPTP that has broken off the talks. Again.
“Therefore, unless you advise us immediately that these proposals are withdrawn, we see no purpose in continuing these talks.”
The AMPTP’s actions today are reprehensible and betray any concept of fair dealing. Having said that, of the six things they want off the table, I could understand their position on maybe three of them as things they were unwilling even to discuss, but that absolutely does not excuse using them as a reason to break off negotiations. The animation and reality stuff are corporate lies. They’re painting this as the WGA forcing itself on writers who don’t want to be members. Attempts to join the WGA and unionize in those fields result in mass firings (illegal under federal law, but yes, that happens). The corporation is trying to paint the WGA’s reality and animation proposals as taking away the rights of those writers. In reality, those writers are prisoners who by some queer exceptions are basically excluded from the basic protections the WGA offers. Everything else in there is entirely negotiable. I could certainly understand the AMPTP saying “We won’t do any deal with these in it,” but to completely stop all negotiations now is disingenuous at best and monstrously irresponsible at worst. Nothing about continuing to negotiate forces them to accept those aspects of the proposal. Those are not a roadblock to a deal, those are an excuse for the AMPTP to stall. Does anyone really believe that if the AMPTP offered real movement on the internet issues that the WGA would keep the strike going over stuff like this? Frankly I doubt it. But the WGA would likewise be crazy to flatly give up on all these proposals (especially reality and animation) in exchange for nothing except a promise to continue negotiating. A real negotiation might say “We’ll give you X on internet downloads if you remove Y.” This is hostage taking, pure and simple, and is obviously just a PR blitz. Shame on the AMPTP. Congress and the labor relations board should get involved. They’re not negotiating in good faith and in my opinion have already broken several federal laws when it comes to dealing with strikes and unions.
With all due respect, no, you’re not fighting. Nor are you sacrificing (unless you have lost work because you won’t cross a picket line).
A sacrifice, by definition, demands a voluntary forfeiture of work and wages. You and other non-writer industry folk were forced out of work by the studios and networks. You are collatoral damage.
I do not point that out to negate or dimish your suffering in any way. I only point it out because it is accurate.
It is unfortunate that so many have to suffer because the AMPTP is so greedy. Nobody in the WGA wants you to suffer. The WGA cares about you.
How can I state that with such authority? Because the WGA is made up of actual human beings with actual feelings … almost all of whom have been (or soon will be) feeling the financial hurt.
I haven’t been in this business very long and I had a career-making deal scuttled just days before the strike. It’s back to temp work and slurping ramen noodles for the foreseeable future in my house. I assure you, I am not alone. There are hundreds of writers out there just like me.
But to undermine the WGA’s efforts to protect my future at this point is unthinkable to me. That doesn’t make me a martyr. Just someone who wants to do what they love for a living, get paid for it, and not die in poverty while the corporation continues to exploit and enrich itself off of my creative output for years and years to come.
The AMPTP does not care about you. The AMPTP does not care about anything but money. The AMPTP is not made up of people. It’s made up of corporations. Corporations do not have feelings. Corporations do not care about anything but profits.
The equate the AMPTP with the WGA only gives them more leverage against us. As if they don’t have enough of an advantage already.
You ought to be ashamed of yourself.
Actually, the WGA gave up its DVD residual demand. That’s a pretty large piece of ground to surrender. In return, of course, we were told that we’d get a fair offer on new media residuals. And, of course, no such offer arrived.
In short, the WGA is bargaining in good faith. The AMPTP is not bargaining in good faith. And, of course, now the AMPTP is not even bargaining at all… having now unilaterally walked away from the negotiating table for the SECOND time in a month!
I notice that SAD’s email address is BackToTheTable@gmail.com. I hope y’all are addressing that request to the AMPTP, ’cause they’re the ones who left. The WGA’s still sitting there, waiting.
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
Except that a number of the reality and animation writers in question are members in good standing of IATSE.
On the ‘How did you like the play Mrs. Lincoln’ tip –
It is interesting to note which proposals were not cause for the AMPTP to break up the negotiations.
Hmmm… makes me wonder why you would ever agree to do business with such an entity under any circumstances.
You sound like you’ve lost sight of the fact that the entire purpose of the negotiations was to arrive at an agreement with this soul-sucking Goliath so that you could sell your labor to it for fair compensation. You sound more like you’d rather see them go out of business… which would tend to reduce the market for your services… substantially.
Organizing other genres was the only thing the WGA had left to talk about. We’d already responded to the AMPTP’s “New Partnership” with a fixed-fee streaming-media proposal of our own… and were waiting (and waiting) for a response. We also had–long, long ago–asked for 2.5% on electronic sell-thru… and were waiting (and waiting) for a response (which the AMPTP promised us a week ago, but still hasn’t delivered). So, in the meantime, what was our negotiating team supposed to do? Ask Nick Counter about his cufflinks?
It’s not like the AMPTP spent all week trying to propose an electronic sell-thru rate, and John Bowman kept interrupting him to talk about animation.
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
Anonymouse,
I have nothing to be ashamed of, but thanks for your concern. I side with the WGA and nothing about your post was new or suprising to me. You are fighting with the wrong person. It is clear to me that you just like to argue, so this will be my last post tonight.
I am someone who has picketed alongside you and I someone who has lost most of my family’s income due to the strike. You want to say that we are all in this together and in the same breath say that you are the only one fighting. Well, which one is it? I can choose to fight with you or against you. And that goes back to my earlier post of how the WGA can use the SAD rally to their benefit. This doesn’t have to be about us versus you and the AMPTP. It can be about the unions versus the studios.
I think Tom Short is righteously pissed off that a brother union is attempting to have his union’s jurisdiction over reality and animation writers erased by fiat. It’s a phenomenally stupid demand by the WGA, and it reeks of David Young pulling a fast one to compensate for his failure to organize America’s Next Top Model.
That’s right. And now, the AMPTP is demanding (not asking, demanding!) that the WGA remove 6 MORE issues from the table (including reality, animation, and the no-strike clause) before they will even consider coming back to negotatiate.
And if the WGA were to comply with these outrageous demands, what’s to stop the AMPTP from coming back next week and demanding that the WGA take ALL THE REST of their proposals off the table before resumption of the formal AMPTP ass-fucking can commence?
Anyone who defends the AMPTP after their stunt today is a double-ass-fucking ragged dildo shard.
It’s not accurate in the least. You’re describing self-sacrifice. A sacrifice doesn’t usually get a say over whether it gets its throat slit — just ask any lamb.
Below you’ll find a (long) piece by this guy I know, Micah Wright, about the IA “members in good standing” who happen to be animation writers.
It’s excerpted from a post on WA, in response to a post by your friend and mine, John Ireland.
Again, it follows below.
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
If you think (the AMPTP is) so reasonable and that they deal in good faith, then try talking to writers who work in Animation and Reality… THAT is the future that the AMPTP has in store for EVERY WRITER IN THE WGA. Because if they don’t have to pay residuals to the woman who wrote The Lion King, then why should they ever have to pay one to YOU? Or anyone else?
Oh, and before you give me some fucking sob story about the disastrous strike of 1988, let me bring you up to date with a more RECENT story: mine.
I came to this guild having had a “successful” career writing Animation for $1400/week for five years. During that time, I wrote on several of Nickelodeon’s highest-rated shows. My writing partner wrote and directed 1/4 of the episodes of “SpongeBob SquarePants” and I was responsible for 1/5 of the episodes of “The Angry Beavers.” The current value that those shows have generated for Viacom? $12 Billion dollars. My writing partner topped out at $2100/week. In the year 2001, tired of not receiving residuals for my endlessly- repeating work (even though the actors and composers for my episodes do), I joined with 28 other writers and we signed our WGA cards.
So, Nickelodeon quickly filed suit against our petition for an election, and set about trying to ferret out who the “ringleaders” were. In the meantime, they canceled the show that I had created 4 episodes into an order of 26. Then they fired the 3 writers who’d been working on my show. Then they fired 20 more of my fellow writers and shut down three more shows, kicking almost their entire primetime lineup for 2002 to the curb, and laying off 250 artists.
Then, once the WGA’s petition for election was tied up in court over our illegal firings, Nickelodeon called in the IATSE Local 839 “Cartoonists Guild” — a racket union which exists only the screw the WGA and its own members — and they signed a deal which forever locks the WGA out of Nickelodeon, even though we were there first. Neato!
Then Nickelodeon’s brass decided —out of thin fucking air— that myself and two other writers had been “the ringleaders” of this organizing effort, so they called around to Warner Bros. Animation, the Cartoon Network, Disney Animation, and Fox Kids, effectively blacklisting the three of us out of animation permanently.
And why did Nickelodeon do this? Why were they so eager to decimate their own 2002 schedule, fire 24 writers, break multiple federal labor laws, sign a union deal, and to even bring back the fucking blacklist? They did all of that to prevent us from getting the same whopping $5 residual that the actors & composers of our shows get.
For five lousy fucking bucks, they destroyed three people’s careers and put 250 artists out of work and fucked up their own channel for a year.
Ahh, but my episodes run about 400 times a year worldwide, though, so obviously Sumner Redstone (Salary in 2001: $65 million dollars) and Tom Freston (2001 salary: $55 million) were right to do what they did… myself and those other 23 writers might have broken the bank, what with each of us going to cost them another TWO THOUSAND DOLLARS each! OH NO! That… that’s… FORTY EIGHT THOUSAND DOLLARS!
A YEAR!
The AMPTP and their glittering-eyed weasel lawyers are a bunch of lying, blacklisting, law-breaking scumbags, and the fact that they haven’t budged off of ANY of their proposals in the last three months proves that what they have in store for EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU is exactly what they did to us at Nickelodeon, and what they can do any day of the week in daytime animation. Or reality.
Strike or no strike. That’s their plan: to winnow down your membership, to snip away at your MBA, to chew away at your health & pension plans until there’s just nothing left of the WGA. Why? Because they’ve had a good strong drink of how much money they make off of animation when they don’t have to cut the creators in for any of the cash, and now they want to extend that free ride to all of live action as well. THAT is why they have pushed for this strike at every step, with their insulting press releases, with their refusals to negotiate, etc. — because they’re HOPING we go on strike, and that enough cowards and Quislings come crawling out of the woodwork after six weeks that they can force us to accept the same deal that Reality TV show writers have.
If you doubt me, go read their contract proposals again… there’s not ONE of them which isn’t an insult and a deal-breaking non-starter.
So can we PLEASE stop hearing about how it’s the current WGA management which is the fucking problem here? Because, frankly, that canard is getting a little stale.
Or perhaps you prefer presidents like the President of the Guild back in 2001 who just threw up her hands when we were fired and blacklisted out of our careers and said, and I quote, “oh well, it was a good try”?
Kay we missed you…
Patrick, what would you say if the AMPTP and IATSE announced an early agreement on their new contract… and that it gave jurisdiction over all animation and reality writers to IATSE? Would you simply trade your WGA card for an IATSE card, grateful that at least all animation writers were now in a union? Or would you be pissed that some union boss who doesn’t represent you pulled a fast one without your knowledge and permission?
If WGA wants to organize reality and animation writers — and it does, passionately — it ought to focus its efforts on getting those writers to certify the WGA as their bargaining unit, as they did with your show. That they want to go in through a side door to get that prize — and are injecting that approach into the contract negotiations — is definitely cause for alarm.
I also read the series of posts between Micah and the IATSE organizer that is the subject of his long post. It happens that the WGA did not bother to follow up on its organizing campaign with even a call for a certification vote. The WGA eventually abandoned the effort and IATSE simply walked in and picked up the prize. It may be that the WGA at the time was woefully inept at organizing.
If that’s the source of Tom Short’s ire, then Tom Short should be reminded that the WGA was the first union to attempt to organize animation writers at Nickelodeon, and the first union to attempt to organize reality writers at ANTM. And in both cases, the IA swept in, after the fact, and undercut the WGA’s organizing efforts by agreeing to a backroom deal with the studios to cover those very same jobs. So it’s not exactly like Tom Short’s been the model of respect for the jurisdictional bounds of his brother unions.
In any event, Tom Short is not the guy who walked away from the table today, and the IA is not the entity that walked away from the table today.
The folks who walked away from the table today are the AMPTP.
Repeat: the AMPTP walked away from the table today.
For the 2nd time in a month, the AMPTP walked away from the table.
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
Just curious… would that make anyone who accepts the AMPTP’s filthy lucre as payment for his art under a new contract, sometime after today, a TRIPLE-ass-fucking ragged dildo shard?
It is not a cause for alarm. Those writers CANNOT become real WGA members. Many of them are already in the WGA but they have no recourse. Read the Nickelodeon story. It’s not an exception. You say the WGA didn’t follow up, but what was there to follow up on? Everyone was already fired and the shows were all cancelled. There was nothing to vote on. Only lawsuits to press. For the studios and yourself to say “you can’t take that decision away from them, those guys deserve to decide” presumes that they can decide. They cannot. They’re locked out. If the WGA doesn’t do it this way, doesn’t get it covered like this, then it’s never going to happen because when the writers of one or two of those shows unionize, the studios just illegally fire them and fill the time with repeats, which are much more effective in children’s animation. There’s nothing wrong with animation writers being in IATSE by itself, but the fact is the studios force them into that union because it’s a weak union with no residuals and terrible benfits. I completely accept that the writers shouldn’t expect to get animation or reality jurisdiction in these negotiations, but to say it’s completely beyond the pale is just not true, and to say that you won’t negotiate on internet downloads or streaming or anything else until the WGA promises not to talk about the issue is not appropriate. Even if the AMPTP was right and it wasn’t an appropriate issue, who cares? Just talk about appropriate issues and the WGA won’t stay on strike over animation and you know that.
edit: I of course use the word “you” in these last few sentences to mean the AMPTP, not you personally.
If the SAD rally is directed at bringing the AMPTP (and only the AMPTP) back to the table, then I might consider going. Because the WGA never left.
Though I must say, it’s almost beyond naive to imagine the AMPTP gives two wet farts about anybody’s rally or might in the least be swayed by it since, ya know, the AMPTP isn’t actually made up of people. It’s kind of like the little green guys in TOY STORY pleading with the giant claw not to snatch them up.
You can’t appeal to the better nature of an entity that has no conscience.
I meant to respond to this earlier and forgot. I have to say, it is really poor form to attack someone here whom you know to be banned and cannot defend himself in this forum. Icky-poo on you, Working AD.
Which makes it impossible to come to agreement with them on a new contract. Which means that either the strike goes on, or you go back to work without a contract — neither of which is a palatable alternative.
So, what do you suppose will bring the AMPTP back to the table?
You should believe everything you read on a gossip column. Nikki’s been great with her news! She has everybody’s best interests at heart for sure, in between posts about how many people read her site!
There were other people who didn’t agree, but they’re not here anymore, thank God.
That’s what is so great, because the stupid writers don’t even understand that they’ve put people out of work. It’s so insensitive! How could they think of themselves first, and other people after that? I’m glad the rally is neutral. Maybe it will force those stupid writers to make a deal finally. I mean, what is up with them???
Candy?
It might be worth a shot.
Otherwise, there seem to be two alternatives: drop the items that the AMPTP has declared to be non-negotiable non-starters, or stay out on strike until the AMPTP changes its mind. (Of course, a third alternative might be to go back to work under the old contract so long as the AMPTP agrees to stay at the bargaining table — but the AMPTP might prefer to lock you out at this point rather than let you replenish your bank accounts in preparation for a joint WGA-SAG strike in July.)
And that’d be a great way to do it if the non-union and IA-covered animation shops didn’t make a habit of firing the writers (like Micah Wright) who organize for WGA jurisdiction.
My WGA coverage (at Family Guy) was won by writers who preceded me (and I thank Jesus every day for their courage in demanding it). But it just so happens I had a little go-’round of my own on this issue. It was just last year, while writing an animated pilot for the Disney Channel. After a year’s worth of development work on the project, it finally came time to actually sign a contract. And while poring over the pages, I noticed that the darn thing wasn’t a WGA deal. It was IA: the animator’s guild (something that, to that point, I’d never even heard of). And there were no redisuals. And the minimums sucked. And the health plan was worse than the one I had through the WGA. And I’d have to start all over trying to vest in this new pension plan, when I’d already been fully vested in the WGA’s. Well, being naiive, I politely informed the Disney folks that I was, in fact, a WGA writer, and that I’d really appreciate it if this pilot (and, if things went well, this series) could be produced under WGA jurisdiction. Boy, they had quite the little chuckle over that one. But when they found out I was serious, of course, they said there was no way in hades. Nuh-uh. No matter how many different ways I tried to structure the deal–how many loan-outs or independent signatories I was willing to create and filter the deal through–the Disney peeps vowed to never, not ever, no-how allow my show to proceed under WGA jurisdiction. My only choice, quoth Disney, was to become what you call a “member in good standing of IATSE.”
By the way, the exact same coerced IA membership was forced–in the exact same fashion–upon the executive producers I was paired with for that pilot (a trio of WGA veterans who I’ve seen on the picket lines again and again this past month).
All this is a long way of saying that, near as I can tell (based on my own experience, that of the other writers on my pilot, and the experience of Micah Wright as outlined above), animation writers who are IA (rather than WGA) are so, not because they wish to be IA (rather than WGA), but because the studios have told them that they have no choice but to be IA (rather than WGA), lest they be fired (or else not hired in the first place).
Flip side of that coin? I have never–not once–met a writer on a WGA-covered animated show who wishes that he could be IA instead.
Have you?
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
The AMPTP has demonstrated already that it’s not gonna give concessions out of any sense of fairness. It’s also demonstrated already that it’s not gonna give concessions simply because we’ve unilaterally dropped some of our most important demands. Regretably, it appears that the only stimulus that the AMPTP will respond to is an economic one… specifically, a demonstration that it costs them more money to not make a mutually-acceptable deal with us than it does to simply go ahead and make a mutually-acceptable deal with us. And the only way to effectively demonstrate that to the studios is to continue to strike.
So, yes, I’m afraid the strike will have to continue until a mutually-acceptable deal is reached. Unfortunately, a mutually-acceptable deal cannot possibly be reached at present, because the AMPTP has unilaterally walked away from the bargaining table.
To repeat, for those of you just joining us: for the 2nd time in a month, the AMPTP has unilaterally walked away from the bargaining table.
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
Stuart Creque:
On this point, I happen to agree with the AMPTP. The fact that we are on strike in support of demands that are not mandatory topics for bargaining, while the Guild has yet to even address the issue of compensation for streaming of theatrical motion pictures, is beyond the pale.
Anonymouse, I’m hoping that you’ll get over your anger at some point.
You seem to be missing that I do not dispute that the AMPTP walked out of the talks this evening. But this is not a matter of the AMPTP are the evil empire and everyone else should be yelling at them. If you look at the negotiations rationally, and look at the conditions that the AMPTP set for being able to continue, these were not asking the WGA not to get a fair contract. They were saying that going after reality and animation right now wasn’t possible during this negotiation. They specified why in both cases. They mentioned the no-strike clause, which even the Teamsters can’t drop. In the case of the DGA, I have told our negotiating committee that I want them to put the conscience clause into our contract since there’s no way the no-strike clause will be coming out.
What clearly seems to have happened here is the WGA team really didn’t like the way they were dealt with, and I don’t blame them for that. But at the same time, they were never in an equal position with Counter in the first place, as you’ve already stated.
For David Young to slam the door on Counter after hearing what he didn’t like just plays into Counter’s hands. That’s not a judgment, just a fact of how this went down. I’m sorry if it doesn’t fit with the WGA interpretation.
I fully support the WGA’s right to a fair contract. I have said so over and over again. I believe the AMPTP’s original offer to the WGA was beyond insulting, and I have said so repeatedly. And to answer an earlier comment, I have absolutely lost work because I will not cross picket lines, and I will be out of work in this business until such time as the strike is settled. As will the rest of my crew and pretty much every AD I know. We are not just numbers on a balance sheet and we’re not just helpless victims. We have a right to say something about what is happening to us.
I’m not equating the WGA with the AMPTP. And if you read my posts, you’ll see that.
As for Josh, I understand your ire and his. But nothing merited a personal attack, and nothing merited the untrue statements and insinuations that were made about the SAD rally. He doesn’t need anyone to defend him, as he’s already doing so.
As for Tom Short, I didn’t say that he just randomly issued his statement. I said that he could see what was happening and then piled on. Opportunistic, yes? Proof of collusion with the AMPTP, not necessarily. I’m sure the WGA trying to press the animation issue again was likely a part of his motivation to make that statement.
At this point, we’ll have to see whether any cooler heads prevail. If we’re really lucky, the two sides will be brought back together again before long. And at that time, both sides, including the WGA, will need to give something. That’s how negotiating works, and it’s what we need to see.
Otherwise, we’re looking at DGA negotiations and a strike that will bankrupt or drive out a lot of good people. And while the AMPTP doesn’t care if that happens, there are a lot of us here who do.
Anonymouse:
The central premise of the article questions whether multi-employer bargaining units are legal. It requires only minimal research to determine that they are. Although the AMPTP and the various professional sports owners associations are the most well-known of these kind of bargaining alliances, they are not nearly so uncommon as the writer seems to believe. in fact, they are are the second most common type of bargaining configuration, just behind the “solitary employer” model. Typically, multi-employer bargaining units are found in industries where employees move from employer to employer — construction, and trucking/transport, for example.
Beyond that, the article also presumes that, regardless of any questions of legality, we would be able to negotiate better contracts by bargaining with each Company individually, then we can under the existing multi-employer configuration. This seems to be a fairly common belief among Guild members. Setting aside the one absolute benefit we receive by bargaining with the AMPTP — portable, industry-wide health and pension benefits — this is not nearly so clear-cut an issue as it may seem. Rather than making an argument that will earn me further accusations of being an AMPTP lackey lap dog, I will instead simply quote from the website of one of the premier employer-side law firms in the nation — one of the law firms that specialize in fighting off organizing attempts, impasse-and-implementation strategies and other forms of union-busting. Ready?
At the very least, this should provide some food for thought in considering the issue.
I don’t know. I don’t see much benefit to them in breaking the Guild, and if they were looking to go for an impasse-and-implement strategy at this point of time (the big union-busting move), they would have called current proposal their “best and final offer.” I guess it comes down to, what do you mean by “permanently weaken”?
azkid, just so we’re clear, if the WGA goes “down in flames” during this strike, most of us won’t need to wait to be “next”. We’ll get taken down with you. That’s the nature of collateral damage.
Thanks Working AD for that post. I wish I had the self control and calm demeanor you have – perhaps that is why you are an AD and I couldn’t last for a day.
By which I hope you mean, “If we’re really lucky, the AMPTP will come back to the table.” It’s not a matter of “the two sides being brought back together.” It’s a matter of one of the two sides returning to a place from which it unilaterally departed: the bargaining table.
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
Assuming the “not mandatory topics” you’re referring to include reality jurisdiction and animation jurisdiction, I’d just like to point out that there’s nothing unprecendented or “beyond the pale” about a union using its organizing efforts as bargaining chips. For example, I happen to know that it’s a valuable and oft-used tool for the Hotel Employees and Restaurant Employees union (HERE). They spend years getting cards signed by workers in non-union Hiltons (while the Hilton chain, of course, fights the union off in as many hotels as it can for as long as it can), and then when the next negotiation cycle comes around, HERE uses those cards as chips. (i.e., “Let us cover the Dallas Hilton and the Miami Hilton, and we’ll drop our demands for more overtime.” Or, alternately, “Give us more overtime, and we’ll stop trying to cover the Dallas Hilton and the Miami Hilton.”)
It’s a perfectly legitimate bargaining tool. And it’s effective, too.
If it wasn’t effective, the AMPTP wouldn’t be so pissed about it.
Dropping it, unilaterally, in hopes that the AMPTP will respond with warm hearts and good intentions would be a blunder of the same magnitude as dropping our demand for DVD residuals, in hopes the studios will give us a fair deal on new media. Been there, done that.
In any event, we all know we’re not on strike over reality jurisdiction. Does anyone here seriously believe that if the studios gave us what we wanted on new media residuals, we’d tell ‘em to go f themselves and just stay out on strike indefinitely over reality jurisdiction? Seriously?!
C’mon.
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
Patrick, the AMPTP didn’t simply leave with no notice. They gave a series of conditions under which they felt they could continue and were told no. Then they left. Move on those issues, and they’ll be back. I note that in all accounts the three places where they were really focusing on that list was reality TV, animation and the no-strike clause. And as you’ve just noted, they are not the crux of this negotiation and don’t appear to be helpful in terms of getting the fair contract WGA does need in terms of internet and the future of syndication.
Thank you natalie. I do get a lot of flack as part of the job, but it does balance out. Even if I am just a “traffic cop”, people in the cast and crew have noticed if I’m doing a good job. But here I do agree with azkid – high level producers don’t notice, and really don’t care.
But I have to say that I really understand how angry a lot of people are right now. I think Counter was deliberately pushing the WGA team around, and that’s despicable. The problem comes with the response.
I think Anonymouse, Patrick, azkid, Josh, every WGA writer is really tired of the way they’ve been treated by the AMPTP, and they’re right. Tonight is not a good night for anyone in this industry, and I feel as frustrated as everyone else. I just hope that when all this is over, the anger will cool to the point that things won’t cause people to feel immediately insulted or demeaned because of a difference of opinion.
What the heck does that excuse? If I tell my brother I’m gonna punch him unless he gives me his GI Joe, and then he says no and I punch him, I’m not excused ’cause I’d given him fair notice and a series of conditions by which the punch could be averted.
They’re demanding 6 concessions, not 3, by the way. And in exchange for the Guild unilaterally forsaking 6 bargaining demands, the WGA gets… to keep talking?
What the AMPTP is demanding is that the Guild sit at the table (alone, by the way, because the AMPTP unilaterally walked away) and negotiate with itself. Welp, we already did that once, dropping our DVD residual demand, and what did it get us? More of the same.
If SAD’s email address (BackToTheTable@gmail.com) means anything, it’s time for them (and you) to turn your full ire on the AMPTP and demand that they return to the place from which they unilaterally departed: the table.
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
p.s.: I really hope the Guild negotiators are not as supine as you recommend when it comes to dropping our demand for a conscience clause. ‘Cause if your union ever goes out on strike, I’d really, really like to honor your picket line, Working AD. And if, alas, we are forced to bargain away the right to honor your picket line, it had damn well better be in exchange for something major. Something bigger than what the AMPTP is currently offering us, which is absolutely zip.
Patrick, I apologize if I’ve misunderstood regarding the no-strike clause.
Let me be clear. It’s my understanding that the WGA is not asking just for a “conscience clause” as the Teamsters have, and as I’ve asked the DGA negotiators to include for our contract. What I read was that the WGA asked to have the “no strike” clause completely removed from the contract, thus allowing sympathy strikes.
I don’t like the “no strike” clause either, but there’s no way any of our guilds is able to get rid of the thing. Even the Teamsters have it. But the Teamsters have the conscience clause as well, which is the caveat I want put into the DGA contract and I believe you want put into yours.
If you’re saying that the WGA asked for the conscience clause and the AMPTP unilaterally refused to hear it, that’s a different matter. Have I misunderstood?
This’s the key. To say “Oh the writers should just give up on those six things” implies that the writers get something for doing it. They do not. It’d be like saying to the AMPTP “If you give us a better digital download percentage, we promise to talk to you.” If the writers said that, they’d be pariahed and scorned and rightly so. None of the demands the AMPTP wants off the table are beyond the pale of reasonable discussion. That doesn’t mean the WGA gets them or that they’re even a focus, but if you want them to give them up or stop talking about them, then the amptp needs to actually offer something. As is, they offered nothing, so to put all the onus on the WGA to go back to the table having given up all those things is to play right into their hands and is entirely unreasonable.
Working AD,
No, okay, I think I misunderstood.
I didn’t catch (’til just now) the difference between a no-strike clause (or, rather, the absence of a no-strike clause) and a conscience clause. But you’ve explained it well, and I apologize for my denseness.
Speaking for myself, I’d like my union (and your union) to have both. It’s pretty safe to say that the AMPTP would like my union (and your union) to have neither.
We’ll see how it shakes out, though.
But, again, I apologize.
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
Patrick, thank you.
I agree that the “no strike” clause is flipping horrible. The conscience clause at least would give us a little ledge to stand on, but it’s horrible that we even have to ASK for that.
And I think that you and I and everybody else here has had a singularly crappy day. And I think the AMPTP owes all of us an apology for that one.
I have never–not once–met a writer on a WGA-covered animated show who wishes that he could be IA instead.
Exactly.
The same goes for the reality show people I’ve talked to. They want WGA membership.
That’s a bit of a rewrite- IATSE did not ‘organize ANTM writers’ following the WGA’s strike, they organized the production crew. The editors on ANTM were already under contract to IATSE. In fact, no one organized ANTM “writers” or the story departments on any reality show. I wasn’t there for the nickelodeon deal, but I was for Top Model. (bear in mind that there are ‘reality’ shows that are under contract to the WGA’s MBA, such as Dancing with the Stars, with a fully covered WGA writer. Why the WGA didn’t force the jurisdictional issue with ABC over the others on that show that were creating ‘literary materials’ is unknown.)
Only if you have the leverage to push the employer. A problem with the WGA’s reality organizing campaign, the WGA’s strike at ANTM and perhaps the current strike, is the WGA doesn’t have the leverage it needs to quickly force the AMPTP’s hand. That’s why I thought that for the last few years, as well as trying to organize Reality TV, it would have behooved the WGA to form a real alliance w/ the IATSE and DGA, much the way they been trying to with SAG, and i guess SEIU…(?)
Patrick, it would seem that is exactly what just happened.
I know many are loathe to compare an labor action to a war, but strategically there are many parallels. Jeff Hermanson, the Organizing Director at the WGA has made that comparison many times, as he refers to his dog eared copy of “The Art of War.”
Rumesfeld said (paraphrasing) “you don’t go to war with the army you wish you had, you go to war with the army you have” – well, if you build up the army you ‘wish you had’ you will get far more predictable results. The WGA did not have the army it wished it had at ANTM and payed the price.
I believe that the WGA’s demands (all of them, including jurisdiction) are beyond reasonable, as I believe in the WGA’s membership’s right to strike- I think, however, that taking less then optimal leverage to the table is not responsible- to the members or to the community. Regardless of right or wrong, the AMTPT isn’t about to give you, or us, anything for free.
Dan Silvertree IATSE #44 Member Union Organizer – WGAw, IATSE, Teamsters
Ted,
My definition would consist of:
–Streaming TV residuals with some mechanism to make them scale with viewership, such that a heavily-viewed episode would pay comparably to a network rerun. (I could have lived with every proposal that’s been floated in this area except the one that the AMPTP now insists is the only option. So my “win” would require dislodging them from that stance.)
–Streaming residuals for theatrical.
–No “promotional” streaming.
–Downloads paid at a higher rate than three cents on the ten-dollar bill.
–Jurisdiction over made-for-internet, with minimums scaled by budget and length such that an hour-long, high-budget production would pay roughly the same amount as if it had been produced for television.
–Any of the AMPTP’s rollbacks that are still on the table get taken off. (Hence, no changes to separated rights.)
–Reasonable numbers attached to all of the above. (Lower than the Guild’s initial proposals, not so low that you’d have to suppress your gag reflex while voting to ratify them. Like everybody else, I’ll know “reasonable” if I see it….)
That’s about it. I do very much share Patrick’s wish for a “conscience clause” in our contract, too, if we could possibly get one…but if getting one meant lengthening the strike beyond the time frame necessary to settle the above stuff, I dunno. Seems like the greatest good for the greatest number of union workers at that point would probably be accomplished by everyone going back to work.
Which doesn’t change the fact that this union is on strike in support of demands that are not mandatory topics for bargaining, while there are issues that are mandatory topics for bargaining we have not yet addressed.
I don’t really care if the AMPTP is “pissed” about it or not.
My God, how horrible? You mean the company had signed a closed-shop union contract with IATSE? Why, how despicable!
Now, if they had signed a closed-shop union contract with WGA, and an IATSE member joined your staff, what would you have told him about his being required to join the WGA to work on your show? What if he complained about how, even though the WGA benefits were better, he really, really wanted to be under an IATSE contract to complete his vesting in IATSE’s meager and inadequate health and retirement plan (which I understand is funded in large part by residuals that are somehow not residuals)?
I guess the WGA writers who went before you showed the same fortitude and wisdom that IATSE’s organizers show when they go out to help workers unionize. (Of course, an AFL-CIO affiliated union can’t possibly compare in labor cred to a professional workers’ guild.)
You might ask the brave WGA men and women who preceded you why they ever agreed to negotiate a no-strike clause in the WGA MBA, by the way.
I am in agreement down the line with Pseudonymouse on what an acceptable deal would look like.
Though I could live with some sort of brief promotional streaming window for episodic.
I would love to have a “no strike” clause but it’s hard to imagine that is conceivable to the AMPTP. It’s kind of like saying “Oh, while we’re in the middle of this knife fight, I demand the right to have gun next time.”
I personally don’t like the word “win” because concepts like win and lose are impediments to what is required for a solution: compromise.
As things now stand, you are going to remain on strike indefinitely before the AMPTP even begins to discuss any of the other things you want on economic issues because your Guild is demanding reality and animation jurisdiction.
That means you will remain on strike until either (a) the AMPTP changes its mind about the non-negotiable non-starters or (b) the WGA changes its mind about the non-negotiable non-starters. And whether what comes to pass is (a) or (b), that won’t be the end of the strike — just the return of active bargaining.
(By the way, in your metaphor, you’re demanding that your brother give you his bike — you really, really want his bike — as part of the deal over your G.I. Joe, which you really, really need to sell him to get money for you new Wii game. He’s told you over and over that his bike isn’t ever going to be part of the deal, but you’re still pestering him, “What about your bike?” He’s told you, “Shut up about the bike, already,” and you give it one more, “What about the bike?” So he says to you, “Look, there’s no point even talking to you until you stop asking for my bike.”)
Simon, what do the writers get for holding solid on their demand for those six things? And how do you see them getting it?
DLW & PseedoMouse — I agree, here-here! Like to also add the controversial dvd bump — so pissed when they agreed to take this off the table. A cent or two bump would have been at least something! I don’t believe dvd market is so close to it’s death bed — we have a whole book case filled with dvds, and if the strike wasn’t happening and my husband was working and my three new specs were going out, we would have purchased Battlestar Galactica series (OMG! wonderful) instead of netflixing (same goes with Buffy, which I’m also catching up on..).
Nothing wrong with winning. Something somewhat wrong with defining winning as requiring the other guy to lose, no matter what.
Sorry for the dbl — I still don’t get when you try to go back, post-posting, to correct something (had a typo), it ends up posting twice. What am I doing wrong?
I also tried to go back to erase first posting but wouldn’t take. Thanks/sorry.
The discussion here seems to be limited to the five points in the AMPTP’s ultimatum for a return to bargaining that, at the end of the day, are probably expendable to most members. But what about the sixth?
“Lastly, we cannot agree to any new residual formula based upon the concept of “Distributor’s Gross.” That is, any residual formula that requires payment to be made based upon the receipts of an entity other than the signatory Company is unacceptable to us. Our agreement to share revenues with you must be limited to those revenues actually received by the signatory Company.”
This seems to preclude any payment of residuals for shows the studios allow the networks to stream without direct compensation. Is that something most members would concede as a requirement for further discussion?
Hello Patrick Meighan, don’t know why you are complaining about the AMPTP…you and the vast majority of the WGA members are getting exactly what you voted for…Patric Verone, David Young, and a big fat strike/labor war. The guild pissed on peoples shoes, spit in their face, called them every foul name they could think of, then they attacked people in their home neighborhood, broke into private meetings, ridculed and publicly insulted a show host, beat war drums for two years with Hugo Chavez red shirt rallies while shouting victory or death. With such an array of psychotic behavior, the AMPTP is doing the only logical thing possible, taking steps to put the dumb beast out of its misery. ps, my attorney is back in town and really needs to talk to yours and to josh olson’s…please email me their numbers.
Hello, John Ireland!
If you think problems have you, the psychotic deathly threat which I have got you must see! Many time!
I came in good faith your friends (the studios) to help by writing episodes of their shows during the strike. It is not as if I steal anyone’s job. The writers have left the shows. How they (studios) supposed to get write?
Not as thoughI snuck within and stole. I would understand, whereas they still wanted them. But that is not the case.
I agree you concerning how complain un-creative the old writers are, and I confirm that. For my show Chuck, Chuck will be lose eyes. How about that? I do same when I write the complete next season of The Office. Everyone loses their eyes!
On Chuck, the drama of losing your eyes will examine, but on The Office, I can examine same the question with a funny perspective. Because everything are tragically and funny, same time.
Does your lawyer specialise himself in representing people such as you and me? If this, you can him touch me with to put?
Thanks you, brother!
It might require a contract provision that requires the producer/studio to prove that their giving another company use rights without monetary compensation is done as an “arm’s length” transaction, that is, done in what the producer/studio believes is strictly in its own best interest, and not in the joint best interest of itself and the distributor. If a Disney production entity gives ABC the right to stream a program without payment to the production entity just so it can avoid showing “producer’s revenue” that must be shared with the WGA, that’s a trick that has to be foreclosed in the contract. If a Disney production entity gives NBC the right to stream a program without monetary compensation because it genuinely believes doing so is necessary to promote the program, then it’s hard to see how Disney can pay revenue that’s only received by NBC Universal.
The major caveat is that the AMPTP producers should not be allowed to collude just so that they all avoid WGA compensation by all agreeing to give away streaming rights, figuring out that when everything nets out, all of the AMPTP companies come out ahead. One possible way to avoid this is to create an imputed value to the streaming right: break the actual revenue to the producer/studio into a part imputed to the regular licensing of the program for broadcast, and part imputed to the value of streaming. That declares that, regardless of what the AMPTP calls it, streaming does indeed create actual revenue to the producer/studio (based on how much they would have to discount the licensing fee in order to keep the network from getting the streaming rights).
Anonrighter – the editing feature is hella confusing. When you want to edit or delete your post, click on it and the editing box will open up right where the post was. (The confusing part is that you’ll also see part of your post quoted into the reply box at the bottom of the thread — completely ignore that.)
Below the edit box (where your post used to be will be “save”, “delete”, and “cancel” buttons. Edit your post within the edit box and hit “save” (do NOT hit the “submit comment” button below the reply box, as that creates a duplicate post). Or, to delete the post, hit the “delete” button below the edit box. Editing and deleting are subject to a 15-minute countdown clock….
I’d like to add that if this were the AMPTP’s plan, then the WGA played and is playing right into their hands.
Of course, this is not and has never been the plan of the AMPTP. It only gets considered because at a certain point the WGA has caused the AMPTP to lose enough money to make them “pot committed” so to speak. “Breaking the guild” becomes an attractive alternative.
I probably wont post for some time. Thanks to my boss, my unit has been able to situate itself to get some extra work to do. But also that I think I’ve said what I have to say and then some. You should have your forum to discuss these issues with each other and I am sure there are plenty of moderates out there who can fill the void.
Brian – sorry about the Iraq analogy. I get what you are saying. I think it’s a powerful analogy because I’d bet many of the writers are liberal and have felt the other side of these similar but not the same tactics. I implore people to NOT fall into that easy strategy of attacking the messenger, ostracizing fellow guild members for voicing disagreement and overplaying your hand. Anyway, my sincere apology and you are right.
I’d also like to say that I think that it’s pretty clear there are very few writers who have really decided to tackle this strike seriously. By “seriously” I mean that you’ve taken the time to read every bit of information available to you. You have to read your MBA. Honestly, how many of you have read that crucial document? Coming on here and talking about what is or isn’t a “fair” deal without reading the MBA is like a person trying to convert someone to Christianity without having read the Bible. Read the posted offers and counter offers. And, this is very important, don’t blindly accept anything from anyone. Independently verify everything. Oh and there is plenty of unimpeachable statistics out there about the state of the entertainment business. Ratings charts, Box Office numbers, etc. Read that stuff. It’s as equally important to understand how these companies are really performing. If you ask for more money, it helps to know what the effect of that will be (i.e., if the studio has less and less revenue, then if you add a cost it has to find money from somewhere to cover that cost…or CUT COSTS. That means people lose jobs….maybe writers, maybe non-writers, but someone).
I have to say, the reason why Ted and Craig are “moderates” and get shit from some writers for not buying the party line is because they are themselves informed. If you were as informed, you would probably find yourself agreeing with them.
Oh, and stop vilifying the other side. They are human, yes. Like Soylent Green they are made from people. They have writers in their families and as friends. They have their own careers to worry about, as well. If it’s OK for you to be self interested (and the response to SAD clearly shows that you are), then it’s OK for them to be that way too. So, for one, try and focus on attacking issues rather than people talking about them.
For my part, I believe the writers to be the smartest, best educated group of “laborers” in the world. You all can understand this stuff just as well as I can or anyone else. Take the time. It is, after all, your future.
Exactly! Finally somebody says it the way it should be said! I hope you’re going to tomorrow’s rally, John Ireland.
Can I ask a serious question?
Why is it that, whenever people get heated up and want to describe someone agreeing to be degraded or someone demonstrating spineless subservience, they go to the trope of “cocksucking” or “ass-fucking”? Not to go all PC on y’all, but doesn’t that show a lack of imagination to just revert to an easy metaphor based on basic societal distaste for homosexual acts?
Personally, I think calling someone a “cocksucker” ought to evolve into a high form of praise. The cocksuckers I know — male and female — are people willing to give of themselves to please others unselfishly.
From DLW:
I’m not sure your interpretation is correct- even if there’s no direct compensation to the Company for streaming rights specifically, we can (and should, I think) be negotiating for a license-fee or script-minimum based residual, and it sounds like the AMPTP would accept that in the abstract (with crazy low numbers) since that’s still revenue received by the Company even if there’s no streaming-specific deal.
I should have thrown a shout to Clifford. Clifford, in another life, perhaps
You are a good dude.
Thanks Stooge, if this goes on for way long, who knows, maybe I’ll take the LSATs and fulfill my mother’s fondest dream. Let’s figure out a way to break our covers and have lunch someday.
Stuart,
My definition of winning was pretty carefully crafted to allow the other side to win, too. Although DLW is right; there should be a residual-free window (or partial crediting of streaming residuals against rerun residuals, or something along those lines) so that the net effect is something approximating parity with current residuals, rather than a new way for us to double-dip.
The AMPTP would get a benefit in that streamed TV episodes that drew few viewers would cost them less money in residuals. (Unlike traditional rerun residuals, which are set at fixed amounts.)
And although the AMPTP would obviously consider it a much bigger win to establish made-for-internet production as an entirely non-unionized, low-wage ghetto to which they could eventually migrate the bulk of their production, it should be just as obvious that we can’t possibly agree to that. But scaling the script minimums by both budget and length would address the companies’ complaint that the kind of short, cheap, experimental stuff they’d need to do first to establish a business online would be prohibitively expensive if it was unionized. We have plenty of precedent for exactly this kind of scaling in television; there’s nothing revolutionary about it.
I believe everything I’ve listed would both allow us to maintain our incomes as production shifts online (assuming we did comparable work there; e.g. high-budget hourlongs), and allow the companies to continue earning profits comparable to what they have in the past. Downloads is the only item on my list where we’d be seeking a direct increase in residuals (relative to the current download rate — but it’s worth noting that the studios simply imposed that rate by fiat, without ever bargaining with us or even consulting us on it). I’m willing to let them win the argument over DVDs; they claimed they needed to pay us a crappy rate because of high manufacturing costs, and we made that concession to them. Since downloads have zero manufacturing costs and significantly lower distribution costs, I think it’s perfectly reasonable that we refuse to accept a similarly discounted rate there.
The proposals the AMPTP has made so far require us to lose in order for them to win. My definition of winning simply asks them to meet us in the middle.
I’d like that, Clifford. I’ll think if there’s a way. We may have to wait until this is over.
I wasn’t sure my interpretation was correct either, which is why I put it out for discussion.
Based on your take, I would bet most of the membership wouldn’t be opposed, in principle, to the six requirements for restarting talks. We’d then appear to have made huge concessions and put the onus on the AMPTP to make some of their own in areas that matter most to us.
It would allow The Companies to wave their, “We won’t be fucked with” flag and give them cover to concede some points without encouraging other collective bargaining entities to think that striking is good business.
Sure, no one likes the notion of an ultimatum but a strike isn’t exactly a polite gesture, either.
Stooge: Agreed, better to wait until this ends. Or, just meet me at the corner of Santa Monica and Wilcox tonight at 10. I’ll have a rolled-up copy of the MBA in the rear left pocket of my jeans.
DLW:
Yeah, though it would be nice, to get some context for what the AMPTP really thinks is acceptable at this point, to know what the numbers were in the new streaming / EST plan they floated yesterday. Nikki Finke reports that Bryan Lourd thought they were a significant improvement, but that email from John Bowman certainly suggests otherwise.
Pseudonymouse, I apologize if you took my comment as criticism of you or your proposal. I do see your proposal as a win-win for the AMPTP and the WGA.
But I do think some people on both sides are locked into the idea that this dispute is somehow an opportunity to stick it to the other side or prove how powerful its own side is. Those people seem to have lost sight of the fact that the entire objective of the labor dispute is to come to an agreement with the other side, one which — BY DEFINITION — has to be acceptable to both sides in order to be ratified.
It’s certainly an option for either or both sides to negotiate by not negotiating, with the thought that the strike will do the talking and force the other side to accept less in future than it would today. If that’s how the two sides want to do it, we’ll simply have to wait to see which side is right about the other. I think — and I think that you think — there is a better way forward that focuses on what is achievable in the near term rather than the gamble that the other side’s demands will erode faster than ours will.
Exchange of hostages. Find six (plus or minus) items that are non-negotiable non-starters in the AMPTP proposal and offer to drop their six for our six. No one loses face, both sides can claim to have won something.
Unless, of course, the WGA Negotiating Committee is truly prepared to hold fast to any or all of those six demands as non-negotiable prerequisites for a contract.
I can’t imagine this is true. It would be a politically untenable position over a long, or even medium-length, strike.
I’m going to take the rosy view that it’s understood these are mostly bargaining chips.
I don’t know what would happen in your above scenario because, as I’ve said above, I’ve never in my entire career met an WGA writer who wished to be in the IA instead. Nor have I ever met an IA writer who got staffed on a WGA show and wished not to join the WGA. Have you? Has anyone?
By contrast, I have met IA animation writers who wished to be in the WGA instead, and were not only rebuffed, but fired. I also have met WGA writers who got staffed on an IA show and wished not to join the IA (and as mentioned above, I myself have been one of said writers in the second category).
Perhaps you should ask me a hypothetical that actually has a precedent in the real world, rather than a hypothetical that assumes the polar opposite of all known facts in evidence.
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
Indeed, some might call a strike the aftermath of an ultimatum (“Give us what we want or we’ll walk off the job”) that was ignored by the other side. The fact that there was a secondary ultimatum (“Call off the strike or we’ll walk away from the bargaining table”) from the other side on Nov. 4 doesn’t erase the first one.
That better way is only possible if both sides are actually sitting at a bargaining table. Unfortunately, one of those two sides walked away, unilaterally. Not both sides. One side.
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
Happy trails, Stooge. I, for one, will very much miss having your perspective as stuff continues to unfold. (Assuming stuff resumes unfolding at some point.)
See you ’round….
Dovetailing back, I don’t think the example of “Give me your bike!” and “Shut up about the bike or we won’t talk anymore is accurate.” Pushing this silly GI Joe analogy further, it’s more like this: We want the GI Joe, they want our Superman toy. They tell us, in the next week we’re gonna give you a proposal that involves the GI Joe. And we say, great. Then we wait, and we wait. Nothing happens. So we’re negotiating every day and they’re not presenting anything about the GI Joe, so we try to talk about other, less important business in the meantime. So then they come in screaming “That Bike deal you were talking about while waiting for our GI Joe offer? It’s offensive and ridiculous and you either give up on it right now or we’re leaving forever.” Now you’re saying, yeah, just give up on the bike deal, but the AMPTP isn’t offering anything. They’re not offering the GI Joe, they’re not offering anything they promised to offer. It’s perfectly reasonable for them to want those six demands off the table, but what’s not reasonable is to demand they go off the table without offering anything and to make their removal contingent on the AMPTPs return. Or, if they really didn’t want to even acknowledge those demands, then hell, just talk about the GI Joe deal or some other deal that is palatable. Those six things are a red herring. They just wanted an excuse to leave the bargaining table. They could still be bargaining right now and it wouldn’t mean in anyway that reality or fair economic value were on the table. It’d just mean they were negotiating in good faith. Blaming the WGA for this presumes that if they took those six things off the table they’d get anything, and it presumes that those six things were stopping the negotiations dead in their tracks. They weren’t. They may have been nonstarters in the AMPTPs mind, but the WGA was happy to talk about the other issues, and as the WGA noted, the AMPTP had things in their proposal that the WGA felt were nonstarters.
If you did, if a new writer on your staff wished not to join the WGA or even go fi-core but rather wished either to affiliate to another union or to remain unaffiliated, would you respect his wishes and welcome him aboard? Because I think your contract, like IATSE contracts, requires your management to fire someone who refuses to join (or at least pay dues to) your union. Is that incorrect?
I guess when it comes down to it, you’re down with teh solidarity if the other union in question isn’t competitive to yours — like grocery and hotel workers — but when the other union is in your front yard and organizing your peers, it ceases to be a brother union and becomes a pawn of management. Some solidarity.
My boss, David A. Goodman, happens to be on the WGA negotiating committee. In three years I’ve worked for him, I’ve noticed plenty of faults (we all have ‘em), but I’ve never known him to be a liar. Nor has he ever struck me as some sort of wild-eyed, barricade-manning radical. Pretty much the opposite, actually.
Just once I wanna work for a radical.
In any event, he sent me (and the other writers at Family Guy) the following email today, detailing his eye-witness account of Friday’s events. I thought it might be nice to get a fully-attributed, eye-witness narrative into the public record, which y’all can go ahead and weigh against the anonymous, unattributed accounts posted here and elsewhere.
Regards,
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I
Since everybody’s reading Nikki Finke, I wanted to address specifically what she’s getting wrong, since I was there.
Nikki Finke’s quotes are in bold:
But the AMPTP issued demands that the writers take Reality TV and animation jurisdiction off the table as well as remove the no-strike clause in their contract. (The latter means that, if the writers settle with the AMPTP, then they must cross picket lines if the Screen Actors Guild goes on strike.)
I’m told that, after the AMPTP proposal/demands were made, the WGA negotiators went to caucus inside a hotel room. The WGA decided amongst themselves that what the AMPTP brought to the table today was a take-it-or-leave-it “ultimatum” and claimed the New Media terms were the same old/same old.
Nikki sometimes gets things right, but this is a complete mischaracterization. The AMPTP said VERY EXPLICITLY WHEN THEY MADE THEIR PROPOSALS: IF YOU DON’T TAKE ALL THESE ITEMS OFF THE TABLE RIGHT NOW, WE WILL NO LONGER BARGAIN WITH YOU. We didn’t “decide” it was an ultimatum, IT WAS AN ULTIMATUM. Also, Nikki hasn’t listed all the items THEY DEMANDED WE TAKE OFF THE TABLE AS A CONDITION TO CONTINUE BARGAINING: one of them was our demand for a distributor’s gross definition on new media. If we took it off the table, it would completely gut all our new media proposals. Another was our “fair market value” test, which keeps companies from selling things to themselves at a lower price than they could get from another company. So when the WGA reps went back to our caucus room, we had a lot of decisions to make, but WE didn’t define it then as an ultimatum, they had already made it clear that it was. We were still going to make a counter proposal in the hopes of keeping the negotiations going. However, we were all pretty clear that they were setting us up (this, I think, Nikki was right about).
Sources tell me that, after about an hour and a half, the AMPTP sent Bryan Lourd to the hotel room to ask what was happening. He was told by the WGA they were preparing a counter-proposal. Lourd was asked by the AMPTP to find out if that counter-proposal contained anything from the list of demands which the networks and studios wanted the WGA to take off the table. The WGA negotiators wouldn’t say.
WRONG. As we were discussing what to do, NICK COUNTER came looking for David Young. He asked him, in the hallway, “Are you going to take those things off the table?” David said we were working on our counter proposal, but wanted to present everything at once, he wasn’t going to negotiate in the hallway, and said we would be making a counter proposal very soon, that night. This story makes it look like we were stone-walling Brian Lourd, it’s meant to characterize the leadership as uncooperative with our mediator, which couldn’t be further from the truth. Nick Counter came and got this directly. And we weren’t stonewalling him, we really were working on a counter proposal, and also preparing what we were going to say to the members in case they walked out.
At 6:05 PM, Counter knocked on the hotel room door trying to find out some indication from Dave Young what the WGA was going to do, especially on the reality/animation jurisdiction and no-strike issues. Counter brought Bryan Lourd along “as a witness,” I’m told. “David Young answered and was visibly angry.”
They got the time right, because it was clearly staged for them to make their press deadline, the rest is horsheshit. Nick came looking for David again and tried to motion David away from Brian Lourd’s door (where Brian was standing), but David motioned Brian to follow them so he heard what Nick said. Nick then told him “We’re leaving, and breaking off negotiations. If you want to take those things off the table, put it in a letter and we’ll make an appointment to resume negotiations.” And David was not “visibly angry”, all the conversations in the hallway were amicable, if tense. This is an attempt by the other side to paint David Young as a loose cannon.
Insiders say that Bryan Lourd counseled the WGA negotiators that “this was their maximum moment of leverage” and urged them to try to “trust” the AMPTP. But they told Lourd they couldn’t at this point.
I don’t know if Lourd said this or thought this. But it didn’t matter, because they clearly didn’t expect we would take these things off the table because they had their incredibly detailed, long-winded press release prepared about how talks had broken down. It was INSTANTLY up on their website the minute Nick Counter said “We’re leaving.” this was their plan all along.
“It was an ultimatum. They said unless we take everything off the table except streaming and ESTs that they’re not going to negotiate anymore and basically they’re leaving until we’ll remove all those other things,” a WGA board member explained. “We’re not accepting an ultimatum. We’re here to bargain and to talk.”
Counter then said to Young, “In that case, we are leaving. When you send us a letter confirming you will take all these items off the table, we will reschedule negotiations with you.” The WGA hotel room door slammed shut.
NO DOOR WAS SLAMMED. I loved the hackiness of this touch. We’re running around slamming hotel doors.
Even if they were serious about us taking those items off the table, we already took DVD’s off the table with a similar assurance: you take this off the table, and we’ll bargain with you. We know how that worked out. They were not negotiating with us AT ALL. They want us to negotiate with ourselves, so we keep taking things off the table in the hopes they’ll bargain fairly, and when they finally make their lowball offer we’ve given everything away and there’s no way to get a better deal. They’re trying to divide and conquer, by making it look like the leadership is keeping the membership out on strike over issues that aren’t important to them, but THEY STILL HAVEN’T GIVEN US ANYTHING AT ALL. They want it to look like it’s our intransigence that’s keeping a deal from getting done, but it’s them.
Just wanted to clear these things up. The facts are on our side.
Great. One side. Got it.
Can your side achieve a new contract without that other side returning to the table?
If not, how do you plan to get that other side back to the table? Other than repeating that they were the ones to walk away, since that doesn’t seem to have any persuasive effect on them.
Sadly, the only plan at our disposal is to cause the other side financial pain until such time as they realize that returning to the table and making a fair deal costs them less than not returning to the table and refusing to make a fair deal.
It’s not as good as that “better way forward” that you dream about, but there’s no way the WGA can find that “better way” all alone, without a negotiating partner with which to walk it. Which is why it’s so sad that our negotiating partner, unilaterally, chose to leave the table.
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
Patrick-
Thanks for posting that email. I’m grateful for as much first-hand info as I can get.
Stooge, you can’t leave. Period.
Patrick:
Good luck with that. I’ll see you in five years.
Creque, I don’t understand your position. It’s basically “You can’t get a deal done without the AMPTP, so you have to do everything they say or else there won’t be a deal.” Umm, no, it’s a negotiation, or at least it’s supposed to be. By that logic, if the WGA said that they refused to talk to the AMPTP until the AMPTP agreed to every single one of the WGA’s demands, then the AMPTP would have to come back with their tail between their legs. Taking a hard-ass stance doesn’t automatically make their side right and the most powerful. Hopefully, this is a bluff meant to weaken WGA resolve and promote just the sort of infighting your line of thought suggests. An attempt to make the leadership look crazy. Now maybe you believe that the AMPTP doesn’t care how long the strike goes on and how much money they lose and that they’re gonna win no matter what, and in that case I guess I could see why you think the WGA needs to do everything they say without getting anything in return and having faith that such actions will somehow produce mercy on the AMPTP’s side (though I think it’d just put the scent of blood in the water). But however awful, the strike is gonna go on until the studios move on something; they’re the holdout, not the writers. They won’t negotiate, the writers will. The best move for the WGA is to stay strong, keep demanding they negotiate, and hope that the impact of the strike starts to be felt and the studios come off of their armageddon or bust position.
Craig -
In an earlier post you said:
“…I think the reason the companies started talking like there was a decent offer on the table is because they actually believed they were putting a decent offer on the table.”
This insinuates that the AMPTP is negotiating in good faith. Based on what happened Friday, do you still believe that?
Patrick, thank you for posting Goodman’s account. I’ll go with his statement on this, since he is being pretty clear about what was happening. So David Young didn’t slam the door, and the accounts I read of that happening were misinformed. But I do have to say that given the bad blood between these guys, I don’t know that I can believe they were having a genial and cordial conversation about these matters.
I’d like to believe that there is another solution to this mess that doesn’t consist of the strike going on until the sun burns out. And I don’t want to see the DGA brought in, because it will hopelessly convolute this situation and guarantee that the work stoppage will kill the current TV & pilot season.
I think there are a couple of problems with taking all six items off the table, although the “exchange of hostages” would be an excellent way to clear out the deadwood on both sides (assuming they do in fact consider those items deadwood) and get down to the critical stuff.
People have mentioned the possibility of sweetheart deals between studios and networks with the same owner. There could also be more complicated transactions, even among entities with different owners, involving elements of barter that would reduce the cash value of the producer’s gross. The Fair Market Value proposal, which is another of the items on the AMPTP’s “must go” list, is intended to provide a way to assign a dollar value to the transaction as a whole, and use that value as the basis for residuals if it’s higher than the cash value alone.
So the AMPTP not only insists that we base everything on producer’s gross, but also insists that we not have any verification mechanism to ensure that the producer’s gross is not being artificially reduced. (I don’t know how the “fair market value” would actually be calculated, and I don’t know whether the AMPTP’s objection is to that specific mechanism or to the whole concept of independent verification, but god knows we should be suspicious anytime this particular group of people says “Trust us; we’ll do the math for you.” These are the same people who keep stating that we all earn $200,000 a year, after all.)
Also — and I have this nagging sense that I may be mixing up concepts here — is the “producer’s gross” for purposes of DVD residuals computed using the arbitrary “20% of 100%” formula? Or is it that residual calculations are based on “20% of 100% of producer’s gross?”
I ask because we specifically don’t want to make that 80% reduction to the base before calculating residuals for downloads, the way we do for DVDs. Is this a backhanded attempt to make us agree to do so anyway, before we ever resume negotiations? Or am I just confused here? (I certainly won’t be surprised if it’s the latter.)
Me: “Sadly, the only plan at our disposal is to cause the other side financial pain until such time as they realize that returning to the table and making a fair deal costs them less than not returning to the table and refusing to make a fair deal.”
Okey doke, Craig. Personally, I don’t imagine it’ll take 5 years of economic pain for the AMPTP to realize how reasonable most of our demands are (particularly in the area of new media residuals). But you could be right. I dunno. I’m not omnipotent. I’m just resolved. Really, really, really resolved.
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
Oops — got distracted midway through writing that and Patrick posted answers to all my questions before I came back and finished it. Disregard, please….
Assuming you’re talking about me, it’s just a habit. I sign my full and complete name (and city of residence) in every message board post, wherever I post, regardless of the topic, the folks to whom I’m writing, whatever.
I guess I consider it my own personal stand against anonymous or pseudonymous posting, which I, personally, find distasteful (though I appear to be outnumbered).
But if the conversation has dessicated to the point where we’re discussing posting protocol, maybe it’s time I skedaddled for the present.
Best to all,
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
Pseudonymouse, I agree. There has to be a protection to ensure that the AMPTP companies don’t engage in self-dealing and other collusive schemes to shelter revenues from the WGA’s share. That’s a principle that’s necessary and fundamental to getting the new media residuals the writers are demanding. Thus, the Fair Market Value mechanism the WGA proposed may need to be revised to reach agreement with the AMPTP, but some similar protection will have to be included if the AMPTP wants an agreement with the WGA.
This is something worth pushing back for. I don’t believe reality and animation jurisdiction are on nearly the same level.
Well, it’ll be a shame to miss out on your substantive contributions to this board, but I guess that’s the way the cookie crumbles.
Best,
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
Simon, remember that the WGA has said that its members will not work until the AMPTP agrees to a minimum set of demands. That’s just as drastic as walking away from the bargaining table — actually, a bit more so, since it is possible to work under an expired contract while continuing negotiations. The WGA membership determined that a strike was the best way forward to gain leverage in the negotiations, and having pulled that trigger, it’s important that the membership remain solidly committed to making the strike weapon work. But that does absolutely mean that the WGA wants the strike to force the AMPTP back to the table with its tail between its legs — so it’s silly to feel ill-used if the AMPTP uses hardball tactics in return.
At this point, the WGA has some hard choices to make. I think the challenge will be to craft a letter to the AMPTP that says, “we can take these items off the table IF you also take those items (whatever they may be) off the table, and we require that these items (I would include the fair market value and sympathy strike items here) remain subject to negotiation. If these terms are agreeable, we will be at the bargaining table to resume contract negotiations.” Period.
The goal of that letter would be to make it clear to the industry that the WGA is committed to negotiating an end to the strike — and that only negotiations have any chance of ending the strike. That puts the onus even more squarely on the AMPTP for taking the next step to restarting negotiations.
But that’s just me.
If that doesn’t get the Ninotchka troll banned, Craig, you’ll be derelict in your duty. That’s beyond uncivil — it’s repugnant.
I’m going to agree with Stuart on the last bit. I have disagreed with Patrick here before, but I do not doubt he is an intelligent and passionate writer and supporter of his guild. To refer to him in the terms I just read is akin to hate speech.
Stuart, I also agree that the line item approach may be a good one. The WGA Negcomm knows which of those items are the ones they must retain and which they won’t. I honestly don’t think they’ll be able to get the no-strike clause out, but I do believe they can go for the Teamsters’ conscience clause as an option that allows the proper moral choice but without the AMPTP having any economic reason to refuse it. It’s not anywhere near as desirable as dropping the no-strike clause, but I just don’t see how any guild or local in this town can do it, until all of our contracts run out at the same time and we can all ask for it together.
Gee Craig, thanks for your brilliant, constructive insight.
On their crappy new media proposals you’re all “strike to the death!”, “Howard Gould is my hero” one minute, then “good look with that, chumps” the next.
Thanks.
Ninotchka, really, why are you here? To attack people and call them names? That’s all you’ve done here and it’s truly an unfortunate choice.
deleted
That’s a good idea, but the AMPTP’s actions seem to signal that anything short of unilaterally dropping those six proposals, one of which you agree is pretty damn important, will not involve their return to the bargaining table. Now that could be a bluff, but I don’t see why they’d release such an invective press release if they thought the WGA could be back in a few days having followed their instructions. The concept wasn’t to negotiate, it was to anger and divide the guild. It’s a strategy meant to destroy the union, not deal with it. They’ve already got Ted Elliot screaming about how movie promotional streaming wasn’t discussed. They want one side of the guild to sell out the other and leave the writers with no unity and no bargaining chips. It’s a good strategy and it could work. So I agree, the guild should say, nothing is set in stone, we can move on these issues if you move on these other issues, but the AMPTP’s actions so far have been geared around the idea that the WGA always needs to make the first move, and twice now they’ve betrayed the WGA negotiators by promising a proposal that never came. I guess what I’m saying is that I agree with your letter, but I think you’re much too forgiving and optimistic about the AMPTP’s current motivations. They don’t want to negotiate, and the letter would be a good way to demonstrate that and shame them. They’ll return to the table eventually when they’ve decided that they struck a blow and punished the strikers and made them suffer.
THIS IS LONG AND FROM STOOGE. SKIP IF YOU LIKE.
Exception: if someone from the WGA NegComm has something posted on here (where I don’t think anyone from the AMPTP or an AMPTP company will ever read it), then I’m gonna respond.
First of all, there aren’t really 6 points, so I’m gonna call what the AMPTP did as an “Ultimatum.” The Ultimatum consists of (I think): (1) reality/animation jurisdictional issues; (2) WGA’s wish to remove the no strike clause; (3) never accepting that for new media you will share in distributor’s (e.g., network) revenue (including ad revenue); and (4) never accepting to impute a fair market license fee. I think 2 and 4 are both somewhat suspect . 2 is something your guild will drop. 4 I explain later. I think it seems more unreasonable than it actually is.
“Completely gut”? Curious. We talked about that new media proposal. It didn’t seem based on “distributor’s gross” at all. It was pretty much just an escalating % of the minimum script fee for the first year and/ or (depending on feature or type of tv distribution) with 2.5% of producer’s “accountable receipts” thereafter. For ad-based tv streaming, we assumed the escalating % based on the script fee was where the money was (and, more to the point, protection against the possible future) and not the 2.5%, so what he said just doesn’t make sense (nor does the fact that the AMPTP had to list it in the Ultimatum). Where is this coming from? Either there is something going on (new definition of “accountable receipts?”…as Brian made reference to) or this entire point doesn’t exist (ploy perhaps?). However, I have to believe there is something to this when the AMPTP and WGA (by way of this statement from David Goodman) both agree that this is an essential issue. In fact, maybe THE essential point by way of deduction, since Goodman focuses only on this point (no 3 from my list above) and point no 4 (dealt with next).
Specificity is needed. Frankly, you can audit the studio’s books and see the license fee from say ABC Studios to ABC. It seems to me that neither side wants the fee to be fixed, but the difference is on who determines what’s fair. The audit system places the burden (and cost) on the WGA to prove the Studios aren’t getting a “fair market value” from their sister Network. Sorry, but I think the burden should be on the WGA. Why should all of the Studios accept the notion that they are liars just because some of them are (nor should you just “trust them” and hence the audit right)? But I have to admit, baring some specifics that show differently, that this is a tougher pill to swallow and I respect if you all feel uncomfortable with this.
Does it mean anything that he only raised these 2 of the 4? The first of which (no 3) is pretty much an obvious non-starter in that it totally reshapes the whole idea of residuals…much in the same way the first AMPTP “rollback” proposal did.
First, the only thing worse than quoting Finke is cherry picking Finke.
Ultimatum. Ok. Agreed. The AMPTP is bringing this to a head. Cheap trick? I don’t know. I pretty much hate it when either side postures. And I’ve disagreed with girlwriter on this plenty.
Who’s trying to divide and conquer again? OK. Bad AMPTP. Bad WGA. Both of you in your corner’s for 5 minutes. Girlwriter…tell em to chill.
Anyway, $250 is really shitty…but it’s not “THEY STILL HAVEN’T GIVEN US ANYTHING AT ALL” shitty.
And, yes, the AMPTP is trying to make the WGA leadership look like that. Possibly because they believe it is that way and/or possibly as a negotiating strategy. Either way, the writers can look at that list (and the WGA leadership’s reaction to it) and look at the AMPTP’s last offer and make the judgments themselves. Don’t think it matters much if, in the end, the AMPTP was successful because it was “right” or “clever.” Especially since they already sold their soul to the devil, right?
Wow, I didn’t even know I was trying to scare you. But I will again point out that ‘scab’ is one of the filthiest words you can hurl at a union man — and whatever differences I have with Patrick, he’s a union man and has my respect for that.
Let me be clear: I think the AMPTP has now shown that its current motivation is to try to get the most financiallly favorable deal it can get for itself (fairness be damned) and, perhaps as importantly, to show David Young that he’s not going to be able to single-handedly restore Hollywood to the status of union town (which I believe truly is one of his personal motivations). I think it’s proper to tell the AMPTP that, whatever their ulterior motives, the fact is that the only place to resolve the strike is at the bargaining table.
Don’t cede any of the AMPTP’s six non-starter points without an equal and reciprocal concession of WGA non-starter points. Don’t cede the most important (to the WGA) of the AMPTP’s non-starter points, but offer to negotiate their final form. If the no-strike clause ultimately has to stay, maybe a conscience clause can be added to soften it. If one proposal for independent verfication of no self-dealing is unacceptable, negotiate another that is.
It will be hard to shame the AMPTP back to the bargaining table, but that will have to be part of the process.
AMPTP Stooge, I will differ with you on this point. An audit won’t reveal whether ABC Studios and ABC created a sweetheart deal to benefit their mutual parent. The audit may verify that no dollars flowed from ABC to ABC Studios to pay for streaming rights — but it won’t show that because of that, Disney made more profit than if the streaming rights had been market-priced and the WGA been allowed to deduct the writers’ share.
There has to be a mechanism to prevent both direct self-dealing and an industrywide collusive deal that rules out any payments for streaming rights in order that all of the big nine parent companies of the AMPTP avoid paying the writers’ share.
Of course Craig doesn’t believe that. Whether he’ll admit it or not is a different story.
Anyone who does truly believe it is making the mistaken assumption of ascribing human behavioral patterns to a non-human entity.
The AMPTP is going to do WHATEVER it takes it get what they want, regardless of who gets hurt, regardless of the ethical implications. This is its fundamental nature.
If tomorrow, the AMPTP discovers a computerized-slave-monkey that shits word-turds to dazzle and amuse the audience in between SUV commercials, they’d slam the door on us immediately and never look back.
Good faith? Hah!
Boy was that “Reality Rally” not so smart. Nor was that quote by Patrick…the one that amounts to “we are serious about reality jurisdiction.”
We all agree on that right?
One of the negative affects, if not the primary negative affect, is that it gave the AMPTP a stinkball to toss at our own members.
I know two writers who have been shaken by the idea that our guild may indeed be striking over reality as well as new media.
Does anyone believe we are serious about reality? (Please say no)
Has only NOW shown? When hasn’t it shown that? When hasn’t it trumpeted it from every rooftop?
Come on. You can’t possibly be this naive.
No. It’s a bargaining chip with which to negotiate for the things we REALLY want. Which is what makes the AMPTP ultimatum yesterday all the more disingenuous. They know it’s a bargaining chip. They’re trying to strip the WGA of all its leverage BEFORE they’ll agree to sit back down at the table — so that the only thing we have left to give concessions on are the things we really, really want, but by then the AMPTP will have all the leverage! Brilliant, yes?
It won’t. Probably more like 5 or 6 months. We don’t know how long the AMPTP will allow the strike to continue because we don’t know what their projections are for new media profit in the coming years.
I imagine their side must have come up with some pretty big numbers, though, or they wouldn’t have forced a strike at all. In the long run, if the AMPTP loses several billion dollars in a 6 month strike, but they stand to gain five or six times that in the coming years by ass-fucking the unions, then it will have been worth it to them.
Anyone remember the internal Ford memo on the faulty Pinto design? This is the one that said Ford knew about the design flaw (on side impacts, the Pinto’s engine had a tendency to blow up). Ford had weighed the overall costs of a massive recall against the overall costs of all the wrongful death lawsuits that were sure to follow … and determined that the wrongful death expenditures would cost the company LESS than a massive recall. So, they decided to do nothing.
Brrr….
This is the exact same type mentality were up against. Don’t think for a minute we’re not.
I have no background in this area, but I wonder, would it be feasable to set some sort of floor on license fee value in self-dealing for the purposes of residual calculation? Of course, the AMPTP would want the floor to be $1, but maybe this is another way of attacking the problem. Or is that exactly what the AMPTP is refusing to do by turning down the ‘market value’ concept?
What the guild has asked for was a traditional labor management resolution to the issues of new media. Now they’ve got it and they are complaining…crying like a drunk in a bar who picked a fight and is now getting his ass kicked. There were many people who said “don’t pick the fight…do something else more productive with your time.” But no, the little punk wanted to show how tough he was so he went up the big guy in the bar and punched him in the nose. There were so many other options available to the guild but they didn’t want to hear about them, didn’t want to even consider them. They wanted to prove how tough they are. It doesn’t matter what’s on the table, it’s about who’s going to be flat on their back, out cold, and lying under the table. The horn honking picket signs are already old news and looking a little sad. Big rallies with unemployed shills from other unions aren’t going to impress people who can’t pay their bills. The best solution would be to negotiate a one year extentions of the old MBA, can Patric and David and the Neg Com…and start from scratch.
United Hollywood just posted an email from the S-A-D rally folks. It seems that they would prefer WGA members not attend the rally:
Well, at least now we can finally put to rest the notion that the Strike-A-Deal folks are non-partisan. It was only ever a thinly-veiled attempt on their part to pretend otherwise, anyway.
The AMPTP is blatantly refusing to negotiate with the WGA now.
The WGA never left the table.
And they don’t want the WGA to come to their rally … why, exactly?
Their logic escapes me entirely.
Stooges, pure and simple.
KristenR
That is too bad. I will not be attending this rally if the organizers refuse to see that this is a union vs studio issue. What a missed opportunity.
I don’t see what’s wrong with putting more demands back on the table.
Coz the WGA took important demands off the table, and what did they get offered in return?
Next to nothing.
If the AMPTP is going to offer ’1% of what you have, PS: FU’ low-balls, the WGA may as well counter with ‘we want everything unionized’ high-balls.
When it puts out a press release touting the New Economic Partnership and $130 million in new compensation for writers, and the story gets picked up in every media outlet.
Pretty hard to make that story fly at this point.
I believe that David Young is deadly serious about reality. I suspect that Patric Verrone is as well, and even more so about animation. I base that belief on Young’s background as a garment workers union organizer and on Verrone’s background as an animation writer.
I don’t know whether anyone else on the WGA Negotiating Committee feels quite the same way as those two do.
I’ll toss out a general question:
Do any of you WGA writers believe that Reality shows exist which really, for all practical purposes, don’t have writers?
I know some of them are scripted, and I’ve even spoken to a gentleman who wrote for Top Model on a picket line, but I was wondering if the WGA could, at some point, choose to focus on trying to organize the more-scripted shows and leave the less-scripted shows alone, instead of saying ‘We either unionize them all or we stay on strike’ – which makes for a good bargaining threat but probably isn’t a realistic, achievable goal.
I do believe this young buck has got it right, except for the Red Sox part:
From unitedhollywood.com The Ol’ AMPTP Mindf*ck™ Has anyone noticed a pattern in the last couple weeks’ worth of negotiations?
Monday is energetic and everyone’s buoyed by the residual anger from the way last week ended. Tuesday there’s a sense that they’re “really talking.” But by Wednesday, there’s a creeping sense that nothing good is actually happening.
And on Thursday, the companies do the AMPTP Mindf*ck™.
First, it was the New Economic Partnership. This week it’s “we’re going to take our marbles and go home. Which means you can’t play because we own all the marbles.”
As all military thriller writers know, these tactics are known as psy-ops, or psychological operations designed to weaken the enemy’s will to fight. The AMPTP Mindf*ck™ happens just in time to ensure a jolly weekend of Christmas shopping with your children. Too bad little Timmy will cry unless you turn your back on your principles and get him the new DVD of “Transformers.” And it’s heartbreaking to have to get a smaller tree this year.
We can look forward to more of this in the weeks to come. Each successive move will aim to hit a little harder, each intended to drive a wedge between various groups within the Guild membership as well as between the membership and the negotiating committee. TV writers vs. feature writers. Upper class vs. middle class. David Young vs. freedom, milk, and clean air.
If we stick together and keep picketing — and maintain our poise and our sense of humor — these tactics will continue to fail. At some point the large institutional investors who own gobs of stock in the companies are going to say, “Like hell you’re going to torpedo two seasons of television. We are not going to stand by and watch you lose a billion dollars so you can save one hundred and fifty million.”
At that point, the real bargaining will begin. But the AMPTP Mindf*ck™ will continue. Look forward to the day when they make a proposal that’s not very good for most writers but would be good enough for some key members of the negotiating committee. That’s when they’ll get their new PR firm — you know, the ones who handled Bill Clinton’s “Monica Problem”, and helped spin for a company sued for poisoning its workers who were then fired for complaining about it — to tell the world that certain “crazy idealists” and “bitter militants” (i.e., Patric Verrone and David Young) are destroying this industry.
So be prepared, and recognize it for what it is. They want strike fatigue to set in, so we take a sub-par deal just to feel the relief of being done with the AMPTP Mindf*ck™.
Resist strike fatigue. Resist the AMPTP Mindfck™. Because, let’s face it, once we go back to work, it’s back to the Development Mindfck, and the Late Payment Mindfck, and the Didn’t Your Agent Tell You We Found Another Writer? Mindfck.
See you on the picket line Monday.
Go Sox.
Lovelyandamazing,
I agree with a lot of what you write. I hope our leadership isn’t being passive, hoping that the wedge won’t happen. They need to be actively talking too “factions” now. There are a lot of people who have a lot of valid “issues” with how some aspects of this strike have been handled. For instance: the reality rally. I’m not gonna say it was right or wrong, but I will say that there are valid points as to why it might not have been a smart idea.
So, as time passes, and a possibly long strike becomes more of a reality, the emphasis, to me, should be on reaching out to people and preempting the inevitable wedge.
To me, picketing needs to be adjusted. It’s gonna wain. And since we know it’s gonna wain, why not take control?
Said it once, but I’ll say it again: change the way we picket. I like the idea of once a week pickets. Big turnouts once a week is sexy. I also heard someone suggest we forego picketing for “community service.” Another excellent idea.
Perhaps a better time to hold the reality rally would have been after the new contract was concluded, especially if the WGA wins a good deal. Then it would be easier to get across the message to unrepresented reality writers that the WGA can get things done for them.
Absolutely correct. Strike fatigue is the biggest upcoming challenge to the WGA. The strike is the key to the leverage the WGA holds in the new contract negotiations, and losing that leverage will severely diminish (if not erase) the chances of the WGA winning any of its goals in the new contract.
Let’s say we’re playing poker. Regardless of anything else, here’s two absolute facts:
1. The house rules say, I can use my car as a bet, but only if you agree I can use my car as a bet.
2. You don’t want my car.
This means, I can put my pink slip on the table to cover a bet, and if you say “Yeah, no, I refuse to accept your car as a bet,” then that’s it. From that point forward, my pink slip might as well as be a drink coaster.
No matter how valuable my car is to me, its not a bargaining chip if you its not valuable to you.
And that is exactly where we are in regards to all of our jurisdictional demands, including reality jurisdiction. All of ‘em.
House rules — ie, federal law — say that jurisdiction is not a mandatory topic for bargaining. Unions can make jurisdictional demands, but if management says “Yeah, no, jurisdiction is not a topic for bargaining,” then that’s it.
No matter how valuable our demands for jurisdiction may be to us, now that the AMPTP has made absolutely and unmistakably clear that they will not bargain on jurisdiction in this negotiation, those demands are not bargaining chips.
They are drink coasters.
And that means that, as of Friday, the primary purpose of this strike has become, using something that actually is of value to the AMPTP — our work stoppage — to force the AMPTP to accept drink coasters as bargaining chips.
Ted, it’s even more dysfunctional that that. What the WGA is doing is demanding that the AMPTP put the pink slip of its reality and animation car on the table. In other words, the AMPTP has something the WGA wants — reality and animation jurisdiction — and the AMPTP says, “sorry, but I am not putting that on the table — not required to, not going to, and not going to resume play until you stop demanding that I put that on the table.” And if it’s not on the table, it’s not a bargaining chip, it’s an empty demand.
If the WGA really, really thinks that reality and animation jurisdiction is something it needs to win in this negotiation, it can hold out for it until the AMPTP decides to put it on the table. Not sure, however, whether that’s really a winning strategy, given the other economic issues at stake. Most likely, it will simply give the AMPTP an excuse to stay away from the table in hopes that the WGA membership becomes weary and loses its stamina.
lovelyandamazing,
That’s a great post.
It’s from Unitedhollywood.com, right?
Well, so much for “wishful thinking” trumping “reality as set by law”.
Sigh.
No one should say that Young or Varrone or Nick Counter or Les Moonves or you or I are crazy. We all work from our own self-interest, be it as writers, producers, executives, etc.
As I’ve said before, I think Young and Varrone are hoplessly incompetent. What were they doing putting reality and animation back on the table in the first place? If I were the AMPTP, I would insist on the WGA putting things in writing as well, since we seem to renege on things we’ve already agreed to.
Young and Verrone are egomaniacs, convinced that they are going to turn the tide of the entire anti-union movement that has been going on, oh, since the 1890′s.
They aren’t.
John Bowman is just as bad. What was his “I’m not going to go down in history as the Negotiating Committee chair who lost China, er, the strike.”
What???
Does ANYONE remember who was the negotiating chair in ANY Guild negotiation?
Hey, John, screw your ego. I’ve got bills to pay.
What this leadership has done is put the entire WGA in jeopardy. What’s left? The DGA makes a deal, probably the same deal on Internet that we just rejected (which sucks, yeah, I know, but in this town, sadly, might, or perceived might, makes right). Then we either take that deal or keep on striking. At THAT point, it’s all up to the showrunners — if they’re willing to strike into June, then we strike into June.
Unless the WGA breaks apart.
I have been in this union 30 years. I thought Naomi Guerian, whose incompetence cost us the gross DVD residual that we all mourn (as we should — it is sad we lost it and it is, assuredly, lost).
This leadership is much worse. They are gambling that just because we are “right,” we will win.
That their egos matter more than the membership.
Shame on them. And shame on anyone who continues to support them.
I believe the period of highest union membership was the 1950s – not the 1890s.
c.f.otto,
FWIW, if I’m remembering Verrone’s reality rally speech correctly, he said that reality was never off the table. He said the AMPTP lied about the WGA dropping it. That way, they could pretend to get all bent out of shape about it when the WGA brought it up again. I’ll leave it to someone else to verify that. At any rate, Verrone did seem pretty adamant that reality would be part of any new contract the WGA accepted.