How To Get There From Here
Posted by Craig Mazin on 10 Dec 2007 at 12:03 am | Tagged as: WGA Issues
Negotiations between the AMPTP and the WGA are over.
They’re not permanently over, but let’s steal a page from William Goldman and call them “mostly dead.” That’s what our “here” is right now.
Our here is nowhere. We’re on strike, there are no talks scheduled, the companies have presented an unacceptable, regressive proposal that they know is unacceptable and regressive, and we have precious few cards left to play.
Ah, and then there’s the issue of the DGA.
So, what’s “there?” There is where we have an acceptable, signed contract.
Patric Verrone believes the answer to getting there from here is to stay the course. Whatever got us to this point is what we ought to keep doing. Unity, faith in leadership, picketing, rallies, a steadfast resolve to maintain our current proposals…oh, and no dissent, please.
This issue of dissent is a tricky one, and I have to give Patric credit for managing to find a new way to discredit anyone who disagrees with him. The meme is simple. Disagreeing with Patric is what the companies want you to do, and the companies are greedy jerks. Ergo, agree with Patric or you’re a company-loving jerk.
Or as he puts it:
We will not fall for their “divide and conquer” tricks designed to separate Guild leadership from membership, members from one another, writers from our supporters, and truth from innuendo.Hmmm. But, and I know, it’s crazy…what if you think the companies are wrong and greedy and selfish and unfair AND you think Patric is wrong too? What if you’ve honestly considered his strategy, rejected all “tricks” and PR and spin…and still come to the conclusion that his strategy is flawed?
Keep your mouth shut?
Nah.
Discuss it with him? Write him an email?
Done that a few times. Not much effect.
Look, these things have to be talked about, and they must be discussed in the open. I’m doing my own version of back-room muttering (there are many, many things I do not write about in here…I’m not a journalist looking to publish scoops…I’m a writer looking to influence policy in my union, as is my right), but there are some things that need to be spoken out loud in order to influence and persuade. Yes, I’m trying to influence and persuade. Yes, I think my perspective and the perspective of those that think like me is one that’s more likely to get us a deal we can accept. You may agree or disagree. Nonetheless, neither you nor I nor any dues-paying member of the WGA has a responsibility to silence and complicity if we think there’s a better way of approaching things.
Patric is a smart guy and a nice guy, but he’s not the Oracle at Delphi. There may be a better way. And if we share a common goal, which is to elicit as much money as possible from the companies, then we owe it to ourselves to talk about how to get there. If we can’t share in a community of open, sunshine-through-the-windows debate, then bad stuff is going to fester. I know that some of my fellow writers think I’m a bad guy. That I want to foment rebellion.
I sure as hell don’t. I want the opposite (and the thought of any Union Blues style fissure in the membership deeply concerns me…I’m the loyal opposition, not the “screw you, I’m holding a gun to your head so I can get back to work” opposition). I want exactly what Patric wants, in a way. I want unity, I want progress, I want a good deal…I just think that his way ain’t working. In fact, I think his way is hurting us now, and hurting us in a fashion that could leave permanent scars.
Will that statement give comfort and aid to the AMPTP?
The greedy, rapacious, vindictive, disrespectful, deceitful, amoral-when-they’re-not-immoral, conniving and imperious AMPTP?
Gee, I hope not. If they feel like linking back to my remarks, 50,000 people are gonna get a faceful of what I think about them, and as you can see, it’s not particularly warm and fuzzy.
Still, we have to make a deal with them, warts and all. That’s something Patric and I agree on.
Let’s talk about how we might be able to get there.
But First, Why Are We Here?
An important question.
When you talk to members of the Negotiating Committee, they will tell you, regardless of their relative militancy or moderation, that the AMPTP was generally unrepentent. They pulled fast ones, lied, stonewalled, and ultimately stood their ground with an offer that is, essentially, contemptuous.
Why?
Here are the possibilities.
This offer is their actual bottom line, and they would rather watch the town go up in flames than budge from it.
This offer is merely the opener, and a better, smarter group of negotiators on our side would have been able to get them off of it and closer to something acceptable.
This offer is a red herring designed to distract us from their real position, which is that they don’t want to make a deal with our union at this time.
I think possibility #2 isn’t likely. Regardless of David Young’s inexperience in these matters, there are too many smart and temperate people in that room. Tony Segall, John Bowman and quite a few others are well-versed in the fine art of negotiation and diplomatic derring-do. Believe me, if I thought our NegCom was just a bunch of dummies, I’d say so (I know, big shock). They’re not. They’re smart men and women. So…
Possibility #1? Nah. I think we can reject that one out of hand, not only because their last proposal was the first of its general format, but also because they didn’t even bother to call it their “last, best and final” offer, which is one requirement to attempt to get the NLRB to declare an impasse and allow management to unilaterally impose that deal on our union whether we agree to it or not (Did you know that could happen? Well, just another thing to keep you up at night.).
So let’s consider #3. They didn’t want to make a deal. And why not?
Few reasons why. From 2005 to the start of our negotiations, the companies watched in growing anger as we attacked their advertisers and executives with a corporate campaign, interfered with their product integration plans by traveling to Europe to lobby against laws that would allow it in content, filed overtime lawsuits against the companies that provided them with reality programming, sponsored groups of reality employees who barged in on their conferences in protest and fomented a strike at America’s Next Top Model, all in an effort to organized reality employees…in an effort to improve our strike threat.
We failed miserably in that goal, but not before really pissing them off.
After two years of this, I suspect the companies arrived at one or all of the following conclusions.
Patric and David Young are crazy, and we can’t make an acceptable deal with crazy people.
Patric and David Young must be punished for what they’ve done, because if we don’t punish them, they’re going to keep acting like this, and maybe SAG will get some kooky ideas in their heads too.
Patric and David Young will never accept our actual bottom line, which is the deal we will never offer better than.
Mind you, I’m talking about how they think. Patric and David aren’t crazy. And using negotiations to punish a union for strident activity is, well, probably cutting off one’s corporate nose to spite one’s face.
However, if they came to believe that we would never take their bottom line, well…the AMPTP does have options. They don’t have to bargain with us. They may have decided to smack us around like a red-headed stepchild as a warning to the DGA and SAG (“Don’t let this be you!”). The obvious strategic implications are one reason why I hope the DGA and SAG don’t allow themselves to be intimidated by the way our negotiations have fallen apart.
Or maybe they just figure that the DGA will accept their bottom line, so why bother with us?
Regardless, it’s not too late. Using the aforementioned as basic assumptions about the nature of the now, let’s think about how to reclaim a little self-determination here.
A New Goal
Prior to the collapse, our goal was simply to get a good contract.
Now, post-collapse, it should be to negotiate our own contract before the DGA does it for us.
Once the DGA sets a rate, pattern bargaining and common strategic sense tells me that this will be the rate, come hell, high water, brimstone, nuclear explosions or anything else we or SAG might throw their way. I know our side has announced loudly that they won’t take any old deal the DGA makes, but I’m here to tell you that if the deal locks in a formula…
…it’s over.
So, let’s talk about what it might take to get us back to the table, and get the AMPTP off their bullshit proposal.
For starters, we need to stop obsessing over this nonsense phrase “we can’t negotiate with ourselves!” It’s meaningless. If you create a set of demands, and the other side refuses those demands, what are you going to do? Hold your breath for a year? Of course not. You have to evaluate your demands, and remove some while maintaining your leveraged threat against the other side.
In this case, our strongest leveraged threat is gone. The WGA is never as strong as it is right before a strike. Once we struck, we fired the big but sole bullet in our gun. It hit them, they flinched a bit, but they’re definitely still on their feet. So now what?
Time to get dramatic.
First, let me say that I’m operating under an assumption that we cannot “outlast” the companies. There are a few writers out there who think that if we strike long enough…perhaps a year or two years or twenty years…we will destroy the companies, or bring them to their knees.
This will not happen. Ever.
These companies do not have knees.
We’re dealing with nearly a trillion dollars in market capitalization. Unlike 1988, when we struck for 5 months, they have more options to bolster their schedules. The very libraries we want to get more of a piece of are the things that keep them afloat even when the pipelines run dry. As one studio chairman told me a few years ago, “The only way to reliably make money in this business is to have a library, and to not produce new material.”
Some writers think the shareholders will rise in revolt.
They will not.
The shareholders that matter are the large institutional investors with major positions in the big congloms. If you think they weren’t told about the AMPTP strategy, positions and bottom lines long before we ever got the news, I’d suggest you’re wrong. I think those investors know exactly what the companies are doing, and I think they love it.
Investors, as a rule, HATE labor unions and tend to revolt against companies who are too soft on unions. Not too hard.
Okay. So…
We waited until late in the game to negotiate. They didn’t move. We threatened a strike. They didn’t move. We threatened Teamster support. They didn’t move. We got the showrunners to walk out entirely. They didn’t move. We staged huge rallies and had well-organized pickets at every studio in town. They didn’t move.
Now what?
Now it’s time to dramatically reduce all of our demands down to the only one that matters, in an attempt to wrest this negotiation back to our union and away from the DGA.
What We Shouldn’t Be Asking For Any More
Let’s start with an easy one. We’re asking that we have the right to sympathy strike when other unions go on strike.
Uh huh.
Riiiiight.
Look, let’s put aside that no Hollywood union has had that right in the last fifty years. Why in God’s green earth would the companies agree to this? They already think we’re strike-happy as it is. Will they willingly make it worse?
The reason this is still on the table is because Patric believes, I think, that we need to remake ourselves in the image of more aggressive trade unions like SEIU.
We don’t.
Ain’t gonna happen, and if dumping that is a prerequisite for discussions, we should dump it.
Next, we’re asking for jurisdiction over animation.
Most of what they companies say is calculated horseshit, but they’ve kinda got us on this one. IATSE has jurisdiction over theatrical animation…and that’s when it’s union at all. Like Patric, I’m a member of IATSE Animation Guild Local 839. Like Patric, I find their contract to be inferior to ours. Unlike Patric, I’m not willing to throw a few more strikers on the fire in a bizarre attempt to undo everything that labor law compels. IATSE owns that space, we don’t, game over, move on.
And then there’s the question of reality television.
I admit it.
I thought he was faking.
Let me rephrase.
I thought Patric was willing to organize reality inasmuch as reality workers could serve as a strike wedge against us, but I didn’t think he’d be willing to pull the pin on that particular grenade and drop it down our collective pants.
On Friday, Patric apparently said that we (that’s all of us in the WGAw and WGAE) won’t accept any contract that doesn’t grant us jurisdiction over reality writers. I say “apparently” because I wasn’t at the Fremantle Rally, but I got this one from about seven different writers (at least one of whom is a Patric supporter), and it was reported in the media as well.
So let’s stipulate that he said it, and he believes it.
That’s just nuts.
First, by the rules governing labor-management negotiations, the AMPTP doesn’t have to address issues of jurisdiction at all. They can simply say “not talking about it,” and if we insist that it be addressed, then we’re the ones negotiating in bad faith (and there are consequences). Second, we’ve been whomping on this one for over two years now, and the horse isn’t just dead…it’s a finely-misted goo by now. Third…
…and this is the one that kills me…
…the very reality writers Patric wishes to strike for are the same people who are currently and actively undermining our strike.
Yeah.
I’m editing my movie in an office building that hosts a good number of reality productions.
Place is a frickin’ beehive.
So the deal is that we spend millions to organize reality employees, we expend any goodwill we had with the companies to do it, we get nothing out of it, the reality employees steadfastly refuse to walk out of their jobs en masse, they continue to work merrily away while we go on strike, thus reducing the efficacy of said strike…and we’re supposed to keep striking for them?
Hell to the no.
We need to drop the reality demand now. It’s a loser.
What’s Left
Residual rates for reuse in New Media, and jurisdiction over original work for New Media.
Those are the biggies. Everything else should go.
Let’s focus on the stuff that matters.
How We Can Rescue This
First, let’s embrace a fact.
Fact: everything that we thought would have a positive impact on the companies has, in fact, not helped us in any important way.
Not unity, not picketing, not rallies, not positive PR, nothing.
That’s not to say that unity and picketing aren’t important. I don’t discount the positive feelings writers have taken away from the last month. That feeling of community and action is surely real.
But it’s a feeling. And you can’t fill those green residuals envelopes with feelings.
Somewhere along the line, we got suckered into a strange rhetoric, by which the means of the strike actions became the end. Our communications marked our “victories” in measures of rally attendance, picket attendance, positive PR, support from actors…
…but none of that is goal material. It’s “try and get you your goal” material. The truth is that we can’t claim any real victory yet, because we haven’t had any real victory yet.
But we can.
First, I think we should probably stop picketing. It didn’t work. I don’t think that’s going to change, and there’s that old saw about repeating the same thing and expecting different results. That’s not to say that we should stop acting as a community. There are other ways we can support each other through a difficult strike. Picketing is one of them, but it’s not a particularly efficient use of our time or our energy. Will the companies view this as “weakness?” Who cares? What, they’re going to make an even worse offer? No. Far better to continue to promote our best and brightest and most successful as consistently backing the strike.
I’ve always said, our union’s strength isn’t in its quantity, but its quality. Our best show of strength is not a turnout of 4,000 members of our union, but a turnout of 400 of our most coveted members. Those are the writers the companies fear losing, and those are the writers the companies hope will turn coat.
Second, we need to get some influence peddlers to help us.
Much has been made of the companies’ decision to hire some of the brightest and most effective influence peddlers in the business (some people call them “PR” people, but that’s too simplistic when you’re talking about individuals who can get Hillary Clinton or George W. Bush on the phone). I happen to know that our leadership was approached weeks ago about hiring a similarly powerful influence peddler to help them bring real political pressure to bear on the companies (YouTube videos are great and popular, but something tells me you need to sit in Henry Waxman’s office and scare him a little before he decides to bring some real pain).
Our leadership said, “No, not interested.”
They should get reinterested immediately. There’s no shame in getting help. We’re writers. We all have agents. Our Guild needs an agent right now, and badly.
Third, we need some new people on our side. Specifically, we need dissenters. Loyal opposition. Our room seems to be a bit too bubbly. My experience with leadership was that they were disinterested in bad news, overvalued good news, and hated to “think like the companies.”
That was a big one with them. “Why should we have to think like the companies? That’s our problem! We think too much like the companies! We should think like a union!”
Yes. This is true. But the purpose of thinking like the companies isn’t to be them, but to anticipate their responses and exploit their weaknesses. We need more writers in that room who disagree with the strategy-to-date, if for no other reason than it hasn’t worked.
By the way, this isn’t me asking for the gig. I don’t belong in that room for a lot of reasons. But others do, and I think recomposing the NegCom at this juncture is a smart idea. We need fresh horses who aren’t saddled with the emotional baggage of the last year.
Finally, we need a real dialogue with the DGA. Yes, I know…easier said than done. And sure, maybe they’re the enemy of a good deal. If so, keep your friends close and your enemies closer. Finding a power-broker who can bridge the gap between the unions might be part of the equation. Perhaps a lawyer, or a universally-respected hyphenate (Steve Zaillian, I’m thinking of you…).
Now, maybe none of this will happen, and we’ll continue to paddle into the wind. But I’m an optimist. There’s still a chance to get things back on track. Our leadership may have to swallow a little pride, but pride’s easier to swallow than failure.
And failure is what I’m desperately hoping we can avoid.


I posted this comment on the previous thread about a millisecond before Craig put this one up. Reposting here with minor modification because this is a better place for it, and because you guys don’t read old threads.
Finally, the stooge has been banned! I was so tired of reading his answers to every damn post put up (paid asshole gone and not a moment too soon). I feel like dorthy after the house fell on the WWotW.
I’m not going to get into what I think the negcomm should have done. However, I largely agree with Craig’s post here. Still, there’s no question that the slophogs want the strike to go on a bit longer. I was told 2 weeks ago by a very high level friend that the strike would last long enough for a lot of house cleaning to occur under force majeure.
Here’s what I really want to say – While I do think the negcomm needs to pull a couple of key items from the table and keep them off (an opinion clearly long held and often repeated by craig) I’m not sure it would change the situation as of today that much. The slophogs figure on pushing us around, and they’re surely going to test the DGA before giving an inch to WGA – BUT that being said, I think we as writers have been looking at our role in the industry our of our sphincters for a long time. AND I think adjusting this view is the key to making AMPTP shit their collective pants.
So here goes. What if our beloved WGA just announced that there is a new contract and declared the stike over? What if the contract was fair, the sort of thing we would expect to end up with at the end of fair negotioation, and we said any writer can go to work under this new contract right away. What if we started allowing any company to sign this contract and start hiring writers? What if we allowed all writers to go back to work for ANY company provided it was under the new contract. What if we started renewing agents and signatories under the new contract. AND what if we all started opening companies and putting out the call for private investment under the new contract. Sounds CRAZY, I know, but there are a good 30 or 40 elephant writers around, we all know who they are – but just for example if Ted and Terry put out a new project under their own banner, or if they did a contract with a partner (producer) who had signed the new contract, I can guarantee you, someone would show up with money interested in moving forward, foriegn distributors would write letters of credit, directors would jump in line, And ulitmately, someone with a TON of money, would step up and want to distribute it.
My point is this, we’ve got to quit thinking in terms of, “Will AMPTP be able to break us” and we’ve got to start thinking in terms of, “How do we break them”. In this new age they don’t have to control things, they just think they do and we go along because we don’t normally think of ourselves as business people. But,WE create the product. We don’t have to sell it to them, but we have to be willing to move forward with exploting its value ourselves, and quit thinking of ourselves as hired guns. I can tell you all for damn sure that many of these producers and mogals don’t work much, they have an entitlment system (also called a daisy chain) that basically allows them to make money by being in the club. Thus, there are tons of very good executives (the guys who do all the work) who would love to run a company for an A-list writer.
So, anyway, I’m not going to go on all night here. I think you get the jist. Just remember two things – AMPTP only has the long end of the stick, so long as we think in terms of them having the long end of the stick. – and – How do we stop thinking in terms of keeping them from breaking us, and start thinking in terms of breaking them.
This strike is over when writer’s say it’s over. It can be on our terms any time we like.
And yes, feel free to call me crazy.
Craig — Bravo! Very well thought out and much appreciated (at least from moi).
I’ve found the blinding support for the strike esp odd given that writers are suppose to be of the suspicious/ cynical ilk. At least I am and I’ve been really pissed about the neg strategy thus far. I spent many years working at the studio (as my day-job) and you hear a lot if so & so “gets it.” And that’s everything. If “you get it,” then the studio will play ball a bit more fairly. Not focusing on tangible goals and clinging to lost battles (anim/reality) = not getting it. Thanks for pointing all this out so eloquently and coming up with some possible solutions.
P.S. Hope you get quoted a lot in the press! (hello priya).
Craig,
While I agree with some of the points you make here, I find a great deal of your thoughts to be incredibly wrong-headed and panicky, along with fear-mongering, defeatist, and counter-productive.
I take you at your word that your desire to see a fair WGA contract successfully achieved is a sincere one, but I also think it’s apparent your thinking has long been clouded by a deep personal animosity towards Patric Verrone which you can’t seem to get past. I think you’re continuing to fight an old battle with him and you can’t even admit it to yourself.
First of all, it’s insane to declare that the Negotiating Committee has failed because we don’t have substantial movement after a mere five weeks of striking. Most people knew going into this that the AMPTP was not going to give us a good deal quickly. Most people realized that this was probably going to be a fairly long strike, because the issues involved are huge. The complete transformation of our very business is taking place as we speak. The rules of the new game are being written now.
The 1960 strike, which achieved residuals, as well as our pension and health benefits, was extremely long and painful. This is a very similar, game-changing moment in time and our business, and as one person said at the pre-strike meeting at the Convention Center, we’re unlikely to prevail without “getting some blood in our mouths.” We now need to realize that just because we “play nice” with these congolmerates, doesn’t mean they will give us anything. Didn’t the fruitless dropping of our DVD demands show you that making concessions, without getting a concession at the same time in return, is both useless and self-destructive?
I think you’re totally wrong in asserting that the AMPTP companies are treating us badly because of animosity towards our leader’s behavior over the last couple of years.
This is about money, plain and simple. It always is. These companies see the switch to New Media as a paradigm shift which gives them the opportunity to sell their products while sharing a far smaller piece of the proceeds with creative talent than they do today. It’s a chance to improve their profitability by being able to define the distribution channel as that on which they have the least residuals burden. “That movie isn’t being streamed over cable or satellite, it’s coming to the TV sets through AMPTP Internet and we don’t owe you residuals on that. Advertisers, please line up to buy slots on our ‘promotional’ stream.”
They are not going to give up on this attempt until they severely test our mettle. If we are cowards, they will gleefully destroy us.
Furthermore, suggesting that we replace our leaders at this point is totally suicidal, would lead to the collapse of the strike, and the union itself. It’s totally your right to suggest it, and totally my right to say that we would be doomed if we followed that suggestion. In fact, I think it’s madness, once again inspired more by personal issues than logic. Whatever errors they may have made, we’re going to have to finish this dance with the dates that brought us.
The time will surely come to drop or modify some of our demands, but doing it now, in a panicky attempt to beg the companies back to the table quickly, would be utter folly. They would chortle at our display of weakness and move in for the kill the way predators always do.
They will negotiate with us when they’re good and ready. They have a plan and a schedule already worked out in their minds, and virtually nothing we do is going to get them to veer away from it. The rest of this is just a mind game. You fear corporate power so deeply that you are desperate to do anything not to throw down with it. But no bully ever stops taking your lunch money if you are afraid to fight, and even get a bloody nose. These corporations are not invincible. We can’t ‘bring them down’, but we can get a fair deal if we stand strong and unified and the voices of fear like yours don’t cause us to wither. The companies are in a fast-changing business undergoing a difficult transformation. The losses they will soon be incurring will not be worth it forever.
And why stop picketing? I fail to see any justification for that, except as an extension of your apparent theory that if we just press our lips to Nick Counter’s posterior hard enough, he’ll turn around and say he loves us. He won’t. He’ll just spin and kick us in the teeth. At the very least the picketing helps build the unity you threaten to destroy with your wild suggestions.
Stop thinking like a defeated and bitter member of the opposition, Craig. It’s you that need to swallow your pride, at long last, for all our sakes. This is going to be a long and painful battle. But if we’re unwilling to go the distance, we might as well just close the WGA right now. We have to stay united, strong, and determined. If we do, we’ll be okay.
Flickdog —
Why do we need another “long and painful battle” — this biz is one big long and painful battle! I got dropped from a top ten management company last year b/c my new feature spec protagonist was — female! It took me a year to recover and yup, the strike hit. We don’t need more battles in this sooo difficult/competitive/sexist/whatever — business. If you want a battle, fine — go for it. Plenty out there — go write a character driven film for a woman, that’s a start.
I want to f-ing work. Yes, I want to work with a fair, new contract but I don’t want to sit on my ass and wait another five months for my three new specs to go out. Oh and then I can be competing with A-list guys who’ve been bored and gone back ol skool and wrote a spec or two for fun – that’s gonna be super great for me (and others, lets not forget about them). So yeah, get back in the f-ing room, guys, and deal with reality (um, not the genre).
anonrighter,
This business has been brutal more most of us. And I understand that the timing stinks for you personally. But if we lose this battle, than it won’t be worth going through the trials and tribulations we have to go through in any case. The strike will last as long as the companies want it to, unless we just give in completely. I want to quote Craig now:
“…my guild hero is a guy named Howard Michael Gould.
Howard and I are friends, we’re political allies (for Guild stuff, at least), and he’s one of the most decent guys I know in this business.
Watch this video.”
I suggest you watch this again. Howard explains why we had no choice but to engage in this fight, and must stick with it until we win. Strangely, Craig seems to have momentarily forgotten these words which he praised so highly.”
I hope you’re okay when all of this is over, anonrighter. But frankly, this isn’t about you, or me, or any individual. It’s about the viable future of film and television writing as a profession for the forseeable future. Whether we have to stay out three months, or six, or more, is not really in our power. They won’t give us our due until they’ve tested our resolve. So we’d better get some!
BUT “the viable future of film and television writing as a profession for the forseeable future” is YOU, ME and EVERY INDIVIDUAL! I’m sorry, you seem like a really nice person, but this whole ’100%/ you’re with us or against us’ mentality is just so not real-world to me. Believe me, I can still be with that management company right now and have switched the character’s name from Janet to James and the piece would have gone out but I didn’t. So I get fighting for what’s right, but I also get doing it in the smartest, most strategic way possible (which is why the character now is a hermaphrodite).
And — this is important — esp as a writer, I think it’s vital to not demonize the other side and yes, try to understand it which is what I loved about Craig’s posting(s). And it’s also why I appreciated AMPTP Stooge. To me, he was offering a terrific service, a view into the antagonist’s POV — it was like we were slipped studio coverage and we all know how difficult that is to get.
Y’know, I’m guilty too — I love, love, love Air America and of course, NPR. So occasionally, my husband puts on FOX NEWS — I don’t even know the channel number, but anyway, he puts it on simply cause it’s important to understand the other side. I hate it, but he’s right.
p.s. Did watch the Howard Michael Gould video original posting. Not remembering much but tomorrow will check it out again per your suggestion (cause tired now). I think it’s important to realize that you can be supportive of the issues behind the strike (or most of ‘em) and mixed about the strategy or just have mixed feelings about the whole thing. I think nowadays that’s called an art film (y’know complex and, um, human). Okay, how patronizing do I sound — sorry , off to bedie-by-land and dreaming of my specs going out before I turn 90.
Craig -
I normally do not agree with a lot of what you’ve had to say about the strike, but with this latest post, I could not agree with you more.
One question I have that maybe you can shed some light on – for a while you’ve said the DGA could swoop in and make a deal and then that’s something the WGA will have to settle for. But last week Carl Gottlieb spoke at CBS Radford and mentioned that the DGA’s contract would have no effect one way or another on the WGA contract.
And, if the DGA doesn’t tie up the AMPTP to work on their deal, how soon do you guess the WGA and AMPTP would get back together?
The WGA membership has to stop thinking about this in terms of what’s fair and instead start thinking about relative strengths and weaknesses. For the studios this is strictly business. Profit and loss.
No doubt studios stand to make the big money off of the ancillary sales of popular episodic productions, but it’s not the only way. Cops (a show born out of the 1988 WGA strike) is still on the air because it is profitable.
These companies exist to generate profit for shareholders. Period. If the studios honestly feel that the residual structure proposed by the WGA (and by extension to all other guilds and unions) is untenable, then they will find a different way to make a profit.
There will be a settlement when an equilibrium is reached between the AMPTP and WGA’s relative strengths. If it really comes down to it do the members of the WGA feel so strongly about the internet residuals that they would literally prefer to never write for a studio again rather than go forward with out it? If the answer is yes, then the strike is worth it. If answer is no then I suggest the strike was ill advised.
Wow.
That was LONG.
Wow.
That’s dialog from Debbie Does the Dallas Mavericks.
Craig,
You say repeatedly that the companies have not moved, and that the strike has not yet resulted in any tangible victories.
In fact, we had two victories during the most recent round of talks, both related to what you’ve identified as the critical core of our demands, both of which did involve the companies moving away from long- and vehemently-held positions, and both of which occurred as a result of the strike.
First, the companies agreed in principle to pay residuals on streamed TV episodes. It was an absurdly lowball offer, I grant you, but their previous “offer” had been to pay us nothing at all, ever. So that’s movement.
Second, they agreed in principle to Guild jurisdiction over internet productions derived from TV. That’s only half the jurisdictional battle where the internet is concerned, and probably the easier half, but it gives us a toehold where we previously had none. Movement again.
I claim that neither of these things would have happened in the absence of a strike because we know what the AMPTP’s offer was in the absence of a strike: That “three-year study” proposal that essentially translated to “We do whatever the hell we want in this area without paying you a dime until 2010, and then we claim that you’re trying to increase costs in an already-established business when you finally get another chance to come looking for a piece of it.”
There are several elements of your post that I strongly agree with, and several others that I strongly disagree with, but these two statements were just plain factually incorrect. The strike has not achieved nothing. If we threw in the towel tomorrow and agreed to the AMPTP’s most recent proposal exactly as written, we would still have gained two things that we didn’t have before, and that we wouldn’t have gotten any other way.
I’m not claiming that those two small victories alone would remotely justify the costs of the strike, but we’re island-hopping here (in the “Pacific Campaign” sense, not the “tropical vacation” sense…and sorry, everyone, for introducing yet another inappropriate wartime analogy). We have to make small advances somewhere in order to get anywhere. Otherwise, we just lose.
Now, one place where I’m in strong agreement is that I emphatically do not want the DGA to be my unofficial proxy at the bargaining table. I disagree with the belief that pattern bargaining is some immutable law of nature, and that we can’t possibly arrive at a better deal by any means if the DGA crosses the finish line before us…but nonetheless, it will definitely make life much cleaner and easier if we get there first.
So it does behoove us to consider both what might convince the AMPTP to return to the table, and what might convince the DGA to stay away from it for a while longer.
On the former point, there was a good discussion in one of the previous threads about offering a mutual withdrawal of secondary demands. For us to take ours off unilaterally, in the hope that the AMPTP would then bargain with us reasonably, would be stupid on our part — we already tried that once and got burned. But to say (visibly, publicly, for the media and the rest of the industry to see) “We’ll take all our bullshit off the table in one fell swoop if you’ll take all yours off too, and then we can focus on the essential stuff and try to get everybody back to work” would be a very wise move on our part, I think. At the very least, the companies would then be the ones saying no, rather than us.
Of course, publicly declaring reality jurisdiction to be part of our “bullshit basket” would mean a certain amount of egg on Verrone’s face, after what he said on Friday…but what the hell; he threw that egg out himself, and just assumed we’d all be happy to catch it. Personally, I have zero interest in prolonging the strike for the sake of his reputation; we’re not going to get reality coverage this time around (at the very least), and the sooner we accept that, the closer we’ll be to getting the things we can get and must get.
Oh Craig, you are going to make their heads blow off with this one.
But good for you.
And thank you for talking about picketing, it’s about time someone did. Because the more time I’ve spent on the lines, I’ve begun to wonder: what is the point of a picket line that doesn’t attempt to stop the CUSTOMERS from buying the struck companies’ wares? There is a reason why supermarket strikes happen outside supermarkets — because the goal is to get CUSTOMERS to sympathize with the strikers.
If we’re going to picket, we need to be picketing outside of movie theaters, video stores, and wherever finer movies are sold. Because you’re right — picketing outside these studios? Doesn’t do a damn bit of good.
(Sorry to hog the board like this; last post from me for a while, I promise.)
Specifically, what I think we should demand the AMPTP commit to, in return for our concessions, would be:
–Do away with the concept of “promotional” streaming. Period. It’s ludicrous, and even they’ve never offered any defense for it, as far as I know.
–Commit to paying something in residuals for streaming of movies. Even if their opening offer is a dollar a year. Just commit to the concept that money must change hands when this happens.
–Withdraw any rollback proposals concerning separated rights.
–Commit to a date and time at which we will discuss jurisdiction over made-for-internet. (They obviously won’t commit to granting it to us at this point, but we shouldn’t concede any of our “ammo” unless they agree to at least show up and listen. And then we need to have a comprehensive, workable proposal ready to show to them and everybody else on that day, and start playing this issue in the court of public opinion, too.)
–Take away whichever other major sticking points I’m forgetting. I’m sure there are several.
Thank the Lord! Craig is back!
Brilliant, Craig. All of it.
I know you don’t want the gig, but you are THE best qualified for the gig.
If the things that you suggest aren’t done, the Ghost of WGA’s future will surely show us a bleak terraine.
Thank you for this. It is so perfectly, amazingly illustrative of a point of view that drives me crazy.
See, I don’t judge the neg com by the last five weeks. The clock started running on them late last spring, when they started working. So is six months long enough? Are we allowed to judge them now?
Or how about two years? Because the neg com is just a bunch of people hand picked by the group that came into power in 05, and has all the officer and board positions. So is two years long enough to judge the effectiveness of Patric, Young and their crew?
How much longer would you like us to wait to start judging? January? March? July? Just pick a date. Because six weeks out of work with a WORSE offer on the table than the one we had last July doesn’t really feel like victory to me. It feels like we are hurtling backwards.
Thank God! Finally a voice of reason that speaks to reality and the needs of the working membership of the WGA. Verrone and Young have overplayed their hand. Pull everything Craig mentioned off the table and get down to the business of making the best deal possible!
I am not a professional writer, but I have followed the current strike mainly because of my love for movies. All of the issues have been a blur to me until I read this post by Craig. His issues make sense, but I’m not an insider so they would.
I do believe that the WGA and its members would make better progress if you all would picket where movies are shown or sold instead of in front of the studios. If the studio heads see the ticket buyer talking to a WGA member holding a picket sign, then the producers will really start to sweat!
Regards,
Bob
Oy. Seriously? Who gets to decide which 400? I doubt you’re talking about writers who make the most money b/c they (or you) are likely most capable of making deals far better than the WGA could negotiate for you. The 400 Club doesn’t need the strike or the WGA. They just need their super special writing powers and a good agent. Or maybe you’re talking about 400 writers who can make or break the end product; but since TV writers have more power in that regard, this would leave no room for any feature writers.
Susan
Let me get this straight. We will strike till we unionize our opposition, reality TV? Hey why stop there? Unionize the AMPTP!
THANK YOU, CRAIG!!!
I was beginning to feel like I was the only one who felt this way. Dissent is healthy. And this idea that has taken root that anyone who disagrees with the guild leaders is a shill for the AMPTP is dangerous. I think more reasonable voices need to be heard in this process. And more reasonable people need to be involved in the negotiation.
Carl’s a friend, a smart guy and he’s got more Guild experience than I’ll ever be able to accrue in my lifetime…but I disagree with him on this one.
I’ll call him and ask him about his reasoning, though.
Well, first off — as someone else noted — a lot of people are being affected by the strike. Myself included. However, my desire for a fair contract for ALL far outweighs my personal needs.
Secondly, I’m sorry you’re sitting on your ass. It’s important to note that Craig’s not. He’s editing his film (okay, technically he’s sitting on his ass). What were his words about the reality writers? Oh yeah:
“… they continue to work merrily away while we go on strike, thus reducing the efficacy of said strike…”
Except, he’s in the exact same building. Working as merrily away as they are. You know how this strike is affecting you? How much is it really affecting Craig?
To me, Craig’s posts on the matter hold less water than say, this guy (or you):
“I spent nearly 12 hours today in the Negotiation Room with the companies. I watched our side desperately try to make a deal. We gave up our request to increase revenue on DVD’s, something that was very painful to give up, but something we felt we had to in order to get a deal made in new media, which is our future.
I watched as the company’s representatives treated us horrendously, disrespectfully, and then walked out on us at 9:30 and then lied to the trades, claiming we had broken off negotiations.
I can’t in good conscience fight these bastards with one hand, while operating an avid with the other. I am on strike and I am not working for them. PERIOD.“
– Shawn Ryan (emphasis mine)
Wanna know who my Guild hero is?
The AMPTP is strong. The WGA is weak.
Just give up.
The AMPTP doesn’t need you. You are worthless. Worthless people should take whatever deal they can get.
Just give up.
The AMPTP is so strong that it can go on forever. You cannot even imagine how strong your adversaries are. It is strength like you have never seen. If they were not infinitely strong, they would have given up by now, because the battle has raged for five whole weeks.
Just give up.
Whenever the AMPTP mistreats you and refuses to negotiate, that is a sign that you are weak and they are strong. Why would they treat you with contempt if you didn’t deserve it?
Just give up.
It has been weeks and you still haven’t won. If you could win, you’d have won by now. Strikes are always won in a short time. The existence of the battle proves that you have lost the battle.
Just give up.
If you don’t give up now, the elite among you will abandon you. Those elites are your sole source of strength. And the rumor is that they want to give up. Do you want to lose your best and brightest? The ones who truly have value, unlike you?
Just give up.
Your leaders, while possibly well-intentioned, have become emotional and power-mad. You can’t trust your leaders. If your leaders were worth your trust, you would have won the strike by now. The fact of the battle proves that the battle is lost, and your leaders are responsible for this failure.
Just give up.
Your leaders did things that made the opposition mad. It’s their fault that the opposition doesn’t want to make a deal. The job of union leaders is to make company leaders happy. Your leaders failed in this mission.
Just give up.
You are not winning. You are losing. Stop picketing. Your opponents will see this as a sign of weakness, but remember that you are weak and they are strong. You might as well admit it. If you do picket, carry a sign that says, “I know I am weak and I am sorry.”
Just give up.
Your leaders have failed you. Your position is hopeless. Your best and brightest are abandoning you. The companies are strong and you are weak. It’s a disaster, and it is only going to get worse.
Just give up.
Hyphy,
Dissent is definitely healthy. But any PR guy worth his salt (including the ones Craig wants to hire) will tell you: Publicly, the writers should be (or at least appear) in unity.
AMPTP Stooge Translator:
As far as I can recall, I’ve found all your previous posts here to be a little silly and a little annoying.
What you wrote above was fucking brilliant.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Well done.
What show or feature were you working on before the strike, Mr. Priya?
It saddens me that someone like Craig who speaks with such a simplified, thoughtful eloquence isn’t working in Washington. I’m frightened of this thou-shall-not-dissent rhetoric sputtering out the mouths of Verrone, Young, WGA members, posters on this blog, et al.
Reminder: You are “WRITERS”. Your job when you awake in the morning is to 1) drink coffee, 2) look at the world and 3) interpret that world. This interpreting is the most cherished gift you have on Earth. HOW IN GOD’S NAME does an artist even begin to mutter something like, “Stay the course.” Or worse: “Let’s break the studios.”
Having grown up with fundamentalist Christians, I’m reminded of the rancid stench of narrow-minded, unilateral, programmable thinking that transforms perfectly innocent, artistic, neurotic, messy, lovable, self-reliant humans into robots with a cause.
Some of the WGA rhetoric uncannily mirrors George W.’s approach toward diplomacy, i.e., “We will not negotiate with terrorists.” Look where that’s got us. Craig’s voice, on the other hand, reminds one of the careful, cautious thinking that JFK engendered. (Pardon the lofty comparison.)
And if anyone DARE thinks I’m on the AMPTP’s side, go f*** yourself. Want to see my bank account? I guarantee you it’s WAY less than yours.
Please, members of the WGA: Make art. Not ideologies. Save your “let’s break the conglomerates” speech for the characters in your next screenplay and/or sitcom. Put that energy into your work.
In the meantime, discuss your options. Examine your own guild. The powers that be will always be just that. As will Hollywood. You want to change the world. But you can change yourself. Lastly, to quote a great movie that I’m sure no one’s seen:
“Don’t say it, dear boy . . . write it.”
Been reading and enjoying this site for months, haven’t commented until now. Thought I had nothing smart to add, and now I’m about to prove it:
1. “Marginally Employed” is right–it’s the AMPTP that should fear being elbowed out of showbiz, not writers. We have a marketable skill, they just own a pipeline….that’s fast corroding. Let’s find another pipeline. I’ll be spending a lot of my time doing that. (I have a studio background and some friends with scary/big Wall Street jobs.) I’m not going to reinvent the business. But I bet I’ll find someone to put up some $$ to shoot test scenes from the spec I’ll be writing. Stuff like that, multiplied by thousands of us, could be a game changer.
2. Mazin’s a smart guy, but he takes a long time and
lots
of
space
to say stuff that could be said….faster. And a lot of his strike support reads like lip service. But he’s right about the WGA leadership’s dumb gambits on reality and sympathy strike clause.
3. Stooge was full of shit a lot, but his POV was fun to read. And helpful, in a “keep your friends close and your enemies closer” way. Was he really banned? Lame. Lame as well to ban Josh Olson. He wrote the best stuff here.
4. And yet….many thanks to Craig Mazin for use of the hall, and for his many wise posts about the writing process.
GruntWriter:
Sorry about the length. It’s a luxury for me to not have to edit and rewrite. Pure laziness, I grant you that.
As for AMPTP Stooge, I didn’t ban him. Who said he was banned?
I also spoke with Josh personally and let him know he could reregister and post again if he agreed to not attack my other guests.
Re:
On this point, I’ve had a couple reality producer / editor friends tell me over the past month that they and people they work with were surprised that there wasn’t any kind of outreach to them during the build-up to the strike to organize some sort of walkout or at least a symbolic gesture. Though these same people were skeptical that an outreach would have been successful, given the ANTM debacle, general mercenary self-interest, etc.
Craig–
Thanks for a reply so speedy and gracious. Thought I read that Stooge was banned (it was in a recent post, I swear). Glad to hear that’s false, glad about Olson as well, though I hope you won’t define “attack” as “criticize” (or what the hell, even “savagely mock”)–this isn’t Google China, right? And I know what you mean about editing and rewriting. I used to be a magazine writer, and our constaint compalint was, “I don’t have time to write short.”
Thank you Craig! I agree with everything you have said in your post. The WGA has rallied to get everyone on board explaining that the issues were centered around residuals. As someone who depends on IATSE pension and health care, I see how residuals affect me (granted they do not affect IATSE members as much as the WGA is stating).
I, however, am not pleased about negotiators clinging to animation and reality. If the AMPTP say that this is the sticking point and that they are willing to close a deal if it is taken off the table, then the WGA should call their bluff. There are too many people who are at stake. Like you said, the animation and reality folks are still making a living as we speak, while the writers and BTL are depleting their savings. In order to maintain the current level of support, the WGA leaders are going to have convince us that staying out on strike is worth it. And if animation and reality is what is keeping us out of work, it will be a tough sell.
On a positive note, I read on the Huffington Post that NBC has already started paying back advertisers for Q4. That has to hurt a little in the wallet, no?
Grunt:
Criticism is not only fine, it’s encouraged. Our simple rule is to keep things civil. Savage mockery will probably get deleted.
This sounds like someone else I know. Dammit. It’s on the tip of my tongue. Hold on…um…shit. Craig, help me out.
I was there for this.
Truly, a wondrous thing to behold.
And as they both parted ways smiling, I could swear the sun was shining brighter and the horns were honking louder.
It just felt like everything was going to be okay.
And then someone screamed ‘Screw You, You Selfish Prick’ at me as they drove by and once again, the skies over WB Gate 2 darkened.
Craig–
Rethink the savage mockery ban. Perhaps re-read Mencken, or the letters of Dalton Trumbo. Vicious personal assaults? Ban ‘em. Mockery that cuts, couple drops of blood? American as hell.
Great post, Craig. It seems like the AMPTP is not asking for too much in order to come back to the table and it looks like you agree with that. What I agree with is that the only thing that matters (or has mattered from the beginning) is getting a good deal on Internet issues (jurisdiction, streaming, downloads, etc.). Maybe the companies aren’t willing to give a good deal right now. I’d at least like to see them be given a chance without the peripheral stuff obfuscating things.
As a gesture to Josh Olson, I am posting the following:
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg119/badcog_photos/web-5.jpg
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg119/badcog_photos/web-4.jpg
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg119/badcog_photos/web-3.jpg
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg119/badcog_photos/web-2.jpg
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg119/badcog_photos/web-1.jpg
These are several photos taken at the rally of unfriendly signs, most of which I didn’t see when I was there. I must admit there was one that I did see, and dismissed without even thinking about it. That was the one that said “Wages Garneshed Away” (sic). So there were a few signs there that had sentiments I would not agree with, and some which I would find offensive. But I don’t think they represent the majority or even a significant minority of the below the line sentiments I saw being expressed.
In any case, I can only tell you what I saw and what I think about it. People may disagree with me about it.
I have posted a response at Kay’s site so that if Josh doesn’t wish to post here, he can post it there.
Agree with other poster. The personal animosity you have towards Patric is a little unhinged. Though it doesn’t quite match J.O.’s vitriol towards you, it dances awfully close.
Anyway, I’m cool with seeing the no strike clause, reality jurisdiction go (though I don’t feel empathy for those writers who can’t get health or pension, but we can’t fight for them by proxy).
Regarding change on the neg comm, that seems arbitrary – who goes, who stays? I’d be happy for Patric and David to step back just to lay rest to any argument that they’re devisive.
New media resid and new media jurisdiction are THE issues for sure.
Hm…no picketing? A coupla hours a day ain’t gonna kill no writers. Especially overweight pasty dudes, most of whom I’ve been on the line with. They need it. True, the bigger issue is that they’re not getting our scripts, but I think visually being out there is very important.
And I don’t know if you’re saying for a fact Henry Waxman offered to get involved, but was turned down (murky facts there). But I’m all for leaning on politicians, not ineffectual, morally corrupt camera hogs like Jesse Jackson. But real people.
Although, the two mogul-knowing (in contact with) folks I know, do say there is serious division on the AMPTP side and some freaking out going on. The Friday tantrum was last ditch effort to scare…
Still, I don’t want the DGA being my rep. However, they have different issues…so I’m not sure how they come around to support writers.
I do know several director/ writers who have been trying to get the DGA’s ear to hang back (some quite powerful). I really hope they keep it up.
Still, to be honest, I don’t buy the logic that not trying to organize reality would have us with a better deal at this point. People don’t let go of new profits without it being dragged out of their hands.
In other words, everything is goes according to the script.
I knew this was going to happen on November 3. It’ll be a bloodbath as deals are force majeured, people all over the business are fired, careers are destroyed, those who are wealthy will weather the storm just fine, people at the lower end of the financial totem pole will be driven out of the business for good.
It’s the purge before the next meal. And the next meal is June which is when the WGA should have gone on strike if it hadn’t been for that bitch Melissa Gilbert who stuck her surgically enhanced snout in where it wasn’t wanted and fucked everything up for the WGA. Then again, what else is new?
Anyone who thinks the strike will end before June is deluded.
Is anyone honestly surprised that everyone involved let their egos and greed get the better of them?
In the meantime, I hope everyone was smart with their money and put some savings away because it’s going to be a cold winter and a long spring.
“For starters, we need to stop obsessing over this nonsense phrase “we can’t negotiate with ourselves!” It’s meaningless. If you create a set of demands, and the other side refuses those demands, what are you going to do? Hold your breath for a year? Of course not. You have to evaluate your demands, and remove some while maintaining your leveraged threat against the other side.”
That sounds like a familiar strategy. Why? ‘Cause that’s exactly what we did with DVD residuals back in the end of October. Let’s look back at what the studios had said…
AMPTP: “We keep running up against the DVD issue. The companies believe that movement is possible on other issues, but they cannot make any movement when confronted with your continuing efforts to increase the DVD formula, including the formula for electronic sell-through. The magnitude of that proposal alone is blocking us from making any further progress. We cannot move further as long as that issue remains on the table. In short, the DVD issue is a complete roadblock to any further progress.”
So what’d we do? We dropped the DVD issue. What’d we get in exchange? Nothing. Literally, nothing.
But that’s okay. What matters is that the studios’ roadblock had been removed, and, after all, the studios did assure us that they “believe that movement is possible on other issues,” so, awesome, let’s just sit back down at the bargaining table and together we can turn to those “other issues” and– wait… what’s that you say? You mean, suddenly, there’s more roadblocks stopping the negotiations? And, once again, the WGA must remove those roadblocks before negotiation can take place?
AMPTP: “The WGA organizers have made unreasonable demands that are roadblocks to real progress: They demand full control over reality television and animation… The WGA organizers are demanding the right to ignore their bargained “no strike” provision… Their proposal for Internet compensation could actually cost producers more than they receive in revenues… They insist that writers receive a piece of advertising revenue… They want a third party to set an artificial value on transactions…”
Well, darnit, why didn’t they mention those “roadblocks” back in October? I mean, those’ve been in our pattern of demands since July, right?
But, oh well, here we are. And what does Craig suggest we do? Once again, drop those issues. What studio concessions does Craig want us to hold out for, in exchange for dropping those issues? Nothing. Literally, nothing.
So, sure, let’s go ahead and, once again, unilaterally (and in exchange for nothing) remove those irksome “roadblocks,” as Craig suggests.
After this, for sure, no foolin’, the AMPTP is gonna negotiate with us in earnest, and there’s absolutely no possible way that the AMPTP will ever again unilaterally declare certain demands to be “roadblocks” for the WGA to unilaterally remove (in exchange for nothing). ‘Cause, you know, that’s something they’d only do once. I mean, twice. But not any more after that.
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
It saddens me that someone like Craig who speaks with such a simplified, thoughtful eloquence isn’t working in Washington. I’m frightened of this thou-shall-not-dissent rhetoric sputtering out the mouths of Verrone, Young, WGA members, posters on this blog, et al.
Frightened? Is the boogeyman hiding under the bed? It’s routine in national politics for parties and other organizations to call for unity, to present a unified public face. Once the party nominates its candidate, party members don’t dissent in public. This is the way business is done in Washington.
Reminder: You are “WRITERS”. Your job when you awake in the morning is to 1) drink coffee, 2) look at the world and 3) interpret that world. This interpreting is the most cherished gift you have on Earth. HOW IN GOD’S NAME does an artist even begin to mutter something like, “Stay the course.” Or worse: “Let’s break the studios.”
First of all, don’t try to tell experienced, competent professionals their job. Writers know what their jobs entail. You on the other hand clearly don’t.
The benefits the creative community in Hollywood enjoys are in no small part a function of past strikes. Reagan took SAG out on strike for residuals when he was prexy of that union..
In Hollywood, there has always been a tension between art and commerce. No one who sustains a career can afford to lose sight of either one.
Having grown up with fundamentalist Christians, I’m reminded of the rancid stench of narrow-minded, unilateral, programmable thinking that transforms perfectly innocent, artistic, neurotic, messy, lovable, self-reliant humans into robots with a cause.
Read a few books and become conversant with the issues before you weigh in a subject. There are specific business and artistic reasons which led to the creation of the Guild and all of its labor actions. The leaders are smart, determined people who are making clear, rational proposals. They aren’t particularly neurotic, not at all messy in terms of their work as writers, and definitely not in need of your affection.
Some of the WGA rhetoric uncannily mirrors George W.’s approach toward diplomacy, i.e., “We will not negotiate with terrorists.” Look where that’s got us. Craig’s voice, on the other hand, reminds one of the careful, cautious thinking that JFK engendered. (Pardon the lofty comparison.)
You really shouldn’t make historical analogies if you don’t know history. JFK’s presidency involved a lot more than rhetoric. Why even mention his rhetoric when there’s a well established record of his actions, some wise, some foolish, as president. Overall, he used as much manipulative and jingoistic rhetoric as any other successful politician. What in the world would make you believe otherwise?
Bush isn’t the only person to mouth the non -negotiation line. It’s the standard line US leaders use in their public statements. It’s not true. Not for Bush, and not for any preceding US president. They all negotiate with terrorists when it suits their needs. Don’t confuse public statements with reality.
And if anyone DARE thinks I’m on the AMPTP’s side, go f*** yourself. Want to see my bank account? I guarantee you it’s WAY less than yours.
Since AMPTP clearly favors getting workers as cheaply as possible, your meager savings make you an ideal candidate for shilling their propaganda. Since your arguments don’t make sense, it proves that one gets what one pays for.
Please, members of the WGA: Make art. Not ideologies. Save your “let’s break the conglomerates” speech for the characters in your next screenplay and/or sitcom. Put that energy into your work.
As if it were ever possible to separate art from ideology. See above my remarks on the tension between art and commerce. See also Harlan Ellison’s scathingly funny video on youtube on his insistence that writers get paid.
In the meantime, discuss your options. Examine your own guild. The powers that be will always be just that. As will Hollywood. You want to change the world. But you can change yourself. Lastly, to quote a great movie that I’m sure no one’s seen:
The powers that be have made small but significant concessions in this strike. They will make more. The current contract is a function of the powers that be being forced to change numerous times over the years. Again, familiarize yourself with the basic facts before you offer your opinion.
“Don’t say it, dear boy . . . write it.”
ZachHutton | Dec 10, 2007 | Reply
Can we pls not call women bitches unless it’s a line of DIAL — thanks.
It is refreshing to read someone who is clear headed about this as Craig is. Your analysis clearly lays out all your points. I fully support the WGA and writers but the rhetoric is getting tiresome.
I have now come to the conclusion the union leadership does not want the strike to end.
Imho, their negotiating skills are sorely lacking. Do writers realize at the end of this, they could be WORSE off than when they started? I sincerely hope we get what we want but we need better leadership.
Why not say to Counter, “okay. We will take animation and Reality OFF the table. Now you give us EVERYTHING we want in DVDs, streaming, downloads, digital, Internet broadcasting.”
That’s how you negotiate. The ball is back in the amptp’s court. THEY are on the defensive.
I especially like your post that we cannot bring these companies to their knees. The (vitirol) and not to mention, bitter, naivete that some writers have in thinking we can is… mind-boggling.
What does Patric have at stake? Not being snarky, but what is his salary during the strike? Lots and lots of people have a lot to lose in this.
My point isn’t don’t strike but do it with the best possible impact — SO THAT OUR SIDE CAN WIN — and not for some glorified male (can you tell I’m female?) who’s d-ck is bigger, pissing contest. Just because you support something 100% doesn’t mean you have to be blind or brainwashed.
I also don’t get how some writers are on the picket lines everyday and others are out shilling for their movies soon to be released and not seemingly picketing at all.
I’m worried. I’m worried that after the scorched earth smoke has cleared, Verrone will be ousted and hundreds of writers will have lost careers, jobs, homes etc. saying “why didn’t we have anyone looking out for us?” and then the guild will end up with a horrible contract, a worse contract, or nothing at all. While their members march like dutiful soldiers hoping for the best. Hope only gets you so far.
Maybe the moguls will say, “gee! we can’t live without writers! Here you go — here’s everything you ever wanted!” We know that will never happen, so the question is: why didn’t Patric and the WGA NEGOTIATE when they were last at the table and COMPROMISE and take reality and animation off.?
Hey, Patrick. I like the way you think. You mind if I ask where you’re from?
Just joshin’ ya.
Anyways, I’m with you. Let’s keep stuff on the table that our officers, board and neg com have publicly and privately said we’re going to drop. Let’s just keep ‘em there because. Because we’re not quitters! We’re fighters!
I don’t know if you’ve negotiated a lot of deals there, Meghan. Lookin’ at yer IMDB page, it seems like you’ve had a couple of lower level TV staff jobs. Now, I’m reckoning that about the only thing of significance that you’ve ever negotiated is your weekly salary.
Now, since that’s the only issue you were going back and forth on, did you put a whole bunch of stuff in your demands that you knew you weren’t going to get and they knew you knew you weren’t going to get? Ask for a couple of trips on the corporate jet, stuff of that nature?
No?
Why not? How on earth could you get a fair number if you didn’t ask for stuff you didn’t reckon you’d get?
Before you go hollerin’ about the video game you wrote… again, that’s just one issue, right? Did the group that you were part of ask for it to be a WGA deal and for a pony?
Some of us have actually negotiated things a bit more complicated than five thousand versus six thousand an episode. And we know you don’t bog it down with nonsense. You get to the stuff that matters and make the deal. Especially when it’s the only way yer gonna get paid.
One day longer! One day longer!
Shotgun Jones Hollywood, Baby! CA
First of all, don’t try to tell experienced, competent professionals their job. Writers know what their jobs entail. You on the other hand clearly don’t.
And how do you know I’m not a professional writer exactly? I’m afraid your colossal, ignorant presumption suddenly renders your emboldened rebuttals invalid. A suggestion: Not all “writers” get paid 6 or 7 figures for their work. Read a few books and become conversant with the issues and history of “writers” — poets, novelists, playwrights, screenwriters, et al — before you weigh in on the subject.
See above my remarks on the tension between art and commerce.
Nah . . . Oh, wait! Do you mean to say that tension occurs amid the relationship of art and commerce? Holy Christ! I never thought of that. Thank you so much for enlightenment. I am indebted, and await your profound, imminent, incisive, astute, arrogant-free post with nail-biting anticipation.
Having been to informational meetings, rallies, and Q&A sessions on the picket lines over the last few months, the only kind of dissent I’ve seen Verrone et al resistant to is that which might strengthen the resolve of the AMPTP to continue to offer nothing, knowing that we will be softening toward the acceptance of a shitty deal.
I’m all for loyal dissent and no one has stopped you from voicing your opinions craig. And just because leadership doesn’t change their strategy after you email them (my god that came off as arrogant) doesn’t mean you haven’t been heard.
We are in the early rounds of this fight. Taking issues off the table that don’t matter to YOU, en masse, is no kind of bargaining strategy. It’s a give and take and all they’ve given us is the finger and worse.
I have complete faith in our leadership, that when the companies finally come to us with a real starting point, they will concede as necessary in order for us to get what most important to the greatest number of guild members.
A. Patrick, that was a really nice post.
B. Odo, yours was too.
C. That goes triply for AMPTP Stooge Translator.
D. Jim’s too.
E. Shotgun Jones, why are you bringing up people’s credits (or in my case, lack thereof)? Really poor taste, man.
Sorry for the long post but I felt compelled to, respectfully, offer an opposing viewpoint to the opposing viewpoint.
I think it’s way too early to begin buying into the notion that WGA leadership is adhering, suicidally, to intractable demands, that they are intent on oppressing dissent within the Guild about their bargaining positions, deaf to input from the rank and file, and that some sort of palace coup is our only hope for survival.
I just haven’t seen enough evidence to prove this theory true and suspect that oppression is often a self-diagnosed condition.
I know that we’re the kind of people who make a living thinking in dramatic terms but it might serve us best to sideline those impulses for the moment. I think we’d do better to frame our interests and desires in an encouraging and positive light rather than aggressive, public criticism of those currently doing our negotiating.
And before anyone jumps in and accuses me of having joined the imagined oppressors I described earlier, based on that last sentence, I’ll try and elaborate on my position.
Public debate is, of course, not only a right but also a crucial pillar of a healthy, free society. However, it is hardly debatable that in an adversarial standoff between two groups, contentious divisions visible to an opponent provide that opponent encouragement and resolve.
Since I’ve been so disgusted by the misguided use of war analogies on this topic I’ll stick to sports.
I think it’s been pretty well proven out that the most successful teams refrain from “airing their dirty laundry” in the press and sort out their differences in the locker room so that the opponent can’t find any weaknesses to exploit. If the back page of The Post is filled with quotes from offensive linemen about how their quarterback is a poor decision maker who holds onto the ball too long and I’m the opposing coach, I’m bringing ferocious blitzes from the opening snap. I will look to break the will of those whose motivation seems most vulnerable in order to weaken the team as a whole.
There is a delicate relationship between open discussion and effective strategy in adversarial circumstances and it requires the most artful diplomacy to best navigate it.
I reject the argument that equates questioning how best to exchange ideas amongst Guild members during a combative standoff with the AMPTP with NeoCon, “with or against us” ideology. Seems to me that the NeoContras that grab onto that reed are, in effect, using the same tactics they are decrying. It’s unfortunate that this disturbing “with or against” meme has seeped so deeply into the culture that is being used by people within a labor union against one another. Strange times indeed.
But back to the sports analogy:
It can’t be totally ignored that sometimes a player gets into a long slump that hurts the team and, at some point; the coach may need to look to the bench for a replacement. But until that’s undeniably true, the most effective team policy is to give that player unified support and encouragement about the things he does well and help him into situations where he can succeed.
Which is why I strongly encourage and support the current WGA leadership on their efforts to reject rollbacks on separated rights and similar issues and to get an acceptable deal on NEW MEDIA. Everywhere I look I see ironclad solidarity on NEW MEDIA. When it comes to NEW MEDIA I think the vast majority of writers are firmly behind the NegCom and willing to stay out as long as it takes to get a NEW MEDIA deal that serves all our interests going forward. I might even encourage all members to email the Leadership to let them know how solid and unified we are on NEW MEDIA. Because NEW MEDIA is the one thing that I think we all agree is worth striking over. I sincerely appreciate the differences of opinion within the Guild and respect the thoughts and contributions of everyone from the most conservative to the most radical but the thing that really inspires me is that even the most extremely opposed voices agree that NEW MEDIA unites us all.
I want to make one thing clear.
I have zero personal animus toward Patric. I actually like him quite a bit as a person, I have tremendous regard for his intelligence, I think he was an excellent Secretary-Treasurer of our union, his grasp of detail and complexity is formidable…
…I just really really really disagree with his philosophy on how to empower the members of the WGA, west.
That’s it.
I actually like most of the people who are in leadership…at least the ones I know. There’s one guy who drives me up the wall in there, but he drives everyone up the wall, and I don’t think anyone really takes him seriously.
Other than that guy (and he’s not a name you hear bandied about practically ever), most people there are good folks, excellent writers and passionate thinkers.
It’s just that I think many of them are wrong.
Nothing more, nothing less.
Mr. Priya:
My apologies. I had no idea you hadn’t worked. You’d talked about how you were affected by the strike, and how you wanted a fair contract. I didn’t realize it was a theoretical.
Mrs. Shotgun Jones,
I’m not in the Guild. I’ve mentioned that a fair few times on this site. Does this relatively old fact somehow discredit my opinions?
Craig,
Regarding this statement:
What does that imply about us pressing for made-for-internet jurisdiction, then?
(Sincere question. I’m completely ignorant on this subject. And it sounds like something that very possibly would keep me up at night…)
I didn’t get banned at all. I just am taking a pause for the cause.
It’s frankly a little depressing in that you have one side that bullies because it can (AMPTP) and the other that basically just has a “Napoleon Complex.” Not a good mix.
I think the one fundamental problem that a lot of you don’t understand is that you are weaker. I don’t pick fights with 500 pound gorillas because I know they will rip my arms off and beat me to death with them. I also don’t complain to my friends how unfair it is that God made the gorilla bigger and stronger than me and that I can’t go slap the gorilla without being fearful of the gorilla killing me. On top of it all…this gorilla is virtually indestructible…so I can’t go get a gun and shoot him.
You mess with the bull you get the horns. That simple.
Is it “fair?” I am not your momma. Go cry your eyes out to her about the cruelty of life. I think I personally will rate wanting say $150M on top of, what, $1 Billion a 1 on the 1-10 “Life Sucks O’Meter.”
And for anyone who makes claims like “they think we are worthless and treat us that way”…I’d love to be treated so badly. I just did a deal where we paid a guy $300,000 to write a pilot script. The pilot got made (he got paid an extra $100k for his “producer” services on top of that) and never saw the light of day. $400,000 to hand over something he already wrote (it was spec). Money the company will never see again because they took a risk…certainly no one is offering that money back…that would be “fair.” That’s some kind of worthless.
If you aren’t getting paid enough to make a living as a writer, then you aren’t by definition a “professional writer”…you may think you are…but you aren’t. Guild membership does not anoint upon you the right to never work another job in your life. Writing successfully does. And no one can complain that being a successful writer doesn’t pay a shit load of f’ing money.
Get a little perspective.
Great post, Craig. Keep trying.
No offense to you, Jim, because I appreciate your opinion, but these kind of statements – whether true or not – anger me. Shouldn’t the early rounds have occured months and months ago? Couldn’t SOME of the new contact been hammered out before the threat of a strike became a reality? I guess I wonder why it is that every other guild has been able to negotiate contracts with either no stike or a very short lived one (what was the DGA strike? A matter of hours?) It looks like this one could possibly outlast ’88 unless things take a drastic turn and I’m not sure that is something that anyone can or should be accept. Unless, there is someone who can explain to me how the results of the last strike was worth everyone in the industry (writers and btl) losing six months of wages.
Look, I hate the big business way of life that America has adopted. I know that the AMPTP has wealth to share. I just don’t think that dragging the strike on for six months will automatically get the WGA what they want. Negotiate smarter, not longer.
Priya,
I think that Shotgun is saying, if you weren’t getting paid as a writer before the strike, then you aren’t really making any financial sacrifices to be out of work right now due to the strike – assuming you pay your bills in a way that has not been affected by production shutdown. Your future may be somewhat at stake, but your present is not. The writers and below the line that had a steady, paying gig have lost their only source of income (especially those who expected to work a full tv season like most I know).
But for the record, I think you have every right to post and voice your opinion, and I like to hear what everyone thinks. So, please keep on posting. And Shotgun, why pick on Priya?
First, I am a man! Don’t really understand the confusion on that one……
Second, if ya force me to tell the truth? I’m really not too curious to hear advice from people who don’t have skin in the fight. I’m on a Writers Guild board (Writer Action, by name), and I find the the people who are the most hardline are those who are retired, haven’t worked in years and have other jobs, or have never worked and are some kind of honorary members.
Again, bein’ frank, if ya ain’t workin’, you should keep yer trap shut about the deal we should take or when we should go back to work.
WHY didn’t Verrone take animation and reality OFF the table and say: NOW give us EVERYTHING in pay formulas/residuals?
That is how you negotiate.
Why?
Because the guild leadership is not interested in ending the strike.
They had the power to end it and are motivated by their male egos.
I hope we get what we want. But I agree, if you go into a cage at the zoo with the 3000 pound gorilla, you better have a plan and know what you’re getting into. To expect the gorilla to sit down and have tea is not realistic.
What if Patric had taken that off the table? the AMPTP could have:
a) Agreed. Yippee! A new contract with everything the guild wants sans animation and reality — which could be negotiated at a later time. No harm no foul.
b)Stalled. Yippee! They look REALLY bad when the WGA gives up something and compromises and the AMPTP does nothing.
c) disagreed. Yippee! They look REALLY bad when the WGA gives up something and compromises and they do nothing.
See — how that would’ve been a win-win?
But what does the guild do? Nothing! They get in some pissing contest and slam doors. While people’s lives hang in the balance. Embarassing. F-cked up. Shameful.
I hope they get it together!
.
Deleting this comment here, because Shotgun is absolutely correct. Since I’m not in the Guild, I shouldn’t say anything on Guild matters.
Shotgun, should I picket if I’m not in the Guild?
Oh, well, since you’re citing your own authority and experience as being superior to mine (and, thus, your own viewpoint as being of superior value), I suppose I’m going to have to ask you who you are, who you work for, and what you do for a living.
I’ll start by giving you the exact same information for me:
My name is Patrick Meighan, I work for Fox Animation as a writer (staff level: Co-Producer) on “Family Guy.”
You?
(By the way, if it turns out you don’t happen to have the, er, whatever it’d take for you to publicly identify yourself, then maybe you could do me the courtesy of dropping the Appeal to Authority garbage and addressing the post, rather than the poster.)
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
Craig,
(I really don’t care about petty flame wars)
Is there a rational reason the guild didn’t negotiate and take that (anmtion & reality) off the table (call their bluff) when asked? What am I missing?
Yeah, whatever on that.
Some people think that “Family Guy” (I’ve been there three years now) is a pretty decent credit. It’s not like there’s tons and tons of sitcom jobs out there right now. What, is this board just teeming with oodles of working tv writers with much, much, much better credits than me?
But, again, whatever.
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
Patrick, for the record. I heart Family Guy. It isn’t a decent credit – it is a phenomenal credit. I couldn’t name a sitcom out there that even compares in wit and smart writing.
Good to see you back, Stooge.
Now, here’s why you’re full of crap…
Sorry, kidding. But still, regarding the pilot situation you described:
If the company liked the script, bought the script they liked, shot a pilot from the script they liked, then suddenly didn’t like the pilot, how would the writer possibly be responsible for that sudden drop-off in quality right at the end? (You imply that he is responsible, by saying it would be fair for him to return the money he was paid.) Should we be offering a five-year warranty with every spec sale now?
(A crankier writer than myself might also ask whether the company actually shot the script they’d liked so much in the first place and paid all that money to acquire, or if they instead “developed” it beyond recognition after the purchase, and were then startled to find that the joint creation of lo, those many well-meaning hands somehow, inexplicably turned out to suck. But that would be a discussion for when we’re not on strike, I guess.)
In any case, the possible scenarios all seem to break down into two basic categories: a) the company made a horrible business decision, which is certainly its right to do, but no fault of the writer’s; or b) the company is simply, as the Guild described it at the outset of negotiations back in July, operating in a “portfolio business,” much like venture capital, where you invest in a whole bunch of stuff that looks promising, understand that most of those investments are going to fail, and hope that your successes are large enough to cover the rest and still provide a profit.
(Now, if the writer did have a genuinely horrible script at the outset, yet somehow still charmed the company into handing him almost half a million bucks for it…well, hell, maybe that guy could join our Negotiating Committee.)
…On a different topic:
Damn straight. But a lot of us do work other jobs, of course.
Finally, your indestructible-gorilla analogy seems a tiny bit overoptimistic to me. How did the writers obtain a pension fund, health coverage, residuals, all the other shit that the gorilla routinely bitches about, if he’s so utterly impervious to harm? Why didn’t he just, y’know, tear our arms off when we asked him for that stuff?
Could it possibly be because the gorilla, despite all his chest-thumping, needs us to feed him…?
The AMPTP doesn’t really much care if they look REALLY bad, if–in exchange for looking REALLY bad–they’re reaping major concessions. The AMPTP already did do nothing (and, thus, looked REALLY bad) when the WGA gave up something and compromised on a little issue called DVD Residuals. Yup, just as in your model, the AMPTP looked REALLY bad, and because of that, the WGA got… nothing.
And you wanna repeat of that? With not just one more unilateral, unreciprocated concession, but six?!
No, the way the Guild is going to wring concessions out of the AMPTP is not by making them look REALLY bad. The way the Guild is going to wring concessions out of the AMPTP is by causing it economic pain, until such time as the AMPTP realizes it costs less money to give us what we want than it would to NOT give us what we want.
An important corrollary to that is for the AMPTP to believe that the Guild’s membership is united behind its negotiation team and its demands (thus dissuading the AMPTP from believing that the Guild’s will is about to break of its own accord, if only the AMPTP will just wait a tiny bit longer).
Up ’til this point, we, as WGA members, have done a very good job of that. Will we continue to do so?
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
I’m on WA, I’m pretty hardline, and I’m not retired, I’ve worked pretty steadily for the past seven years, I’m working now at “Family Guy,” I have no other job, and I’m no kind of honorary member.
So do I count? Does my opinion matter?
I guess, since credits and work history are so important to you, and you continue to insist on playing the Appeal to Authority card, well, you and I could go ahead and compare our credits right here and now and I could find out, definitively, just how inferior I am to you, and how much more valuable your opinion is than mine. So, um, who are you? What show do you write for? Is it a popular one?
I’m dying of curiousity!
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
Seems to me you kind of trade on your credits, son. To then wail that ya shouldn’t have them commented on doesn’t seem too logical. In other words, how’m I supposed to separate the post and the poster when the poster’s posts are about the poster?
But I always enjoy your enthusiasm, m’boy.
Shotgun Jones! Kickassville, CA!
Patrick, if the guild couldn’t do that in six months in ’88, how long will it take in ’08 when these studios are now HUGE conglomerates? Like I posted earlier, NBC is already doling back money to advertisers, so they are bound to feel a pinch. But, is a pinch enough? In your opinion, what actions other than the loss of advertising revenue from WGA scripted shows will the studios feel? I’m not baiting here – I would really like to know how long you think it will take to penetrate the AMPTP’s armor? And if it takes until August ’08 for people to go back to work, will it be worth it to everyone involved – as opposed to accepting half of what you want now and waiting for three years to try for the other half?
Patric does not earn a salary as Guild president. He did not before the strike, and he does not during a strike.
As best I understand, Patric is a writer on Futurama, which is, obviously, shut down during the strike, meaning he’s not earning a salary, and won’t until this strike is over. So, yes, like many of us, Patric has a lot to lose in this. In fact, he probably stands to lose more than many of us, ’cause (unlike the rest of us low-profile Guild folk) Patric is perceived as a hardliner and a visible leader of this rancorous strike, which will likely reduce his chances of earning an overall deal in the future down to, basically, ‘nil.
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
Would you prefer that I refer to Melissa Gilbert by the word that was my original choice?
Very Republican way of ignoring an entire argument by latching onto one random word and kicking up a fuss about it.
Go grow a pair.
In regard to Natalie, I wholeheartedly agree. Priya acted as if he/she/it had a horse in this race and it’s not true.
I’m sick of people outside of the business acting as if they’re giving up an income during this strike when they’re not losing shit.
And then they cry about dissent doing damage to “their” union.
Unbelievable.
Natalie,
You’re not in the WGA. It’s their fight only. No other opinions allowed. As per Shotgun. Oh, and Luke.
Luke,
Never said anything like dissent doing damage to “my” union. Have repeatedly said I’m not in WGA. As has Natalie. Sorry, can’t help myself. I don’t post personal information here — so, it’s totally cool that you assume I’m not in the business — because, to be fair to you, how would you know any different? However, I’ve been on the line since day one, was there again today. I think I earned myself the right to wonder where certain people have been. Considering that I’m an extra body out there fighting for *your* union. You don’t want people out there who aren’t in your Guild? Just say the word. I’ll probably ignore it, mind you. But, I’d love to hear you get *that* elitist.
Natalie,
First of all, I have no faith in my powers of prognostication, and try not to offer predictions over how long this’ll last.
Second, unlike ’88, when the WGA strike took place after the studios had a full season of television completed, this strike has managed to interrupt the ’07 television season (and, in the case of some important shows like Lost and 24, completely pre-empt). I do believe that works in our favor, as compared to ’88 (though I understand it’s not, in an of itself, any sort of win-all trump card).
But to try and answer your questions, I believe that the next piece of leverage the Guild has (outside of some sort of help from D.C. in the form of Congressional subpeonas of the studio books… something I’m not counting on) comes in late Januaryish, when the studios will have to decide if they’re willing to kiss off the ’08 pilot season and, thus, completely shitcan their second consecutive television season… perhaps inviting that permanent loss of eyeballs folks occaisionally whisper about. After that, the next piece of WGA leverage comes when SAG walks out in June or July.
I can’t speak for others, only myself, but I mean it when I say that I’m prepared, in every way, to picket every single day, ’til then, and beyond, if that’s what it takes for us to get a fair deal. And, yes, it will be worth it to me, if the alternative is taking a bad deal that will do permanent and lasting damage to the guild that I feel such loyalty towards, and to which I owe so much.
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
Hi Patrick,
Maybe but I think you’re missing my point. The WGA says: we will take this off the table IF (and only if) you then give us everything we want in pay residuals.
That’s called negotiating. As I outlined above, it would be a win-win.
Vs. what we have now — which is nothing. Striking and no deal and no plans for getting back to the table.
So, again I ask, how would that have been bad? Saying, we will do this if you do this?
[[cue crickets chirp and lone tumbleweed]]
Right. Exactly. There is NO WAY that would have been bad (that I can see but again, maybe I’m missing something??) which is why the WGA needs new negotiating leadership.
Also, just out of curiosity, what does Patric Verrone get paid during a strike?
If there’s someplace you can point to in which I implied that my opinion is of more value than someone else’s because I work at “Family Guy,” please do so. Seriously, I’m very curious.
In any event, I’d just like my beef is not that you commented on my credits. My beef is that you did so while being too much of a pussy to post your own, under your own name.
It appears that they don’t grow ‘em very brave in Kickassville, CA.
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
One more thing. I don’t always agree with what you say, Craig (especially in the past few months), but I agreed with every word of your latest piece.
Bravo for having the balls to write that when so many are so quick to automatically scream “shill” whenever a differing viewpoint is raised.
I’m not much for commenting, but this is asinine. If this were your specific contract on your specific deal and some jackass at the gas station looked over your shoulder and said, “Ooh! Definitely insist on an extra bump for a polish!” then sure. But if you are a working writer, then you know that you don’t just sit down one day and make a living at it. You work, hard, oftentimes for years without being paid, just struggling to get specs into the right hands and make the contacts you’ll need to one day GET paid. So the contract you’re negotiating right now will someday be MY contract. And since I’m not yet in the Guild, I don’t get a say. Which is fine. I haven’t contributed to the pension fund yet, I haven’t paid my monetary dues. But if there’s one place to NOT keep my non-union trap shut, it’s here, where there are voting writers that maybe might say, huh, good point, and negotiate something good for my future.
I wouldn’t dream of suggesting that I’m being hit as hard financially as those that have walked away from their only source of income. As a future Guild member, thank you, sincerely, for doing that for the rest of us. But my first spec went out for sale one month before the strike, I got great meetings all over town, and now I’m losing those contacts that barely know my name anyway, because, out of solidarity, I’m not contacting them, not submitting the outlines and pitches they asked for that might have gotten me the paying gig I’ve been waiting for. I went on unemployment a year ago in order to focus on the rewrites of said spec and get some more things going, and those checks stop coming in 3 weeks. I was hoping to have sold by now, or if not get some temp work, but even temp jobs have dried up. I don’t know how I’ll pay rent in February. Which is my fault and the risk I took, but frankly, the strike ain’t helping. So as much as I won’t dare to suggest that the working writers, and IATSE, and everyone else directly and immediately hit by this strike aren’t suffering, don’t you dare suggest that because I haven’t yet gotten a WGA-approved check that I’m not involved in this too.
Sharing your opinion is fine.
Just don’t act like you’ve got a horse in this race with your every post is all and then toss a hissy fit when people call you on it.
I’m not in the WGA, but I’m losing income cause hubby’s in the business (IATSE). I think everyone has an opinion worthy of a listen. I do hope that this strike is not being led by people who had nothing to lose anyway, though. But, I don’t think it is the case for the most part.
Okay, sorry, I did miss your point. I doubt, to all of heaven, that the AMPTP would give us every single penny we want in New Media Residuals if only we took, say, reality and animation off the table. But if they would, I think 99.9999999% of the Guild would take that deal, including the negotiating committee. The potential problem with doing what you suggest is it tips your bottom line to the other side, who will a) not give it to you, and b) try to bargain you down from your bottom line. Which you’ll notice as the final point on the AMPTP’s list of tactics:
Tactics: * Lower the expectations of the other side, divide and conquer. * Raise and lower the expectations of the other side, divide and conquer. * Do everything possible to destroy the credibility of the other side’s leadership, divide and conquer. * Use confidants and back channels to go over the heads of the stronger leaders to the softer targets. Divide and conquer. *When you figure out the other side’s bottom line, offer a fraction. It’s surprising how many times that stands.
http://unitedhollywood.blogspot.com/2007/12/playbook-of-amptp.html
There’s a reason that the AMPTP is not, of their own accord, offering to give us every penny we want in new media residuals, in exchange for the already-mentioned concessions. It’s because there’s no way they would do it.
I answered that question above. Patric Verrone gets paid $0 during the strike.
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
The image I am flashing on is the scene in Fail-Safe where the Secretary of Defense has ordered a flight of fighter-interceptors to chase after a flight of strategic bombers mistakenly ordered to strike Moscow with thermonuclear weapons. Because of the stakes, the fighter leader knows he has no choice but to commit to the chase. He also knows that, given his group’s fuel supply and the lead the bombers have on them, there is simply no physical possibility of them catching up to the bombers before running out of fuel and crashing into the Bering Straits to certain death.
The question is, does the level of economic resources that the WGA members have on hand — not individuals, but an average over the aggregate — add up to enough to outlast the AMPTP companies if the strike has to go for six or nine months longer? If the AMPTP can endure the pain of the strike longer than the WGA membership can, the strike will not BY ITSELF succeed in forcing the AMPTP to capitulate or even to make major concessions.
That’s why it makes sense to look for other ways to apply pressure to the AMPTP in addition to the strike.
You’re right, the AMPTP won’t concede all of the WGA’s other demands in return for the WGA ceding the six non-starter points. On the other hand, they might take off a certain number of their most egregious non-starter proposals in return, and then restart negotiations. I think that would be a desirable development. Do you disagree?
Theoretically, I suppose that’s on target. One unmentioned add-on, though, is that while a strike causes the AMPTP current economic pain (as it does the WGA members), it also has the potential to cause the AMPTP irreversable future economic pain, in the form of altered viewing habits that’ll be tough (or, perhaps, impossible) to undo. That’s what happened in the wake of the ’88 strike.
How much more market share are the studios willing to permanently lose? Are they willing to bet that they’ll get all those eyeballs back after TWO CONSECUTIVE tv seasons have been thrown in the ashcan?
That’s not a bet that I would take, if I were them. Not if the alternative is to pay the WGA anything close to what we’re asking for, which, financially, is well within their means to do.
In any event, that’s all big stuff that’s for smarter men than me to figure out with better calculators than mine.
All I know is that I, personally, am willing to walk a picket line for however long it takes. I mean it. Forever, if necessary. For freakin’ ever.
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
I hope I’m not preempting the Stooge Translator. Instant fan, here!
Does anyone else find the gorilla analogy insulting to the gorilla? A gorilla may be strong, but it has compassion. It takes its young to its tit and feeds it. Greed isn’t in its nature.
Anyroad, I’m assuming AMPTP Stooge will come back and tell you that the corporations are stronger now than they were back in the day, and the Unions are weaker, and thus it’s pointless to do anything other than bend over and let the butt-stabbing begin.
He’ll be correct about the first part. The AMPTP has more money than ever, more consolidation than ever, more influence than ever, more leverage than ever.
But the thing he doesn’t want you to think about is this: relatively speaking, the WGA has ALWAYS been wildly outgunned by management, even when management was half as powerful as it is now.
That’s the whole fucking point of unionizing, of course. To gain strength against an overwhelming adversary who would otherwise crush the individual into submission.
If, back in the day, this massive imbalance of power didn’t stop the WGA from ripping concessions out of their scabby little pincers, then it won’t stop us now, either.
It’s just going to take longer, and the battle will be far bloodier.
Sure, I’d agree, but we’ve already seen a demonstration of the extent to which the AMPTP is willing to make concessions if only the WGA shows some goodwill by unilaterally dropping its alleged roadblocks. That demonstration, as you recall, came when the WGA made the good-faith show of dropping its demand for 4 more pennies on a $20 DVD. And what the AMPTP demonstrated is that they’ll take our good-faith concession and give us nothing in return.
Why in the name of all that is holy should our negotiating team re-up for another round of that?
Now, if the AMPTP wants to negotiate some concessions in exchange for the WGA dropping the 6 points currently at issue, well, that sounds like a good thing. All they gotta do is come back to the bargaining table, which, unfortunately, they unilaterally walked away from.
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
Has anyone read the statement on the AMPTP website today? I think someone hacked into their site. Seriously.
Okay, wait. Sorry. I typed .com instead of .org. AMPTP.com is hilarious, by the way.
But Stuart, then what leverage are we left with, in the restarted negotiations, besides the economic leverage, which as you point out, isn’t sufficient? This is really a difficult situation, and I think Craig’s suggestions of 1) enlisting a powerful influence-peddler and 2) trying, somehow, to engage the DGA, are more than worth exploring– regardless of what we do or don’t immediately concede on the six points.
I also think we could restructure our internet proposal in ways I’ve blabbed about enough in other threads– discounts for first-season deficit-hampered shows, crediting internet resids against broadcast, etc.
Think about the AMPTP the way the US government ought to be thinking about Iran. Like Iran, the AMPTP includes hardliners and moderates. Right now, the hardliners seem to be calling the shots in both cases. But if we take negotiating moves and make smart concessions, we can maybe tip the balance towards the moderates, by giving them internal political ammunition. Then, maybe we get a decent deal.
Sorry, Priya, you didn’t ask, but…
Shotgun: Less than cool for a newcomer to the party to attack someone who not only pretty much lives in the house but whose contributions have generally been worthy and interesting. Credit attacks have happened here before, and been pretty fairly dismissed as tacky. In my own opinion, you deserved a pass on that since I don’t think you were here for those exchanges…but then you had to go and make that retarded “Kickassville, CA!” response to Patrick Meighan, Culver City, CA, one of my favorites.
Ranking people based on how much the strike “affects” them (even if you know) is a dangerous sport. There are plenty of non-WGA writers who are following the WGA strike rules to the letter, as if there were someone sitting on their shoulder at every minute. No queries to producers, no “just trying to get something read,” no telephone conversations they would be barred from if they were WGA… nothing. Personally, I think it’s the right thing. They understand this strike is for all of us, writers today and writers tomorrow. But start discrediting people in the same breath you (the collective) demand their support, and, well, reap what you sow.
But who gives a shit what I have to say. I’m anonymous, and haven’t offered my resume.
Working AD,
You probably should have made sure there were no writers or not recordings of the Strike A Deal rally before posting your review. The best thing I can say about your estimation of it is that you have ensured nobody will ever hire you to be a journalist. You got every single detail wrong.
Apparently, it’s considered rude to suggest your agenda isn’t on the up and up, so I’ll just settle with saying you’re not very good at relating facts, and trust that people will apply that knowledge when reading your posts.
Son, your mama didn’t raise you right if you think talk like that is an effective insult. See, me, I don’t stoop to degrading terms about a woman’s anatomy when I’m displeased. But I guess that in the absence of an effective retort, it’ll have to do for you.
To be honest, the real reason I ain’t sharin’ my real name is twofold. First off, the way you threatened our handsome host, Mr. Mazin, makes me think you might not be the kind of loose cannon I want to sic on my own production.
Second, and most important, next time I’m staffin’ up a sitcom, I wouldn’t want you to refuse to work for me. I got a good feeling about you, Pat, and I think your obvious comedy skills would be an asset to my next show.
Well, m’boy, since ya asked:
But all yer backtracking and fancy talking is getting in the way of the real issue: you think that keepin’ demands on the table that everyone knows won’t be there at the end is some kind of effective strategy.
I don’t know how to say it any plainer than this: it makes us look like it’s our first time at the rodeo. I promise you now that them directors ain’t gonna walk in asking for stuff they don’t care about, just hopin’ it frightens the producers into caving.
Oh Lord, thanks for that Natalie. Everyone else, go there immediately. We all need a laugh.
Well, you should also read the new statement up at amptp.org. You gotta love how it berates Patric twice for being at a ‘rock concert’ (e.g. the Freemantle rally) instead of at the table on Friday. It’s like he’s a fifties juvenile delinquent or something.
Hi Patrick, Thanks for replying. But… But…
what do you propose? Just striking? In the end, I’m afraid we’d lose that. (Hopefully not but as Craig points out the “gorilla” has lots of bananas). As an aside, the “gorilla” analogy as in the 1000 pound gorilla in the room has been around awhile. Where it came from, I don’t know. Maybe Goldwyn coined it, he seems to have coined everything.
Ok, back to the issue of How To Effectively Negotiate.
Well. Couldn’t I make the argument that it is NOT tipping our hand but is — CALLING THEIR BLUFF?
Call WSOP right now and get one of those geeks in to do the negotiating!
Seriously.
Maybe, again I’m missing something, but I just don’t see how we saying “if” we do this — you do this would bite us in the ass. Because it wouldn’t. They say no, we WALK.
Then it starts over. All over, again.
BUT — they MIGHT have said yes.
And like you said 9.99999% would go for that, so my question is:
Why didn’t Patric Verrone even try? Because he wants to swing his d-ck! LOL. It’s true. It’s men and egos.
Also — Mr. Verrone earns 0 as a volunteer board member but what is his day job? How does he pay his bills? Is he effectively sans an income now as well? (I don’t know, I’m genuinely asking.)
The guild is playing hardball with the House. In the end, the House wins because they hold all the cards! /analogy
If 99% of the guild would be happy with that then WHAT IS THE STRATEGY to get it? Seems to me, there is NO strategy right now other than strike! strike! strike!
I’m really, really happy to get back to the real issue. And, to me, the real issue is that unilaterally removing demands in exchange for nothing–as an act of good will–is poor negotiating strategy, especially when the other side has demonstrated that acts of good will mean nothing to them, and will not be rewarded with concessions in kind.
No, the most effective negotiating strategy is to cause the other side economic pain until such time as they are willing to make a fair deal (and to use less-essential demands as bargaining chips, with which to secure the best deal possible). If the AMPTP is not, as of yet, willing to make that fair deal (or to allow us to use said bargaining chips), it’s because they’re not yet feeling enough economic pain. So we gotta keep inflicting the pain, and make them feel not only the current pain, but sense the impending future irreversable economic pain that’ll come if they opt to sacrifice two consecutive television seasons, potentially losing viewers forever.
I have no idea what tactics the directors will employ at the bargaining table, or whether or not said tactics will win the DGA a good deal. I guess we’ll see.
I do have some idea what tactics the WGA has employed at the bargaining table the last couple negotiation cycles, and I do not think that we got a good deal. So to the extent that our current tactics represent a departure from tactics past, well, I consider that a good sign.
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
Flash Writer, please state the facts that I did not relate, as your post is unclear to me.
I made a point of reposting Josh Olson’s post and his photos to specifically underline where I felt I had made an error.
I believe that what you’re saying is that nobody should read anything I write or take it seriously. Could you be a little more specific?
It’s one thing to disagree about opinions about facts, but another to say that someone doesn’t know what the facts are.
“Luke, you’re an asshole. Daddy, go build me a log cabin.” Laura Ingalls, 1883
Whomever is behind that AMPTP.com site is my new hero for life.
Clifford – Brilliant. This is what the AMPTP is trying to do. They will feed press release after press release giving the moderates in the WGA the information they need.
Pseud – the gorilla can get food elsewhere. My point was that $200k or $300k or $1M isn’t exactly the studio telling you you are “worthless.”
Patrick – End game for you is going back to work for the AMPTP companies or getting another job. This is with or without the contract that you find “fair.”
End game for the AMPTP companies can vary. At some point, while you are carrying a sign back and forth, you will see a guy walk right by you. He isn’t wearing a suit so you may ask where he’s going and he will say “Oh, man, I just got this awesome writing job on this new sitcom starring Dane Cook. Why are you carrying that sign? What is WGA?”
It pains me to say that there are talented people out there that are willing to work for the peanuts that is hundred of thousands of dollars…even if it means they don’t get an extra 10% of $20,000 when the show they wrote is streamed on the internet. In fact, I bet they wont even care. This because you have a job that pays well and a job that you can be proud to have (beats cleaning toilets).
The AMPTP companies have options. You don’t. And, worse, the more economic pain you inflict on them (like you think is the right course) the faster this alternative becomes attractive. I may be wrong…but I aint crazy.
Keep fighting and be mad as hell. It wont change that this is the world we live in. This is reality. You really gonna hold on “unity will overcome?”
And, Patrick, there are some things that you can’t put a price on. Verrone is as powerful and important now as he’s ever been. Some times you put this kind of power into a guy that’s been powerless and you get some bad results.
First off I have to be upfront with this, other than having little or nothing to watch on the tube, this strike costs me nada, zip, zero. ALL of the very real pain and suffering of WGA members acts to my own selfish benefit since, any gains made at all, are gains I’ll enjoy if I ever have a career in the industry. So there’s no way around it, it’s very easy for ME to say this, but I still think it needs to be said.
Craig, I think you’re wrong.
I don’t think dropping even what some may think are untenable demands will do JACK SHIT.
1) I think the AMPTP wanted this strike, and got it.
2) I don’t think they have any intention at all of negotiating in good faith either now, or in the immediate future.
3) I strongly suspect that they believe that by giving NO ground, on ANY issue, at ANY point at all in the “negotiations”, they’ll be able to, if not break the union outright, at least prove once and for all that the WGA is an irrelevant anachronism (with of course SAG, the DGA, and any other unions, eventually taking their own turn on the hit list over time if they succeed in this, “round one”, of what will be a much longer fight).
4) I think that their offers are not only “serious”, but what they believe will be the new paradigm from now on out.
Unfortunately I think that if you rephrase possibility one…
“This offer is their actual bottom line, and they would rather watch the town go up in flames than budge from it.”
to read…
This offer is their actual bottom line, and since they don’t believe the town will go up in flames regardless of how long the WGA holds out, there’s no point in budging from it.
…you’re looking at the cold hard reality of their underlying strategy.
In short, I don’t think you’ve got anyone to negotiate with, and I’m not sure what to do about that.
I hope to hell I’m wrong.
Patrick
A) I agree about using the lesser demands as bargaining chips, but the whole point of that is that you then bargain with them! You don’t get up and walk away. (So, you’re kinda proving my point there.) You say, “if” we take this off, then you give us “this.”
b) that is fine in theory but is a very, very dangerous game you’re playing. You’re assuming that we can cause economic damage, and enough economic damage that will make them cave. There will be consquences to attempting this and there’s no guarantee we will succeed.
But it is tipping our hand. It’s telling them what our bottom line is, and they’ll bargain down from there.
That’s why we have no chance of getting a bump in DVD Residuals now. We indicated we were willing to part with them, in exchange for something. Well, we didn’t get that something, but now they know we’re willing to part with that DVD Residual bump, so it now has no value as a bargaining chip.
In short, we’ve been down this exact same road before, and it didn’t work out well. It’d be foolish to travel it again.
His day job, as I understood, was as Futurama writer, from which he is now no longer drawing a paycheck, on account of the strike. So now he, like me, is paying his bills via his savings. And if this strike goes on beyond the point where his savings hold, he’ll probably apply for a loan from the Strike Fund, his name will be omitted from his application (as all writers’ names are) and the Strike Fund Committee will evaluate his financial information, assess the extent to which his financial hardship is a result of the strike, and grant him a loan (or not) accordingly.
I don’t know why you persist with this implied assumption that Patric Verrone is somehow making money off this strike, but I really don’t believe there’s a basis for it.
Well, I’m not on the board, or on the negotiating committee, so I don’t really know for certain what the strategy is. But, yes, my guess is that the strategy is to cause the other side as much economic pain as humanly possible, and to continue to do so, in as many ways as possible, until the other side recognizes that it’s costing them more money to refuse our demands than it would to accede to our demands (or something close to them). Or, as you put it, to strike! strike! strike!
Yes, unfortunately, it’ll be hard, and it’ll take a while. Did someone tell you this was gonna be quick or easy?
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
You’re right, and we didn’t get up and walk away. They did.
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
Yes. The AMPTP already has a very good idea of just how much new media profit they’re going to make. How much? A whole fucking lot. Enough to fill the holds of all those corporate yachts with sold gold cock rings for many decades to come.
If they didn’t think they stand to gain billions in the coming years, they wouldn’t be risking millions now. You have to remember, corporations may seem to be complex machines. After all, they do employ a whole lot of lawyers and their attempts to obfuscate and spread disinformation in this strike have led some to the misguided idea that they have more than one issue at play here. But when you flip on the old windshield wipers and wash away all the bug-guts they’ve been throwing at us, their motivation is really quite simple to understand. It’s profit.
How much can the corporations afford to lose in this strike (and the coming SAG strike) before their PROJECTED profit margins in new media are lost?
Right now, the corporations believe that a costly strike is more profitable in the long run. Why? Because they have no intention of losing this battle with the WGA. In the end, it will be worth it to them because they will recoup the losses of this strike in the coming years with all that new media money they won’t be sharing with us.
They don’t believe we can win. They don’t want us to believe we can win, either. But we can win because we have more at stake than the corporations do. Whereas their sole interest is profitability, ours is creative survival. It’s Maslow’s heirarchy, and nature teaches us that even the weakest of creatures, when faced with no other alternative, will turn and fight for its life, even against an opponent that has all the leverage. So despite Craig’s appeal for the WGA to come to heel and turn on it’s belly, I say, screw ‘em. The only thing that will accomplish is a quick fucking gutting. Let’s get on our hind legs and fight like this is the life or death struggle it really is. Let’s show them our goddamn teeth.
There were no guarantees that we would’ve gotten health insurance, a pension, good minimums or broadcast residuals.
But we got ‘em.
And by “we” I mean very, very, very courageous and committed writers who came before us, and made the WGA what it is today.
Now how courageous and committed are you and I?
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
oops. No. I heard 9 months. I just think the guild sucks at negotiating. If they’d figured it out and won the negotiations, none of this would’ve happened.
The AMPTP knows our bottom line! It’s common knowledge. You’re telling me us leaving the table makes everything a mystery and gives us power? I don’t see that.
No, I never meant to imply that, if I did I apologize. I only wanted to make sure there was no hypocrisy, as our great and fearless leader, leading everyone to their (potential) doom. (And previous presidents of the guild have been indicted for corruption so, you know, one thinks of asking these things.)
Did you read Craig’s post regarding Reality writers? Makes COMPLETE sense to me and seems like another mistake of Verrone’s. So, we’re walking so that writers on DOG THE BOUNTY HUNTER can have dental? That doesn’t make any sense. Why aren’t they OUT THERE helping the cause then?
Subtract that shot at Craig, and I’m right there with you.
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
No, they asked us to take it off. We refused. THEY were negotiating and WE are in over our heads.
Then a bunch of doors were slammed.
But you’re right, let’s just keep reality and animation and the entire universe on the table and make no compromises. THAT’s how you negotiate.
Sounds more like all male ego to me. If women ran the world, there would be no wars.
You can “fight for your life even against an opponent who has more leverage” and “show your teeth” but that doesn’t mean you will win. Lions aren’t exactly afraid of gazelles.
Okay, you, evidently, are getting your account of what happened from anonymous AMPTP sources. Why are you swallowing what anonymous AMPTP guys say?
What follows is what actually happened, according to my boss, David A. Goodman, who was there and who–for whatever it’s worth–I’ve never seen tell a lie in the 3 years I’ve worked for him (quite an achievement, that non-lying thing, for a showrunner to pull off). Also note that David is willing to publicly put his name behind his account (which, in a sane world, would mean something, but on the internet, apparently means nothing).
As you’ll see, negotiation WAS happening when the AMPTP walked away. In a sane world, that realization will change your tune. But, again, this is the internet…
In any event, David A. Goodman’s account follows below.
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I
Since everybody’s reading Nikki Finke, I wanted to address specifically what she’s getting wrong, since I was there.
Nikki Finke’s quotes are in bold:
But the AMPTP issued demands that the writers take Reality TV and animation jurisdiction off the table as well as remove the no-strike clause in their contract. (The latter means that, if the writers settle with the AMPTP, then they must cross picket lines if the Screen Actors Guild goes on strike.)
I’m told that, after the AMPTP proposal/demands were made, the WGA negotiators went to caucus inside a hotel room. The WGA decided amongst themselves that what the AMPTP brought to the table today was a take-it-or-leave-it “ultimatum” and claimed the New Media terms were the same old/same old.
Nikki sometimes gets things right, but this is a complete mischaracterization. The AMPTP said VERY EXPLICITLY WHEN THEY MADE THEIR PROPOSALS: IF YOU DON’T TAKE ALL THESE ITEMS OFF THE TABLE RIGHT NOW, WE WILL NO LONGER BARGAIN WITH YOU. We didn’t “decide” it was an ultimatum, IT WAS AN ULTIMATUM. Also, Nikki hasn’t listed all the items THEY DEMANDED WE TAKE OFF THE TABLE AS A CONDITION TO CONTINUE BARGAINING: one of them was our demand for a distributor’s gross definition on new media. If we took it off the table, it would completely gut all our new media proposals. Another was our “fair market value” test, which keeps companies from selling things to themselves at a lower price than they could get from another company. So when the WGA reps went back to our caucus room, we had a lot of decisions to make, but WE didn’t define it then as an ultimatum, they had already made it clear that it was. We were still going to make a counter proposal in the hopes of keeping the negotiations going. However, we were all pretty clear that they were setting us up (this, I think, Nikki was right about).
Sources tell me that, after about an hour and a half, the AMPTP sent Bryan Lourd to the hotel room to ask what was happening. He was told by the WGA they were preparing a counter-proposal. Lourd was asked by the AMPTP to find out if that counter-proposal contained anything from the list of demands which the networks and studios wanted the WGA to take off the table. The WGA negotiators wouldn’t say.
WRONG. As we were discussing what to do, NICK COUNTER came looking for David Young. He asked him, in the hallway, “Are you going to take those things off the table?” David said we were working on our counter proposal, but wanted to present everything at once, he wasn’t going to negotiate in the hallway, and said we would be making a counter proposal very soon, that night. This story makes it look like we were stone-walling Brian Lourd, it’s meant to characterize the leadership as uncooperative with our mediator, which couldn’t be further from the truth. Nick Counter came and got this directly. And we weren’t stonewalling him, we really were working on a counter proposal, and also preparing what we were going to say to the members in case they walked out.
At 6:05 PM, Counter knocked on the hotel room door trying to find out some indication from Dave Young what the WGA was going to do, especially on the reality/animation jurisdiction and no-strike issues. Counter brought Bryan Lourd along “as a witness,” I’m told. “David Young answered and was visibly angry.”
They got the time right, because it was clearly staged for them to make their press deadline, the rest is horsheshit. Nick came looking for David again and tried to motion David away from Brian Lourd’s door (where Brian was standing), but David motioned Brian to follow them so he heard what Nick said. Nick then told him “We’re leaving, and breaking off negotiations. If you want to take those things off the table, put it in a letter and we’ll make an appointment to resume negotiations.” And David was not “visibly angry”, all the conversations in the hallway were amicable, if tense. This is an attempt by the other side to paint David Young as a loose cannon.
Insiders say that Bryan Lourd counseled the WGA negotiators that “this was their maximum moment of leverage” and urged them to try to “trust” the AMPTP. But they told Lourd they couldn’t at this point.
I don’t know if Lourd said this or thought this. But it didn’t matter, because they clearly didn’t expect we would take these things off the table because they had their incredibly detailed, long-winded press release prepared about how talks had broken down. It was INSTANTLY up on their website the minute Nick Counter said “We’re leaving.” this was their plan all along.
“It was an ultimatum. They said unless we take everything off the table except streaming and ESTs that they’re not going to negotiate anymore and basically they’re leaving until we’ll remove all those other things,” a WGA board member explained. “We’re not accepting an ultimatum. We’re here to bargain and to talk.”
Counter then said to Young, “In that case, we are leaving. When you send us a letter confirming you will take all these items off the table, we will reschedule negotiations with you.” The WGA hotel room door slammed shut.
NO DOOR WAS SLAMMED. I loved the hackiness of this touch. We’re running around slamming hotel doors.
Even if they were serious about us taking those items off the table, we already took DVD’s off the table with a similar assurance: you take this off the table, and we’ll bargain with you. We know how that worked out. They were not negotiating with us AT ALL. They want us to negotiate with ourselves, so we keep taking things off the table in the hopes they’ll bargain fairly, and when they finally make their lowball offer we’ve given everything away and there’s no way to get a better deal. They’re trying to divide and conquer, by making it look like the leadership is keeping the membership out on strike over issues that aren’t important to them, but THEY STILL HAVEN’T GIVEN US ANYTHING AT ALL. They want it to look like it’s our intransigence that’s keeping a deal from getting done, but it’s them.
Just wanted to clear these things up. The facts are on our side.
Anoneeemust…
I don’t think you’re necessarily wrong with this but how do we do it?
Friday they told us to remove 6 major demands at 5 pm, and then they walked out at 6pm. They didn’t give us any time to formulate the kind of response you’re suggesting.
And they’ve broken off negotiations. So how do we do what you’re saying?
“Lions aren’t exactly afraid of gazelles.”
Only because gazelles are too stupid to realize that if they charge the lions as a herd, the lions would find other prey, or drive themselves extinct.
Stooge.
No choices for Pat? I don’t think so. I am willing to bet he has something you might have heard of. Talent. You would be all over Pat if he wrote some very hot spec your bosses wanted that hit the market when this strike ends (and it will be over someday, even if it takes several months, with a deal that is better for writers than the deal we have now despite your not-so-secret-wishes that we take it in the shorts and say thank you sir may I have another).
Do you have any idea how many up and coming bright young attorney and execs and biz affairs suits I have met during the past 25 years? Guys who thought they would be the next Diller or Bruckheimer or Moonves and ended up – well, not. Do you really think that if the AMPTP wins this fight that you win? That they want to keep you around forever, moving you up and up the ladder to the King of Hollywood gig that you long for ’cause you posted on this blog during the strike like a faithful stooge? That they CARE?
As my grandmother always said, be careful when picking sides in a fight – today’s best friend may be tomorrow’s worst enemy…
Stooge said…
End game for the AMPTP companies can vary. At some point, while you are carrying a sign back and forth, you will see a guy walk right by you. He isn’t wearing a suit so you may ask where he’s going and he will say “Oh, man, I just got this awesome writing job on this new sitcom starring Dane Cook. Why are you carrying that sign? What is WGA?”
It pains me to say that there are talented people out there that are willing to work for the peanuts that is hundred of thousands of dollars…even if it means they don’t get an extra 10% of $20,000 when the show they wrote is streamed on the internet. In fact, I bet they wont even care. This because you have a job that pays well and a job that you can be proud to have (beats cleaning toilets).”
Stooge, you’re a smart guy, but you’re delusional if you genuinely believe that the companies can simply hang up a “work available for reasonable people” sign and find some great, untapped pool of writing talent ready to fill the void.
Do some time in the trenches. Some of us, before becoming professional writers, read literally thousands of scripts as story analysts. I’ll say that again — thousands. In a good month, you were lucky if you ran across a handful that had some distinguishing element to them.
There’s no question that there’s talent out there that’s yet to be discovered. This notion, though, that the companies can just “go elsewhere” and crank up the production machine again almost reads like a form of denial — or, at the very least, a lack of understanding of what constitutes viable writing.
I skimmed over the last half of the comments, so hopefully I’m not covering territory already gone over.
Lions Gate has spent more in the last few years on acquiring film libraries than on creating films, so Craig’s comment about that subject certainly makes sense.
The desire of the WGA to take over the animation and reality television writers seems, well, somewhat contrived. It’s not really for the betterment of those involved, but to increase the power of union. Obviously a more powerful union trickles down to it’s members. Now is the AMPTP really going to want a more powerful union they may have to negotiate with in the future? If I was the AMPTP, I would never give in on this. Never.
There are really only two reasons for picketing. Raising awareness and stopping production. The picket lines do not seem to be stopping production any more than the actual strike is. What I mean is, it’s the writers not actually writing that is stopping the production, not the picketing.
As for raising awareness, the fact that everyone’s favourite shows are in rerun that is raising awareness. And most viewers don’t live in Los Angeles, anyway. Those in Los Angeles would know there is a strike because there are a lot of people not working that normally would be. Does this really need to be highlighted?
To me, what Craig says about stopping picketing does make sense. Maybe instead of picketing, holding regular rallies that would do pretty much the same thing, but take up less time, would be more advantageous.
I’m sorry, I am NOT stopping picketing until I get at least one real phone number from a SAG actress. I don’t care if it takes a year.
By the way, anonymust, in case you missed the money portions from David Goodman’s account (which stand as a direct refutation of what you say above), here they are:
Unfortunately, Patrick, it’s a bet you ARE taking. Because if the AMPTP companies lose those eyeballs permanently, writers lose jobs.
The Wall Street Journal had a page one article today that pointed out that the strike offers the AMPTP companies an excuse for reforming the pilot season, escaping the practice of spending tens of millions of dollars on dozens of series pilots when they know that only a relative handful will become viable series. It’s a major inefficiency in the business model to pay all those writers and directors and below-the-line crewmembers to work on pilots that have no economic value to the companies.
My point is, your objective should not be to cause harm to the AMPTP companies for its own sake. Your objective should be to demonstrate to them that the WGA can live by the U.S. Marine Corps motto, “No better friend — no worse enemy.”
I had a long response and deleted it. Here’s an idea: come prepared. Come with various scenarios PRE-PLANNED out. And get your PR statements ready on your website. How To Negotiate with the AMPTP:
“No. We will take x and y off the table. That’s it. IF and only IF you give us x,y,z.”
You don’t caucus to do this, you do it right there and put time pressure on them. Then you say, “this offer is only good until 6:00 pm.”
Then you wait.
Then it’s their turn.
They either say a) yes and go for it. Yippee! 99.9% of the guild is happy. or b) no and then no loss, because we’re back where we’re at right now.
I would love to negotiate this. I’m a tough negotiator. The problem is, the WGA whines a lot and everyone is all up and arms and no one is playing the negotiating game.
I just believe there has to be a way to win this thing!
Az – you gotta read more regularly, as I’ve said this many times before. I have nothing to gain by the AMPTP “winning.” I am just an employee. In fact, there are probably more writers with an interest in seeing the AMPTP companies “win” (whatever that means) in that they probably own stock and I don’t. I have no dog in this fight other than “end it please so I don’t lose my job.” And I realzie how expendable I am…now more than ever. That’s why I say thank you for my check and healthcare and be on my merry way. When I don’t get what I “deserve,” I don’t quit in protest. I work harder.
The “talent” that the AMPTP companies care about are the same guys that will break ranks first. They are the guys that get paid. These are the same people with huge financial commitments which they made based on a steady stream of income. Oddly enough, the rich guys probably need the money more than the middle class guys.
You do realize that there exists plenty of undiscovered talent. I never said ANYONE can write (though I am just gonna say that I believe I could write for “Hannah Montana”). I just mean to say that there exists people who can write and who will do it on the AMPTP’s terms. After all, were all of you like plucked from birth Harry Potter style or something?
And, btw, have you noticed more or less people in the Craig Mazin camp on this site since Friday? I certainly notice a big difference in the writer-to-writer conversations.
Hold on. I’m confused here. I was under the impression that beautiful actresses in Hollywood were lining up to meet brilliant writers. I mean, look at Amanda Peat! Please don’t shatter my illusions!
Well, actually, that gives it actual value as a bargaining chip. A non-negotiable demand has no value as a bargaining chip because in theory, it can’t be traded for anything. So the DVD bump could be traded — if it had been played correctly, “we’re prepared to give this up IF…”
Right now, the six non-starter items are not bargaining chips. The AMPTP wants them removed, and so long as the WGA insists they can’t be traded for anything the WGA wants, they’re simply roadblocks. If and when the WGA proposes to give them up IF AND ONLY IF the AMPTP makes reciprocal concessions in return, then they will have value as bargaining chips. But if the position on reality jurisdiction, for example, remains at “we must gain this or no deal is possible,” then no deal will be possible.
What in the AMPTP’s current proposal represents demands that the WGA cannot accept, things that would be usefully traded for reality jurisdiction or other items the AMPTP says it can’t accept?
The AMPTP is infinitely strong. The WGA cannot do a thing to hurt it.
The strike has not harmed the companies in any way whatsoever.
No TV shows have shut down.
No greenlit feature films have been suspended.
Productivity inside the studio walls is at an all-time high. Even the attorneys are too busy to surf the internet.
The next pilot season will be the best ever.
If SAG strikes in June, that will only help the studios.
Don’t ask how. It just will.
The AMPTP actually wants to try to create product without writers and actors.
Remember: Writers are worthless and should be grateful for any opportunity to work. Demanding more than the companies wish to give is wrong in principle.
And they’ll never give more than they feel like giving anyway. They never have.
That’s why WGA members have no minimum pay scales, no health insurance, no residuals, no credit rules, no separated rights, no privileges whatsoever.
That’s why the MBA is just a blank piece of paper except for the words, “Whatever the company wants.”
History is against you. Writers have never won anything by striking. You never will.
The AMPTP is strong. The WGA is weak.
Just give up.
Clifford, give it up. No actress is going to date you. You are unemployed, remember?
Instead of name calling back and forth, why can’t anyone comment on Craig’s concerns and very well thought-out and articulate post and actual STRATEGIES to resolve this thing?
See above on what Patric Verrone should’ve and could’ve done in the negotiating room. I just don’t understand why nothing was even TRIED.
So the Culver City Kid’s bottom line is that he’s bettin’ Rupert Murdoch runs out of money before we do.
Sound strategy, son.
Hey, if SAG goes on strike, I’ll still hit on actresses, so why shouldn’t the reverse be true? I thought that was what the ‘sympathy strike’ clause was all about.
Or maybe the answer is in pattern bargaining– we could make a deal that for every DGA member a SAG member dates, another actress has to go out with an WGA member.
Just trying to think outside the box, so that this labor action can end.
Um, no… Stooge. We weren’t plucked from birth. The process takes years. Does the AMPTP have years to groom new talent? If so, more power to them.
Alternatively, you could just launch the new ratings bonanza “American Scab”, in which contestants do thirty second “readings” from their latest magnum opus for all five rapt viewers.
AMPTP Stooge Translator, all you’ve posted it’s true.
Everybody else that believes the contrary… it’s OK. Whatever gets you through the day.
Sorry, but that’s illogical, not to mention harmful. To counteroffer, you need to actually take time to read the other side’s offer and then respond to it, not whip out “Pre-Planned Counteroffers A-D” and see which one fits the best.
Any other ideas?
Clifford & Tim:
I may be able to help here… (of course, I don’t promise they won’t change the number)
As to the rest, we can argue til the cows come home on how things would’ve been different or maybe could be different.
To borrow Stooge’s analogy, when one is locked in a cage with that gorilla and only one is getting out, you have two options. 1) Wait for the gorilla to kill you 2) attack and take your chances (might get killed, but you certainly get killed the other way).
To picket or not picket, might be the question. As promised, I was there at Paramount today. Support seems strong. No one yelled vitriol at the line from a passing car, indeed the opposite. I think the line is good as it gives writers soemthing to do. Otherwise, they might spend all their time on the internet complaining…about…nevermind.
Seriously, the AMPTP left it’s flank open. It said there were two parts to its proposal and gave up one. No need to take anything off the table. Demand to see part two. After all, WGA can’t cave to an incomplete proposal.
Clifford, if this labor action will end upon you dating an actress, I will get on the phone and set up a coffee date immediately. Do you prefer blondes or brunettes? Redheads, perhaps?
They don’t believe we can win. They don’t want us to believe we can win, either. But we can win because we have more at stake than the corporations do.
Win what exactly?
Seriously, I’m not trying to be glib. Question: Do you mean the AMPTP has no idea the WGA can “win” its bargaining in the contracts?
I don’t care if anyone dubs me “ignorant” of the issues at stake. But can someone clear up one thing: Is this strike about the WGA giving its writers a fair contract? Or: Is this strike about toppling down corporations? And if it’s the latter, how exactly the members of the WGA going to accomplish this? By writing anti-corporate jokes into TWO AND A HALF MEN? By uploading features onto YouTube?
At the risk of sounding like a total prick, I swear I’m speaking from a place of confusion. I support the writers. And I truly appreciate and admire what Craig posted today.
However, at times, amid all the rancor and chaos, there’s a subtext blinking more and more loudly beneath the stage that this strike, from a WGA perspective, is about something much larger. And yet, every time a non-guild poster on this board balks they get scrutinized for not owning a red T-shirt or whatever.
We all know where the corporations stand. As for the writers . . . Which is it? Is it about a 3-year contract? A corporate take-down? A chance to set the trajectory of the WGA for decades to come? What’s being written here?
History or Contract?
I’m going with Natalie on this one. Clifford, I’m a SAG actress, I gots nice headshots. I’m married, but what the hell. I’ll date you if it will end this strike.
Great, meet me at the Van Ness gate at Paramount tomorrow, early shift. I’m the slightly paunchy Jewish guy with glasses and a red T-shirt.
No, it’s savvy. That’s what the other side is doing. But go ahead — don’t have a strategy and just strike! strike! strike!
Oh wait. That’s what we’re doing. Yeah, that’s working out real well.
And what I said was say this:
“We will take x and y off the table if you give us x,y,z. You have until 6:00 pm to decide.”
That’s called negotiating.
But you could also do nothing and strike!strike!strike!
anonceemust:
What happens after 6pm?
Then you wait.
Then it’s their turn.
They either say a) yes and go for it. Yippee! 99.9% of the guild is happy. or b) no and then no loss, because we’re back where we’re at right now.
I would love to negotiate this. I’m a tough negotiator. The problem is, the WGA whines a lot and everyone is all up and arms and no one is playing the negotiating game.
I just believe there has to be a way to win this thing!
Let me guess, the AMPTP has promised you one of their coveted golden cock-rings?
They didn’t ask. They demanded. Issuing ultimatums is not negotiating.
But think of all the reputations that could be ruined by all the petty backstabbing and gossiping!
Wait. I thought I was talking to a human being.
Are you Borg? Is my resistance futile?
I’ll lick a Klingon’s ass before I let you assimilate me. I’ve got the secret computer code to hack in and put your minions to sleep. Data gave it to me. Your integrated neural-net will be your undoing, my collective friend.
Make it so.
Anonymouse:
I think you spent a little too much time at Paramount today.
annonceemust:
Then you wait?!? You give a deadline, it passes and you do nothing? Because the third option is they choose to ignore your demand. Not no. Not yes. Nothing. You’re not secretly Hank Steinbrenner, are you?
Natalie – to answer your question to me way up above – I don’t think it’s possible to compare this strike to any other except maybe ’88. The companies have a chance to reset the residual payment structure ENTIRELY. What industry gets an opportunity to cut its costs by billions with the advent of new technology? They will fight long and hard to do it. A couple months into this strike is early, after early January I will count it the middle, toward June will be the later rounds. That’s how I’m counting. And to continue the analogy, it doesn’t have to be a knockout by one side or the other. Hopefully, sooner rather than later, we’ll find common ground and call it off.
And having just spent three hours picketing, I’ve had more time to think about Craig’s plan and more time to grow to dislike it fundamentally. I’ll try to keep the snark out of my voice, but I break it down like this -
Craig’s Plan to save the day…
1) Tell the rank and file to go home – their efforts on the picket lines don’t matter, in fact they never really did.
2)Gather up “The 400″ – as in Craig and 399 other who “matter” and then what? Tell the companies this will not stand?
3)Hire influence peddlers to work for us – so that what? We could have paid them to talk to the people they are working for now? Better off hiring Blackwater mercs to eliminate the heads of the congloms in a decapitation strike ala Michael Corleone.
4) Change the negcom – because – because – well the companies haven’t made a real offer yet, so it must be their fault and if fresh faces are across the table, maybe they will. Send them home with the rank and file – yeah you wasted your time and ours too, but thanks.
5) Sweep everything off the table that really doesn’t matter to the 400 because they’re the only people who count and their well being will mean good things for the rest of us.
I this this plan sucks. I think it’s stupid. I think it’s arrogant and elitist.
I think Craig truly believes in the guild and wants what’s best for it, but somewhere there is a fundamental disconnect between what he thinks is good for everybody and what is actually so.
I talk to many people on the lines each day. Many aren’t familiar with this blog. Most think like I do that he hurts our cause more than helps it and that his views have never represented ours. I have yet to meet a Mazin supporter on a picket line.
Craig has every right to voice his dissenting opinions and question guild leadership here and everywhere else and I certainly would never tell him to stop.
All I’m saying is that his suggested plan upset me, I don’t like it, and I don’t think it will effectively work toward getting me and my fellow guild members the best deal possible.
I hope you’re right, anoneemust. And I think your savvy “decide by 6pm or else it’s your turn” strategy just may turn the tide.
I can’t see how it’s a bad idea for our guild to bring in some professional help. How can it hurt? And if they won’t do it, why not? Because of “perception?” We don’t wanna come off as “divided” or “weak?” Is that it? Because if that’s it, that’s tartarded.
We are getting no where.
No. Where.
That’s fine. I think most of us still have a lot of strike left in us, but still… while we all have reserves of gusto, it’d be nice to see our leaders exploit all options.
How do they see this playing out? Can they possibly believe that we’re gonna hang on for another eight months hoping? Hoping that the AMPTP will do something different that what they’ve been doing every time? That’s a stupid plan.
Why not see if some outside counsel can grease a negotiation. If it goes bad, we can still stay out for as long as it takes, but at least we’ll know for sure that they were never gonna negotiate with us.
If we’re gonna stay out for the long haul, I think our leaders owe us the effort of humility. They need to check egos and try new shit because that’s what smart dedicated people do when their members are going broke.
Which I’m not.
Cuz I gets mine on the street…outta Talbott’s ass.
I’m not a man and if I was, please don’t let me be named Hank. (Maybe a good strong hacky name like Jack or something. or a cool name like Benicio on second thought, Bond would work.)
Mike Royce: if that’s your attempt at sarcasm it’s not coming through, bro.
I want us to win. Geesh. I’m just saying, can’t we negotiate better? Or do you WANT to strike?
I’m not placing blame but there is room for improvement.
Oh and Mike, right because what happened clearly was a HUGE success. Clearly. I mean, we all got what we wanted, right?
Sans, you know, doughnuts.
Malcolm, careful, you might post a novel idea that makes sense and all the robofollowers will cry shill! and march to their doom.
Zach…
“Win what exactly?”
A fair contract. One that gives us some of the Internet and does not make us feel like we drank too much Ripple and woke up naked and confused about where we were the night before.
“Is this strike about the WGA giving its writers a fair contract? Or: Is this strike about toppling down corporations?”
See above.
There would be no rancor and chaos if the AMPTP was dealing from the top of the deck.
As an active member working hard on the strike I must admit that though I have loaded many a van with said shirts I do not now or ever plan to have a red T-shirt no matter how fashionable they become on ebay or Hollywood Blvd.
“Which is it? Is it about a 3-year contract? A corporate take-down? A chance to set the trajectory of the WGA for decades to come? What’s being written here?”
Are you serious? Dude, history is never written until long after the story ends – right now all we want is a real, viable contract.
Peace,
Arizona
Get it in the streets anoneemust.
And get it outta Talbott’s ass.
That’s the only way we’ll survive this strike.
I think Craig’s main problem is that from his point of view (and, apparently, the other nameless 399 A-listers he seems to be speaking for now) this whole strike is a matter of principle. Whereas for the vast majority of WGA members, this strike is about survival.
Craig is a self-proclaimed, highly-paid, much-in-demand feature writer-director. Unlike the rest of the WGA herd, he won’t be relying on new media residuals to keep his family fed, clothed and sheltered.
He is objecting to the AMPTP’s greed purely on principle, and he seems incapable of looking at the situation from the point of view of the rest of the “rank and file” (read: middle-class) writers in the WGA.
In addition, as much as he may protest to the contrary, for someone who says he’s not interested in becoming a member of WGA leadership, he’s got an awfully vociferant way of not-campaigning.
That being said, I’m glad he posted his views. Before, we could only conjecture, but now we know for sure that Craig, who really doesn’t NEED the WGA, you understand, wants the rest of us to lay down and lubricate so that he can get back to the very important, earth-shattering, envelope-pushing, genre-redefining business of elevating and illuminating the human condition for his fellow man … by putting fart jokes on film.
That scenario would make sense if the writers they chose only yesterday decided to fire up their laptops and buy a copy of Final Draft.
However, there are millions of writers out there who have been writing for years and are ready, willing and able to take the place of us WGA writers at any moment.
After all, every WGA writer was once a non WGA writer.
How quickly some forget.
All it takes is one sale to a sig and you’re in.
So don’t act as if only WGA writers have talent while everyone outside the guild are a bunch of drooling idiots who don’t have the “talent” to churn out a Hannah Montana spec or a Dude Where’s My Car type of script.
Those are UNION jobs?!?
Stooge,
I am sorry – and glad – you know how expendable you are. I also say thank you for my check and healthcare when I am working and am happy to be on my merry way when done. And when I don’t get what I “deserve,” which usually happens when I am trying to negotiate my next deal and arguing over my backend as a writer/producer, I too don’t “quit” in protest. I shut up, take the gig or not and if I do, I do my job – which always starts with writing – which is why they pay me: to guarantee the written material first and foremost. Cause nothing happens without the script. Nothing. This is not to say producing isn’t a bitch – or that I don’t love it hard – cause I do. And yes, all work is work – but in this town, before anything happens, writing happens, and the writing is where the rubber hits the road. Just to remind you and make sure you understand, often times I and other writer producers do this with NO credits or writer fees – we do this as producers to get the gig done. Such is the biz and I am not complaining because I signed on with both eyes open long ago.
But sometimes – PLEASE PAY ATTENTION cause this is where we are now – you can’t work because some AMPTP wonk ain’t playing fair. Sometimes you have no choice but to go to the mat for your work. This too is our biz.
No writer I know wanted this strike. No writer I know wants to be out. But no writer I know is willing to settle for crumbs on the Internet while others eat steak.
If you were in our shoes, if your “team” was on strike, would I tell you that you quit?
Quit?
Don’t. Please. Just don’t.
Arizona
BTW – never buy stock in a media company – talk about a suckers bet.
Patrick,
going to one of Craig’s points about our guys not being seasoned enough to go against hardcore pros…
You said your boss WAS negotiating, and THEY walked away, right?
Our guys believing the AMPTP was really negotiating when they weren’t could be a sign that our players don’t have enough game to do this alone.
Again, I’m not saying we dump anyone on our team, I’m saying we augghta bring in some hi-powered guns…worked for the Celitcs so far.
Neither you nor I know which WGA demands are non-negotiable. Because, in point of fact, the only stated “non-negotiable demands” have been made by the AMPTP: first that the WGA remove the DVD residual bump (non-negotiable), then that the WGA remove these six more items (non-negotiable). Remember, the Guild negotiating team, on Friday night, was in the midst of preparing a counter to the AMPTP’s list of “non-negotiable” demands when the AMPTP walked away from the table. Thus, as far as we know, the WGA negotiating team considers some, many, most, or even all of the 6 issues flagged by the AMPTP to be quite negotiable. And if the AMPTP had been bargaining in good faith (which we both know, by now, they weren’t), the AMPTP may’ve learned which of those issues were negotiable that very Friday night, in a matter of minutes or hours. But the AMPTP, of course, was not bargaining in good faith last week. It was setting the WGA up so that its pre-written press release would have maximum impact.
My point was that now the DVD bump can’t be traded, because we played it incorrectly… our mistake was trusting the AMPTP not to lie to us. Our mistake was to make a concession in good faith, in the expectation that the AMPTP’s word would be kept and a reciprocal concession would be made. You saw the results. We cannot make that same mistake again, the urgings on this board to the contrary.
First of all, again, you have no idea to what extent the position on reality jurisdiction even is (much less will remain as) “we must gain this or no deal is possible,” nor do you know which of the other 5 are considered items the WGA negotiating team is unwilling to trade for other things the WGA wants. So far as either of us know, many of the 6 (including, perhaps, reality) are very negotiable, and, perhaps, the WGA might be negotiating them at this very moment with AMPTP… except that the AMPTP walked away from the table (an act that, for a reason known only to Jesus above, is now the WGA’s responsibility to rectify).
And, as you recall, the AMPTP did not issue a demand that the WGA decide to declare its jurisdictional demands (or any of the other 5) as negotiable. The AMPTP issued a demand that the WGA remove its jurisdictional demands (and the others) in exchange for nothing.
You seem to have it really mixed up as to who has been negotiating and who hasn’t.
Second, I guarantee you that not all 6 of the items the AMPTP currently declares to be “roadblocks” are of equal importance to the WGA. Some probably are eminently negotiable. One or two others, however, are probably concessions the WGA is gonna need to make a deal. So there’s no way that the WGA can offer (publicly, in the press) to drop all 6 in exchange for concessions, ’cause some of those 6 we probably need. And if, instead, the WGA decides to publicly offer to drop, say, 4 specific less-important items (in exchange for concessions) it lets the AMPTP know, loud and clear, where the WGA’s bottom line is. That’s a very clear negotiating advantage for the AMPTP, ’cause, remember the final item in the AMPTP playbook: “When you figure out the other side’s bottom line, offer a fraction. It’s surprising how many times that stands.”
I haven’t the foggiest idea. I’m not at the negotiating table. And I can’t imagine that the WGA negotiators, if they’re smart, would let it be publicly known which specific AMPTP proposals they consider endurable and which specific AMPTP proposals they consider beyond the pale, ’cause, again, that gives the AMPTP a negotiating advantage.
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
You’ve heard of those, haven’t you? Or don’t your clients get any?
Here’s what David Goodman said about this very specific point:
As you can see, while my boss (and the other WGA negotiators) were trying to prepare a good-faith counter to the AMPTP’s “non-negotiable” demands, they knew full well what game the AMPTP was playing.
They were just hoping that we, the WGA membership, would be smart enough to see the AMPTP’s game as well.
Are we?
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
I was making a joke, Luke. Feel free to not get it.
Fwiw, “Family Guy” has passed “The Simpsons” as my favorite show.
And kudos to you for keeping the faith, and not looking for reasons to fold.
Getting a third party to sit at the table during the negotations would help prevent the he said/she said bullshit which is all both sides are doing at the moment.
Also, they should all be FORCED to stay at that table until the deal is done. None of this diva-like several days off to “think about” things which only drags out the inevitable.
It’s time some seriousness was brought to the table.
Shit or get off the pot.
Hell, you want a really radical idea, take everything off the table except the ability to honor other union’s strikes.
Ah. That explains why you’re an agent and not a comedian.
And why you are not a comedy writer.
Luke
There are a lot of talented writers outside of the WGA who, if they hang in there, will get their break. I have seen it and helped make it happen time and again. But when you are trying to polish a script or are in pre-production and production and money is burning you need writers who can put out great pages yesterday, writers who can attract and keep the talent that gets you a green light – and those writers tend to be WGA writers – and that is bank.
It’s not about not being good enough to belong, it’s about being seasoned and that comes with time, practice, and gigs.
This is why we are worth paying. This is why the AMPTP needs us. We are professionals.
Arizona
Can’t one become “seasoned” while toiling away writing movies for non WGA signatory producers? There’s a whole slew of writers who are writing all those D2DVD movies that come out every week. Most of those are non WGA signatory (thus the writers aren’t going to get into the WGA with those sales or assignments) but they’re getting the experience and it’s great experience too because they’re really writing to a budget and to a schedule.
Then there are those who are toiling away in indie land.
I consider it an insult to those writers when someone comes along and says that only those in the WGA who are churning out $250 million movies like The Golden Compass have the talent to make it in this business.
Shotgun, I’m so stupid to waste my time addressing your anonymous trollings at face value, but just this one last time…
The plan is not to hope that “Rupert Murdoch runs out of money before we do.”
The plan is to cost Rupert Murdoch (and the rest) enough money so that they realize that it costs them more not to give us what we want than it does to actually just give us what we want (which, in the grand scheme of their books, is not a lot).
The other part of the plan is to make Rupert Murdoch (and the rest) confront the possibility of losing two consecutive television seasons, which will potentially result in irreversable revenue loss, in the form of altered viewing habits that’ll be tough (or, perhaps, impossible) to undo. How many more future eyeballs (and thus, ad dollars) are Rupert Murdoch and the others willing to permanently lose, in exchange for not giving us the relatively miniscule amount of money we’re seeking?
The answer to that question is where the WGA’s victory lies.
Patrick Meighan Culver City, Ca
The people representing us on the negcom are professionals. The AMPTP is not negotating with them at this point because this is a part of their strategy. Before the AMPTP walked out of negotiations (for the 2nd time), pretty much the only thing they had offered up to that point was total capitulation. The WGA rightly said no to that.
What do you suggest we do now? Propose a cage match? A dance-off? Oh, I know. How about a staring contest!
This is how strikes go, my friend. We strike. We talk. We strike some more. We talk. Lots of posturing and chest-pounding. Then we strike again. Everybody bends the truth. Both sides yell and point fingers. We strike. We cry. We keep striking. And then we strike some more. Eventually, after the AMPTP has inflicted what they consider to be maximum damage (including the collatoral damage to BTL folks) and the WGA still doesn’t capitulate, they’ll come back to the table.
Or they won’t, and they’ll try to break the union.
If this happens, then we’ll know absolutely that we did the right thing by striking, because this means that the money the AMPTP thinks it stands to gain in the coming years from new media is going to be enormous, potential profits expansive enough to risk obliterating the very people needed to create the product to be exploited. High enough profit margins for them to incur and absorb the cost of restructing the ENTIRE entertainment paradigm. Big, big profits.
What? You thought it was going to be easy? This ain’t no Brady Bunch episode we’re dealing with here. These interests coming against the union are the real fucking deal, cut-throats and cocksuckers of the cold-bloodiest fucking order, and they’ve got almost all the leverage on their side. If they thought they could still get away with it (like they did in the 30′s), they’d be busting kneecaps already.
This may not be a cage match, but in my opinion, it most definitely is a death match. We win or we die. If they win, 20 years from now, the only writers earning enough to live on will be Craig’s 400 Club. You want to go up against those odds? As if it isn’t hard enough to earn a living as screenwriter already. Every other scribe outside of Craig’s club will be scratching shit with the chickens and shitting in low fucking cotton, earning flat-rate fees in the low five-figures and clipping coupons while the corporations will continue to exploit their creative work for mountains of money for years and years and years.
I’m willing to strike for a very long time to avoid that. How about you?
“On Friday, Patric apparently said that we (that’s all of us in the WGAw and WGAE) won’t accept any contract that doesn’t grant us jurisdiction over reality writers.”
So we want the AMPTP to force reality tv people to join the WGA?
I thought we were striking to get a share of internet for ourselves, not taking away the rights of others.
This is the vibe I would hope for from all WGA members… thanks for the post, Quill.
Patric’s “quote” is in dispute. Some say he said it, other say he didn’t.
The people taking it at face value and getting in a tizzy over it, generally speaking, are a) people who have demonstrated a general, daily predisposition to to get in a tizzy over anything Patric Verrone does or says, and b) anonymous folks claiming to be Guild members and who seem be trying to drive a wedge between the Guild’s negotiators and its membership.
For whatever reason, confirmed WGA writers who publicly post under their own full names are much less likely to get agitated by our negotiating committee and the long-extant planks in our guild’s pattern of demands than are anonymous people claiming to be WGA writers.
I can’t possibly imagine why that would be the case, but I guess it’s just one of those amazing internet phenomena.
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
Luke
Where in the world did you get the idea that you need to be $250 million club to have the talent to make it in this business? Talent is not something that can be tied to a paycheck. Some very good writers make nothing for years, some average writers do very well from the start. Hell, my first gig was for Roger “what WGA?” Corman and I can promise you I lost money working on that movie (though I did learn from RC).
My point is talent will find a way. If you stay the course, most who have the juice get “discovered.”
And yes, when you work in low budget, you do get chops. But when I have some exec worried about their job on my back to get something done on time and on budget, I have to go where the sure and steady talent pool is – the WGA pool.
You seem very angry at us for being who we are. We did not ask for this fight. But we cannot back down and take a deal just to make a deal. It has to be real, viable, and worth taking.
No one I know wants to hurt the rest of the town, to bring down the man. We just want to work under a fair contract and get back to the daily grind. And the sooner we do that, the sooner everyone gets an opporunity to succeed at any level in this biz.
Arizona
Anonymouse wrote –
– I don’t think you responded to what I was saying.
I asked “why not hire someone who negotiates for a living to come in and help?”
And then you started writing all kinds of crazy things.
One thing you said was not crazy, but I believe it was wrong. You said the people who we have in the room are pros. But they’re not people who negotiate on this level for a living. However, the folks on the AMPTP side ARE pros. They crush for a living. It’s what they do. So why not bring in the equiv’ on our side?
There are big time lawyers who know both sides and negotiate mega-deals who could help up our game.
Remember when O.J. hired a dream team? Remember when Mike Tyson hired a tax attorney to represent him?
And what the fuck was that tartarded tag at the end of your post?…
…”I’m willing to strike for a very long time to avoid that…are you?”
Did you really write that? I shit on that sentence. I shit all over it then run around screaming.
Craig has incomplete information and since one’s analysis is only as good as one’s information (hi WMD!), he falls short. In the instances where I have inside knowledge, I swear to you all that Craig has misrepresented the situation.
It’s fine for Craig to have an emotional response and write whatever he wants. But as Maureen Dowd once wrote: “Sharing feelings is not the same as telling the truth.”
That’s what we did. His name is David Young. The AMPTP’s response to him is, “We can’t make a deal with him! He doesn’t understand the entertainment industry! Why he.. he… he negotiates for a living!”
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
Malcolm
sounds like you have been eating way too much bran…
Arizona
so who will you be writing for when you destroy your employer?
My guess is that my employer is way too smart to allow his flagship enterprise to be destroyed in that fashion.
My guess is that, instead, my employer will pay us the relatively-small amount of money we are asking for.
I guess that only because that’s what I would do, if I were him.
It’s only a guess, however. I don’t know for sure.
If my employer (and his co-horts) are stupid enough to allow their entire industry to be destroyed, rather than pay the WGA a relative pittance, well, I dunno what I’ll go do instead. Maybe go be a farmer or something. Or teach. I’ll figure something out. I was alive and breathing before I wrote for television, and I will be alive and breathing afterward, too.
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
az, i eat fiber with intent to crap. that’s just how i roll.
Patrick,
I don’t think David Young has ever done a negotiation like this. I confess, my source may be the infamous Craig Mazin, and if it’s not, I have to confess I may not have a source.
But if it’s true, then would you say “hey, Dave? Pat? There are guys who do this for a living…wanna get them to help out?”
And if you wouldn’t say that Patrick, why not? Is it cuz you hate the guild and are not willing to strike for a long time?
Cuz, honestly, let’s say striking is only PART of the solution to this problem. Let’s say negotiating is also part of the solution…so far that part isn’t going well and I’ve not heard a single reason why some help is a bad idea.
Malcolm
Thanks for the laugh… been a long day… think I’ll have some myself.
AZ
I DO know that Patric Verrone declared publicly [edit: according to a number of reports, just to be on the safe side] outside Fremantle that reality jurisdiction is a WGA non-negotiable. Said it out loud in public — that HAS to be in the contract.
I also know that negotiation includes more than what happens at the bargaining table. It definitely includes deciding to go out on strike — that’s a negotiating tactic — and it includes walking away from the table when you feel it puts the maximum pressure on the other side.
But I also know that a new contract between the two sides can only be agreed across the bargaining table. So at some point, the AMPTP has to come back. You think that if the WGA stands pat, the AMPTP will come back of its own accord. I think that there is a risk that if the WGA stands pat long enough, its members may run out of resources.
Offering a unilateral concession is not a good idea for the WGA at this point. But refusing to offer a reciprocal concession — and making sure this time that it’s reciprocal, rather than saying “I’m giving up this, now it’s your turn” — isn’t any better an idea, as it doesn’t move the situation any closer to resolution.
And yes, I know the AMPTP walked away from the bargaining table. I know the WGA has said it would stay at the table under any circumstances. But given that the AMPTP offered to stay at the table on Nov. 4 if the strike were postponed, it’s ludicrous to say that the WGA had no part in the breakdown of negotiations. Committing to the strike was a choice of the WGA leadership at that moment, and it had the entirely predictable consequence of triggering a reaction from the AMPTP.
You mean, the same advantage the AMPTP handed to the WGA on a silver platter when it identified six non-starters in the WGA proposal? See, it can’t work both ways: you can’t say the AMPTP is diabolically clever at negotiating if it does something you think is a basic bonehead negotiating error. The fact is that identifying something that the other side has demanded as something you cannot accept reveals NOTHING about your strategy — especially if you lie and point at something you CAN accept but which you would prefer your opponent to trade away.
As for not knowing what the WGA can and can’t accept, you’ve been on strike for a month. It seems to me you would want to be aware of what you are striking for — what specific demands your union has — as well as what you are striking AGAINST — what specific concessions the AMPTP is demanding of your union. How can you evaluate whether a proposed contract is fair and vote whether to ratify or reject it if you don’t know what proposals are on the table? Both the AMPTP offer and the WGA proposal have been publicized by the WGA.
So again, is the proper strategy to do nothing and wait for the AMPTP to change its mind, or is it to meet their demand for concessions head-on with a counter-demand for reciprocal concessions (a process known colloquially as negotiating)?
I think David Young is an experienced union organizer, but not so much an experienced negotiator.
From the WGA’s website:
News Release: July 30, 2004
Writers Guild of America, west Names David J. Young Director of Organizing
LOS ANGELES — The Writers Guild of America, west announced today the appointment of David J. Young as its director of organizing. ”A seasoned union professional with more than 15 years of successful experience directing private-sector organizing campaigns, David is uniquely qualified to address the challenges and issues associated with the Guild’s ongoing organizing efforts,” said John McLean, Executive Director of the Writers Guild of America, west. ”The Guild is committed to ensuring that writers working on reality, animation and non-fiction projects receive basic protections such as adequate minimum compensation, pension and health benefits, residuals, fair credit determination, and other economic rights.”
Young graduated magna cum laude from San Diego University with a BA in economics and has devoted his professional career to the labor movement. He served as assistant director of organization at the Laborers’ California Organizing Fund since 1999, where he successfully signed dozens of new construction industry employers to work agreements. Young also served as director of organizing for the Southern California-Nevada Regional Council of Carpenters, where he planned and supervised winning campaigns covering nearly 1,000 workers.
Prior to that, Young was supervisor of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters’ Southern California Construction Organizing Project, spear-heading a joint organizing project of Teamsters International and Local 952. From 1991 to 1997, Young served as assistant national director of organizing for the Union of Needle Trades, Industrial, and Textile Employees (UNITE), where he planned and directed major campaigns resulting in thousands of employees receiving union benefits for the first time.
Young commenced his duties July 26.
David Young has done labor contract negotiations before.
David Young has not done guild-wide contract negotiations in the entertainment industry. And in light of the way the entertainment industry’s guilds have fared at the bargaining table over the past, I dunno, 20ish years or so, I consider that a huge mark in David’s favor.
Listen, do you think the AMPTP would be working so hard to convince us to ditch David Young if they thought he was bad for the WGA’s membership? The AMPTP don’t give two poops about the WGA’s membership, and the fact that they want David Young gone is probably a pretty good hint we should keep David Young right where he is. I guarantee you, if the AMPTP truly thought David Young was out of his depth, they’d be singing his praises publicly while rolling him like cookie dough at the bargaining table.
If you’ve read many of these comment sections, you should’ve seen that I am, in fact, willing to strike until the sun burns out.
Assuming the purpose of negotiating is to get the best possible deal for ourselves, you have no idea if the negotiating “isn’t going well.” That won’t be known until the negotiation is complete, and we can evaluate the deal we got for ourselves, and compare it to the deal that was on the table before the strike began.
Here’s why: because vacillation will be perceived as a sign of weakness by the AMPTP, and will convince them that we lack commitment in our negotiating team and our demands, and can be easily waited out and will cave without the AMPTP having to grant a single concession.
If, by contrast, the AMPTP believes that the Guild membership is fully committed to its negotiating team and its demands, and the AMPTP is feeling the financial pain of the strike (and is in fear of future financial pain), then the AMPTP is more likely to give us a fair deal, in order to end the financial pain it is enduring (and prevent the future financial pain that it fears).
We just have to cause them some more financial pain, and keep causing it, until the AMPTP comes to that realization.
Sorry, but this was never gonna be quick, and it was never gonna be easy. Did you ever believe otherwise?
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
Luke, I wasn’t acting like anything. No hissy fits were had when I was called on something that was common knowledge — sorry you didn’t know it. Not much I could have done about that.
Shotgun, you’re Brilliant With Exceptions. We’re cool-ish.
Quill, that was a really great post.
The “Producers” job is to pay nothing to anyone. Anything less (or more depending upon who is standing where) is considered by them some degree of failure. They want you to feel like every dollar you ask for is an extravagant demand made by a foolish wastrel mooncalf who has no idea what it is like to be in “business”. This is how they train their young to think and behave. This is how they deal with “the trades” (you’ve noticed that I’m sure). This is how they want to deal with you (the writers). If there were 3 Keifer Sutherlands… then they could play one against the others in a circle jerk of scissors-paper-rock until they were all driving their own cars to Circus Of The Stars and throwing punches at each other on Robertson for the benefit of TMZ (owned by AOL dontchaknow). Hey, It’s a win win as far as the stockholders are concerned. I mean..THREE Keifers. At least one of them sober enough to shoot at the drop of a hat…AND hungry to boot! How cool is that?
If the strategy of your strike is to withhold your product from your employer and thus force him to his knees because he has nothing to sell…dont you have to be sure that they cannot get something of even roughly equivalent value elsewhere? Are you sure they cant find another Keifer? Is the union so confident in the unique abilities of it’s members that they cannot imagine 4000 other lit & pre-law majors mining Gilgamish and The Black Museum for twists and signing up his/her goth neice as a spicer-upper?
The net has expanded the watershed feeding the company supply lines to such an extent that they are maybe willing to risk riding bareback (www.postyourspecscripthere.com). I mean…it’s not like when the government fired all of those striking air traffic guys in the 80′s. None of those guys were allowed back in the club. They all had to go out and find jobs in the real world. In this real world, if the “companies” fired every working writer, what do you think would REALLY happen? OMG…theres no scripts!! Cmon. Get real.
One last thing. Honestly now. I dont know what sort of slot you fill..but how did you get into the business? How much of it was what you knew…and how much was who you knew? Well, the corporations hate “who you know” hiring. Nepotism and “old boys clubs” are actually against most company policies. That is really a sign of how far apart the two cultures are.
It’s a new world order..and it was born when your first “boss” gave up carbon paper. When your current “boss” can get 1000 competitive free samples of what you do delivered to his desk simply by spreading the word on the web….you have to worry at least a little.
Im not saying that is exactly how your lines will be breached…but….everyone hates a vacuum….especially writers.
T. Howell III
Shotgun Jones said:
On the off chance that you see this, Mr. Jones — this is the first I’ve heard of an offer in July, but then I throw away all my WGA mail unless it looks like a check. Could you pretty please let me know what was in that July proposal?
Aaron Porkin Eagle Rock, CA
Per his bio from the WGA website that I posted above, I don’t think you can say that David Young has negotiated labor contracts in the past — only conducted organizing campaigns. There is a distinct qualitative difference.
I certainly hope that Rupert Murdoch isn’t directing the AMPTP’s strategy personally. He’s got a history with unions, and I don’t think David Young is any match for him.
From Answers.com:
In 1978 newspaper unions went on strike at New York’s Times, Daily News, and Post production offices. Murdoch told the unions that if they returned to publishing the Post, he would later accept whatever terms they reached with the other two newspapers; thus the Post returned to full publication months before its rivals did.
In 1985 Murdoch instituted sweeping production changes in all of his London newspapers. He wanted to change from double keystroking (wherein an editor creates a page, and then a printer resets it) to single keystroking (wherein a computer is used, and the typesetting is done entirely by the editor), which would cut labor costs. British labor unions had long enjoyed special privileges at London newspapers. For instance, whenever a newspaper introduced new technology, the union printers would be paid as if there were more printers than there actually were; at the Times, it was possible for 10 workers to be paid the wages of 17. In secret, Murdoch built huge printing plants in Wapping and Glasgow, and on January 25, 1986, he began printing all his London newspapers in these plants. A long, violent strike ensued, featuring a pair of riots in Wapping. Murdoch offered a series of compromises that were rejected; the union workers eventually lost their jobs and most of their benefits, with the strike ending in January 1987. By then Murdoch owned about 30 percent of British newspapers.
Patrick, are you sure David Young has negotiated big time contracts like this? I’m SO fucking hoping that I’m setting you up for the kill here, but I don’t have 100% confidence that I am.
I don’t believe he has.
Let’s say he hasn’t, would that make a difference to you?
Look, i know no one’s gonna convince anyone of anything here, so I can only say, I see things totally differently than you. I don’t believe the AMPTP would perceive bringing in some extra help as “weakness.” They’d see it as an adjustment. And i think that I have a strong idea about how negotiations have gone thus far…they’ve gone like shit. I base this on statements from Neg Com members and BOD members. Hell, at the million man march Bowman pretty much said, “every time we sit down with them they propose some bullshit “fuck you” deal then walk away from the table and release a statement slamming the guild.” The negotiations have gone like shit IMO. I actually don’t blame our guys…not totally. I’m not sure anyone could have done better.
I just wanna try.
And, Patrick, if you wanna have a strike battle against me, you’ll lose. I’ll stay out longer than all you pansy animation writers while simultaneously taking time to shit in the face of those who post snark. You know why, Patrick?
Cuz I get my money in the streets.
I get it outta the people who get it outta Tim Talbott’s ass.
I’m never gonna go broke.
Fucking never.
Thurston….
Or would you prefer Jack Warner? No, we did not all know someone. And, just so you know, every exec I know wants us back at work. They read and have read lots of work by writers in and out of the guild. They tend to like our work. And, god forbid, if the guild ever went away, they would start by hiring the writers they know, trust and admire guild or not. The fact that the Internet is teeming with places to publish and post does not a career make… yet. Someday it likely will. I certainly see boundless opportunities there. But for now, we are it.
Arizona
PS – typing in not writing.
Lots of talk here about what Patrick said at the Fremantle rally but did people really listen to all of what he had to say? There are WRITERS on all the reality shows and the WGA already covers all of those formats. The problem is the companies are ignoring the guild and calling them other titles to get around giving them industry standard recognition and benefits. Game Shows are already in the MBA and those writers should be covered on ALL game shows, but only a few are signatory with the guild. So what is the answer…just let the companies continue to abuse them and deny them what’s rightfully theirs? How elitist of the guild members who don’t write on those kinds of shows to want to brush their rights off the table because it doesn’t directly apply to the kind of writing they do. Reality and Game shows now constitute over 25% of all programming on television. They all have writers. We can’t just pick and choose which writers are treated fairly or we become what we say we hate. If these companies are allowed to lie and cheat the writers on these kinds of shows how long will it be before that starts to happen on other kinds of programming. Ladies and gentleman, our new sitcom has no writers but we do have a large staff of “segment producers”. The WGA is not asking the companies to recognize these writers, they are demanding it. And to deny them their rights is selfish and short sighted.
I think we need to conduct a poll and ask all the “writers” working in reality if they want to be covered by the WGA – something that should have been done months ago, granted – but at least we would have some idea how popular this is with our intended future members.
No rollbacks plus a study on internet. And lots o’ people are gonna squawk and scream that a study’s just a way for them to try to screw us in a couple of years… But you know what? The internet model ain’t set yet. I myself wouldn’t mind figgerin’ out exactly what the best thing to ask for is before we start the askin’.
Let the squawkin’ begin.
Can you read for me the direct quote, ’cause I know several people who were there who heard no such declaration.
Were you there?
Or was it reported by a legitimate media source?
Could you show me the cite?
Wow, you are one credulous person, man. if the AMPTP says something, you really swallow it wholesale.
I’m here to tell you, the AMPTP did not declare those 6 items non-negotiable because those are the 6 items they most want gone. They declared them non-negotiable because those are the 6 items they determined that they could use to divide the Guild membership. The WGA negotiators know it, the AMPTP knows it, I know it, and I’m pretty sure that Craig knows it too. It appears, to me, that the only person who doesn’t know it is someone named Stuart Creque.
Now then, what you seem to be advocating the WGA do is something entirely different from what the AMPTP has done. You want the WGA to publicly and openly identify (at zero cost to the AMPTP) precisely which issues we are actually, legitimately serious about, and which issues we are actually, truthfully willing to give away (at a price, we may claim, but the value of that price will instantly drop, simply by virtue of the issue’s public identification as an expendible one [witness: DVD residuals]).
That’d be a dumb thing to do. And it really would be a direct repeat of the DVD residual exchange, which went thus: Them: “We won’t talk to you anymore unless you give up DVD residuals. But, psst, if you do, we’ll give you a good deal on new media.” Us: “Okay, we’ll give up DVD residuals. Now what’s that good deal on new media?” Them: “There is none. We were lying. But now we know that you aren’t serious about DVD residuals. You’ve tipped your hand. Don’t even bother putting it back on the table.” Us: “Damn!” Stuart Creque: “Hey, that went pretty well for the WGA! You guys should repeat that same tactic again in December!”
Quite frankly, because I’ve voted on my board representation, and I voted on David Young’s confirmation, and I went to meetings to give my input on the WGA’s pattern of demands, and I voted on the WGA’s pattern of demands, and I voted for the SAV, I believe I’ve had a great deal of democratic involvement in the choices that have been made that have brought us to this point. But I also recognize that it’s not in my interest, as a Guild member with a financial stake in this negotiation’s outcome, to have the WGA’s bottom line made public. I realize that this means there are certain details that I can’t currently be privvy to (much as I’d like to be), and I’m willing to accept that.
I understand that I’ll get a pretty full picture of exactly what we’ve been offered, and what the negotiators accepted, at the eventual Guild membership meeting that will (someday) be called to discuss the proposed contract. And if I’m happy with what I learn, great. If I’m unhappy with what I learn, I’ll vote against that contract, and I’ll vote against this board at the next election.
Near as I understand, that’s how every union contract negotiation has ever worked, basically, ever, in the history of unions. I don’t know why you’d think I’d expect this one to be different from every single other one ever.
Nice False Dichotomy there.
The proper strategy is neither of the above. The proper strategy is to inflict financial damage upon the studios, until such time as the AMPTP has incurred so much financial damage (and is so convinced of the potential for future, irreparable financial damage) that it is incentivized to finally, at long last, bargain in good faith and reach a fair deal with us.
The proper strategy is not to publicly reveal our bottom line or openly declare which WGA demands are unimportant and expendable. We’ve been there, we’ve done that, it didn’t work in our favor.
And if the AMPTP wants to engage in “a process known colloquially as negotiating,” all they have to do is come back to the table and do so. Unfortunately for all of us, they unilaterally walked away from the bargaining table. Twice. They’ve done it twice, all by themselves, alone. A choice that they, themselves, made.
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
Yes, poll the reality and game show writers if they want to be represented by the Guild. Be sure to tell them that with a guild contract they will be paid overtime for all of those 16 hour days they’ve been required to do but only paid for 8, tell them they will get health insurance, tell them they will get a pension. Basically tell them they will not be treated like sweat shop workers. I’m pretty sure that if you poll 100 reality and game show writers…SURVEY SAYS: Yes (#1 answer)
And here’s a clue…many of the reality and game writers are already members of the guild and were glad to here Patrick say they won’t be forgotten this time like they have been so many times before. The Guild finally has some balls and is not fighting to blaze no territory, they are fighting to enforce what is already there.
My understanding is that, on some desk at the NLRB sits a stack of cards signed by reality writers declaring their desire to join the WGA. That desire is, of course, being ignored by the not-exactly-labor-friendly folks at the NLRB, who were appointed by the not-exactly-labor-friendly Bush Administration.
You really think the AMPTP is resisting on this out of concern for the rights and wishes of the reality writers? Do you imagine that they gives a crap what the reality writers actually want? Like, all it’d take is for reality writers to simply declare their desire to be WGA members under WGA jurisdiction, and presto, the AMPTP will assent, just out of the kindness of their hearts, and out of respect for their rights?
That didn’t work too well for the ANTM writers, every one of whom declared the intent to join the WGA and work under Guild jurisdiction, and every one of whom was fired in retaliation.
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
That’s an awesome idea.
In ’85 we accepted that same deal and let the studios “study” that that whole newfangled VHS/DVD thing, under the assumption that the studios would cut us a decent deal once that model was set and they figured out if there was ever be any money in it.
And, boy, that worked out really well for us, didn’t it?
How’re you spending all your DVD residual money?
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
As one of those writers waiting in the wings, dying for a break, I can tell you I would not use this strike as my way in, and I’m not a pro-union guy in the least. I just don’t believe in screwing people who are trying to help me in the long run.
And no matter how confident I am in my own abilities (and I am), I wouldn’t presume I was ready to take the place of a Charlie Kaufman, Scott Frank, Steven Zaillian, Jud Apatow, Joss Whedon or many of the other great writers who are simply irreplaceable.
No, I’m not sure.
Listen, I picket in the am with Robin Swicord, who was on the ED search that ended up with David Young. She thinks the moon of David Young, and I’ll ask her what experience David Young has negotiating labor contracts. Okay?
Well, you and I really do see things differently, then.
If the AMPTP suddenly fired Nick Counter and replaced him with a new guy, would you consider it a simple “adjustment” that says nothing about the AMPTP’s own evaluation of their bargaining position, or would it strike you as a sign that the other team is having problems? I’d interpret it the latter way, and I really don’t think I’d be in the minority in doing so.
Well, I’m happy to hear that you’re determined (I guess that’s what you’re saying).
I am too.
I am willing to walk away from this business entirely rather than be party to a bad deal that’d damage the Guild permanently.
And accepting the deal that the AMPTP currently has on the table would, indeed, damage the Guild permanently.
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
Patrick, What do you think the strategy should be going forward?
How would you negotiate with the AMPTP?
A bit of hyperbole there. Millions? Wow. We’d all better get to work — pronto.
My original point was directed at Stooge who… while mounting some sensible arguments from time to time… posited a wish-fulfillment scenario in which companies could just open the gates and expect a flood of replacement writers to pick up the slack.
Yes, there is undiscovered talent out there. No, those writers don’t number in the “millions”.
The notion that somehow we should fear being “replaced” is bizarre, frankly. The fact is, and this applies to all of us, you make your own path in the biz.
If you’ve worked for any length of time as a professional, you’ve probably lost out on a potential assignment. That’s happened to me, and never once did I think… “Ah, damn it, that writer beat me.” Conversely, I never thought “I had to have been the best, and therefore these people are nuts.” There are umpteen reasons why things do or don’t come together. If things don’t work out, you fold up your tent and move on the next order of business.
As a writer, you should have reasonable confidence in your own abilities and your own voice. If you don’t, you’re in the wrong game. It’s your voice you’re selling: period. Sometimes there’s a market for it — sometimes there isn’t. But no one can replicate your voice.
I have many legitimate concerns about this strike, but the theory that there are hordes at the gate ready, willing, and able to fill every available job doesn’t stress me in the least. And it carries zero weight in terms of what I think constitutes a fair deal for writers.
Even if Stooge’s dream does come to pass, I’m in the same position I’m in now. I’ve got a computer, and I have ideas. Maybe they’ll sell…
I’m not sure about your economic theory here. A strike is a finite, closed-end cost.
A residual rate is multiplied across four guilds and is likely to be a continuing, open-ended cost year after year after decade after century.
No, there is no strike long enough to cost more than a residual rate they find to be too high.
I’ve answered this several times.
I believe that the proper strategy is to continue to inflict financial damage upon the studios, in as many ways as we can possibly think of (that don’t involve criminal acts) until such time as the AMPTP has incurred so much financial damage (and is so convinced of the potential for future, irreparable financial damage) that it is incentivized to finally, at long last, bargain in good faith and reach a fair deal with us.
In short order, this strike will be costing the studios more money than they’d pay if they simply reached a deal with us. The more money we cost ‘em (and the faster we do it), the sooner they come to that realization, the faster we have a deal.
“Sooner” and “faster” being relative terms, of course, as this whole process could very well take many months.
But I owe so much to our forebears in this Guild, “many months” is what I, personally, am willing to spend in order to repay them, and to pass a strong Guild along to the next generation of writers.
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
But there is, potentially, a strike long enough to change viewing habits permanently, such that the structural, enduring loss of audience (and concomitant ad dollars) is much more costly than a residual rate that they may, otherwise, have found too high.
That’s what I think we have to bank on, Craig.
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
If only you could have spoken with the four ANTM writers I’ve spoken with…and hear who lied to them, and hear who they blame for what happened.
Hint…it ain’t the AMPTP.
BTW, Patrick, I served on the Executive Search Committee to replace McLean, and I’m pretty familiar with David Young’s resume.
I do not believe he has ever been in charge of a collective bargaining agreement negotiation until now. This is his first gig in the position of executive director.
That fact, in and of itself, doesn’t mean he’s doomed to failure. However, it’s inaccurate to suggest that he has any body of practical experience leading the negotiation of labor contracts.
He does not.
So, Patrick, if I am to understand you correctly, your strategy for negotiating with the AMPTP is to strike?
So I’ll ask again.
How would you negotiate with them at the table to get the contract we want? (Yes, the strike is ongoing).
And I think the moon of Robin Swicord…one of the most instantly likable and lovely people I’ve ever met.
As it should happen, she voted against David Young on the ED search committee.
She may have had a change of heart since then, but I wouldn’t suggest publicly that Robin Swicord’s service on the ED search committee is some kind of bona fide for her love of David Young.
WTF? You’re going to “win” against the AMPTP by destroying television as we know it and driving the aud to the Internet? What do you plan to do for a living then? Or are you willing to sacrifice your career for “the cause?”
No, there isn’t.
The notion that a long strike will make television watching unpalatable or obsolete is simply fringe thinking, Patric.
Despite the exciting world of the internet, a network can still charge $2.5 million for a Super Bowl ad.
Super Bowl ain’t going away.
Reality ain’t going away.
News ain’t going away.
Sitcoms? Pretty much dying, if not dead. But TV keeps on going.
Movies? Go ahead. Try and kill the movies. A depression and two major wars couldn’t put a dent in them. Hell, made ‘em stronger.
If you’re betting against the ability of television or movies to bounce back after a year, or two years, or ten years…then I’m afraid I have no interest in betting along with you.
I’ve spoken with every single one of the ANTM writers. While they were out on strike, I went to the ANTM picket line twice a week, every week, with my (then) 1-year-old daughter in tow (wearing a tiny red shirt). I know that a couple of them are very angry at the Guild. I also know that many others are not, and instead blame, say, Tyra for not backing them, blame IATSE for undercutting the Guild, blame UPN for stonewalling them.
So go figure.
In any event, what does that have to do with anything? My point was not that any particular group, entity or person is blamed (or not blamed) by the ANTM writers for the outcome of their organizing fight, more than any other particular group, entity or person is blamed.
My point was simply that reality writers declaring their desire for Guild jurisdiction does not, by the longest shot, necessarily translate into an organizing victory and Guild coverage. What’s stopping the reality shows from falling under Guild jurisdiction is not resistance from reality writers. What’s stopping the reality shows from falling under Guild jurisdiction is that the studios don’t want the reality shows to fall under Guild jurisdiction, and don’t give a damn what the reality writers have to say about it, except insofar as what they say about it is disruptive enough to fire them for it.
Do you disagree with that statement?
I know you served on that committee, and I know that you opposed David Young’s confirmation as ED, and I know that you don’t believe that he has negotiated a collective bargaining agreement before.
Tomorrow I picket with Robin Swicord, who was also on that committee, and who favored David Young’s confirmation as ED. I’d like to ask her the same question, and see if she can confirm what you say, or if she has something different to say.
Is that cool?
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
You can’t possibly love her more than I love her. I mean it, there’s not many things I’d physically fight you over, but that’s one.
Well, that makes her endorsement of David Young out on the picket line last week all the more impressive, no? ‘Cause she really was singing the guy’s praises out there at the Fox truck gate at 5:30am… saying that she really feels like we’re in the right hands, that it’s just a night-and-day difference to when we were being represented by John MacLean. If that endorsement was coming from someone who originally opposed the guy’s appointment, I find that even more persuasive than if that endorsement was coming from someone who was in the dude’s pocket all along.
It appears that she has had a change of heart.
And the only bona fide I cite for her faith in David Young (“love” may be a little strong… that’s what I have for her) is in the words that she, herself, spoke to me about the job being done by David Young (again, particuarly as compared to the job done by John MacLean).
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
I have no doubt that Robin’s words are sincere. I just wanted to set the record straight on the way she voted in committee.
Frankly, I don’t think any of us were against David, as much as we were more for someone else. Frankly, I liked the other candidate so much, I hoped our membership would fail to ratify David so that we could have gotten the other guy.
Indeed, David was ratified by the lowest percentage of yes votes in our union’s history of such ratifications.
Anyway, who cares? Give my love to Robin. She’s a terrific person, and you know what?
You’re a pretty good guy too.
How about that for love?
They must not have been listening. I was there and heard him say it, very specifically
Lots of talk here about what Patrick said at the Fremantle rally but did people really listen to all of what he had to say? There are WRITERS on all the reality shows and the WGA already covers all of those formats. The problem is the companies are ignoring the guild and calling them other titles to get around giving them industry standard recognition and benefits. Game Shows are already in the MBA and those writers should be covered on ALL game shows, but only a few are signatory with the guild. So what is the answer…just let the companies continue to abuse them and deny them what’s rightfully theirs? How elitist of the guild members who don’t write on those kinds of shows to want to brush their rights off the table because it doesn’t directly apply to the kind of writing they do. Reality and Game shows now constitute over 25% of all programming on television. They all have writers. We can’t just pick and choose which writers are treated fairly or we become what we say we hate. If these companies are allowed to lie and cheat the writers on these kinds of shows how long will it be before that starts to happen on other kinds of programming. Ladies and gentleman, our new sitcom has no writers but we do have a large staff of “segment producers”. The WGA is not asking the companies to recognize these writers, they are demanding it. And to deny them their rights is selfish and short sighted.
Demanding it?? And yeah, he did say the WGA already covers all these formats, and there will be no deal without them. If the agreement already covers them, why the proposal?
I thought they struck. Led into suicide.
You rebut Patrick’s “fringe thinking” with some full-on Bedazzling.
The Super Bowl happens once a year. It’s one night on one network that’s not going away, but that’s it.
Advertisers hate reality. It’s low rent. Also, it doesn’t syndicate. The networks hate it too. Please see: http://www.mediaweek.com/mw/news/recentdisplay.jsp?vnucontent_id=1003682844
Don’t understand your point about “killing the movies.” You mean they’ll start shooting them without scripts?
And please, don’t round up statements to fit a straw man argument. Patrick didn’t argue lack of scripted material would make TV watching “obsolete,” just that it would enhance the 1988 effect. Audiences are dropping every year… are the corps crazy about helping that along in such a major way?
But Craig, you got your wish, picketing stops after Monday! Thank God because I understand you’re exhausted. Everybody who was saying picketing is useless, please feel free to do a 180 and interpret this now as weakness.
Craig, in all seriousness… you are a hyphenate, and I do hope you will help the DGA get a good deal that we will draft off of.
If we get a great deal because you guys were able to get it instead of us, well… thank you.
That is fringe thinking. It’s actually Strawman Fallacy thinking.
Let’s walk back from that fringe, toward what I’m actually saying: two consecutive seasons of scuttled television will likely result in a loss of a percentage of the televsion audience that will never came back. It already happened once, in 1988 (the estimated permanently-lost audience share that I read stands at 9%). And, remember, back in ’88 there was no televsion season actually scuttled (though one of ‘em was merely delayed for a couple of months). Also, in ’88, there was no internet which, today, is already dragging away eyeballs from the nets.
So, yes, I’m betting that, in ’07 and ’08, no network president is going to want to risk an even bigger loss of permanent audience share than they lost in ’88… which is what a two-season scuttling of television would likely deliver.
I’m betting on what I already said, above.
I’m also betting on my own determination to “strike to the death.”
Those aren’t my words, of course, they’re yours, and I’m confident that your determination, like mine, still matches those words. Assuming it does, and that enough of our WGA bretheren (and sisteren) feel likewise, we’re not gonna lose this thing, Craig.
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
Hey, you’re good too!
What a great way for me to say goodnight to you, and to your board!
There’s prolly not much more for me to say that I haven’t said a hundred times already, so I’ll quit while I’m ahead (which is how I feel, being called a good guy).
Best to all,
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
You all suck.
Sorry. Had to say that.
Pardon my Czechoslovakian, but it would take a reeking abscess of cunt for brains not to know that both sides already employ professional negotiators.
Said yo mama to you after reading your latest spec?
I’ll be here all week, ladies.
i already miss Patrick saying the AMPTP were the ones to walk away from the table. me = sad panda
Patrick Verrone is accused of the high crime of publicly stating that the WGA won’t make a deal unless it includes reality, which is one of the issues we currently have on the table. What’s the problem? He’s supposed to say that, whether he means it or not. Is he supposed to tip his hand by announcing which of our demands we really must have, and which we’ll give up? Does any competent negotiator do that? A good negotiator repeatedly declares that he must have all his demands, until it’s the right time and the right place to trade some of them off. That place is the bargaining table, not at a rally.
Frankly, I think Craig is exploiting this as part of his petty, seemingly never-ending mission to discredit Verrone. Craig just can’t stop re-fighting the election he lost. The obsession is sad and obvious. The members of the WGA elected these guys. I know Craig seems to think only the 400 most highly paid writers should have a say, but we all got the chance to vote, regardless of our earnings last year.
Craig’s invested so much emotional energy into declaring that a strike (which the companies gave us NO CHOICE but to embark upon) would be a disaster, that the result which would disturb him the most, deep down, would be for us to achieve success with our elected leaders and for Verrone and Young to be declared heroes. That would absolutely kill him. But it’s exactly what I hope happens, as should we all. Craig seems to be willing to try to sink the ship rather than be proved wrong.
Patrick Meighan,
Listen Buster, if I EVER run into you in a bar….
Your drinks are free on me, all night! You are my blog hero. It is your strong and well-reasoned voice that keeps this blog from becoming an unchallenged cesspool of destructive emotion, self-serving misinformation, propagandistic fear-mongering, power-worshiping, and panic. I appreciate the way you stand defiantly at the entrance to the fort, refusing to let the forces of capitulation inside. Keep it up!
Flickdog:
I didn’t lose any election. Not sure where you got that one from.
Not that it should matter anyway.
Craig:
To be more clear, I meant that the election(s) that brought Verrone and Young to their leadership posts went against your preference. Big time.
Ah. Yes, this is true.
Craig,
Are you familiar with the psychological principle of “Commitment And Consistency”?
Simply stated, numerous studies show that once a person makes a public decision or takes a public stand (COMMITMENT), that person will be very strongly compelled to stay CONSISTENT with that decision or position, despite new information or subsequent events. And the strength of this internal pressure is proportionate to how public the stand or decision is. In the case of an extremely strongly taken stand, which is taken in a very public way, this desire to remain consistent, and be proven right, is very often obsessive.
This is a common effect that influences almost all human beings. It’s the reason politicians and other public figures often find it emotionally impossible to ever admit they were wrong about an issue.
Like myself, you are human, Craig. And I truly believe “Commitment and Consistency” is effecting the way you view the unfolding events in our current struggle, due to your strident early stand that a strike would be a huge mistake.
That doesn’t make you a bad person. But it does make you a potentially damaging one, because you have a bully pulpit. I don’t want it to seem like I have a personal grudge against you, because I don’t. But I do believe you have unintentionally become one of the AMPTP’s better tools among the writers, though you don’t intend to be.
I think your internal conflict is vividly displayed by your high praise of Howard Michael Gould’s statement on why we must strike, while at the same time, you attack the decision to strike every time things get dicey.
Hey, Century City, we didn’t accept a study in 85, we accepted a rate. That ain’t at all what was on the table in July.
But facts are heavy things to carry around in your head while yer marchin’ back and forth, so I can understand why you wouldn’t want too many of ‘em.
Now, flickdog, you just gave me a gool ol’ belly laugh. I think that’s about the smartest thing you’ve ever posted. That theory of yours does make things a lot clearer……
…….About why Patric and David keep doin’ what they’re doin’. They made a COMMITMENT to reality and marchin’ around, and now they’re bein’ CONSISTENT, despite new information or subsequent events.
You are so right. It is the reason politicians and public figures find it emotionally impossible to ever admit they were wrong.
Damn, boy, that’s some funny stuff.
I’m still gigglin’.
Interesting. If you recall, the folks who fell for the AMPTP’s ploy on Nov. 4 were Patric Verrone and David Young, along with the rest of the negotiating committee. What does your comment say about their negotiating skills?
What I am proposing is quite different: rather than trusting an adversary that’s never shown trustworthiness, I propose that the WGA require the AMPTP to prove that it means what it says by offering reciprocal concessions — and insisting that the AMPTP put up and follow through on its side of the trade each time BEFORE the WGA gives up the item to be traded.
Now, if you think it is foolish weakness to propose the terms of a trade by revealing what you will offer for what you want to get, then I wonder how you propose to get anything. They call the process collective bargaining because it’s supposed to result in a bargain, an exchange of value. Hard to accomplish that if one side either (a) gives up a key demand without any real assurance that it will get something from the other side in return — see Nov. 4 — or (b) refuses to offer anything to the other side in return for what it wants for fear that actual bargainining might tip its hand.
If history is destined to repeat itself then the WGA will see their jobs outsourced to Mexico.
That was David Young’s result when he negotiated on the Guess workers behalf.
And that wasn’t his only defeat.
Mazin—I found myself agreeing with every single word you posted in the last month. Damn you!
I am (psych major).
As it happens, current events support my positions. When they haven’t, I’ve been rather public about it. I praised our leadership when it appeared we had created an allegiance with the Teamsters (go search for it).
That didn’t work out, but I thought it would, so they got praise.
I praised leadership when they organized the Comedy Central shows (go look it up).
I praised leadership during the first week of negotiations, when John Bowman wrote a thoughtful, smart letter to the membership (go look it up).
I supported leadership’s request for a strike authorization vote–sure, not blindly, but support nonetheless (go look it up).
Frankly, after reading your excellent description of Commitment & Consistency, I don’t think I’m the one you should be worried about.
You should be concerned about our leadership.
Look, I would loooooove to be wrong about a lot of this stuff. And I have no problem eating crow. Crow’s easier to swallow than a bad deal.
First, I agree that the strike is a necessary means of applying leverage in the negotiations with the AMPTP. Necessary, but not sufficient: the WGA also has to use the strike leverage to get the AMPTP back to the table, and not simply by waiting for the AMPTP to tire of the strike.
The Guild does not become stronger by the mere act of striking. It becomes stronger only if it demonstrates that it can win favorable contract terms for its members. If the only strategy it can come up with is striking and hoping that the AMPTP will tire of the strike, it’s entirely possible that the Guild will come out of the strike weaker than when it went in.
If the AMPTP is capable of paralyzing the WGA merely by walking away from the bargaining table, if that simple tactic has reduced the WGA to an inability to do anything other than just keep striking (besides decrying the unfairness of the AMPTP for not coming back to the table), then the AMPTP seems in a much better position to win what it wants in the eventual contract.
Argh. I’m gonna weigh in here because the whole mess of this board suddenly makes me feel like sharing.
I’m Republican. And, though you’ll have to take my word for it, employable as a screenwriter. A wonder. Hissing “Republican!” as the ultimate insult on these boards…kinda funny from where I’m sitting.
I’m agnostic. But only because I can’t prove the absence of God and, of course, “All we know is that we know nothing” (thanks Ed Solomon); otherwise, I’d be an atheist. But I respect freedom of religion.
I’m not a big union flagwaver (duh), but I’m dead-set behind THIS union.
And, perhaps most importantly, I belong to whatever group of people there may be on this board — I’m guessing not many — who actually have had near-singular authority (subject to the ultimate call of a Board of Directors) to strategize, direct and negotiate settlements of $1B+ disputes. Big dollars. Big conference rooms. Big egos. Lots of huffing and puffing.
So let me just say, in my humble opinion, two things:
1) I think the AMPTP wouldn’t know good faith if it bit ‘em in the hairy gorilla ass.
2) Giving up the now-famous “6 items” AND (my fingers shake even typing this) changing the face of our negotiating team, 5 weeks into the strike…
…SUICIDE.
Quill Me Now, Kickassville, CA!
But, because I love Craig so much, and I do, let me just say that I agree with him on a great deal of what he says in his post, so much so that he almost worked a little mumbo jumbo on what I KNOW I know about the art of negotiation… until I slapped myself.
Take everything else he said as true. Still can’t change faces today and drop those 6 items because they told us to (even if we really don’t care about ‘em). A successful result comes from a marathon, not a sprint, and hell if the companies don’t know that and make every move accordingly.
What you CAN do is change behind-the-scenes decionmakers, keeping up public appearances of Young and Verrone as status quo. Could be done, if handled very very privately and carefully. (I make no opinion on whether this is advisable or necessary.) Could also tell the AMPTP, “We recognize this group of people [formerly on both sides of the table] may be counterproductive. We are amenable to replacing the faces at the table if you are. Bye bye Counter, bye bye Young and Verrone.” Might allow the AMPTP to save face re allowing Young and Verrone to trumpet a deal after all the ruckus they’ve caused the companies.
As for the 6 items, give ‘em 6 items THEY need to drop — 6 items of comparable value to our own. Tell ‘em if they drop those, we’ll drop ours, but only then, because that’s the value our 6 items have to us. (Maybe it’s not 6 — maybe 3 of theirs, taken together, have the same value to us as those 6 of ours; I dunno.) And tell ‘em that after the DVD residuals fiasco, well, we’ll accept their commitment in writing before we drop our own. Maybe hand over letters simultaneously to a third party — whatever.
Publicly trumpeting the lack of value of our own 6 items… well, doesn’t help. But if they really hold little value, then fine, pick 6 (or 3 or…) of theirs that they should be able to live without as well.
Finally, I 100% agree with our friendly resident good guy, Patrick Meighan, Culver City, CA, that we have LEARNED (fool me twice, shame on me) that dropping something because the AMPTP said they’ll negotiate if we do, is a non-starter. Drop these 6 and skip back to the table with jingle bells on, and I hope you have a lotta lotta lotta morphine to deaden the pain of what’s to come.
Exactly.
I liked Patrick, too, he took the time to answer & respond. I want our side to win which is why I’m so worried.
Watched the season “finale” last night of the Hills. First off, there was no “finale” as there was 1) no rising, dramatic tension and 2) no tension nor drama and 3) well . . . there wasn’t much.
I am DISGUSTED that the WGA so much as gives a flying fuck about reigning in reality television. Why do they want to be associated with the downfall of Western Civilization?
Stupid question of the day: HOW MANY WRITERS ARE OUT OF WORK TODAY BECAUSE OF REALITY TELEVISION?
The last strike apparently spawned reality TV, yes? Way to go ’88 WGA! Now this one’s spawning more. And Patrick V. is saying, “We will get reality. Stay the course,” blah blah blah. How is this even on the table? Is it a negotiating ploy? Obviously, it’s about money, yes? If the guild represents reality TV, suddenly they’re getting more dues? Please, I’m merely asking.
Reality TV has single-handedly destroyed the little fabric of culture America had at one point to call its own. A few years ago when Lost debuted I for one had exhaled and thought, “Ah, America is interested in scripted television.” (Even though the show employed a narrative technique invented by reality.) Now, the WGA, who represents scripted writers, is using Reality as a tactic in negotiations?
Please, blast me all you want. But first, answer this: Is this situation not unlike PETA championing an arm of the NRA?
Lastly, I know “writers” who work for reality TV, and news alert, WGA, they ain’t writers. Which is to say many of them would NEVER get a script sold. God bless them. I admire anyone who dares work in entertainment. But most of them I know hate what they work on. Yes, they hate it. Why? Because they spend all day dangling a gigantic, deep-fried, ridden-with-preservatives potato chip in front of the audience’s face; wielding that contraption around for hours; only to spend more hours in the editing bay melding the components of that contrivance. Sorry. They don’t deserve a guild.
There’s a reason why MTV invented this contrivance. It’s called LOW PRODUCTION VALUE.
Fuck this. Moving to Europe! In the meantime, please, someone make me feel better. Correct me, please!
For any and all who want to bring X Mogul/X studio to its “knees”
Sumner “content is king!” Redstone is #86 on Forbes Richest List and worth over $ 9 billion.
He fired Tom Cruise and is now firing Spielberg.
I’m afraid, I’m VERY afraid.
Zach, the WGA doesn’t give a flying fuck about the reality and anime writers. It just wants them in the Union so when the WGA says “strike” they have to strike too.
Simple, no?
Quill Me Now:
I would agree with much of what you say if (and this is a big “if) we were still actually in negotiations.
But what if we’re not?
Because right now…we’re not. Marathon ended early. Other side took their ball and went home. And unless we do something drastic, they’re not coming back. They’re on to the next union.
Not sure what good holding all these poker chips is if there’s no one to play with.
Patrick – wait…you work for David Goodman?! Another writer?!
I thought you worked under the heel of the “man” all day?
Craig – this is why that whole labor v management thing is pointless. Especially in TV. I don’t know movies.
Gee, Zach, I’ve watched the Hills a few times and you know what that show is? It’s Jane Austen. It’s the romantic travails of the leisured class, something that’s been a staple in popular culture for three hundred years. And popular it is.
Lost, on the other hand, I have zero time for. But that’s just me. Personal taste, different strokes, etc.
You may not enjoy reality TV but the Hills has made MTV a bunch of money and the kids love it. MTV has tried a bunch of scriped stuff and most of it has failed. This is cheaper and it seems to work; I don’t begrudge them that and I don’t think it’s a sign of the End of Civilizaition as We Know It. It’s just a TV show.
There’s absolutely no reason why the people who put words in Lauren Conrad’s mouth shouldn’t be in the Guild. The WGA isn’t just for writers who meet Zach’s personal criteria for excellence. That said, I don’t think this is the time to be fighting that particular battle.
But Redstone is not immune to public opinion (note the whole Tom Cruise thing) so that works in our favor…
You do realize that once Rupert spends that money that he could have given you that he has to then dip into FRESH money to give you what you want now. That money is gone and so is that calculus. Now it’s not just about the money he lost, he has to come to terms with paying you PLUS the other guilds this extra money every 3 years. Then he has to worry about what giving in to your demands in the face of a strike does to the future of the business and future labor negotiations. Will you be emboldened to ask for more and more? Will you use the strike every 3 years? I think in light of those things, waiting you guys out is a pretty attractive alternative. Did you consider any of that?
This is why Craig says that you had your best leverage BEFORE THE F’ING STRIKE. The threat allowed Rupe to compare money lost v money spent. Once you execute, the money is gone. Now the reasoning shifts to: we are going to treat that cost as an investment. An investment against spending more money in the future. We hold firm now and show them a strike is USELESS, then this investment will be well worth it. If you don’t think this is what the hardliners in the AMPTP are thinking, you are all fooling yourselves.
This is very simple logic.
No one is saying just give up now, but you can’t seriously plan a strategy around outlasting these companies.
PENCILS2MEDIAMOGULS: It’s here! The first delivery of pencils will take place today. Over 500,000 pencils have been shipped. Please join us as we deliver the pencils to NBC CEO Jeff Zucker, Robert Iger, CEO of The Walt Disney Company, and to Universal Studios for GE’s CEO Jeffrey Immelt. Writers slated to appear include: Ronald D. Moore (Battlestar Galactica), Joss Whedon (Buffy, the Vampire Slayer, Angel, Firefly), Carol Barbee (Jericho), Alfred Gough (Smallville), Miles Millar (Smallville). We will meet at 11:30 am at Johnny Carson Park, 400 Bob Hope Drive in Burbank.
First off, thanks to those who answered my question about Reality. Seriously, I’m admittedly naive in all this.
Few more question before I shut the f*** up:
1) Who pays for these pencils to be shipped?
2) What’s the point?
2) If you were, say, Jeff Zucker, would these pencils annoy you in the least? As someone who’s worked as an assistant in Entertainment, a) he won’t even see these packages, and b) doesn’t this, to some extent, weaken the guild’s platform? It’s less punk than puerile or even provocative.
INT. JEFF ZUCKER’S BRAIN – DAY
ZUCKER (V.O.)
Oh, God. Okay. Okay. I’m fucking FREAKING out . . . okay, calm yourself, man. Stay calm. Breathe. Breathe. Where’s my guru, goddamnit! How do I handle this? All these pencils. Oh, God, these writers mean business. Next they’re going to send me 3-hole punch paper. No! Please, God! No. I HATE 3-hole punch. Wait, did I just say that last part out loud? These writers . . . they’re driving me insane!!!! I have to get the fuck out of this office. Where’s my FUCKING Xanax!?!?!
Nah. Doubt it.
Craig, the value of the poker chips isn’t only in their intrinsic value to the WGA and the AMPTP. It’s also in their value for creating external pressure.
The AMPTP has attempted to make the WGA out to be intransigent and radical by saying, “Look, we can’t even talk to you while you cling to those six — I even laugh to think it [channeling Sydney Greenstreet] — absurd demands.”
In response, the WGA can say, “Tell you what. You’re so reasonable, prove it. If you’re willing to part with X, Y and Z, we’re willing to part with A, B, and C — IF AND ONLY IF you agree that you’ll put that trade in writing and that you’ll sit back down after that trade to negotiate the rest of the contract issues across the table. What about it, Reasonable Guys?”
If the trade terms are in fact reasonable, the AMPTP loses a lot of face by not accepting — losing face in this case also exposing them to the risk of internal division and (only barely conceivably) third-party intervention, as by the kind of politicians who might actually be able to do something as opposed to make campaign appearances.
It might not work, but then, conceding the six demanded items without anything in return might not work either.
I don’t think it’s some “amazing internet phenomena.” Speaking only for myself, I can tell you that I’m tired, Patrick. I’m tired of hearing that I’m stupid, that I’m disloyal, that I don’t “get it.” I’m tired of being told that merely questioning some of our leadership’s tactics or decisions means that I’m on the studios’ side and that I should put down my picket sign and go home.
I may be new to the Guild but I’m not new to this industry. And, in the months leading up to these negotiations, I made a point of learning all that I could about the issues at hand. I’ve studied our MBA. I’ve read up on our previous strikes. I’ve listened to and considered the opinions on both sides of the aisle (for lack of a better term). If I don’t know how something works, I try to find out, either on my own or by questioning the people who do have that knowledge.
I’m third generation Union. My grandfather was a Teamster. My father, stepfather, uncle and cousin are/were New York City Police officers. I understand what it means to be on strike and that the fight is never easy.
I believe in many of the issues we’re fighting for but I have concerns. I have concerns about how we got here, what we’re doing in these negotiations and what the landscape is going to look like when this strike is over. I don’t bothering expressing those concerns on the internet anymore. They tend to get twisted around into things I never said and positions I don’t hold. Instead, I only share them with people who know me and, even if they don’t agree with me, won’t accuse me of being some AMPTP shill trying to bring down the WGA all by my lonesome staff writer self.
Personally, I think dissent can be healthy. If people are allowed to express their fears and doubts and concerns, perhaps some of those fears and doubts and concerns can be assuaged. When they get shouted down, again and again, they just become frustrated and angry. It’s that anger that leads to the fracturing of a membership body.
I’m not saying the dissenting opinion is always right. No one is always right. Not even our leaders. But every once in a while, someone might have a better idea simply because they’re looking at things from a different angle.
I think a lot of people remain silent or post under a pseudonym because it’s intimidating. Knowing that, no matter how carefully you choose your words, someone will probably jump all over you for what you’ve said. Or what they thought you said.
Being on strike can be mentally and emotionally exhausting. Talking about being on strike on the internet? It sometimes feels like setting yourself up to be punched in the face.
Kristen Reidel (Staff Writer, DRIVE, K-VILLE)
Actually, it occurs to me that the follow-up protest should use brass brads. It suggests the metaphor of “let’s get down to brass tacks.”
But it makes me nostalgic for the old days, when we used to catapult rotting dead cows into the beseiged fortresses, rather than sending in office supplies.
It’s not my dream. I don’t care. I just think that you should be aware of the fact that the AMPTP does have other options. It’s not just both sides hold their breath until something happens. It’s you guys hold your breath and eventually the AMPTP moves on. Again, this should be easy to understand.
What annoys me most is you all definitely sit around and say “this guys a hack,” etc. and then have the balls to act like you are all irreplaceable. We all watch television (I work in it and read many a scripts). It’s not exactly the height of artistic integrity. Furthermore, because artistic talent is in the eye of the beholder in many cases (not like a football player who say runs a 4.2 and weighs 300 pounds), you get this weird injection of politics. Who you know and how you interview can often trump “pure talent.” Again, this is f’ing obvious. On top of it, if you are so god damned talented then why do you fail at a 98% rate? It’s about more than talent. Like most things in life.
Why anyone has to explain this to any educated adult is beyond me.
Craig — so next month when the DGA most likely starts their negotiations, what’s gonna happen then? My thoughts are — DGA will neg for awhile with AMPTP (proving they’re not patsy’s) and will finally make their deal. Then, the AMPTP will half-heartedly throw us a bone, we won’t take it, and then they’ll go to SAG. SAG’s not gonna want to talk cause of our alliance — and then what? Would the WGA be open to using the DGA contract as a starting point? Doubt it. So then we’re gonna have to wait until July, align with SAG, and then get two more points which we could have achieved earlier, but wouldn’t have saved face.
Which is why I’ve been screaming all along about waiting to Spring to strike — who the f cares about the stockpiling! This strike would have had more force if the 07/08 season had two or clear great new shows – it didn’t. So much easier for these network guys, who’ve looked for an excuse to open up year round dev, to do it this way — cause they ALL now have to. I recently worked at one of the major networks, they talked about year long dev but never really did cause their competition was also stalling. The strike now brings an even playing field. I think the studios are looking at it this way — our house is already on fire. We wanted to upgrade anyway so let’s wait a few more minutes before calling the fire dept so we can at least collect on the full insurance.
Craig:
In my experience, hardball is not the end of the marathon. It’s a water break. Then you run on, as long as the race hasn’t been canceled, which I don’t see here that it is. The race is over when the AMPTP says, “We won’t deal with the WGA, period. Not now. Not tomorrow. Not ever.” -OR- the nuclear option, “We are at an impasse. Let’s see if we can ram this one down their throats.”
The race is still on. But a water break has been forced.
Of course, it’s an imperfect analogy because the AMPTP aren’t, in fact, the race organizers, and the WGA isn’t running along alone. Rather, the two sides are both running, in opposite directions, toward a mutual finish line. And the AMPTP has stopped running. Fine – do you stop? No. Do you move the finish line closer to them so that you have a shitload farther to run, and they can basically walk the rest of the way? Not if I were calling the shots. Instead, I’d try to find a way to get them to start running again.
I think we agree that reaching out to the AMPTP with a proposal is not the same thing as the dreaded “negotiating against ourselves.” Hence, my suggestions above. But in truth, this is often the point where a mediator comes in. Here, you’ve kind of had that – both with Bryan Lourd, and with the federal guy. Obviously you haven’t had the RIGHT mediator, but let’s assume formal/new mediation with some brand new, superbly qualified, big swinging dick is not an option.
In that case, the two-party system goes on (the absolute worst kind of system for resolving a dispute of this magnitude, and that much worse for the writers, because it is likely to considerably lengthen the time frame for a deal), and a creative comeback is called for. That should be something other than “OK.” The worst that happens is the AMPTP says no, in which case I think you are that much closer to the proof that they flat-out don’t WANT a deal – maybe ever.
The trick here is twofold: (1) get the talks (“race”) started again (which I don’t think will happen until the companies have passed the f.m. threshold and dropped the dead weight they’re so clearly dying to drop – isn’t that coming right up?), and (2) somehow do so WITHOUT putting the AMPTP in the distasteful public position of having to TAKE BACK their ultimatum. They’re not gonna do it. That’s why you find the equivalent of the 3-6 unreasonable demands the writers will never, ever live with (better find some quick, outside of the big one), tell the AMPTP you’ll do what they ask if they do what you ask, everybody wins, the agenda is whittled down, and sleeves roll up to tackle the one thing that matters. (AMPTP press release: “The WGA acceded to our demands, and pulled those 6 items off the table. In the spirit of good faith and resolving this dispute which has been so difficult for so many and their families, we have agreed to set aside x, y and z, and focus on the last remaining item in dispute, new media.”)
Are the back channels still open? And if not, what’s their status?
P.S. As for having no one to play with… In nearly every successful negotiation I have participated in, with difficult issues and difficult parties, there were periods of time where somebody left the poker table. They always came back. But they didn’t come back because they had a unilateral change of heart. They came back because (1) a mediator (or back channels) brought them back, (2) the other side put forth a creative proposal that enabled them to come back without losing face (never underestimate the importance of that factor), OR (3) external realities or pressures developed or changed in some way, and that brought them back.
Seriously, your post was amazing. It made things a little dusty around here.
Based on the DGA Negcomm’s 12/7 letter to the writer/directors who asked them to hold off, I’d say it’s pretty certain that the DGA will start negotiations by the beginning of the year. I agree with anonrighter that the talks will not go quickly. Best case, I figure at least 2 months of discussions before they go with a version of Kenneth Ziffren’s formula. So that’s roughly mid-late March. By that point, SAG should have its Negcomm together.
We’ll see whether any talks happen with SAG or WGA at that point. Either way, I don’t see the situation resolving until June. AMPTP would have no incentive to make a deal with WGA if they thought SAG would simply go out two months later. (This is something Mark Evanier has said repeatedly, and I agree with it) On the other hand, if AMPTP opens talks with SAG after DGA and negotiates for 3 more months with them, using the DGA formula as a start, you could be looking at the WGA being faced with two contracts already in place with a formula by the time AMPTP gets back to them. Carl Gottlieb is absolutely right when he says that the WGA doesn’t have to follow a DGA residuals formula. And it’s possible that SAG will stay away from negotiations even until the end of their contract to try to pressure the AMPTP to talk to WGA again. But as more months of work stoppage mount, things may look a little different.
Oh! One more thing. The DGA. No question about it: time is of the essence. That’s why I think waiting for (3) above to materialize is not a sound strategy in this particular case. (This, to me, is the potential flaw in the to-be-admired sticktoitiveness of our friendly resident good guy, Patrick Meighan, Culver City, CA.) I have yet to hear a sound explanation of why and how the WGA plans to charge ahead and get a better deal if the DGA sets something (less than desirable) in stone before then. It’s a problem. And it’s clearly an ace in the AMPTP’s very long sleeve full of aces. The WGA doesn’t have such a sleeve (but boy would they, if they got the DGA on their side. HUGE HUGE HUGE FUCKING SLEEVE.). This is all part of the face-saving: whatever the WGA’s end game is, it MUST take into account the ripple effect of the other union deals. It MUST appreciate that that is an area where the AMPTP needs to save face (to stockholders, no less). There’s no way around it. So keeping that end game in mind, focus on (1) or (2) above and get the AMPTP back to the table.
And IF YOU DO NOTHING ELSE, work work work work work those DGA relationships like the sun is about to burn out TOMORROW.
United you stand; conquered…?
Brrrrr.
RE: what Verrone did or didn’t say at the Freemantle rally, you can read Variety’s “Scribe Vibe” coverage of the event here: http://weblogs.variety.com/wgastrikeblog/2007/12/the-wga-gets-re.html
The salient portion is this: “He [Verrone] further emphasized that the guild never considered backing away from its reality TV jurisdictional demand in the current negotiation.
‘It will be in our next contract,’ Verrone told the crowd.”
As I said in a previous thread, I was there and remember him saying this. I believe the complete quote was constructed along the lines of “It was on the table on day one, it was never taken off the table, and it will be in our next contract.” That’s paraphrased.
Also from the article: “[Verrone] noted that the WGA’s leverage in the biz and compensation for all writers will go down if the expanding reality TV biz leads to ‘an army of non-guild writers’ being developed.”
I have no idea whether negotiations will best be served by fighting for reality or dropping it, but I wanted to clear up this particular point of contention.
Working AD, but wouldn’t the SAG requests be like the WGA’s?
If SAG gets a contract it would be for sure something the writers could live with, right?
Stooge,
Your argument is somewhat in conflict with your own past statements. If the “new” money is being paid out for online exhibitions of programming which, as you’ve argued in the past, cannibalizes the audience for traditional broadcasts, then arguably those online residuals will be cannibalizing existing residual payments as well. (Dead-horse case in point: No reruns of “Lost” because it’s streamed instead.)
The main thrust of the Guild’s new-media demands is simply to maintain parity (at least roughly) as programming moves online. The only reason most of them show up as “new costs” at all is because the studios pre-emptively began streaming programs without paying residuals prior to this bargaining cycle. Asking for streaming residuals is hardly a money grab; streaming things without paying anything is in fact a money grab on the companies’ part. (I know you would argue that, if anything, it’s actually a case of the networks grabbing money from the studios, since they’re pressuring them to bundle streaming rights with broadcast rights without any additional payment for it. Which is true for the moment, but is unlikely to remain the case as the value of those streaming rights increases.)
One might argue that seeking higher rates for downloads than for DVDs is a money grab, but distribution costs would likely decrease far more than residual costs would increase as business shifted away from DVDs. That would be a case of a (slightly) smaller increase in profits, rather than any kind of net loss.
But say the Guild is correct that its package as proposed would cost an additional $150 million over three years. That’s using the percentages specified in their initial demands, which we both know are unlikely to stand. If they’re saying 2.5% now, figure something like 1.2% when all is said and done. Or to make it even easier, just cut the end result in half: $75 million over three years, give or take a bit.
Multiply by 10 for the other unions (I think the actual multiplier is 9, but what the hell), and you get $750 million over three years. $250 million per year to pay everybody.
Like I say, there are many offsetting gains that stem from moving things online as well. The loss of two TV seasons has to hurt more than that. (It may be a one-time cost, but it’s a big one-time cost…)
And we haven’t even factored in movies yet. How much money will be lost by not shooting the Da Vinci Code sequel alone? And do you believe we’ve seen the full extent of the damage to movie production already, or that there are more cancellations/postponements yet to come? (I think one would be foolish to guess the former.) And there’s no viable equivalent of reality television that can be used to offset those losses.
It would be nice for us if the losses were much larger and came much faster, of course, but I think it’s insane to characterize them as an “investment.” Lesser of two evils, maybe…but there’s a tipping point somewhere along the line where it won’t be the lesser evil anymore. I think that point is significantly closer than you’re suggesting it is.
josh, I honestly don’t know. And if you listen to some of the voices here and elsewhere, my comments are not to be trusted. So I guess you should take them with a grain of salt.
SAG doesn’t even have its Negcomm selected yet, nor have they done their W&Ws. Until they do that, we can project that you’re probably right about their requests, but we haven’t actually seen them yet.
Quill said:
I don’t think Craig believes that he’s giving up those 6 items.
I think he’s been saying, since at least as far back as October if not much earlier, that “It’s about the internet, stupid.”
I think this big argument here is just a new set of justifications for trying to get others to the same conclusion, that it’s about the internet.
I have a suspicion that when he saw DVDs tentatively thrown back on the table after Nov 4 he pulled out his hair and said “It’s about the internet, stupid.”
I also suspect that when he heard that reality/animation was tossed back on the table last week (or that it was pointed out that they were never off the table) that he really pulled out his hair and wanted to scream that it’s about the internet.
People seem to love their military analogies in all this, talking about morale, courage, and Chamberlain — but if you have any actual military experience you know one thing: you achieve victory by focusing your strength on a single clear point. And you achieve catastrophic failure by spreading yourself thin and opening multiple fronts.
Working Ad — you’re one of the most respected posters this site has, don’t let a few of ‘em put you off. I’m always skimming to see your input!
Pseud – There are no repeats of LOST because they air all new episodes one after another for the fans, not because it streams. They literally don’t have air time. Don’t rely on anecdotal evidence to make a general point. Every other show takes repeats and still streams.
I don’t think I’m contradicting myself by saying it’s an investment, because one show stops getting residuals in one or two years. LOST will hit syndication. Residuals will be paid off of those runs. No cannibalizing. The only cannibalizing is of the network’s revenue.
Until syndication goes away, there is no offset. It’s all in addition to your existing residual scheme. And the WGA refuses the concept of crediting new media residuals.
What’s funny about this debate we are having is the focus of new media residuals. I think your leadership has other more important interests right now. Mainly, reality and animation jurisdiction.
The damage you cause is permanent. Once revenue is lost, it’s gone. The more money that these companies lose, the more intriguing it is to look at that lost money as an investment for the future. One where guilds are completely passive. We should also remember that for the studios you really aren’t costing them money. Studios deficit each and every production. So you are hurting downstream revenue, but actually helping the bottom line right now. Believe it or not. Networks are harmed, but they aren’t AMPTP signatories. In many ways they are just collateral damage as well.
And always remember the $750M (using your example and you should know that the AMPTP claims its counter meant $130M — http://www.wgaeast.org/index.php/articles/article/1145?startnum=&sort=&letter=&wgc=76#wga1145 –which is more than the $75 you would take now…what’s standing in the way of this deal I wonder) is every 3 years FOREVER. That’s a lot of money. Not to mention that there is a benefit to making sure the strike only causes pain and suffering for writers with no other benefit.
Wait — does this mean that it’s in the WGA’s interest to have truth intermingled with innuendo?
I think he must have misspoken.
sppeterson:
My “suicide” conclusion was a commentary on the ultimate outcome of the strike, not that the WGA would be killing itself to be without those 6 items (at the end of the day).
Agreed, Craig’s position has been consistent.
My posts above are focused strictly on strategy, with an eye toward reaching an acceptable outcome at the end of the day. There is great danger in looking at something like this 6-item ultimatum as something that “today we could agree to and not be substantively worse off” — because it is certain that “if today we agree to it, substantive difference or no, we WILL be strategically (and materially so) worse off.” If that happens, the WGA stands to lose a lot more than 6 of its side-show demands.
Mistake #1 in any negotiation (and war, too, right?): attributing to the other side any of your own qualities/viewpoints/strategies. It’d be great if we could assume the AMPTP would negotiate fairly and reasonably on the one thing that matters if we were to demonstrate our fairness and reasonableness by admitting it’s the one thing that matters, but fairness and reasonableness are, perhaps like civility, in the eye of the beholder. Their world is not ours, their considerations are not ours, and their reasons are not ours. Whatever signal we SEND, the signal they will RECEIVE… is weakness.
Kristen Reidel,
Thank you so much for your post. You and I have a lot in common. Like you, I’m a lower-level drama writer who has had, from the beginnings, serious concerns about our negotiation strategy, and also what the post-strike landscape will look like. Like you, I discuss these issues freely with friends and acquaintances in the guild. (Who mostly, one on one, tend to agree with me).
Unlike you, though, I just don’t have the guts to use my real name online. Emotions are high, and, as I’m sure you know, the job market is tight enough as it is for us lower-level types, and I don’t feel like I can afford non-anonymous candor with total strangers, even though I know that using one’s real name imparts more moral authority to a post.
Anyway, thank you again. If I meet you on the line, you’re getting a foot massage.
Stooge,
Two questions, though:
1) How much new revenue will streaming bring in, every three years, FOREVER? Why do you always speak of streaming residuals as if they were purely a new cost, an outright loss, rather than one of the costs of gaining access to a new and growing source of profit? (Or if “profit” is too strong a word, let’s at least say a new source of money, accruing toward an eventual profit…I hear you on the deficits that most shows end up running.)
2) I agree with you that it’s intriguing to view lost money as an investment toward the future, once the money has been lost. It hasn’t been lost yet, and that’s my point. One might equally consider avoiding those losses altogether to be an investment for the future.
The day that that money does become an irrevocable sunk cost, our leverage does diminish; no argument. But that piece of our leverage comes with a pretty high sticker price for the companies.
If that was being said sarcastically, then I agree with you completely. Our debate here on this blog probably has more long-term relevance than the statements being made about either of those issues….
In the Technology section of today’s WSJ is an article on The Internet and The TV…about the failures todate to bring them together, and what the current thinking is in solving the problems then have encountered. And in the entire article, not one mention of the WGA or the strike. While the WGA screams they want a piece of the internet pie, and while the AMPTP keeps screaming they want in on the revolution, I think it is much more likely that both of these two old dinosaurs will become extinct and the future entertainment world will be populated by entirely different players. And that is why this whole strike is absurd. The guild could have viewed the new media, not as an extention of the old media, but as the basis for completely new thinking and a completely new MBA. Two years ago, some of the guild members suggested that this new MBA for new media should have been discussed and workshoped and developed by the guild (and outside experts and partners such as other guilds and various independent program creators). But that was not the agenda that Patric and Young wanted. They wanted to confront the AMPTP and make they pay up for imagined past crimes against writers…as if we were victims who were being held in salvary. So instead, we became prisoners of process and the past. As a result we are sabatoging both present earnings, and the opportunity to create a much more economically dynamic business model for the future.
Sure there will still be movies and tv shows and sports and Wheel of Fortune and Cops. At the same time, the future artist writers filmmakers investors distribution systems will look at the dying old beasts and want nothing to do with it…they will want nothing to do with Les Moonves and Patric Verone and Nick Counter and David Young because they are all old farts who don’t understand the future or they’d already be doing it.
I’m focusing strictly on strategy too.
I didn’t say it well in my previous post, but the reason giving up those 6 points is okay, is because we shouldn’t be focusing on them in this contract period anyway. Instead of fighting three wars poorly we should be fighting one war well.
And if you want extra stuff laying around so that we have something to give away during negotiations, that extra stuff ought to be higher internet rates — that way we have more room to come down.
I think a lot of people here, including Craig, are operating under a flawed idea, which is that the companies are EVER going to offer us a fair deal on the internet without:
a) SEVERELY testing our mettle and determination by trying to break our unity, and finding out whether we’ll hang together for the long haul or splinter.
b) Seeing if they can set a precedent for the type of deal they want to make by negotiating with the DGA.
They are going to do these two things no matter what we take off the table. Even if we took the six items off the table and they sat down with us again, it would be another fake negotiation, and they would find another reason to throw their hands up and walk away, then they would still move on to talk to the DGA, and we will have exposed our weakness and thrown away leverage for absolutely nothing…AGAIN.
People here keep searching desperately for an easy way out when there is no easy way out. The enemy has surrounded the fort and they DON’T take prisoners. Survive the long seige or die. Those are our options. (There go more of those military analogies again).
By the way Craig, the instances of praising guild leadership you sight were mostly on points you never took a public position against.
Another thing to rememebr about LOST reruns, since it comes up a lot (and Carlton Cuse has brought it up publicly), when it was rerun in a traditional way, the ratings stunk, given what an expensive and popular show it was. I think it did a 1.5 the last few times before ABC yanked it. Which sucks, not just for the writers who don’t see that first rerun check (though as Stooge points out, they will get that check, and more, down the line when it syndicates, even though the syndycation value for Touchstone will have probably diminshed because of the EST and streaming and DVDs that will have corroded the audience.) But it also sucks for the network who can’t milk that first rerun on an expensive show (I’m sure the license fee is steep, even with self-dealing). It just sucks for everyone. It’s a sucky business atmosphere for scripted television. I’m not sure Young and the negotiating committee get that.
It’s less of a sucky business atmosphere for movies, I guess, since though plenty of them don’t recoup, they aren’t made on this deficit model. Then again, while I kind of understand the urgency for settling TV new media issues in 2007, I never really saw why movies couldn’t wait until 2010. Anybody know anyone who’s paid for an online movie stream or download? I don’t, though maybe I’m too old.
And while I’m rambling: Isn’t it funny how, a couple years ago, everyone was up in arms about how the shrinking DVD window was going to kill theatrical exhibition, because movies were having a bad year? Now, movies are having a good year, but the DVD window keeps shrinking, but you don’t hear anything about it. That’s irrelevent to this thread, but it’s kind of interesting, in terms of the larger business issues this strike is about.
For more on the WSJ story, please check Craig’s next post (Dust Up)… I put an article and a good audio link there early this am.
Happy reading/listening.Arizona
sppeterson:
Good post. I kind of feel like Craig when I say, I would agree with much of what you say if (and this is a big if) we weren’t down this path already. I wish they had consulted you before the strike. But since we’re where we are now, I am still of the opinion that since we built this crazy house of blocks we chose to make camp in, we’d better dismantle it wisely.
The question with the six items is whether we’d be “throwing away” leverage or using it to our advantage. As Quill, or somebody, already stated, bartering our tangential demands for theirs is not the same as throwing our demands away. If the other side agreed to lose some of its own never-gonna-happens (and I have no idea whether they actually would) and returned to the table on that basis, then even if the actual “bargaining” that followed was pure pretense — nothing more than a way for the AMPTP to score a few PR points before they broke off again to talk with the DGA — the items they’d taken off the table would remain off the table thereafter. We’d have that many fewer battles to fight later on, when they got back around to dealing with us. Which they must do, eventually.
And there’s always the off chance, however slim, that they might begin to bargain in earnest once we’d gotten down to just the core issues. (I know, I know, but the benefits of storming off in a huff aren’t quite as high once you’ve run out of those secondary items to horse-trade over.) Either way, it doesn’t cost us any more to trade those things away now than it will later. Emphasis on “will.”
A resounding “YES” to what flickdog just said.
I don’t understand these discussions about the WGA’s faulty negotiating strategy. Our “crazy” negotiating strategy was to ask for a fair and reasonable deal. I remember going to an outreach meeting almost a year ago when a very well-respected and successful TV writer attacked Patric Verrone and the Guild for not making a “a more outrageous offer and asking for the fucking moon!” Patric’s response was that we hoped by acting like responsible professionals, we would have a quick negotiation.
The AMPTP has yet to negotiate with us. Our choices so far have been to (1) accept their offer of a three-year internet study and cost-of-living bumps, (2) continue working while they stalled and made a deal with the DGA (which was always their plan) or (3) strike.
You can all argue about what you would have done on the other side of the table, but to me it boils down to one simple question: would you have accepted the three-year study and walked away? If the answer is yes, then please continue to whine and bellow. If the answer is no, then please realize that you’d be in a similar situation to the one we’re in now.
John Ireland, a few days ago I posted:
“While the WGA and the AMPTP are fighting for a future that doesn’t yet exists, Curly Larry and Moe — all south of 25 — will take over the world.”
Glad you agree with me.
Here’s an example of how the six items could specifically be bartered away, mostly to our benefit:
–Trade reality and animation jurisdiction for some kind of move on made-for-internet jurisdiction. This is the most critical issue facing us today by far. Lose this one, and all our residuals and everything else we’ve been arguing about mean dick in the long run. The future of our industry will simply set sail without us — or actually with us, many of us (since we’ll need to go where the work has gone sooner or later), but without our union to cover our backs when we get there. Please join me in appreciating how thoroughly that would suck. This one is life-or-death for us.
–Trade the fair market value proposal for the permanent death of “promotional” streaming. We’d win more than we’d lose, by far, over the next three years by doing this. And we could always bring it up again in 2010.
–Trade the “industry standards” and no-strike clauses for whatever’s left over on the AMPTP side that we absolutely can’t live with. (I’m not sure what all else they still have left on the table at this point. Separated rights? Other stuff? Does anybody know for sure?) Maybe try to get them to throw in a “conscience clause” in exchange for us getting rid of no-strike.
–And regarding distributor’s gross…well, I’ll just admit it: I’ve become weak and allowed my mind to be poisoned by the sinister whisperings of AMPTP Stooge. Either that, or his explanation of the issues surrounding this just made sense in the end. Throw this one away (or trade it for residuals on movie streaming, or whatever we’re still missing), and come up with a livable residual scheme based either on what the studio earns or on total viewership. (The market will ensure that those two things travel together over the long run, so either one should work.)
I do realize that the combination of all of the above would mean greater exposure to sweetheart deals between various tentacles of the same companies, and that certainly doesn’t thrill me, but that problem has existed for years, and I don’t think we’ve found a viable approach to solving it yet. I’d love to hear any ideas anyone has that might work. I’m convinced, however, that the solutions we’ve proposed this time around won’t.
For now: Get jurisdiction over online production, make sure we keep earning residuals, make sure we get paid for the reuse and sale of our work. Accomplishing that would be more than enough of a victory in my eyes, this time around. Bring up the other stuff someday when we’re not fighting for our lives.
Yeah, speaking of that, anyone know if that crazy upwards adjustment of the low-budget threshold is still in the AMPTP proposal?
My favorite sentence all day.
P.S. What’s up with this site? I haven’t been able to feed my addiction for hours now. Has it been under construction? Are we supposed to be doing something else with our time?
After the strike is settled, will there be a grand unmasking party where the real people behind the blog handles will be revealed? I’d like to meet you folks — but I live in Northern California and have a day job, so I can’t come out to the picket line, where I’d have met some of you already.
Ewww.
You must be a big hit at the singles picket over at Paramount
Please don’t tell me that there are actual singles picketing lines. This is a joke, right? Please?
Funny you should bring this up. The parallels to the war in Iraq are quite creepy.
Hard-liners get elected into office.
The hard-liners decide that the time has come to re-visit an “old conflict” with a ruthless tyrant.
The hard-liners lie about “the need” for war. (Residuals? Right. Try jurisdiction.)
The public votes to give the hard-liners the authorization to go to war, but only as a last resort.
The hard-liners go to war anyway under false pretenses.
The war turns out to be ill-conceived from the start.
Dissent by the public is seen as un-patriotic.
The war drags on at a heavy cost.
The innocent pay.
Stooge, take a breath. I’ve never said… on any message board… that someone was a “hack”. I’ve never weighed in on the subject of who’s doing the best writing, or where anyone can find the best writing. I’ve never said anyone has more “talent” than anyone else.
I wouldn’t presume to lecture you on the legal aspects of the business, so it’s intriguing to me that you – the guy who’s so annoyed at perceived elitists among the writer corps – feel comfortable weighing in with your own assessment of the state of writing. You’re the one who could write “Hannah Montana”… no?
I like my writing. From time to time, other people have said they like it as well. Sometimes that results in employment. Huzzah. And that’s as far as it goes for me. I don’t want a parade.
What I’m trying to convey here is not that writers believe they’re so “great” that they can’t be replaced. Hell, that happens all the time during the normal course of events. See… it’s something we’re used to. It’s a normal, day-to-day reality in the biz. That’s why credit arbitration exists.
That’s also why the threat of being “replaced” by some newly discovered writer corps carries so little weight for most professionals. It’s a business thing — not an ego thing.
I’m also a fan of good writing. If, by some chance, events lead to an influx of previously hidden talent, I benefit from it too. More good movies. More good television. Yowza.
All I’m saying is, I’m fine with the notion of more competition. It’s not going to influence my views on what constitutes a fair deal. On what planet does that equate to “I think I’m irreplaceable”?
I think there was a one-time singles thing. I’m not really big on the theme pickets– I think it sends the wrong message.
Which reminds me, a cop friend of mine told me tonight that it’s perfectly legal to obstruct a vehicle for thirty seconds on the street, even if you’re technically jaywalking. Just something to keep in mind.
This is all so sad. To say we are striking the studios and the networks for the future is funny when the odds are ten years in the future there will be no networks or studios in the forms we know them, and most likely, because of this strike, no guild as we now know it.
The truth of this strike and fight, though few want to admit it, is that there are two good sides to this story. Two very good sides. For all the ranting and raving about how much money the ‘pig execs’ make, there is equal talk on the other side to be had about how much Larry David and David Kelly and their ilk bring down. There are pigs drinking on both sides of the river. The fact is there as many multi- millionaires on our side as their side.
The WGA wanting to bring the animation and the Reality into the guild on it’s own will is as much as a see through power grab as anything the ‘moguls’ have tried. It’s all about power and having lots of it.
Yes, they’re rotten to the core these ‘moguls’. Guess what? Time is not on their side in the same way it wasn’t on the record execs side. We won’t need them in a few years. Our kids won’t need them. They’ll be able to distribute with smaller companies that they build. They’ll sell less and make more. They’ll live in the world of the long tail. Small well funded little companies will be able to make and market TV and movies and make a nice profit for themselves and their artisans. There will be many, many of these companies. Start building your plans for them now.
Time isn’t on the guilds side either though, because it won’t be long that people that are working writers, won’t be able to be led around and riled up by people that aren’t working, aren’t ‘creators’ and aren’t willing to take a risk with their careers. The fact is some people in this business are employees. They are talented no doubt but they have no risk, sleep easier, take the check, enjoy their weekends more and have much less skin in the game emotionally or financially. (If this last paragraph pisses you off, think hard about why it does.)
This is a murky time for our business. The ground is shifting, and the truth is that blindly following the WGA ,or blindly listening to the Studio bosses are both fruitless journeys. We need to think about how to build new companies. If we really believe we are the ‘creators’ and that ‘nothing happens without us.’ then we need to act like it. We need to prove it.
The real truth is the reason we are in this fight is that the WGA is unhappy with the reality of this medium as it stands today and that’s that we’re just one cog in the whole wheel. One of many. ‘Creators’ are well paid. Seinfeld, Kelly, Cherry; All extremely well paid. Employees? Staff writers, assigned writers?; Nicely paid but not as well paid as ‘creators’. Why? Because in this business after the writer you need an actor, a director, a producer, an exec, a programmer, and a marketer. We need a lot of help. We’re not writing novels. We’re one of many no matter how riled up we get.
People that don’t like to hear or read that need to either live with it, or change their lives. Create new worlds. You can do it right now and so will your children that you claim to be striking for be able to as well.
You want this to be about the internet? (That’s what we were sold this strike was for.) Sit down and deal only with the internet. You want to strike for reality and animation and the right to picket on other strikes, or in other words over how much power the WGA has? It’s a waste of time. Spend the same money and energy on putting your heads together and thinking about how to get ready for the future the smart way.
I’m sorry. A lot of you have been following a lot of ‘leaders’ that don’t have your best interest in mind because they don’t have their own minds around the reality of the situation.
We should be as mad at them as we are at the ‘moguls’.
In short, for my money, they all need to go. I know this kind of talk pisses a lot of people off, but a lot of people need to start getting pissed off. I’ll picket and chant for a fair deal. I won’t do it because it’s time to show who’s the boss.
It’s time for us to become the boss. It’s time to bushwhack. In fact, it’s never been a better time.
I’m all for the union and what it’s done, for health care and residuals, but I think we need to sit down, make our best deal, and then go to work and figure out how to drive them out of our business altogether. Until we do though, let’s not kid ourselves about who we’re mad at. We’re mad at ourselves. We know the truth.
Mike Binder
… so it was suggested somewhere today (on this blog? craig? LAT) that we need new voices on the WGA neg com. So here’s my pick — Mike Ovitz. I know — obvious but sorta not, huh? And so 1994. I know, I’m lovin’ it and breakin’ out my Friends dvd’s which I really don’t own but nice metaphor, huh?
“Here’s the thing” — we need an agent (what writer doesn’t?). And we need a big time agent, but no current CAA or UTA agent is gonna do this for obvious reasons (wouldn’t make business sense as they work with studios on daily basis) which is where Ovitz comes in. “Retired,” he’s got nothing really at stake now (okay, except his Disney portfolio). He’s repp’d writers (obviously). And, um, “gets it.” Not saying replacing anyone here, just throwing in new blood and with Ovitz, they’ll be blood.
Why would he do it? He needs an Act3. Enter redemption. And instead of using “Art of War” on his art dealer, he can use it where’s he most comfortable — here in good ol’ Hollywood. How great would it be to have him on our side and he can finally stick it back to the studios for a post Disney, pay-out final jab. I know, it’s Ovitz — hey, I’d want him on my side. It’s time to play dirty.
It’s a pure cost because the STUDIO doesn’t see revenue off of this, because, as I have said, the rights are bartered in exchange for loosened exclusivity restrictions (getting DVD’s and EST out faster). At some point, the Nets and Studios may get into a big dust up over this if the streaming revenue becomes substantial and eats into DVD, EST and syndication. I have said this so many times, your interests and the studios interests are absolutely aligned. For you to get hurt, the Studio has to be hurt. The only way this dynamic changes if Networks no longer exist. Look, there is a reason the WGA wont take a % of a Studio’s revenue for streaming, but they will for EST. They know the Studios get no money and they don’t want a portion of nothing. For EST, they know they do. Why else is 3% of the STUDIOS’ gross acceptable when someone buys an episode from iTunes, but not when someone goes and streams it with ads imbedded on ABC.com?
Also, interesting fact, did you know that Apple takes 50% after costs of all revenue, right? This is why NBC and Fox started Hulu.com.
Kristen,
Very eloquent post. The difference between you and, say, Craig:
You’re not doing a point by point breakdown in a public arena. If you are, you’re keeping it very private.
You’re on the line every single fucking day. You may not love it, I haven’t met anyone who does, but you’re still out there. Again: every single fucking day.
When you do speak of your discontent — we’ve talked about — it’s with the same eloquence that you exhibited in your above post.
And, I’m SO not rubbing your feet. Sorry.
Did you know that Hulu’s already been hacked?
http://www.openhulu.com
Apple may take 50%, but at least they know how to keep people from stealing stuff.
Thank you Mike Binder. Rational words at a time when the red mist of revenage drives the masses to the ramparts. And Craig, like Mikal Gorbachev, tries to urge his guild and the industry toward a velvet solution.
Sadly, it is the process that is the problem. Like trying to fight cancer with a heart attack. It doesn’t matter which disease wins, you’re still dead in the end.
Wild suggestions? We’d better start considering them– the wilder the better. If not, the strike will meander into May and a lot of folks will be in financial ruin or close to it. The picket lines will consist of two leathery rich guys with halogen white teeth, their young female assistants, and some autograph hunters. That’s when a deal will be offered– probably not good, but good enough that the starving membership will jump at it– no, not the noble rich guys and trust fund brats, but the ignoble pleebes with kids and Camry payments. Not only do we screw ourselves, but SAG, and a bunch of other below the line folks who have been deemed dead weight by the studios. We need to make a deal sooner rather than later.
Not saying we should eat shit and thank the producers for serving but let’s at least take the distractions off the table– animation, reality, sympathy strike. Verrone should make a public announcement that goes something like, “Okay, all picketers off the streets. AMPTP? Lets hammer a deal out and let everyone have Christmas, whadya say.”
Let’s say the DGA hammers out a decent deal with AMPTP shortly after the new year.
Now, I realize a DGA deal would suck a little blood from an already bleeding WGA leverage at that point.
However, then there’s SAG . . .
Questions:
Say it’s early spring. And WGA balks at the DGA deal that was just made. Then the WGA joins hands with SAG (who will obviously have remained in solidarity with the WGA), would the WGA leverage suddenly spring back to life, as they will now posses the threat of striking with SAG on June 1st?
If so . . .
Having first-hand witnessed WGA limping on its last leg from a long winter, would SAG dare strike? If so, could the WGA entire strike press on int July, August?
Or, is a SAG strike neither rational nor on the horizon? And if that’s the case, then does in fact the imminent DGA deal determine the degree of the slippery decline along which the WGA will be potentially (around mid-Jan when DGA nails a deal) about to slide?
Thanks in advance for any answers.
Stooge,
That makes sense so far. If you don’t mind answering a completely ignorant question (I’m assuming you’ll know this, and I definitely don’t), how does this all work with regard to a traditional rerun?
I guess it’s several ignorant questions, actually:
Does the studio’s initial license agreement with the network include the right to air some number of reruns (whether that right is exercised or not)? Or does the studio get an additional payment for each rerun that they wouldn’t have gotten otherwise? If it’s the former case (rerun rights are bundled in with the initial broadcast rights), who makes the decision about whether/when to rerun an episode? Can the network decide to do so unilaterally, or does the studio have to sign off?
The reason I ask is because I’m wondering if this, too, is a case where the studio is required to pay a residual, but the network is making the decisions that cause it to be owed (or not owed) — which seems to be the crux of the problem where the streaming proposal is concerned.
I should add that what the Guild has proposed during the first year of streaming (a payment for every X number of viewers per quarter) makes a lot more sense to me than what they’ve proposed afterward (payments based on percentage of distributor’s gross). I don’t understand why they want to switch to a completely different payment system after a year. That seems weird.
Anyway, I would think that under a pure payment-per-however-many-viewers residual model, the studio would simply structure its license arrangement with the network along those exact same lines, to ensure that if something got viewed an unexpectedly high number of times, they’d be assured of taking in enough additional money from the network to cover their increased residual obligations. (And now that I think of it, the very same thing could even be said of a distributor’s-gross arrangement….)
I am in absolute agreement with you about the inherent flaw in an arrangement that forces the studios to pay residuals based on revenues they aren’t making themselves. But I guess what I’m asking is, if their interests are truly aligned with ours, why aren’t they asking for/insisting on a cut of those revenues, too? Why are they granting the network the right to make (theoretically) limitless amounts of money off of a program in exchange for a fixed payment?
That rambled a little; I hope it made sense. Bottom line, what’s stopping the studios from making the same demands that the writers are making? Because to my untrained eye, it sounds like they’re getting screwed in exactly the same way we are.
(Maybe part of the problem here is that if the studios’ reward for giving away the streaming rights is the ability to sell DVDs and downloads sooner, then our interests aren’t so aligned any longer. Because we make a pittance on those sales, and they make a killing. Perhaps if our interests were more closely aligned in that area, we’d be more amenable to sharing the pain with them where streaming is concerned…)
Thanks again for all your postings on this subject; it does help to clarify (at least for me) why some of these impasses keep arising and seemingly never getting resolved….
double post…
Zach –
IMHO, if the DGA hammers out a deal right after the holidays (it will) and the WGA is still out when the SAG contract expires, it will be bleaker than bleak. Further, if SAG then votes to go out in the summer, consider it an complete collapse of Hollywood as we ever knew it.
Nobody from either side — WGA/SAG/IA/DGA or AMPTP could withstand that long a walk out. Hell, the economy of the state of California would be turned on its ear. Let’s hope we don’t see that happen.
If somebody can confirm: ALL members of SAG — working and non-working — have full voting privileges. If that’s the case, all of those part-time (and one time) actors, many with “nothing to lose” are more inclined to vote for a SAG strike. If there is truth in this, I would encourage SAG to clean up its bylaws to prevent such a turn of events.
BTW, on an unrelated issue… Is there any truth that when the AMPTP walked out that Patric Verone wasn’t there. Instead, he was at the Spice Girls Concert at Staples Center? If there is truth to that rumor, I hope he pays the price for demonstrating his priorities.
Sorry. I guess it’s my turn to spread (or confirm) some rumors…
Isn’t it awful watching your own house burn down? Isn’t it worse realizing you started the fire? The good news is…there’s plenty of money to pay the staff’s salary. Not the staff that Patric and David fired or pushed out…not the staff that had a strong knowledge of the guild’s history and the ways of the business. The staff that’s getting paid (while you aren’t) is the staff of labor organizers who don’t know beans about the entertainment business but that were brought in by Patric and David because they knew how to run strikes. Of course David doesn’t have much of a track record at winning strikes… just causing them. Now I’ll bet some here might accuse me of being the Grinch. Me and Nick Counter. But in your hearts you know where this mess began and who began it. Now the question you have to ask yourself is, is this the way I want to spend the next three months…and before you answer read the story in Variety…about the writing jobs that won’t be there when this is over…even if it ends today. The shock waves from the 5 month strike in ’88 went on for two years…the faux strike of 2001 sent whole sections of the business to the bottom of the sea…and now we’ve got David and Patric and the red shirt Hugo Chavez wannabes urging you to not put out the fire but to add more gasoline. Of course its your house thats on fire…so you might want to think about it.
It varies. Basically, a Network gets 2 repeats for its license fee of each episode. Anymore after that means the Network must pay the Studio extra $$$, but they still can take more. Networks also have the right to repurpose episodes (meaning to take a run on a sister station pretty quickly after the Network broadcast). There are limitations like keeping the repeat in the same time slot, etc.
Remember, though, licenses vary from Network to Network, so I really don’t know if one way is the predominant way.
For streaming, there are major limitations in place. Check out the Network websites for streamed episodes. You will figure out pretty quickly what those limitations are. Why does ABC.com not have every GREY’S ANATOMY episode? There are very specific limitations. Some Studios don’t even allow it. The most flexibility will be where the Studio is owned by the Network. For a non-affiliated Studio, you are looking at probably 30 days from original broadcast. Seriously, go peruse the websites. Has anyone looked at what is actually being done? So there are limits.
As to the other point….the Studios have to face bad leverage situations too. Networks are making less and less money on the Studio’s content. The Studio’s are trying to hold the line with the license fees, because their costs keep rising and, therefore, their deficits. So, the answer is…they have to. Just like the WGA, the Studios have to swallow a bitter pill sometimes. The other truth is…they know there is no money off of it. See what I mean about your interests being aligned. The Studios made this determination “we got something out of this and there really isn’t much money in streaming. We certainly don’t have the right to stream ourselves, so we will take the risk that our syndication market is hurt. We kind of have to.”
I’m probably a bit too late to a 300 + reply article, but reading all the posts got me thinking (yeah, I know – bad idea …)
About the rush to strike. Can anyone explain to me, if the AMPTP did not want a strike, why they did not pull the “no residuals/3 year study” until after the 90% vote? Everyone knew that was going to get a yes vote from just about any writer not named Counter.
As far as “winning” this strike: ain’t gonna happen. Never was gonna happen. This is a strike about not getting beat so badly we die. We accepted we were going to get beat long ago. Craig and others are still arguing strongly for it. Take Reality, Animation, DVD bumps, etc off the table. Just try to hold onto jurisdiction and residuals in New Media (which is the stupidest name every. It is not New Media. It is Turbo Charged Cable. It is still coming to your house via wire or dish with little electro bits turning into moving pictures in your living room. It is old media, with links and more ads.)
All we are doing is trying not to slide all the way back to GO. No one will “win” this strike. Certainly not the writers. This walking is just a more colorful part of the negotiating process. As a mediator I had to deal with recently on a personal matter explained: If everyone goes home feeling a little bit screwed I’ve done a good job. Writers should be praying for “a little bit screwed.”
About picketing. Why would we stop? To show we’re an arm chair union? Because the good will to the AMPTP will get us..? Because the few trucks, IATSE guys and others who have not crossed will not cross the imaginary line that would be there if we weren’t too lazy to walk? I don’t understand the “it just pisses them off” argument. It pisses them off more than a series Exec Producer not showing to cut his/her show? Nothing would be dumber than not walking. Is it futile? It it boring? Sure. Could it be more effective? Probably. Should we stike cineplexes? Maybe. But to simply not show up anywhere, day in day out, would be insane.
Now to the DGA. I know it will piss writers off that the Director is going to white hat in to save the picture … again. But I think (and hope) that is what will happen. I hope that Mr. Up and friends will use the loud, unkempt, smelly writers as their nose tackles and come dancing in behind – dashing QB-like – to grab – well, touchdown is only in the movies – a nice 3 yard gain in long field goal range.
The DGA could save AMPTP face and WGA ass. The Studios get a second chance with the league of gentle-folk before facing the truly desperate SAGers. If they can make a good enough deal (TV writer-wise – meaning the key New! Media!(tm) stuff, which is what, Craig rightly notes, it’s all about) then the Showrunners will force David and Patric into accepting the pattern and WGA will be able to get out of this unholy – and unavoidable – mess.
Meanwhile, we walk, file some lawsuits and pound the table. I don’t mind being a bad cop as long as the good cop gets me internet jurisdiction, resids for streaming, and an espresso machine in every cubby. You listening Mike?
Oh, and Craig, tell that inter-geek to wait until our organizers take on vid-games! Why isn’t that on the table. That’s where the REAL money is!
I think it would be a mistake to retool our proposals in any way whatsoever while the AMPTP is playing us this way.
I should assume that anyone reading this blog is also reading unitedhollywood.com, but just in case you are not, please read the entry about animation and reality. Don’t be so convinced that your own personal definition of “reality” and “animation” is the definition that the companies are using, or will use in the future. There may come a day when those definitions are expanded to include material that you once thought was the sole purview of traditionally scripted or live-action material. Beware of any backdoor exemption that the companies are demanding. They will use the language against you to exploit it. They will use the creative executives who are your friends to deliver the news, and you will have zero legal recourse. I have experienced this firsthand.
Stooge,
This just keeps getting stranger and more interesting. (Your mileage may vary on the latter point…but thanks for coming back and laying this out, in any case.)
The thing that strikes me here is that while studios’ and writers’ interests may be aligned in principle (especially if you believe, as I do, that we’re extremely unlikely to ever succeed in getting a cut of the distributor’s gross), our actual rewards are not. Or at least not to nearly the same degree.
The first question that occurs to the starry-eyed idealist in me — although it’s arguably more a question for my Guild than for you — is why the studio gets paid upon the purchase of rebroadcast rights, but the writer only gets paid a residual if and when those rights are actually exercised. In the scenario you mentioned, if the studio has effectively been paid up front for two repeats, it seems odd that the writer’s compensation for them is dependent upon whether the network actually decides to air the repeats or not. Presumably, the studio isn’t going to give the network a refund if they don’t end up airing them, so why is the writer’s cut of their money being based on programming decisions that neither the writer nor the studio has any say in?
I believe you’ve mentioned elsewhere the kinds of complications that arise when a bunch of different rights are sold in a bundle — how is each individual item in that bundle valued, especially if some pay residuals based on a percentage of their value and others don’t? — so I’ll just note the existence of that worry here, rather than rehash the whole discussion. But it seems like a big problem.
I have to argue with your assertion that there’s no money in streaming. Clearly there’s some; it may be a tiny fraction of broadcast at the moment, but it’s certainly not zero. At times I get the sense, and correct me if I’m wrong here, that you’re using “no money in streaming” as shorthand for a more-complicated statement that network broadcast revenues have been dropping over time, and streaming doesn’t yet make enough new money to offset those losses. Hence, the studio may see a looming reduction in its own license fees, and agree to give away the streaming rights, in part, to stave off having that conversation for a while longer.
It makes sense, but the studio’s and writer’s interests are only aligned here to the extent that they both benefit from higher upfront license fees. Which the writer doesn’t, in any direct way. Especially if rights that could/should be viewed as a form of “reuse,” for which residuals ought to be paid, are being traded away for an upfront payment whose size has no bearing on the writer’s compensation.
(Just for the record, I’m not saying that all streaming from day one should be considered reuse, either; I’m a believer in the initial residual-free window, in principle. Whether 30 days of streaming should all fall within that window…well, reasonable people could disagree there, I guess.)
Lastly — kind of off topic, but hard to resist bringing up — don’t the differences in the streaming arrangements for various shows, as you’ve described them, lend rather strong support to the Guild’s contention that studios are in fact prone to give a lot more things away, and bargain less aggressively in general, when making deals with “their” networks, compared with networks owned by other companies? (Which, again, would be a case where their interests may differ profoundly from the writers’…)