Charlatan's Web

So my first question is…when I move out to California, will you, a professional screenwriter, want to give me that entry-level job? =D

You’ll have to fight the guy I have now for the job, and he’s really big. :)

Early on I read all the books I could find, in part because it was a lot easier to read books about screenwriting than to actual sit my ass down and write. I am now just graduating from college and can say that 99% of all my teachers had nothing to offer beyond what you would read in a Syd Field book. Some had prior expierence, but given that most classes have 12-20 people in them it was almost impossible to get in-depth feedback and instruction. For a new writer who isn’t just looking to win the lottery but actually wants a career, finding a person to help or mentor them is the best option in my opinion. However, that is easier said than done. This is why those same people end up taking countless classes…mentors who actually know what they are doing and will take the time out of their careers are simply not easy to find.

I’d imagine this is the one of the bigger draws of the Nicholl and Disney Fellowships. You win money, recognition, but also access to working writers,producers,executives who work with you on making you better as a writer.

If the day ever comes where all the major movie studios and FOX,NBC,ABC,CBS,The WB,UPN,HBO,FX and all the other TV networks have their own writing fellowships then maybe you’ll see less of the “how to be a screenwriter” seminars etc.

Hell..they might even start making movies that aren’t based on comic books or old cheesy TV shows.

I read the books and I love reading scripts (I am always looking on Daily Script, Drew’s and the others.. infact I just finished Sideways). I agree that reading the actual work itself is the best…for books, I just have to pass my hand over the cover now and I soak it all in like osmosis

Craig, thank you for this and can I offer a big AMEN!

I would agree with what someone wrote earlier, however, that it is hard, very hard, to find a mentor. I would like one, but most of the writers that I meet are either earlier than I am in their development or just not good writers.

Can you start a big brother, big sister program for fledgling scribes?

Interesting idea. Not for me, not yet. I’m still too fledgling and any questions I had would be too brain-dead to even bother with. What about, though, the WGA mentor program they mention on their site? Is that still actually up and running?

craig

yes. that’s what i see. facsimiles of scripts. written by students that have read a couple books. as pro credits are lacking in pseudo gurus, talent is lacking in their students. as prominent ‘teachers’ produce perfect facsimiles of a script (properly formed crap, with all the right elements in the right places), their students produce imperfect facsimiles.

when the student doesn’t have the goods and his teacher doesn’t have the goods, the results are weak.

how to fix problem? off top of head - move to la and start working in the industry (sweep the floors, take phone messages, lug cable around a set) whatever. but, please, make sure you have the raw material first. please. the bad scripts are killing me. wannabes in living rooms in their home towns far away from the real world (la), who write a couple hours a month, please save your scripts

In my other life, years ago, I ran the film production company of a guy who had changed careers, having been the most important guy in entertainment one way, he then decided to become the most important guy as a producer

The single, most well known teacher of scriptwriting today, same guy you’re talking about, was in pitching and even then he sang a good song. I gave him something that I was noodling over for him to play with and asked him to make it work. He came back with what to this day remains an enigma. How, even then, could he have the reputation he had (let alone today) and do the work he did is beyond my comprehension.

People - JUST WRITE! Write all day long if you can afford it. Write at night or in the morning if you can’t afford any other way. Write a lot. Then, try to imagine all the people who wrote a lot and you’ll start seeing that you all wrote the same thing. So then FIX IT!

See movies. Read a lot. Be current on news and have entertainment passions. Opera, Indie Films, old Heinlein or Doc Smith books, poetry, Hong Kong Cinema, the Greats, Anime, Graphic Novels, Comic Books. Talk to people who are writing stuff.

FIGURE IT OUT! You want to write? Then do it all. Hustle a job in a production office or on a lot. Make it your mission in life to meet people who can show you the ropes. Then make them want to show you the ropes by being good to them, too!

Make relationships with non-pros between jobs. Find out who’s at the coin-op laundry and get to know them. And the guy who sits in the corner in your Pizza place. Try listening to his ravings for a while and then try to talk to a lunch eating cop or medical technician. Nobody’s as smart as you and you shouldn’t have to do any of this except if you don’t you’re a schmuck for missing the whole point.

You want to create life, you need to know life. Then write whatever the hell you want and maybe it’ll look like something besides another briliant billion dollar idea.

Just my opinion.

What gets my cackles up — oh, they’re up! — are the pay-for-notes services out there. As in, I’m a working screenwriter living in Iowa… send me your script and for $5/page, I will give you comprehensive notes just like you’ll get from a studio reader! I think most of these notes services are quite sketchy… mainly, because I don’t think they’ll ever tell you that the IDEA of your script blows.

Fielding’s post made me think of something else. Hollywood speaks the language of movies. If you want to write in Hollywood (and I know some of you say you don’t, so you can disregard)… then you need to see every movie you can get your hands on… the good, the bad, and the ugly. A typical hollywood notes or pitch meeting will have a variation of this exchange…. “What tone are you thinking about for the over-all feel of the movie?” “Well, it’s more like OUT OF SIGHT than GET SHORTY. You know, clever and cool but not winking-at-the-camera cool.” Or you’ll get “You know the way Karl Malden looks at Brando in that scene in ONE-EYED JACKS… that’s what we want this scene to feel like.” Or you get the opposite… “We do not want this movie to be another SWEPT AWAY.” Anyway, you get the idea. See everything.

I’ve taught screenwriting so this is one subject I have a lot of opinions about.

I’ve noticed that novice screenwriters are commonly told that “your first script will be shit” and that it’ll take them 10 years or 15 scripts or 250 thousand words, whichever comes first, to be any good. True or not, this is just the wrong kind of message for aspiring screenwriters. It suggests that they need to slave over their desks for years, literally, and churn out exercise-script after exercise-script.

The system they had in old Hollywood was pretty good, not least because the they tried to turn novices into functional screenwriters as fast as possible. After all, they had to pay writers.

Okay, the studios always hired people who were writers to begin with (novelists, journalists, playwrights). Novices were taught the craft by producers and experienced sceenwriters, in a kind of apprentice system.

Before TV the studios were a bit like TV: they had to churn out films at at steady rate for the cinemas - which they owned back then. So scripts just had to be written, there was a constant pressure on. Some writers just didn’t show any aptitude for screenwriting and fell by the wayside, others did and went on to have careers.

The old studio system is past history but I think it still holds true that the best way to ‘train’ screenwriters is to involvee them in some kind of apprenticeship-situation and ideally put them under pressure too. Like: Shooting will start in 3 weeks so you absolutely have to get this script into shape no later than now.

This is basically what I was attempting to do (on a very small scale!) when I was teaching screenwriting. I should mention that I’m not a screenwriter by vocation, I’m a writer / director with a few produced credits: a couple of shorts, a couple of short TV docu-dramas and a mini-series that I’m now editing into a much shorter 90 min film (the script was actually designed that way, don’t ask me if the experiment is successful). I was part-time teacher in a very small 2-year film school and my co-teachers all had jobs as well, in their respective vocations, and only taught part time.

The school had courses in film theory and film history but fundamentally it’s a vocational school. Which is what I like about it. And it doesn’t offer specialized training (another thing I like about it); every student was required to learn to use a camera, to light scenes, to learn how to use Avid and Pro Tools, take production courses, etc, etc.

Out of my 10 screenwriting students 4 claimed to be either seriously dyslexic or simply too stupid to string words together to form coherent sentences. So they were excused from actually having to write a screenplay in the course. 6 showed interest and undertook to write a 15 min film.

Out of this came 5 shootable screenplays. 3 were too complex/expensive to make in the alotted time. So the kids made 2 shorts at the end of term (and each and every one got the key-job they wanted).

The scripts turned out much better than I expected (though all were kinda dark). I know for a fact that the kids learned a lot and they learned the most when they were trying to fix their scripts and time was short.

It is a very valuable learning experience, for aspiring screenwriters, to see their scripts turned into films - even if it’s just shorts. I think everyone can agree to that. The idea of teaching a screenwriting course where the end product consists of a stack of scripts is not an appealing one to me.

Hmmmm … trackback didn’t seem to work. Here’s what I posted on Complications Ensue:

Craig Mazin has a gritty post about screenwriting books and the non-screenwriters that write them. I agree with the sentiment. One reason I wrote Crafty Screenwriting was that most screenwriting books seem to have been written in a neverland where the goal is a well-written script. Or something. Having worked for 10 years as a development executive, I noticed they missed important things like the need to have a hook. While anything that gets your juices flowing is worth something, I don’t know why people are reading books by people who’ve never made a living from scripts. I would happily read a book about screenwriting from a producer, another development exec, an agent, an actor or a director, if there were one, before I’d read one by a professional screenwriting teacher. And I’ve heard the same horror stories about certain screenwriting book writers and the scripts they’ve perpetrated.

I also agree with Craig’s sentiment that you should read and write many screenplays, too, rather than just reading many screenwriting books. The only screenwriting book I think I ever got much out of was my own, by the process of writing it, and crystallizing what I thought I knew.

But then, I’d already read a thousand scripts and had spent years trying to set movie projects up, while writing on the side, professionally. When you’re already in the door, it’s hard to remember how difficult it can be to find where the door is.

The right kind of screenwriting books are useful. (Craig wasn’t saying they aren’t, but I feel inclined to assert it, since I’ve perpetrated my own screenwriting book!) People don’t always know where to start. A good screenwriting book can walk people through the process. A good screenwriting book talks about what a good screenplay is, and about writing groups, and where to find scripts to read. In my upcoming book, Crafty TV Writing, I’ll talk about how to watch TV analytically, and how to get feedback on your specs, and what the writer’s room is like, and who do you send your specs to, and how is TV writing different from movie writing. I tried to write Crafty Screenwriting to be the book I wish I’d read when I started writing screenplays lo these many years ago, and ditto Crafty TV Writing.

Anyway, if I didn’t think there was a point to it, why would I have a blog about screenwriting?

For the most part, those who can, do, and those who can teach…

However I would argue that reading screenplays isn’t quite enough. Reading and figuring out what works, what doesn’t work (and why!) are the tools that you need to learn to help your own craft. I’ve learned more about where to fix my own stories by reading for places (contests, schools) that require me to not just check off boxes as to the script (rank 1 - 5 character, plot, etc), but to articulate why the plot is great, but why the characters don’t grab me.

ABC, WB, Fox and CBS all do have writing fellowships for TV writers (ABC in the form of the Disney fellowship). Many of them are also designed to promote diversity in the industry. Paramount also suppored the Chesterfield fellowhship (for features), however that appears to be on hiatus.

A while ago I’ve attended one of those elite writing seminars. We’re talking 300 bucks for a day in some person’s apartment (no AC). After watching the script guru draw complex diagrams on a blackboard for hours, we finally got to watch our master apply the highly classified methods… and witnessed a complete system failure! The script expert started over three times, trying to solve a specific story problem by rummaging through her ‘emotional tool box’, and kept having to clean the blackboard for a new attempt. Success was denied. It was sad. Comical. Expensive.

teachers can be inspirational. i’ve have extremely good luck - my teachers have been masters (yes masters). one was a world class classical musician. two others, martial artists (one american taught by a chinese master, one was a chinese master). now, as a hobby i play ping pong - my teacher is a former chinese national champion.

well, i seek out instruction from the best. have no desire to study with others.

i’m not a classical musician, can’t play ping pong, and will never be a martial artist. but - i had my chance. problem was i either did not have the talent or was not willing to work at it. but, i had my chance - instruction from masters.

not so with screenwriting. not out there. there are thousands of copies of final draft (or other software) sold every year. there are tens of thousands of scripts written every year. it’s not possible that each of these writers learned from a master

Next essay, Craig?: “You’re a working writer. When to hire that really big assistant and what to do with him.”

Wonderful blog and discussion. I think it’s important to make the distinction between those folks in Iowa reading for $5 a page and the legitimate teachers. I teach in the MFA program at UCLA and I can say we do all the things that Craig suggests should be done by teacher/mentors. The program is top rate (our graduates’ success stories are well known). We get the students ready for the business by forcing them to write a script in ten weeks. By running the workshops as if we’re their producer. Pushing. Prodding. But, these are highly motivated people. People who have already made it through a vigorous weeding out process. A lot of writers treat screenwriting like a hobby. That lucky lottery ticket that will come through one day. And, when they hire a guru, they may be looking for a shortcut. There are no shortcuts. The other great thing about UCLA is that every quarter sees a new roster of current writers teaching. David Koepp. Mike Werb. Mike Colleary. Neil Landau. All great folks who are wonderful writers, AND teachers. The reason many pros won’t mentor (besides time constraints) is that the writers who want to be mentored seldom follow through. They get the hard notes, and wilt. I just wanted to make sure folks stay aware of the distinction. Those who do, can also teach. You just need to do your homework and find those folks. They’re out there. Tim Albaugh

I agree. You can’t teach writing. That’s the first thing I tell my students who attend a local university program in screenwriting.

That said, you can share your experience, whatever it is, and hope that it will help.

One statement I totally disagree with is one that says if you haven’t made it as a screenwriting, jf if you don’t know how to write a good screenplay you have no right to teach. There are many, many great coaches who have been nothing but mediocre at sports, if even that, but who nevertheless have an understanding of the game that is far superior to that of the best players. There at least two of the gurus out there that I know of who possess such undertanding.

It is true, that any claim gurus may have that anyone can learn screenwriting is false. But there are books that open a dialogue between the writer and his work, that bring about stimulating questions, and these are books I have no problems recommending.

Still, I tell my students that they’ll learn more about screenwriting reading good scripts than they would from any book or course.

imho,

DL

Craig -

I agree. It’s a cottage industry for people who can’t write. Out of curiosity, my brother and I took a class from Linda Segar. She has a number of books and works as a ‘consultant’. At the break, we asked her for our money back. We said, “nothing you’re talking about has anything to do with screenwriting or even story-telling. It’s academic masturbation.” She was non-plussed. After all, she’s a big screenwriting guru. Watching her justify her curriculum and her expertise was pathetic.

I will likely teach one day, because I enjoy teaching, mentoring really. But my idea would be similar to yours. I’ve also been a fairly successful working writer/producer for over a decade.

Anyone too dyslexic to write should be out of the class or failed.

tim a

agree. vast majority wilt at first adversity. they’re sure they’ve got a great script(s). they refuse criticism and bombard hollywood with their work. this then gives rise to an industry of rip-off teachers willing to take advantage of writers desperate to break in but not willing to do the work needed (and not willing to drop out)

coming up through the ranks, being associated with wannabes - very embarrassing, almost humiliating. they slap together several scripts and hope to win the lotto. embarrassing. pursuing screenwriting is seen as a joke

it’s symbiotic: lazy writers give rise to and support a community of glossy con artists. who is to blame?

J. Turman:

About the dyslexics: I assume you’re referring to my post about the screenwriting course I taught.

EVERY student in the school has to take the screenwriting course. That’s just the kind of school it is.

Even the ones who are dying to become cinematographers, sound designers, whatever, and have absolutely no interest in screenwriting, never have.

They’re still required to attend. And they’re made to learn some very basic stuff, like script formatting, elemental theories about screenplay structure and such.

In real life, photographers, sound-recordists, costume designers, make-up people etc, actually read scripts - study them in fact - before they start working on a film. So it’s not a bad idea that aspiring cameramen, editors etc, actually take a screenwriting course in film school and learn to read scripts.

The non-writers did a very good job participating in class. They rooted for their favourite scripts and when time came to actually make the films they were well prepared.

Out of the ten students two are definitely writer material. I don’t think it hurt them any to have the non-writers in class.

I’d like to add that I’ve been taught by some of the top screenwriters in the game, but by far I learned the most from a man who doesn’t write them for a living. He reads them… a lot of them. So, go figure…

Anna -

Thanks for the clarification. I thought it was for aspiring writers. My comment is invalid.

I’m not aware of any kind of fellowship at FOX or CBS????? I know of the Warner Brothers Workshop and the Disney/ABC Fellowship.

CBS Diversity (http://www.cbsdiversity.com/) and Fox Diversity (http://www.fox.com/diversity/programs.htm) are available for qualified writers. Their strengths are through their mentoring and CBS is focused on teaching you how to network and navigate through some of the non-writing aspects of the writing career Craig mentions. Some CBS fellows received staff jobs this year, from what I’ve heard.

I agree 100% with what Craig says about folks with no screenwriting experience. It is a different story�it has been for me, at least�with regard to folks who do have experience. I read most of the books, but the most helpful has been the scripts. (I miss Scenario magazine.) At this point the only book on writing I’d recommend to anyone starting out is Sheila Gallien’s, who worked side-by-side with Bill Broyle’s for seven years. Everything that needs to be said about it, as I understand it now, she says as well as it could be, and humbly. The screenwriting class I took years ago I took because it was taught by an ex-L.A. Law scribe. He didn’t teach me much of anything I hadn’t already figured out for myself or read in Syd Field, but that’s not why I took it. I took it because of the “ex-L.A. Law” part. I wanted validation. I got it. He liked my stuff. Used it in class as an example. Said to keep working on it. That’s what new writers need, and it flows into Craig’s point: Someone in the industry to tell them they’re on the right track or not. In the end it’s all about putting words on paper and putting those words in front of people, but along the way, a little professional encouragement and advice can go a long way.

I’m glad a few qualified teachers chimed in. It’s easy to say, “writing cannot be taught,” but real writing programs do turn out good writers. The mere fact of being exposed to different well-thought out ideas about writing is, in and of itself, valuable. A talented writer may discover a completely new way to think about his or her role as a writer. No one is suggesting that you can become a writer by osmosis (except possibly a few hucksters selling how-to courses), but writing is not simply a craft. It is also an art and art at a high level often demands a high level of education. Raw talent is important, but is also subject to abuse, especially in Hollywood, and becoming grounded both theoretically and practically before being sucked into the machine might be a good thing for some writers.

I think the two biggest charlatans out there are Skip Press, who tries to pass himself off as “Hollywood’s top screenwriter” even though he’s never sold a screenplay and no movie bears his name, and David Trottier, another clown who’s never sold a screenplay or been hired to write one but has the chutzpah to peddle a book called “The Screenwriter’s Bible”.

Al:

I just checked out their website.

Jeez. I mean…

Jeez.

wow, I thought Trottier was the new Syd… everywhere I turn his tome is pushed at me, it always appearing on the ‘must have’ lists etc

Craig,

What are your thoughts about those that sell “reader notes” - you know, you give them your script and for a couple hundred dollars they’ll give it a breakdown like a studio reader - do you think something like this is helpful for a good writer on the outside looking in?

ab/craig

dt’s book(s) seem fine. i don’t have a problem with that type book - basic guide to format… agree about sp, though. if you think sp’s site is bad, you should deal with him personally - it’s unreal…un-freaking-real

Next essay, Craig?: “You’re a working writer. When to hire that really big assistant and what to do with him.”

Posted by: Miles Stone at June 30, 2005 10:20 AM

I second that suggestion.

Josh:

Personally, I wouldn’t pay someone for notes. Instead, I’d be working in L.A. in someone’s mailroom, in which instance I’d be finding folks to read my script for free.

I suppose if you’re just dipping your toe in the pond, it might make sense, but then you must make sure that the person you’re paying for notes also does coverage from studios and agencies. If they don’t, then the notes aren’t informed by experience.

Thanks for the advice Craig - good stuff as always, I’m really glad for your site - I’m in NYC right now but I’m looking for a way out to LA (spent a couple months there earlier this year) to stay. If your big assistant gets struck by alien lightning and you need a new one, please keep me in mind (I’m about six foot tall, 195 lbs, extensive experience as a bouncer in Iowa, Capricorn and I love animals of all kinds except pet spiders).

I second that emotion. Years ago, when I was green and desperate for validation, one of those “top” screenwriting gurus offered to help me out…for $5000. I can only wonder what he’s charging now.

What a screenwriter does, essentially, is tell a story. So what an aspiring screenwriter must do, then, is:

1) Learn to tell stories. Assignments include a wide range of reading and learning various storytelling techniques. Heck, even learning to produce successful campfire skits would be helpful.

2) Learn to tell those stories through the medium of film. As noted above, this means watching movies. Lots of them.

If you don’t do those things, your scripts will almost certainly be crap, because you’re trying to forge a path in unfamiliar territory, ignoring the paved path that goes to all of the nice views.

pj

are you serious? $5k? did the guy have credentials? did you pay? what did you get?

Bravo! Somebody had to say it. I think why it’s so confusing for everyone who is trying to get a grip on what makes a solid screenplay is the fact that they keep making films from the bad ones. I by no means consider myself an authority on this but bad screenplays get validated all the time. They get made!

So someone who wrote 3 mediocre screenplays 30 years ago is now also getting validated by making a living teaching how to write mediocre screenplays. He/she in turn is teaching a whole new generation how to write bad screenplays.

A mentor is a different thing and I believe that is what Craig is getting at here. The full experience of what it means to do this for a living.

In the end, I think you can teach the mechanics of screenplay writing. It’s all out there in classes, books, films and in written screenplays. The thing you can’t teach someone to do is write a great story. That comes from within. That’s in the genetic code.

Billy Wilder never heard of Robert McKee…

Over at Wordplayer.com, in his column “23 Steps To A Feature Film Sale”, Terry Rosio says:

4. Learn the basics. There’s some stuff that, walking into any story meeting in town it’s assumed that you’ve read, so you’d better make sure you’ve read them. “Adventures in the Screen Trade” by William Goldman. “Hero with a Thousand Faces” by Joseph Campbell. Syd Field’s book “Screenplay”. “The Art of Dramatic Writing” by Lajos Egri. “Making a Good Script Great” by Linda Seeger. In addition, there’s other material I highly recommend: the videotape series “Word into Image.” The “Comics Journal” Alan Moore interview. All of my oh so very important notes on writing screenplays (these must be memorized). Truby’s story structure course, which I have on audio cassette. There’re so many more I’ll have to make a separate list. Anyway — get this stuff, read it, know it.

If some of this stuff is good enough for Terry, why isn’t it good enough for Joe Blow who really, really wants to write? Why is it an either/or choice? Can’t beginners do everything Craig suggests and still buy Truby’s “Blockbuster” tape series and McKee’s jackass book and everything else under the sun? I mean, hell, screenwriting’s hard.

Hmm. I sold a script without reading any of those books.

Not that they’re not good books. I mean, I was stupid to have not read Campbell before tackling a screenplay.

So I guess I’d qualify Terry’s 23 Steps by saying not every step is necessary, as I’ve empirically proven.

Look, you can buy this stuff, but I think I’d be able to have a good debate with Terry about whether or not reading those books were fundamental to or superficial to the inevitability of his success.

For what it’s worth, of the books listed above, I’ve STILL never read “Screenplay” or “The Art Of Dramatic Writing” or “Making A Good Script Great” or seen “Word Into Image” or the “Comics Journal” or listened to Truby.

It is possible, I suppose, that after absorbing the above material, I will become a better screenwriter. I’m suspicious of some of those titles, but others intrigue me.

Paying an experienced reader to cover your script is fine, but don’t pay anyone to do notes.

It’s not like taking your car to a mechanic. Pay for 10 sets of notes from 10 different readers and you’re likely to get 10 different ways to fix/develop your script.

The only people you should take notes from are those who love your script, and who share your vision for it.

Which is hard because writers like to show their stuff to friends and get feedback. This can be treacherous territory because your friends may resist giving you the straight dope if they hate your script. You have to remind your friends to be honest, and if they hate your material, don’t hold it against them.

Campbell is that important? I’ve read him ages ago (before I was a writer) so I imagine I should probably pick it up again, right?

Further to Craig’s post above mine, I think screenwriting can be learned, but I don’t think it can be taught. If that makes any sense.

I have to agree with Craig that there’s very little, academically, that you can do if you want to write for the screen. There’s a lot to learn, and people get results out of going to UCLA or AFI—indeed, I discovered one of the hottest horror writers in town right now out of UCLA—but I don’t think the benefits come from the academic rigors. I think the benefits come from the program’s reputation, which gets students’ stuff read by people in the biz, and the alumni relationships.

And I think people who aren’t disciplined enough on their own can use the expense and the deadlines to force themselves to do the work.

But on balance, I don’t think the tuition cost is justified when you can get the same or better experience and knowledge working a job where you have access to material, and you’re thinking critically about what you’re reading, and you’re dealing with other people in your same position, who are trying to learn the same things you are.

And you’re writing on your own. One after the other.

I’ll tell you a seminal moment for me, that really opened me up to understanding screenplays and their (potential) power. And keep in mind that I’m not a writer; I’m a reader and a producer. But I think this is germane to the discussion.

About nine years ago, I was on a plane reading the first draft of THE TRUMAN SHOW. It was a shitty plane ride, really uncomfortable, people sneezing, babies crying, but I was totally unaware of how miserable I was.

I was utterly riveted. I couldn’t turn the pages fast enough. In the script (not the movie) Truman suspects there’s something weird going on but he can’t put his finger on it. He’s in a fight with his wife and he grabs her, violently. She shouts, “Do something!”, but there’s no one else in the room. Truman loses it. He slashes open their water bed, shoves his wife’s head in and holds it there, fighting against her. He pulls her head out and screams, “Who are you talking to!”

I mean, my eyeballs were bugging out—f’ing astounding script if you haven’t read it. Lot of people in the biz rank it among the best specs ever written. Be sure to read the first draft, with the Pleshette Green and Sanders logo on the title page, dated 1994.

But I digress.

I think until that point, I’d never been so deeply affected by a script. But after reading it, I knew what it felt like to be blown away by a script.

I’d been blown away by movies and a few books, but never a script. Not to that extent.

So I think screenwriting is, at least in part, about finding an emotional gold standard. Once you have that, and you know what it feels like to be blown away, or just really moved, then you know what it’s like to read a script and ‘love’ it, and ‘want’ it to go a certain direction.

So for re-writing on assignment, knowing what that drive feels like lets you take material apart and figure out how you can adjust it to bring it up to your emotional gold standard.

Or if you’re writing som’m original, you’re looking for and developing ideas with the same thing in mind.

I don’t think an academic setting is really gonna help you find your emotional gold standard. And I don’t think it comes from seeing a ton of movies either—you really need to have a transcendant experience READING A SCRIPT, imo.

Joshua,

Yeah, Joseph Campbell, Hero With a Thousand Faces is a great tool. Not a rule, but a great tool.

But the book is really dense and quite difficult, so if you don’t want to read it again, read Chris Vogler’s book, ‘The Writer’s Journey’. It distills Hero with a Thousand Faces down to its essential precepts and demonstrates them in movie terms.

If you want to go further, you can do Stuart Voytilla’s book, Myth and the Movies. It takes everything Campbell and Vogler write about—mythic structure—and guides you through the different story stages and archetypes as they apply to actual movies. He does Treasure of the Sierra Madre, Star Wars episodes 4, 5, 6, and a ton of others.

The supposed holy trinity of writing books, as mentioned above, are Hero with a Thousand Faces by Joseph Campbell, The Art of Dramatic Writing by Lajos Egri, and Poetics by Aristotle.

To that list I would add Vogler’s book, plus How Not to Write a Screenplay: 101 Mistakes Screenwriters Make by Denny Martin Flynn.

The other stuff Terrio Rossio recommends is good, too—everyone reads Syd Field, so might as well.

But reading a few books is about all the academics you need. Beyond that, it’s more about just writing, one after the other. And you have to have raw talent, too, but you won’t know if you have it or not without writing a few scripts. Possibly a lot of scripts.

Eric Roth (Forrest Gump, The Insider, tons of other credits) claims to have written thirty scripts before anything happened for him. Ron Bass says it took him seventeen years, I think.

Joshua,

Or, as in Craig’s case, you don’t have to read any of these books. But he doesn’t really represent the vast majority of WGA writers out there who only work once or twice a year. Craig is a top top guy, he’s RICH, and he already has a slew of credits. And he’s only 34. He’d be where he is now regardless of whether he read those books or not.

Most writers have to scratch and claw and fight just to make a living, and need all the help they can get. Reading those books will definitely help you out and improve your writing, and you won’t feel cheated afterwards.

But don’t go to screenwriting grad school, and stay away from story notes services. Again, coverage is fine, but not notes.

The main value in the various screenwriting manuals is in showing how and why a particular film and its script work the way that they do. If you do use the manuals, McKee, Seger, Epstein, whoever, you should reach a point where you can refute every one of their assertions with specific exceptions to their general rules. You need to know films and their screenplays on such a deep and wide basis that you can see how the given rule was derived, and also see the numerous exceptions to the rule.

Trottier is recommended for format only. His book is the number one format guide. Nobody I know sees his screenwriting advice as anything but pedestrian and generic.

Skip Press seems to inspire a lot of hostility. Maybe for his Repub politics as much as his screenwriting advice. I don’t think he’s evil, just an aging hack who’s trying to make a living, working his hustle, the same way everybody does if they overstay their welcome in the film biz. If you take Skip’s advice as earthshaking wisdom, without checking out who he is and the work he’s done, shame on you.

All that said, my favorite screenwriting manuals aren’t screenwriting manuals. My favorites are John Gardner’s instruction on writing literary fiction, On Becoming a Novelist, and The Art of Fiction. Again, you need to be knowledgeable enough about film and screenplays and storytelling in general to translate Gardner’s advice to screenwriting.

I’ve got a graduate degree in screenwriting, and I can honestly say that I was a better writer upon completing USC’s MFA program than I was when I went in. And I don’t think one necessarily has to be a great screenwriter in order to be a great screenwriting teacher. My undergrad degree is in music, and back in college I got to attend clinics conducted by many legendary musicians. Unfortunately, many of them could offer little helpful advice beyond: “You gotta play from your soul.” That didn’t help me at all. I got a lot more help from the teaching faculty who could clearly articulate the steps that would help me improve my technique to the point where I could express my “soul”. Just telling aspiring screenwriters to “figure it out” is like teaching a driver’s ed class by handing out car keys on the first day and telling students to figure out how an automobile operates. Hey, nothing gets me more angry than some of the snake oil salesmen already mentioned who take advantage of aspiring writers’ desperation. But I think that someone who understands the craft, and can articulate some of the lessons they’ve already learned, can help a fledgling writer make the transition into a professional one.

Thanks Ben - I’m very familiar with Poetics (theatre dramaturgy in grad school) but the Campbell references were good - and especially thank you for the Truman story -

I get that way with books as well, but not so often with screenplays or plays, even good ones I’ve read that are published- they’re not written to be read, I think, and so the format always seem to draw me out of it.

Thanks again for the advice -

Trottier’s SCREENWRITER’S BIBLE was the only screenwriting book I found even remotely useful when I was trying to write my first script. All I wanted help with was formatting stuff (I’d never even seen a real script, never mind read one, and in fact the first script I ever saw was the first one I wrote). I don’t know Trottier from Adam, but that book of his gave me the info I needed, so I’d still recommend it, though resources being what they are now, especially online, it’s probably redundant.

“You can’t teach people how to write”

I agree and I disagree.

You can’t teach people what makes for a “good” story, BUT, you can each them what does and doesn’t work in terms of communicating it.

Drama is a very constructionist medium. There is much about it that can be “intuited”, which is just another way of saying “learned” (which implies being “taught”) by studying drama (reading scripts and watching movies, etc).

There is also much about the craft of writing that can be quantified and directly taught. And for most people, this method of learning is very beneficial. Even Mozart studied music theory and had to be taught to play, Di Vinci studied art and had to be taught various techniques for sculpting and painting.

Solid understanding of craft won’t create talent, but it does allow you to maximize what talent you have.

Consider a high school play of Romeo and Juliet. The performance may be terrible which will have a negative impact on the audience and make them think the play was terrible. But if the performance is good, the audience will think the play was good. The genius of the play remains constant, all that changes is how it is communicated to the audience. That’s craft. Craft allows you to effectively communicate your story so the genius (or whatever creativity may be there) is clearly and fully expressed.

As far as credentials for teachers are concerned, I think it’s far more important that what they offer their students be correct.

Aristotle never wrote a play or won a competition for play writing. Does that mean we should ignore Poetics or that if we read it, we will be hindered by this inexperienced drama-hack’s crack-pot theories?

William T. Price was a farmer and Lawyer who wrote reviews of plays for a small town paper. He went on to found America’s first school of play writing and his students were some of the most influential playwrights of his, or any, generation. Should we ignore his landmark work for fear that if we read it we will be tainted by his theories and analysis because he himself is not a playwright?

One final analogy.

You may be a gifted surgeon, born with steady hands, steely nerves and keen eyes, but unless you have studied anatomy from non-surgeons you will not likely have the necessary understanding of anatomy you need to be the gifted surgeon you were born to be.

My 2 cents.

:)

I didn’t pay the guru one single dime. But he did say that if $5000 was too steep, he could “introduce” me to a second tier guru…for about $2-3000.

Needless to say, I passed.

And don’t get me started on Skip.

I agree with those who say “don’t pay for notes.”

When you’re coming up as a writer, one of the best things I think you can do is build a support network of peers — network with sharp “up and coming” writers.

I think a good writer’s group is far better than pay-to-go notes. I know a lot of successful, working screenwriters who started out with a good writing group. That sharpened their skills far better than classes or books or whatever.

Before I became a working screenwriter, I was in a really excellent writing group. We were all at the same level — working hard, trying to break in. We read and critiqued each other’s scripts.

(And if you form a group, make sure you have excellent people. We didn’t just let any bozo into the group.)

We must’ve had a good group. All but one group member went on to become a working screenwriter or working TV writer. I think that group really helped. And it never cost a cent.

Ben: You talking about Scott Kosar? He wrote THE MACHINIST in a class I taught at UCLA. Great writer. Great script.

Okay, it’s about time that I finally chime in here. I feel I need to say some things because I make my living as a professional reader, but also do coverage and/or notes for developing writers, and also am beginning to do some teaching as well. I also hope to write a screenwriting book in the future.

I’ve read through the bulk of the comments on this post (just skimmed a few), and some of what I have to say echoes previous comments, but a few things I think are new points.

We’ve all heard the phrase (and it was written above), “Those who can do, those who can’t teach.” There is some truth to this, but at the same time, I think the weak spot in this line is that it makes that sound like a bad thing. Teaching anything is a specific skill, and it is a different skill from doing. Any great musician originally learned from someone else, and the probability was that that person was not a great musician in their own right. As with the screenwriter example, if the person could have been playing music and making tons of cash, why would they waste their time teaching a novice?

I’ve taught in other fields previously, and I know that there are plenty of people who might have known the material I taught better than I did, but they might not have been as good at teaching it. The same is true, in my opinion, for screenwriting. It is true that most of the best screenwriting teachers, and most of those who write the books, are not the top screenwriters out there. But teaching or examining the things that make good screenplays and how to write them is a different skill than writing them.

Certainly there are many of terrible screenwriting books, teachers, gurus, consultant, etc out there. And that’s why novice writers need to check out these people seriously before shelling out funds. Similarly, all writers should do all the things recommended above, including reading any script they can get their hands on, observing the world around them, getting feedback from peers, etc. But that doesn’t mean that these other things are automatically wastes of time or money.

I generally continue to read screenwriting books (though I take them out fo the library usually, so they don’t cost me anything if they suck, as many do). I think the key is to view everything you read with a critical eye. Take what is useful for you and leave the rest. Try things and see what works. And of course, don’t just make cookie cutter scripts. Certainly they’re not formulas. But a writer with some skills, but who is still developing, might find how to use the skills you learn while still writing your original script.

I hope this was coherent, and not too long. Lastly, Craig, I need to thank you for the blogroll — you’re my top referrer these days! And also, after checking out your bio I realize I have some catching up to do — I’m just about 2 weeks older than you and another NY transplant. ;-)

David,

I’d love to join a screenwriting group like that - I was in a playwrighting group back when I was starting out in theatre - but I haven’t really met any other screenwriters here in nyc that I would consider excellent -

Damn. All signs point west, haul ass to LA eventually.

I loved my classes at UCLA and still take the Extension classes — but I’m very careful about who I take classes from. Fortunately, UCLA has emphasized using working writers to teach workshops and extension classes. So far each teacher I’ve had has been able to not only help me improve my writing with notes and feedback, but also give you a sense of the business itself. I’ve learned what it’s like in a writing room on a TV show, how to set a writing schedule, what to expect from agents…this is the type of info you can’t get from a screenwriting teacher who has never sold a script or worked on staff for a TV show.

So I agree with most of this discussion — buyer beware, but the best teachers are those who have had to earn their keep by writing moreso than by teaching.

(And thanks Tim Albaugh!! I still consider your class to be the best I’ve been in)

Not sure what happened, but after I tried to add a longish comment here last night, finally weighing in on this topic that is near and dear to me, I got some kind of error and it didn’t post. So now I’ve posted my response over at my blog, if any of y’all are interested.

Also, Craig, I just wanted to thank you for adding me to your blogroll — you’ve quickly become my number 1 referrer! And after I’ve read your bio, I realize I have some catching up to do. I’m about 2 weeks older than you, and another transplanted NYer. ;-)

D’oh! Now I see it showed up. So sorry!

It is true that most of the best screenwriting teachers, and most of those who write the books, are not the top screenwriters out there. But teaching or examining the things that make good screenplays and how to write them is a different skill than writing them.

That’s an excellent point, Joel. I have never taken or taught a screenwriting course so don’t have any specific experience in this particular arena either way, but I spent 13 years in academia and know as well as anyone that practicing in a field and teaching it are indeed completely different skill sets. In my experience it’s pretty rare for someone to be exceptional at both.

Craft can be taught, but talent can really only be nurtured. So while I do think the screenwriting-guru field is glutted with jerks who really don’t have anything to offer and are simply taking advantage of people, there is absolutely no reason to assume that someone who hasn’t succeeded as a writer himself can’t teach others the basic elements of the craft or recognize and encourage talent in his students.

That said, Craig’s warning of caveat scriptor is certainly valid. There are doubtless excellent teachers out there, but the trick is to find the gems in the shitpile. :-)

I am finding that one of the best ways to improve your screenwriting is to interact with working writers. And, courtesy of the internet, that is now possible. Thanks to blogging. Much more educational than a book or class has ever been. I think it’s the mindset you start to develop when you get into the groove with other writers. If I was teaching, I’d point all my students to a selection of blogs and say see you later.

I’ve taken a couple of UCLA Extension classes and have to agree that it really depends on the teacher and the other students in class. I’ve only heard great things about Tim Albaugh from several people I know…though I’m not sure if he teaches Extension classes or stricly UCLA classes. Steve Duncan is a good teacher…plus he’s funny.

Also, Craig, I just wanted to thank you for adding me to your blogroll — you’ve quickly become my number 1 referrer! And after I’ve read your bio, I realize I have some catching up to do. I’m about 2 weeks older than you, and another transplanted NYer. ;-)

Well, if it makes you feel any better, John August is my number one referrer, and he was also born in 1971…so we all have our lead dogs to chase, don’t we? :)

Well, if it makes you feel any better, John August is my number one referrer, and he was also born in 1971…so we all have our lead dogs to chase, don’t we? :)

God, all three of you young’uns are making me sick to my stomach. ;-)

Heh heh. Definitely worth having someone to “chase” as you put it. I’ll do my best to chase BOTH of you! ;-)

I taught a semester of undergraduate screenwriting (this was after I had been a working TV writer, but shortly before my first screenplay sale), and obviously I wouldn’t have done it if I didn’t think I was giving some benefit to my students. My own opinion is that, like any other art, screenwriting is 90% craft, and craft can be taught. Unfortunately, that remaining 10%—whatever it is—can’t be.

That said, I spent 2 years getting an MFA in writing from USC, and if I had it all to do over again, I wouldn’t bother. Instead, I’d take the money that I (and my parents) spent on grad school, and just use it to make a ton of short films the first year, and a low-budget DV feature the second. I would have learned more, and had more to show for it at the end.

Amen.

As a working screenwriter who may someday decide to teach, I’ll weigh in here too. Craig is dead on right. Beware the bullshit, there’s a lot out there. That being said, the answers are out there too. When I came to town, a few self help books were all that existed and you had to sit on your ass and pound the keyboard to get anywhere. In the end, that’s all that matters. Hard, hard work. Returning again and again to your work. If you’re not up to that, it doesn’t matter whether you find a teacher or not. For a seed to grow, it must do the impossible task of pushing up through the dark, transforming itself, and breaking into the light (so poetic!), but that’s what a writer has to do, not only with each project, but literally with him/herself, transform themselves from a person who imagines themselves a writer, into a person who literally WRITES every day. If I had such an extensive research tool as the internet when I arrived in town, I might have gotten ahead faster, but only in the sense of learning format, structure, meeting like minded people who share stories (very valuable so you don’t feel all alone and feel a failure, filled with doubt.) In the end the teacher means nothing without the will to push yourself hard. And pushing yourself hard may pay off a little faster if you take the time to see what’s out there and selectively pick the few things that speak to you. In the end, it’s you and the work, and it’s up to you to fashion something that feels alive. I’m linked at screenwriterbones.com - thanks Craig!

craig - this has become my first stop on the net. congrats on a great blog.

pj - you too with skip? what’s with this guy

must say, i’ve never taken a writing class. never had a mentor. really, i learned what i know about story from watching movies. so, what does this mean? if i say i’m a really good writer, you’d be like ‘right pal’. and i wouldn’t blame you. how do you know? so, i’ll just say this - i’ve learned nothing from books (except basic format stuff).

when i first read what a 1st act turning point was, i already knew that. just didn’t know what it was called. when i read what subtext was, i already knew that. same for all character building theory, arc, you name it. already knew it - all of it (just not the names). i was like ‘oh, that’s what you call that?’ but, being able to execute it - that’s another story. (yes, i can, but how do you know?)

you can’t teach the ability to tell (or execute) story - that you’re born with. you can only teach/show how it’s done. so, writing can (and cannot) be taught

you’re born with it or you are not. if you have it, that doesn’t mean you can execute story. the guy who was born a story teller who teaches himself how to execute - that guy could write screenplays

I’ve found that the most useful books to reference for writing a screenplay are general dramatic/playwriting books and books or articles on fiction writing by successful writers. And of course, watching movies multiple times and taking notes during playback. Some of the best: Playwriting by Bernard Grebanier; Telling Lies for Fun and Profit by Lawrence Block; How to Write Best-Selling Fiction by Dean Koontz. Also, articles in Writer’s Digest from John Grisham, Tom Clancy and Elmore Leonard.

Screenwriting is both a craft and an art. I would caution anyone to beware of those who may be able to teach the craft but promise to teach the art.

Being a stay-at-home mom with a hard working husband I can afford to take all of these classes, and I have. I’ve been everywhere from McKee to UCLA. I would say the best screenwriting teacher I’ve ever worked with isn’t a screenwriter but an executive who works in the business. His name is Chris Lockhart and he works with story and scripts at ICM, with some of the biggest stars in the world. He teaches a class at L.A. Valley College and takes a very realistic and practical approach to writing and the business. He says he can’t teach screenwriting. “It’s a learned process.” He has so much energy and passion, it is infectious and motivating. His class is something that must be experienced to be appreciated and those of you who’ve seen him speak know it’s true. Aside from discussing the basics, the class is about pracitical application. He even passes out recently sold specs scripts (we read four) for discussion. He also brings in big agents and executives to discuss the business. He’s even arranged representation for past students. It’s the best class I’ve ever taken (even better than my UCLA Extension courses) and it’s less than a hundred bucks! What’s amazing about this man is that he clearly has a passion for story and writers and does much of his work for love and not money. He has devoted much of his free time to meeting with writers and created a website where he provides all sorts of feedback to aspiring writers with nothing in return. Unlike many others, he doesn’t have a book to sell and he doesn’t offer his reading services for a fee, something of which he could probably make a fortune from considering his connections. I felt obligated to post this here. This is an excellent and very affordable alternative to the stuffy, pedantic, out-of-touch blowhards we complain about here. Chris Lockhart’s class at the college is very popular and closes up in minutes but he’ll always be in a class by himself.

I understand most comments but I have had the chance to live a different experience. I have been taught by what many call a screenwriting guru: Yves Lavandier. I learned a lot. Contrary to most gurus, Lavandier is a scriptwriter himself. And a director too. He knows the trade from inside. Believe me, you can feel it when he teaches. Unfortunately I think he has stopped teaching screenwriting seminars. I’m left with his book. But what’s fascinating is that I still discover today the deeper meaning of things he taught us years ago. It takes years to be a screenwriter.

It does take years, but a lot of that is to do with the lack of decent instruction out there, and the surprisingly large number of people inside the industry who have little idea of how to take a script apart, clean it and put it back together so it sings.

I’ve been a writer/editor for over a decade now, and I’ve just released my own book on screenwriting. Whoever said aboved that this is not a money move - well, they’re right. It’s absolutely not. You do make far more writing, and actually I have - but there’s only so much bad advice you can see being given. I wanted to get the techniques I have learned through many years of battle out there to help.

Basically I seriously believe a vast amount of writing technique can be taught, to a point where individual flair, or lack of, can come through much much quicker for each new student.