Passing On The Diversity Pass

Craig,

It comes as quite a shock to find myself agreeing with you. But you’re right on this. John Updike, no mean scribbler, makes the same point:

“… the function of fiction is not to render verdicts or effect social justice but to give evidence, and the truthful impressions of a male chauvinist better serve both noble ends than a squirmy political correctness.”

I’ll note in passing that squirmy political correctness can take many forms and the right is as guilty, if not guiltier, than the left in many ways.

Oh, and you’re copyright and separation of rights articles are extremely well done and useful.

Thanks, Mr. Insufferable

Possibly what Mr. Epstein meant is that unless it is critical to the story, characters should not have a specific ethnicity, meaning not that they are white but that they are open. If I don’t write a character Black, Indian, Polynesian or Jewish, it doesn’t mean I’m writing him white. I’m leaving it to the casting director, who can feel free to cast the person she feels best fits the role.

Hmmmm…

I’m not sure how to formulate this post. At first I was sort of agreeing with you but then…

…not so much.

Guess what? I’m black. A negro. Colored.

I’m a Screenwriter, a Director, and a Producer. And my being black has absolutely NOTHING to do with who I am.

Hmmm…

That’s a lie. But I wish it was the truth. Because when I walk into a room, I’m no longer a Screenwriter, a Director, or a Producer.

I’m a BLACK screenwriter.

I’m a BLACK director.

I’m a BLACK producer.

Because of my race I will always have a little qualifier before my job title. And I think it sucks. No, I know it sucks.

You know what I do when I get a script? I automatically think if I can make one of the main characters another race than white.

Does that make me a racist?

Absolutely not.

So why else would I do that? Why would anyone want to give a Diversity Pass?

Because there’s a ridiculous lack of ethnic characters in film and television. But it makes me think of what you said…“Every character must have a race and ethnicity, just as they must have a gender, height, weight, marital status, sexual orientation and state of physical attractiveness. Their race and ethnicity will inform them, to varying extents, just as their gender, height, weight, marital status, sexual orientation and state of physical attractiveness does.”

Why is that? I think there are a very few characters in film that would have suffered if their gender or race was switched. We did it with Monster’s Ball and you know what? The main character being switched from white to black made the film better.

Now I’m the most Politically Incorrect guy on the planet so when I see a movie and the scary street gangs all look like The Jets from West Side Story…yeah, that’s pretty fucking stupid. But you have to admit, there’s no reason for a film to have such an unnatural lack of ethnic characters. I’m not citing Woody Allen, mind you. Woody Allen writes about his personal life and in his personal life THERE ARE NO BLACK PEOPLE.

You can even switch it around. Take Enemy of the State with Will Smith. Are you telling me that his character being Black had anything to do with the story? Are you telling me that the film couldn’t have been recast with John Cusack? Of course it could. And you could recast Regina King with Amber Valleta. Or you could just keep Regina King. Wouldn’t have changed a thing.

So unless you’re telling a story that revolves around race, you can change a character’s race anytime you’d like. Wouldn’t change a thing.

Admit it, some of you guys in this blog thought I was white. But now you all know that I’m black. Did anything change? Did my posts change in tone or theme?

Nope.

I just happen to be Black.

Craig:

A great post. I agree entirely.

Kevin:

I already knew you were black; your picture on IMDb gave you away. ;)

With regard to your Diversity Pass, that doesn’t make you racist, but it does mean that you are using the film to achieve goals unrelated the telling the story.

I’m Australian, so if I looked for where I could cast an Aussie over an American, I’m making a change that might be for the better, but it isn’t motivated by making the story better.

I think Craig’s point was that changing something like a character’s race for a reason other than to improve the story isn’t a good idea, which I agree with entirely.

I completely agree with you Craig.

Interesting that those in favor of NOT doing a diversity pass are white guys.

I’m not in favor of turning your characters every color of the rainbow JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN. It’s ridiculous to consider plugging in a token character of any minority just because you think the casting director might not consider actors of all races. Nobody likes being the token anything.

I am however, in favor of “playing” with race and how that informs your character. For instance, a half Asian lesbian (which is what I am) is going to look at things differently than a white Valley Girl. So, my reaction to something is definitely going to be different than “hers”. There’s no saying that a character who’s black is going to make it a “better” story but then again, there’s no saying it won’t. I don’t see any harm in doing a diversity pass.

Kevin:

In part, you’re talking about casting. That’s different than writing. For instance, the writer of Monster’s Ball didn’t kneejerk his way into writing the female lead as black out of some deference to racial balance in writing.

Casting is a whole ‘nother ball of wax.

Since Monster’s Ball clearly dealt with the race of the characters head-on, that film would obviously fall under my “movies that are, in part, about race” theory.

Will Smith is an leading male actor who, like you, “happens to be black.” As such, he can play in movies that have race as a central issue (like, say, Ali) as well as movies that don’t (like, say, Hitch).

In fact, all black actors have this ability (although some are better than others).

So do all white actors.

I don’t practice affirmative action with characters, as you do, because from a writing point of view, all of my characters’ racial and ethnic profiles are intentional.

From a casting and producing point of view, you may see things differently. Frankly, it makes good sense to practice affirmative action as a producer, because black audiences (God spare me the hideous euphemism “urban”…is there a more loathsome term?) tend to gravitate towards films they might otherwise ignore if they feature black actors.

I’ll grant you that in Hollywood, you’re a black writer/producer/director. No way around that. The majority mind works by presuming norms and remarking upon statistical anomalies. On the other hand, for what it’s worth, everyone’s getting reduced, categorized and treated callously by the Machine that is a bottom-line oriented capitalistic industry.

Funny…I had this very same discussion with Charles Stone a year or so ago (with him taking your side). In the end, my argument is that the strongest position for a black director to take is that they make movies of the kind they love with the best available actors…and thus break the cycle of being identified with race.

Opting to push race only serves to reinforce the view of an individual as some kind of pseudopod growth emerging from a larger social entity.

Allow me to use John August as an example. John is gay, but he most typically writes movies that don’t include gay themes or gay actors.

Has he turned his back on gay America? Did he have a duty to them in the first place? All good questions, but I’d say that all John does is the hardest thing in the world…the best job he can, all extraneous concerns (like sexuality) aside.

Shonda Rhimes runs Grey’s Anatomy, which is (finally!) a show run by a black writer that isn’t a so-called “black show”. My friend and fellow Board member Larry Wilmore has often stated that the best measure of black writers’ success and failure in gaining ground in television is how many black writers are hired on non-black shows. Like he says, it’s great that The Steve Harvey Show hired a ton of black writers, but how many black writers get hired on Friends? Or Frasier?

In short, I believe in decoupling the race of the writer from the racial aspects of the material…unless that writer just feels like dedicating his energy to stories about race, the way that Spike Lee does.

Writergurl:

How do you know we’re all white guys?

We are, but whatever. :)

I’m entirely in favor of what you’re entirely in favor of! Playing with race intentionally in order to create an interesting character is called writing.

Writing a character and then changing her to a, say, half-Asian lesbian (lesbiasian?) after the fact because you want to appear sensitive and engaged and with it is, well, like you said…ridiculous.

It’s the “pass” part that makes me nuts. Making it post facto is an admission of cynical manipulation.

Hey Craig, interesting post. I do the internationl pass as I write - specifically when I’m in a scene, and I need a doctor for example who will have five lines - I try to drop my “first mind” thought (read: easy unconcious obvious choice) of a white guy (as that happens to be my knee-jerk pop up image in that profession) and blink it to something else I would expect less because it inevitably makes for more interesting chemistry/dynamic/dialoge. Ironically it probably helps break down racial prejudice as well if you expand your thinking out that far. I think that’s what Alex is doing. He finishes a story, and then goes back through it again to flag his “first mind” choices and improve them. Does he tweak the dialogue after making the choice? Probably. Is it still writing? Of course it is. You are revealing an interesting bias you have about process, and objecting to someone else’s process being different than your own. You are assuming the purity of his writing is being fouled by a mindful attack on what should be an inspired and deeply selfless art. But that is your gift to create that way. His is different. It doesn’t make his writing incorrect. His path is just different. Do you object to the way he lays out his idea as something others should do? Perhaps that’s it. We all get to ‘the end’ the best way we can, and if you have ten writers in a room, guaranteed it’s ten different ways. I think we serve each other better by sharing it all and letting inspiration fall where it may. Best, Phil.

CRAIG:

I guess I do see your point. It’s very hard for me to separate the writer from the producer. So yes, I guess my argument does kind of fall into casting.

It’s funny that you use Charles Stone in your post. I guess he may fall onto “my side” not only because he’s black but also because he gets offered every damn black project there is. (And Charles Randolph Wright, Malcolm Lee, and Rick Famuyiwa…)

Serial, the movie I directed has an incredibly ethnically diverse cast but I didn’t do that on purpose. And a comedy script I wrote called The Funny One centers around a mid 30’s Jewish gal living as a comedy writer in Detroit. If I made that character black just for the sake of making her black, it would ruin a lot of the “character stuff” that was put in there.

So I do see your point.

Pet Peeve alert:

I hate when race and sexual orientation are used as metaphors or analogies. It ain’t the same thing. Not by a long shot.

KONRAD:

That stupid picture of me on IMDB isn’t my fault! My publicist put that up there and I could kill her for doing that. But as long as it’s up there…do you like it?:)

Kevin:

Seems like we agree. And for my analogies, I apologize. They always suck. I’m famous for it.

Kevin, the opposite is true for me. Because I have written stories where the central character(s) are black facing challenges relative to race, I am presumed by most readers and producers to be black. I often hear “well, if you aren’t black, what compelled you write this screenplay?”… as if you have to be a fish to write Finding Nemo.

Konrad, Aussie vs. American is nationality, not race.

Mr. Insufferable, sorry to disagree with you and Mr. Updike, but giving evidence, truth or fictional, can certainly affect and effect social justice and whether or not it is the purpose of the fiction depends on the motives of the author.

Kevin:

Keep it. Makes you look very cool. (Of course, you probably are cool, but how do I know?) ;)

Maryan:

Just an analogy, though, admittedly not a great one. But what is a good analogy for race? Anyway, my point was about making story changes (whether race or nationality) for social/political reasons rather than what is good for the story.

Konrad:

You just Kevin is probably cool because he’s black. Man, I hate that stereotype.

I’m black and I AM NOT COOL.

Konrad:

You just said Kevin is probably cool because he’s black. Man, I hate that stereotype.

I’m black and I AM NOT COOL.

Ya Boy,

I think you may have missed the nature of the exchange between Kevin and Konrad.

KEVIN I just happen to be black.

KONRAD I already knew you were black; your picture on IMDb gave you away. ;)

KEVIN That stupid picture of me on IMDB isn�t my fault! My publicist put that up there and I could kill her for doing that. But as long as it�s up there�do you like it?:)

KONRAD Keep it. Makes you look very cool. (Of course, you probably are cool, but how do I know?) ;)

Ya Boy:

Hey, the only blacks I see on a regular basis are on American TV and movies, and they are all cool. It is simply not possible that you are not. ;)

Kevin and Craig:

When you read a script wherein a character’s race is not mentioned, do you generally assume they are white?

And how do you pronounce your last names? MAY-zin and AR-boh-oo-et? Sorry Kevin, no idea. ;)

It’s MAY-zin. It’s probably supposed to be more like MY-ZIN, as it’s a Slavic name, but I go with may-zin.

A terrific post and an issue that needs to be addressed, but on a larger scale than who gets what role in a movie.

I’m against race. It’s an entirely artificial and man-made construct, it sucks and is stupid and the very concept itself IS racist. What does it exist for, except to label people en masse and sort them into categories rather than do the harder work of getting to know them and judge them on an individual basis?

I’m trying hard to not recognize “race” as a concept and state so on all forms where I’m asked to check race now and I’m kind of hoping that everyone else will start doing so — why should anyone know what race we are? For any reason? Yes, cling to your cultural heritage, but does it have to be anything more than YOUR cultural heritage to be meaningful to you?

Great PBS documentary on this wherein it was shown there is no overwhelming genetic similarity between people of the same “race” and in fact, people of different races turned out be much more genetically similar. So there’s no genetic basis for it — what is there? A visual and xenophobic basis, we just fear people who look different than we do. And we should get over it.

So, I’ve started to refuse to answer the question in the rare circumstance it comes up — Vin Diesel does the same, and this is one of the few things you can like about him — does it broaden his fan base, yes, and that’s probably why he does it, still, it seems to be a class move.

I may be a Pollyanna, but it seems like the goal at the end of this is to recognize only the one, human race and judge each individual on their own merits or lack thereof — so that there can BE a stupid character of ANY “race”, who doesn’t have to symbolize THE WHOLE “RACE” and say ALL MEMBERS OF RACE X ARE STUPID…or a brilliant character of any race — tho’ those NEVER seem to be representative for some reason. The goal’s a long way off, but it starts with small steps.

Why the obsession with labels? Writergurl, you’re half Asian and and half something else and all lesbian, but I bet you’re way more than that.

Unfortunately, in the society I live in, my actions will have little effect, since I present as a member socioeconomically and socially advantage ethnic group (boy, trying to write about “race” without saying “race” or using the name of one of the “races” is hard). And it conflicts with pro-affirmative action stance — but hey, ANYBODY who was EVER treated unfairly, regardless of “race”, ought to get a fair shake, just to balance things karmically — that’s why I support it…I look forward to a time when it will not be necessary, and no one cares about anyone’s ethnicity, but only their merits as an individual.

MLK — color of skin vs. content of their character, right?

cbs milliondollarscreenwriting.com

PS. And still, I enjoy a good ethnic joke, if it’s well told and in the proper spirit. A study in contradictions.

The feeling I get is that Alex may be getting a little bit of a bad rap based on semantics.

Using the term “diversity pass” seems to imply sort of a casual, arbitrary assignment of race. Like changing, “the cop” to “the Asian cop” and feeling like you’ve done Asians a great favor by creating a role for them.

But is that what Alex is really talking about? Or is he doing more of what Phillip Morton says, which is going back through the script after the fact and finding places where ethnicity can be included … and can enhance the quality of the scene/character?

It seems to me that a diversity pass is a good idea WHEN IT MAKES THE SCRIPT MORE INTERESTING.

Oftentimes we write scenes where the main character interacts with a secondary character (a cab driver, a doorman, whatever), and the scenes come out flat. Why?

Because there’s no conflict.

And why would there be? The main character doesn’t know this secondary character — why would they have any conflict?

But if you assign that secondary character a race (or nationality or sexual orientation), you’re creating a prism through which that character views the world.

Suddenly, you’ve got a source of conflict. It may be a direct conflict between the main and secondary ethnic character, or it may be an internal conflict within the secondary character that affects his attitude towards the main character. Either way, that little bit of friction may be all you need to make your scene more interesting.

To use a deliberately over-the-top example:

You’re writing a movie about a bunch of WASPy corporate types (like the oil moguls in SYRIANA). They’re in a meeting, and it’s time to order lunch. They call in the assistant and ask him to suggest a good place to order lunch. He suggests ordering from KFC, then exits.

Yawn. Boring.

Now, same scene, but the assistant is black, and the WASPy corporate types ask if he knows where they can get some good fried chicken. There’s an underlying racist condescension that can totally affect the dynamic of the scene. The assistant still suggests ordering from KFC, and he still exits. But the extra dimension of race can add a little electricity to the WAY he suggests KFC, and the way he exits.

(As I said, an over-the-top example, but I hope it illustrates my point)

Kevin,

You know, comparing gays to blacks doesn’t take anything away from black people. Besides, much as “your” community is loath to admit it, there are many gay people who just happen to be (gasp!) black. It’s funny, the black gay people that I know, and know of, don’t have a problem with the race/sexual orientation analogies. It’s just the straight, often homophobic, black people who suffer from the “Don’t lump THEM in with US” mindset.

Usually, those who use the gay/race anology are trying to find common ground in both groups being denied civil liberties simply because “we” are “different” than the white majority of this country and both groups have suffered from knee jerk discrimination.

Would you have gays compared with Jews? Oh, wait, that’s a race/sexual orientation thing too. Damn. I know, Japanese people! No. Damn. Race rears its ugly head there too… Oh, wait, perhaps you just don’t want “queers” compared to BLACKS! Too bad. Like it or not, blacks and gays ARE the closest in terms of being denied civil liberties, being discriminated against by our military and being hated (even killed) simply for being what we are. I fear the comparisons will continue.

But, I’m all for trying to find something else…

Hmm… let’s see, are there any analogies that DON’T use race/sexual orientation? Oh, I got it, you’d be happier if there was an analogy using gender/sexual orientation? Right. Except… well, then there’d have to be a wholesale consensus that women have been routinely discriminiated against for thousands of years, cause Lord knows, men haven’t. But, then you’d have men the world over swearing that women have been well treated. And if the men were a little over bearing, it’s not discrimination, no… it’s because we all know that women need to be “protected”. As the “weaker” sex, of course. Oh, puh-lease.

Geez, I’m stumped. Other than race/gender and sexual orientation there ARE no differences in humans. Unless you want to go the way of Nazi Germany and use things as trite as hair color and height…

I guess there is no analogy that we could use if we played but your prefences, huh?

Guess we poor gays will just have to solider on alone. No, don’t worry, really, we’ll be ok, even without your “support”. We’re tough. We’ve had to be. Much like any other group of people that have been made to suffer for one reason or another by those who are closed minded and bigoted.

I think the reason race and sexual orientation is not necessarily an accurate comparison is that some can hide being gay if they choose to. It’s not quite so easy to hide your race or ethnicity.

If a gay person chooses to be open and overt about their sexuality, then their experience with discrimination may be similar to what a person of color experiences.

I can’t speak for Kevin’s motivations, but that’s what I got from his comments.

Chris, I am many things…

Lesbian, Half Asian, a goof ball sometimes, a self starter, a business owner, a writer, a dog lover, a romantic at heart, incredibly stubborn, a loyal friend, someone’s daughter, the girl some guy lost his virginity too… all those things and more. BUT. It is a sad fact of life that we are all judged by our exteriors. I don’t look like a typical Asain woman. Nor do I look anything like the stereotypical “dyke”. One of the things that confounds people most about me is that I DO NOT look like these two “facts” about me say I should. You’ve meet me, I’d wager that had someone asked you, (without any prior knowledge of my ethnicity) you’d of said that I was Native American. (That’s what I get the most.) Or, possibly, Eskimo or Hawaiian. And, I’ll wager that you wouldn’t peg me as a lesbian either (based upon the number of guys who hit on me.) People change their behavior towards me when “the truth” about me is revealed to them. People’s perceptions and prejudices about those things play a great deal in how they react to those two facets of who I am. And, it also affects how they treat me when they know those things about me.

Which is all fodder for writing an interesting character. I don’t care if you do it as you are writing the first draft or the fifth, is all I’m saying. (And, I think the crux of what Alex was trying to say.) Make your character come alive somehow, don’t let them be the sterotype that leaps into people’s head. Whether that requires a “pass” or lots of thinking prior to placing fingertips to keyboard is moot.

Warren, as a CLASS, blacks and gays have many smiliarities in being discriminated against. Besides, there have always been some people who are “technically” black, those who are capable of “passing” for white… who have “hid” their blackness (just as some gay people hide their gayness). All this hiding is based upon not wanting to be discrimintaed against.. for any reaason.

ps… “open” and “overt”… two totally different kettle of fish.

Frankly, I’m interested in the virginity story the most, but I’ll put that aside for the moment.

Some gay folks can pass as straight. Some pass as a matter of effort. Others pass because they just naturally don’t show any evident gay mannerisms.

But some gay folks are evidently gay, and there’s nothing they can do to hide it. Happily, most gay folks I know don’t feel the need to (and can be rather critical of other homosexuals who do try and pass).

I guess I’m with writergurl on this one. I’m not sure where the sensitivity about race vs. sexual orientation comes from. All I know is that my pet peeve is “oppression battles”. I still remember a black student and a Jewish student debating which was worse…slavery or the Holocaust.

Which was worse? That’s irrelevant…and insane.

Anyway, while I disagree with writergurl on the whole diversity pass thing, I’m going to stand with her on the gay/race relevance thing.

“You cannot not be an essentialist to some degree. The critique of essentialism is predicated upon essentialism” - Landy and Maclean quoted at Essentialism

I tend to agree with Craig that a ‘diversity pass’ smacks of superficial moral superiority - but thats perhaps because for me race isn’t always an interchangeable thing. While it may be a human-made construct, it certainly can affect the way the world perceives individuals and thus the way said individual perceives the world. This mightn’t always be the case, but that will change from person to person (and from character to character).

“Well, then there’d have to be a wholesale consensus that women have been routinely discriminiated against for thousands of years, cause Lord knows, men haven’t. “

Yup, because the men that were conscripted into Vietnam weren’t being discriminated against… nor were the men sold into slavery… nor were the men that were press-ganged into the British Navy… nor were all the land-less men that were also denied sufferage… nor are all the men who die from testicular cancer each year (more men die of testicular cancer than women die of breast cancer… yet the latter is funded tenfold)… nor were the gay men who were convincted of sodomy?

I’m not trying to say that Women haven’t been oppressed, they have been; but so have some categories of men. Is it less oppressive when its lower class and/or undereducated men?*

Men (especially Black Men) are far far more likely to receive the death penalty as Women… for the same crime. Is this because Women are unfairly perceived as being the ‘weaker sex’ or because Men are unfairly perceived as being the ‘stronger sex’?

Am I just trying to be a victim?

For me, the problem isn’t gender or sexuality or race - the problem is the structures which allow oppression to occur, regardless of those who are being oppressed. Unfortunately, I have little faith that said structures can be destroyed as they ultimately have a symbiotic relationship with power… and Life Is The Will To Power.

… and yes, even if I don’t write ‘Message’ films said thinking permeates every page that I write. Why? Because its a key part of how I perceive and understand the world around me.

Dam the link didn’t come out:

http://www.english.emory.edu/Bahri/Essentialism.html

Stuart:

I’ve been having some issues with links in comments. Not your fault.

Does the diversity pass make sense as a method of correcting for known faults of other movie makers?

For example, suppose you are writing on assignment, and you know the casting director (or agency) who has been chosen for the project simply doesn’t (for whatever reason) give non-white actors a fair go for any role that isn’t racially specified. Is there anyway to address that sort of problem through the writing?

CW:

No. Generally, your job is on its way to completion by the time the casting director is hired. The characters are set.

Secondly, casting directors cast as they’re told. If they’re told black, they cast black. They don’t discriminate. They don’t care. They just want to make the director and producer happy.

I’m gonna have to go with Writergurl on this one. I think what this country needs is more shows about half asian lesbians. Whether their having a pillow fight or playing strip twister half asian lesbians have a lot to teach this hateful, racist, mysoginistic, non-spellchecking country.

DANIEL L:

About my post way up there, referring to Konrad’s post: I was kidding.

I AM VERY COOL.

But Konrad knew that already.

Ah, Konrad, clearly, you’ve been paying attention to my blog. I do love analogies, don’t I? While all analogies break down at some point, I can’t think of one for race that doesn’t break down at the very surface.

I like to think that there is a reason for every characters race. As I wrote in on of my posts (in my blog), it is all about balance the characters.

If a character is white or black doesn’t matter always of course. For example, as Kevin said, if the character was white in Enemy of the State, it would be the same story and all. BUT if the story NEEDS some special characteristics often there is a special ethnicity for it as well.

PS. See “Crash” by Paul Haggis.

Chris Soth: No intent to attack you or anything, but I think “being against race” is quite nonsensical. When asked to describe someone you always refer to the exterior specifics. “She’s got long brown hair in a pony tail and she wears the blue sweater.” Adding the race to that description is exactly that: descriptive, it makes it possible to distinguish people. There’s nothing wrong with that. Something does go wrong however when this description expresses a judgement or if it’s used in a condescending manner. Races exist and there’s nothing wrong with that. Racism however is a very bad thing, but by denying the “concept” of races it’s not going to go away. It’s quite the opposite, people should have to come out and say: “Yeah, races do exist, so f’ing what?”

This reminds me of discussions I’ve had with (some) radical feminists. They got all worked up whenever i suggested there ARE differences between men and women. As if that by admitting there are differences between both genders it would imply that one of the two genders is somehow less.

(Not-directed-to-anybody-rant) I think it very funny that many times people who correct me or even get mad at me whenever I’m referring to someone’s skin color to be descriptive, don’t see the irony when two minutes later I ask them: “You see that guy?” And they answer: “Yeah, the fat one?”

It could be argued that if a character could switch races and work on film, that the character was not written well, so the Enemy of the State argument doesn’t only holds about half the water with me.

I think part of being a writer is bearing your soul to the world. And since race is such a touchy subject, many writers hide their true selves because they don’t want to be seen as racist. It’s OK to have a black mugger if the statistics of the area where the mugging takes place indicate that most muggers are black. It is NOT OK to have a black mugger in the same area and situation, if you are doing it because you think all blacks are muggers.

If I’m writing a story about a professional football player who is a halfback, he’s probably going to be black, because there really are no white halfbacks (Mike Alstott is a full back as far as I know). So if I want a white halfback, that is a big deal, and my script will change if I chose to go in that direction.

And because I’m white I feel that I have to qualify the following remarks with “I’m not a racist, but…” I don’t agree that race is a human construct. Race is. People are different and that’s OK. To suggest that people are different seems to be taboo, but in the same breath we have to be diverse, and it seems wacky to this white writer. People classify things because that is what people do. I think it is one of our defining traits. The problem is when people take observations and use them as a definitive an anwavering description of everything of that type.

As far as I can tell, people of different races look different. Why do we assume that the differences are only skin deep? Because the people in power have used perceived differences to indicate dominance. I believe men and women have different abilities. I think whites, blacks, asians, and all others have some genetic predisposition to certain traits. And that’s OK. One’s not better than the other. Just different.

I obviously fall on the nature side of the nature/nurture debate, but that is another story.

Why can’t we just all get along?

Konrad:

It’s AR-BOO-WAY.

Nearly all George Romero movies were written without ethnicity because Romero prefers to decide that during casting and doesn’t want to exclude a great actor who fits the role, but who is of the wrong ethnicity.

This concept led to a black leading man in the NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD, a choice that amplified the screenplay in numerous ways that were probably unintended when it was written and that made the ending a statement long remembered. Leaving his options opened turned a mediocre movie into a statement on race.

Ethnicity is not always a key component of a character and sometimes its a good idea to keep your options open.

WRITERGURL:

“It’s just the straight, often homophobic, black people who suffer from the “Don’t lump THEM in with US” mindset.”

Whoa, whoa, whoa!

Where in heck did your comment come from? Why did you assume that I was a Black Homophobe?! You took quite the leap there…

“Would you have gays compared with Jews? Oh, wait, that’s a race/sexual orientation thing too”

Huh? Actually you could easily compare Blacks with Jews.

But when I said that I hate when Race and Sexual Orientation are compared it’s simply because…it is not the same thing. One is RACE. The other is SEXUAL ORIENTATION. They are totally and completely separate. My being a Heterosexual and my being Black are not the same. And this is not a “Who’s oppressed more” battle. I just don’t know why in the world you would assume that I was homophobic. I hate to tell you this but my old boss Lee Daniels is Black and Gay. And he hates when Race and Sexual Orientation are compared. It’s simply not the same thing. That’s all I was saying.

Now getting back to the original topic…

Simply put, it would be nice if there were more diverse people up there on screen. Originally I thought my argument slide into the side of casting but you know what? Casting Directors will always assume “White” unless otherwise specified. Especially in television.

I think Philip Morton and Warren Benedetto have a very good point. Just try to make your script interesting. You have to admit, watching “Friends” was hilarious. New York City doesn’t have any Black people? Or Latinos? Or Asians? A “Diversity Pass” could have helped. If you look at Seinfeld, there was people of all races on the show all the time.

But again, I understand what Craig’s saying. Why would you do that? It is kind of Politically Correct and I HATE Politically Correct. But you know what? It all starts with writers. That’s how we progress as a society. Through our artists.

Craig, you your self have said…

“…it occurred to me that the very purpose of Our Thing is to affect an audience. We want them to cry, to laugh, to question their values and their lives. We want them to taste a small bit of death, or to reexperience the feeling they had when they first fell in love. This is powerful stuff. If it weren’t, no one would be shelling out dough for it. Hell, Capra made films to help indoctrinate our troops heading off to World War II.”

And…

“Do we not owe some consideration for our audience, or is this another one of those slippery slopes to disaster? What role does responsibility play for those of us who manufacture culture not just for the United States, but the entire world?”

If you truly believe your own statements, maybe a Diversity Pass ain’t such a bad idea after all…

I’m really enjoying this discussion.

One of the neat things about Neil Gaiman’s Anansi Boys is that, although (because?) the book’s filled with nonwhite characters, white folks are the only ones whose race is mentioned when they first show up.

My stuff tends to be pretty multiethnic, and I guess it’s manipulative. But writing’s manipulation anyway. One of the differences between good writers and bad writers is the degree to which they can make the reader forget they’re being manipulated. Black female judges are maybe too much of a bull’s-eye, but maybe not.

I dunno Craig. I don’t see the same diversity in film that I see in my own neighborhood.

And that’s particularly true when it comes to LEADS.

I can’t think of too many films where the leading guy is Asian, unless of course there’s a “reason” he has to be Asian, as in it’s a Foo-flick.

What do you honestly suppose the chances are right now of selling a script where the lead is an Arab guy? Unless of course there’s a “reason” for him to be Arab, or Native American, or whatever the hell, as in “we’re addressing the ‘issues’ that apply to some kind of stereotype in order to teach everybody a ‘lesson’ about how ‘we’re all the same just under the skin”.

But we’re not, are we? At least not when it comes to casting leads we’re not.

And this goes waaaaaaaaaaaaay beyond “race” or ethnicity imo.

SMART = NERD is another stereotype that exists, and from what I can see at least, it exists pretty much exclusively in film. Over the years I’ve wound up sitting across from a lot more than one “rocket scientist”, and I can tell you from extensive personal first hand experience, that there is just no way in HELL anybody would be able to tell which person is “the player”, which one was the “redneck truck driver”, the “Formula One race car driver”, the “college linebacker”, still very hot former “cheerleader”, “stripper”, “cowpoke”, or “Mob wise guy”, from the “theoretical particle physicist”, in a line up. At least not in the real world.

And yet… in Hollywood, and no place BUT Hollywood, in order to play “the scientific genius”, you’ve got to don the goofy, totally out of touch with the slightest sense of fashion or style specs, and have “issues” with women (if you’re a guy, or be hopeless attracting men if you’re a woman).

GAY = “SWISHY”. Honest to God, at least 3/4’s of the people I’ve met that are gay DON’T SWISH. They’re not into “show tunes”, “track lighting”, nor do they have a “thing” for Barbara Streisand. They drink as much beer as anyone else, and yell “BLAAAAAGH!” at the TV screen in a sports bar with every bit as much gusto as the straight guys, and do it for exactly the same reasons anybody else does in the bar, ‘cause it’s fun, and they’re enjoying themselves.

And yet… in film,…

Honest to God Craig, you’re going to think I’m making this up to counter your point, but I swear on my mother’s eyes THAT IT’S TRUE - the ONLY time I was ever mugged, was by a pair of fellow Caucasians. The little scrawny guy had blonde hair, and his gorilla side kick had light brown hair. It wasn’t “in New York”, but it was at a bus stop in Union City N.J. on the way to New York, right across the Hudson from Manhattan, in a predominantly Hispanic neighborhood.

My auto mechanic’s name is Tarik, his daughters wear head scarves. What do you think the chances would be of him being cast as a Marine drill sergeant if he could act? Care to guess what he did for a living before opening his garage?

My next door neighbor is a big burly design development engineer that specializes in “vision systems” (eyes for industrial robots). The hours he spends in the gym every week show, he’s more Italian than most of the cannoli makers are these days in New York, and he really does say things like “Aaaaay, howyadoin’?” and “Fugeddabowdit. He tinks who he is. Fukum.” But can you really picture a guy like that being cast to play exactly what he does in real life? I can’t. Not unless he puts on enough weight to pass for nerdy, and loses the tough guy image he exudes.

My cousin, who’d have to have green blood to be any more Irish than he is, was a Dim Sum chef in China Town until the owner retired and “Ritchie me bi-yo” started working for Sprint.

Atool, my neighbor on the opposite side of my house from “Yo-sep” the engineer, is originally from India. Atool came here when he was around ten years old, and believe it or not, does NOT work at our local 7-Eleven, he works on the floor of the NYSE as a trader.

As for the person that is behind the counter of the local 7-Eleven, that’d be Ellen, fiftyish, and of French extraction. She came over some time during or just after WWII with her mother who was a “war bride”. I don’t know what parts she’d get with her still discernable accent if she was an actress, but I doubt that “the woman behind the counter” of a scene taking place in a 7-Eleven would be one she’d play all that often.

If I write characters like this into my stories, am I guilty of putting some kind of “utopian vision of what the world ought to be like” before my story? Or just reflecting what I see around me?

Mike:

Here, here!

And probably the most interesting concept in your post is this:

Why does there have to be a REASON someone appears in a screenplay that isn’t white? Why can’t they just be non-white? Or gay?

Why does race and sexual orientation have to be plot points?

How ‘bout this? The main character is from Indonesia. Just because.

Just because…

Craig, I think we are only in disagreement about one thing… the timing of when you tweak your characters. You’re a fan of the “think it all out before you type” school and I just don’t give a damn when you give your character a tweak, as long as they are interesting.

Kevin… I’m sorry you thought I was calling YOU a homophobe. If you read my sentence again, you will note that I did say “often homophobic”. If you’re so against the race/sexual orientation analogy, sugggest another. Go ahead. I’ll wait.

Stuart… again, as a CLASS of people, women have been far far more oppressed then men, and they continue to be oppressed… Iraq, Iran, Arabia, etc., remember those contries? How about Slavic women being kidnapped and sold into the sex slave trade? Please we could go on comparing the mistreatement but I bet you that I’d “win”, given that your examples, except for the cancer thing are all from the past. Meanwhile, right this second, some woman is being forced to be a prositute in a Slavic country, and another is being made to behave as the men of her Islamic country have decreed she must.

Your comparisions of cancer funding baffle me. If testicular cancer is killing that many men, why haven’t the men organized themselves like the women did 20 some years ago and begin working towards getting the funding needed? The breast cancer funding has NOT been a “Oh, let’s drop all this money on the girls” thing you imply it has. It has been a hard won and long fought struggle. Don’t get me wrong, I think cancer, of any kind, needs to be fought, agggresively, but if we start comparing lack of funding in diseases research and the search for a cure, then I gotta tell you we’re right back on the door step of the gays and blacks. AIDS? Remember it? Killed hundreds of thousands of people… still killing people today. It was completely underfunded in the first ten years or so that it became prevalent. I don’t wish to get into a discussion about disease when we are trying to talk about race and how it informs your characters, so I’ll refer you to the book “And the Band Played On.” by Randy Shilts. I don’t know if you’ll be able to find it, it’s out of print. Perhaps you could watch the movie by the same name although I feel it has less impact.

ps. Kevin, I wasn’t comparing Jews to Blacks, I was asking if you’d rather gays were compared to Jews, rather than to Blacks… you misread me.

Writergurl:

I know you weren’t comparing Jews to Blacks. I was just saying that you could. But no, you can’t compare Jews to Gays. It’s not the same.

Man…we are waaaaaaay off topic.

You can compare Homosexuality and Religion. I know, I know—you’re looking at the word “Jew” and saying, “Hey, that is a religion!”

It is.

But it isn’t.

Jewish people have the unfair disadvantage of being Jew by birth. David Cross, a hilarious comedian talks about being an Atheist but still considered a Jew no matter what.

Heh heh heh, I can already see into your mind with,”Gay people are born gay too!” I happen to agree but Jews win in the oppression department (Oh my God, did I just say that?)

Other than Jewish, Homosexuality and Religion are comparable analogies.

And women are way more discriminated against than men; from the dawn of time until well…now. No contest.

So let’s see…what’s the score?

THE OPPRESSION METER (1 TO 10)

• Blacks:
  10 points. You have the whole slavery thing. Then there’s still the discriminated against thing. Oh, and let’s not forget the Tuskegee Airmen… AND we get “ashy” when our skin is dry (If any non-whites know what “ashy” is, you get a point).

• Jews:
  10 points. Did you see The Ten Commandments? Did you see Schindler’s List? ‘nuff said!

• Gays:
  8 points. They get beaten up for being who they are. They get disowned for being who they are. Can’t even join the military if they know you are. But you lose 2 points because being gay is absolutely FABULOUS!

• Brown People: 7 points. No one can tell the difference between the Indians, Pakistani, Arab, or whatever else flavor you guys come in. EVERYONE thinks you’re a terrorist. EVERYONE thinks you at least know a terrorist. But you lose 3 points because your publicity sucks.

Oh boy…

I think there is one sobering thing that many forget about. And its a fact that you can’t escape.

Movies and TV shows are made to garner the largest audience possible. People like people who look like them. It doesn’t make them racist. It makes them comfortable. And because the country is still white by a large majority, the lead characters in movies and TV will default to white until the population shifts enough to warrant otherwise. Since white people are procreating a much slower rate than Blacks and Hispanics, that gap is narrowing sooner rather than later.

Also, writers write what they know. And if writers are predominantly white, the “default” characters in their scripts will be white. It is how your brain works, and how your society is.

It’s a cold hard fact that many people want to ignore because we are supposed to be above that.

And I’m not saying it’s right. I’m saying that its that way, and you can’t change it. You really can’t. Try getting a studio to make a 150 million adventure movie with a black lead. The numbers will tell them that they’d be better off with a white person because they would get a broader audience.

All it takes is one maverick studio and a cooperating public to prove them wrong. Will it happen? In small increments.

I thought Denzel Washington could be the man to cross the threshhold. I like him alot. He’s charismatic. He has a good look. He’s a great actor. No dice so far.

Instead, it looks like we will have to endure “tweener” actors like The Rock or Vin Diesel.

Everyone wants to be the victim, but it is we who decide what is on the screen in the end. The gears may turn slow, but they do turn. Audiences will lose interest in the standard fare, and one day a studio will go out on a short limb and make a movie with an ethnic actor and the B.O. will be huge, and all of a sudden, everyone is looking to make the same thing.

It’s just a matter of time.

In a weird way, Craig is guilty of the exact thing he’s railing against. Here’s what I mean - making a character a specific race or nationality for no good reason is as pointless as specifying what color shirt they’re wearing, or specifiying their eye color. If, however, it’s a factor in the story - no matter how small - it is, of course, a fine thing to do. The REAL point of Craig’s essay is that every word matters, and if it doesn’t, it doesn’t belong in the script. But instead of saying that, he’s arbitrarily chosen to make it about race, which is…. well, arbitrary, and gets in the way of the larger point.

And, for the record, Night of the Living Dead is by no means a mediocre movie.

Thomas:

Two words. WILL SMITH.

But…you’re right. That’s only one. He’s the only black bankable star.

You’re right in a lot of ways. As a producer I am always thinking about ethnicity in film. We all do. To say that we don’t is a lie.

Sad…

I thought about Will Smith after I posted.

He’s bankable and he’s funny. I really liked him in Hitch. And he is spectacular in MIB, which I think just might be the funnest movie ever made. Is funnest a word? I don’t know, but it’s the only way to describe the funnatude of that movie.

Too bad MIB2 was a turd. Will Smith is a funny man with an honest look about him. I guess I was thinking of more of a serious and strong Harrison Ford type. I guess that is why MIB really works. Smith has the likability and star power and Jones has that rough, strong presence.

Mike Tully, great post, great points.

Made me think of a joke an Asian comedian I know used to make: “I tried to get a job at as a cook at a Chinese restaurant, but they told me I wasn’t Mexican enough.”

(If you don’t live in L.A., this probably makes no sense.)

My wife has a friend who fits every stereotype of the dumb blonde. Imagine my surprise when I found out that she is, quite literally, a ROCKET SCIENTIST. She builds missile systems for Raytheon.

Truth is stranger than fiction.

Working backwards…

Will Smith, Denzel Washington and Jamie Foxx are all bankable enough to lead huge movies, and they do.

Jabez:

I picked race because I was replying to another blogger’s specific discussion about race. I didn’t just wake up and think, “I want to talk about race today.” I agree…that would have been very weird.

Kevin:

Every aspect of a character should be purposeful.

I know what “ashy” is. What’s my prize? :)

Writergurl:

The reason men don’t band together and march to raise money to fight testicular cancer is because we are pathetic. I’m serious. We’re so squeamish about our own balls (and more to the point, other men’s balls), that the idea of marching for ball health makes us either squirm…or laugh. Frankly, men would rather just die quietly than dedicate our lives to testicle health, or rectal health, or prostate health…because we’re idiots. I mean it. My dad almost died from colorectal cancer, and he and I STILL laugh when we say “colorectal”. Boys will be boys…

Mike:

If you’re writing a story about your neighborhood, you would be crazy not to write exactly who you see around you! That’s my point, frankly. If you feel obligated to be truthful to what you see around you, than so should we all.

And sorry about those white muggers. New Jersey, huh? Well, I knew as soon as I posted that, someone would come up with a white mugger story. :)

As you know, though, white people prefer to either rob billions of dollars through securities fraud…or kill people by the dozens and hide them under their houses.

The reason you see so few Asian leads is this: Hollywood doesn’t believe they can make as much money from Asian leads. That doesn’t mean they’re right, but they’re not necessarily wrong either. Audience tastes change over time, but one thing’s for sure: you can’t legislate it. Either they want something, or they don’t.

Craig,

“I picked race because I was replying to another blogger’s specific discussion about race. I didn’t just wake up and think, “I want to talk about race today.” I agree…that would have been very weird.”

Yes, I understand that. But the point remains that you kept the subject confined to race. I see this in a lot of bad screenwriting books - they read bad scripts, then focus on the specific issue, rather than the larger one. The issue isn’t what he’s saying about race, it’s what he’s saying about writing in general. By staying in the arena of race, you have bought into the very thing you’re complaining about, in an interesting sort of way.

As for the issue of muggers, there are plenty of American cities that have negligible Black populations and yet, somehow, still have street crime.

CRAIG:

You say that every aspect of a character should be purposeful. But are you honestly, honestly telling me that a main characters “whiteness” is purposeful?

24 is the best show on television.

Are you saying that Tony Alameda is Latino for a reason? In the 4 years it’s been coming on, it’s never been addressed. At all. Not even a word of Spanish. And his wife is Half Japanese. Never addressed it. It’s not an issue.

I guess what I’m saying is, race can be relevant to a character. It can also be irrelevant.

24 is the best show on television?

One of the better shows - I dunno about BEST -

Kevin:

I can’t speak for the writers of 24.

I do make characters white purposefully. And like I said, I never just think of them as white. White people are diverse too, ya know.

Some characters’ race is so irrelevant to whom they are, that they can be cast any which way, and I cede to the casting people and the director and producer.

But I always know.

Jabez:

I don’t understand your point. I’m not writing a screenplay or a book about screenwriting. I’m writing essays about topics. Specificity is a virtue.

I agree that there are plenty of white muggers in meth country. There’s just not that many in Gotham.

This discussion pops up every so often over on Wordplay. And when it does, I usually have a word or two to add. (Well, I usally have a word or two to add in the discussion anyway - Hi, Ted :-) - but especially when the discussion is dealin w/ race).

More about me. I was born and raised in the Chocolate City (Washington, DC). Went through the inner city public school sytem, and graduated from the predominantly Black Howard University. Been livin out in Long Beach, CA for just under six years now. And I wanna say that from my chocolate perspective, when I write stories, the characters are not White by default. They’re Black.

For instance, If I said to my nephew, look at that crazy man! He’d know that the man was Black cuz I didn’t qualify it w/ any other racial or ethnic descriptions. Black is our natural default. If I meant anything other than Black, I woulda said: Look at that White guy, Asian guy, etc. But because I didn’t, he knows the man is Black. Cuz havin been raised in predominantly chocolate DC, Black is our natural default.

And when I was studyin scriptwritin at Howard, I was amazed to learn that in HollyWood, unless otherwise specified, the characters are usually assumed to be White. They are usually White by default. That blew my mind. Although it makes sense that those who come from predominantly White areas might have their characters White by default. Not cuz of any malicious intent, but simply cuz that’s what they’re used to.

But it would be nice for folks to realize that not all us do this (that is, not all of us make our characters White by default). Those of us who come from more … colored areas may have default characters who’re other than White. And as such, I don’t think I need a reason for my characters not to be White. To me, the question is why aren’t they Black? Not, why aren’t they White.

Granted, bein an aspirin screenwriter, attemptin to write blockbuster films, I’m well aware of the White as default thingee. So I can adjust my writin accoringly. But still. My default is naturally Black.

Also wanna add that I saw that PBS special that someone else mentioned re: race. There is more genetic variation in the fruit fly than there is in humans. This thing we call race is nothin but a reaction to the climactic conditions in which our ancestors were raised, particularly once they emigrated from Mother Africa.

One more thing. Regardin Craig’s bit about muggers. I found the crime stats from 2003 on the Department of Justice Website. As usual, Blacks are primarily committin violent crimes against other Blacks, and Whites against other Whites.

For multiple offender victimizations, 67% of the time Blacks are committin violent crimes against other Blacks, and only 17% of the time against Whites. For Whites, 39% of their crimes are against other Whites, and 7% of the time they’re against Blacks. There’s also a slot for mixed race offendors, which shows there’s some harmony at least :-)

Ahem.

For single offender victimizations, Whites commit 63% of the violent crimes, Blacks 21%.

Here’s a link to the site. (hope it works):

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/abstract/cvus/race.htm

“Some characters’ race is so irrelevant to whom they are, that they can be cast any which way, and I cede to the casting people and the director and producer.”

So then…we kind of agree?

-> Women terribly oppressed in the Middle East:

I personally wouldn’t say so. They probably are, but we’ve yet to see suicide en masse of all those opressed, depressed females over there.

What we civilized Western types often forget is that people all over the world live in what we might perceive as shitholes, and moreover, love these shitholes because it’s home. We can’t all be Americans.

And those of us who are well-to-do (as in not hungry) are just two meals and a powercut away from being barbarians.

It’d be nice if everyone everywhere got to choose how and where to lead their lives, but as this is not going to happen any time soon, it’s best just to hope everyone’ll manage, somehow. And that it’s probably for the best if people’d just mind their own business.

Kev:

Yeah, I think we’ve been agreeing for a while.

Karppi:

Moral equivalence aside, women in Islamic nations tend more often than not to be unable to vote, forced to wear certain clothing, unable to attain driver’s licenses, and generally treated unequally under the law. That is an unacceptable situation for any liberal-minded human to contemplate, regardless of our own tenuous grasp on liberty.

Mariama:

Those statistics reflect the very real fact of white criminality.

However, if you could find statistics for street robbery in NYC, I think you’d find that the large majority of perpetrators would be people of color, just as you’d find that the statistics for street robbery in Salt Lake City would overwhelmingly be Caucasians.

Ergo, the oddness of the “white mugger” in a Batman movie.

I love the phrase “Chocolate City”, by the way, but only beccause it sort of reminds me of actual chocolate. :)

I find it odd that you’ve always automatically assigned race to your characters, but were “amazed” to learn that Hollywood does the same. Why? If it’s natural to you, why is it so amazing that it’s natural to everyone else?

Personally, I think it’s natural in the sense that it’s easy. Lazy, even. We all do it to some extent. I have to force myself to figure out if my characters are overweight, for instance. I always imagine them as “actor-sized,” forgetting that actors really do come in different sizes.

What I don’t do is go back through a script and fatten them up. :)

“I agree that there are plenty of white muggers in meth country. There�s just not that many in Gotham.”

Craig, have you got any stats on this? I am mostly onboard with your post, but a couple of comments — like the one denying the existence of white NYC muggers — makes me a little sqeamish about admitting it.

Are “actor-sized” people what the public really want to see, or do they really want fat people? As in, insert the fat guy for Brad Pitt in his next flick. Power to the fat people!

The audience makes the decision to watch “actor-sized” people, not us. Same goes for race/sex/religious matters. And it’s up to them, not us, to diversify the big screen. This is more of a societal issue than one of writing.

I blogged my disagreement with Craig’s thesis today. Craig already posted in response to the response, which means it’s now a blog tangle. So my apologies. But I didn’t want to hijack his thread with a massive post.

My basic argument is that assigning ethnicity (or more specifically, surnames that suggest ethnicity) is a useful way of helping the reader keep track of who’s who. I say, go ahead and make the police detective Korean, because when you meet him again 20 pages later, you’re more likely to remember who the hell he is. Is it “necessary” that he be Korean? No. It’s completely arbitrary. But as a screenwriter, you make a thousand completely arbitrary decisions with every script. Done smartly, it’s a decision that makes your script more readable.

That it has some sociological implication isn’t really the point.

I don’t purposefully write toward a race. I don’t do the visual descriptions, I tend toward the personality descriptions (which I know is a big no-no, being it’s the stuff you can’t film). I figure the personality description informs a lot better than the visual. We know from the get-go what kind of people we’re dealing with.

The only time I dealt with writing toward race, consciously, was writing a Without A Trace spec that takes place in a prison. I figured they’d interview all kinds of people, and that race (since the team was looking for a missing skinhead) was an important part of the script. I did a stereotype pass. Not to ensure that I was being PC, because frankly, I don’t give a shit about being PC.

I did it because I didn’t want my writing to be stale. I didn’t want the stereotypical black prisoner. Or the stereotypical asian prisoner. Or stereotypica hispanicI didn’t want to do all that gang shit. I didn’t even want stereotypical aryans (if there is such a thing). I wanted my characters to be different than anything out there.

It wasn’t a diversity pass as you’ve illustrated in your post about AE’s post. It was about creating interesting characters in an interesting arena.

I recently wrote a pilot about a husband and wife. I specifically don’t mention race, because the wife could be played by Gabrielle Union, and just as easily be played by Morena Baccarin.

I’m about to write a script that will deal heavily with race and racism, I plan to tackle it in the same way that I tackled the WaT spec. I’ll write it, and I’ll play with the stereotypes. Not because I’m afraid of offending anyone, but because I think all characters, no matter what color, should be interesting, and not what they appear.

And one last thought, it was hysterical to read you have to qualify what kind of Indian that character was “(of India).” So many people worry about offending Native Americans, who I believe now prefer to be called Indian again (so hard to keep up), that no one thinks about it being kind of weird to Indians for Native Americans (which I believe is the best term) to also be called indian.

I mainly say this because I’ve spent a lifetime explaining that my mother’s Indian — from India. Usually in response to people asking what tribe she’s from.

I’ll sign off using my old elementary school nickname,

Kemosabe

More often than not, you say? Pardon me if I don’t take your word for it.

Islamic countries with universal suffrage: Algeria, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Benin, Burkina Faso, Cameroon, Chad, Comoros, Djibouti, Gabon, Gambia, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Indonesia, Iran, (Iraq used to be, but they could only vote for Saddam), Jordan, Libya, Malaysia, Maldives, Mauritania, Morocco, Niger, Oman (though nothing much to vote for there), Pakistan, Qatar, Senegal, Sierra Leone, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia, Turkey Uganda, Yemen

None for females: Kuwait (and very restricted for males as well), Saudi Arabia

No suffrage: Brunei, United Arab Emirates

And Lebanon lets some women vote (over 21 with elementary education), while it’s compulsory for men.

List of Islamic countries found with Google, suffrage checked from the CIA world factbook.

A whole different can of worms is whether the voters get to vote on anything that’s going to make a difference, but that problem seems to appear hand in hand with elections, whether the country in question is Islamic or not.

Craig,

“I don’t understand your point. I’m not writing a screenplay or a book about screenwriting. I’m writing essays about topics. Specificity is a virtue.”

It can be. In this case, it’s a curse, because it’s now become a discussion of race, when the real issue is screenwriting. If your response had been about the wrongheadedness of specifying ANY character trait or detail that doesn’t matter, it would be more to the real point. But buy picking up on race, you’ve made this a discussion of race.

The bottom line is that if a detail matters to the story, it should be in the story, and if it doesn’t, it shouldn’t. That’s a very simple rule, and one you can apply to a million different factors. By making the discussion specifically about one, you give undue weight to that one factor.

Imagine the blog entry that bothered you was in defense of assigning specific clothes to each character. It’s the exact same violation of Screenwriting 101 as assigning specific race or nationality when it’s not relevant. We could just as easily be having this back and forth about Izod shirts vs. Polo shirts, and it would be just as relevant to the real issue as race is. By focussing on race, instead of specificity, you have pointed the spotlight away from the real issue. That’s all I’m saying. Anyone reading all these posts looking for insight into screenwriting is going to be rightfully confused. Rather than getting that details are important only when they’re relevant, they’re now going to start worrying about the racial makeup of their characters… or not. It’s all kind of a mess, and the only thing that matters is when to specify details and when not to. Whether or not there are Black muggers in Salt Lake City doesn’t have a whole lot to do with the issue….

CRAIG:

Well…we don’t entirely agree but close enough. But when I read John August’s post I thought, “Oh, that’s who I agree with!”:)

It is about being specific. But race really is arbitrary unless it advances the story or the character. Because in reality I really don’t think people walk around thinking, “I’m black, I’m black, I’m white, I’m white…I’m GAY!!!!”

Personally, if I watch a movie and a characters race comes into play in every scene and it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the story or even advance it…I’m bored. No, not bored. Annoyed. Because that’s not reality.

And if the Casting Director can randomly switch around races then the character’s race truly was arbitrary.

If it’s all Interchangeable then it truly doesn’t matter. The point is to be interesting.

Kevin, religion? Really? That’s the best you can do? The mind boggles.

When I was asking about Jews, it was in the context of race. NOT religious persecution. Which we don’t have much of these days, btw. AThe context of my bringing up Jews was as in, so you don’t want to compare gays with blacks, which other race would you rather we use? Jews? Japanese? What? (But, I suspect you knew that, my writing is not that murky.)

So, religion is what you would compare it too? Well, you MIGHT be closer if being gay were a choice. Which, as a woman who was engaged before figuring out she was lesbian, I can tell you from personal experience…. it ain’t. See, it’s like this… my fiancee? I loved him, and thought (still think) he was a great guy. When he walked into a room, I was happy to see him. But. It was nothing like what I felt when my best friend (a woman) walked into the same room. When she walked in, my world lit up. SHE, not he, became the center of my world. I loved him but I was madly in love with her. Did I sit down one day and decide to be gay? No. But, my feelings for her were undeniable and real. So, I sat down, searched my soul and discovered that I was not willing to sublimate my true self in order to conform to societal expectations. THAT is the ONLY CHOICE I made. I didn’t ask for those feelings for her, I didn’t seek out being gay, but neither did I seek to deny my feelings. You didn’t seek to be black but you don’t try to make yourself “white” do you? I know you’re not willing to believe it but trust me… it’s the same thing. It is what it is.

As for the people walking around thinking they are whatever… I don’t think its a concious thought process, but I do believe that being white, black, Indian, gay, straight, whatev… is integral to your perceptions of the world and is a filter through which you view the world, and as a writer a filter through which you write your version of the world. Your reality is not mine but that doesn’t make either of them less valid.

The point is not only to be interesting, but to be true to your character’s perception of the world…. via whatever filters they have in place.

Craig, my problem w/ this has to do w/ what I think you’re sayin. Please note: I’m not sure if this is what you’re actually sayin. Just that this is how I perceive it.

Seems like you’re sayin that characters should be White, unless there’s a specific story-related reason for them to be otherwise. Or rather, you shouldn’t mention the race of your characters, unless the race is an integral part of the story. Is that what you’re advocatin? If so then I disagree.

Not mentionin the race - and not usin any other ways to show that the characters are not White - will sorta ensure that the reader thinks the characters are White. Since White will most likely be their default choice anyway. I don’t agree w/ that stance.

I’m more inclined to follow John August’s example, but not for the reason he gives, though his reason is great. My reason is cuz I’d like to shake up the mindsets.

I mentioned earlier that I grew up in DC. Well, throughout my public school education, all of my schoolmates have been Black (save maybe 5 Latinos and two Asians). Oh and we had one White school mate. One. And that was when I was in high school, and we all thought that kid (or the White boy, as he was called) was a nark (he only lasted a coupla months there).

There’s a type of myopia that develops in that kinda sheltered environment, and growin up in that environment I fell victim to it as well. I never gave it a second thought that if/when I said man, boy, girl, woman, etc, and didn’t preface it w/ a racial descriptor, that the race was assumed (by me and by all my Black family & friends) to be Black. It was an unconsious decision. Until my professor mentioned what Hollywood does this, only when it did it it was the reverse. White was the default.

Huh?

That blew my mind cuz I’d never really thought about it before. And it meant that I’d now have to qualify my Black characters by specifyin their races. But also cuz it revealed how hung up we (myself included) are on this thing we call race. A man isn’t just a man. He’s Black, White, Asian, Latin, Arab, etc. That botheres me, but I’m not sure why exactly. I mean, if I were to visit Russia or Japan, I’d most likely be referred to as the Black woman. Or the American Black woman. So what’s the big deal? I’d like for there to be a time when race didn’t matter at all. I’d like to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony….

I’m well aware that many of the powers that be in Hollywood most likely come from environments that’re predominantly White, and so their defaults will be White. So in order to shake them out of that and help broaden their horizons, I’d be more apt to use name clues (Jamal, Shaquawn, Mr. Chau, etc) to show the race of the characters — if/when race wasn’t necessary for the story. Or rather, I’d use names to show that the characters are not all White.

And I’ve just had a lightbulb moment. Writin this has helped me pinpoint the reason why the not mentionin the race - or not leavin any clues that the characters are non-White stance bothers me so much. It’s cuz it seems by doin that … it’s like sayin that I’m invisible. I don’t count. I don’t matter, unless it’s an integral part of the story. That White folks count regardless. White matters regardless of whether it’s story specific or not. White matters, everyone else doesn’t.

And to me … well, I am an integral part of the story, too. We all are. Latins, Asians, we all make up the fabric of America. Not just Whites. (or Blacks, for that matter). I know that’s not what you’re sayin, I know that’s not what you mean, but that’s what I hear. That’s the implication, to me.

As for Gotham city, I’m sorry but I’m not a comic book geek. Was Gotham supposed to be a city similar to (or synonimous w/) New York City? I always thought of it as a generic major urban area. But then I’ve only seen the films —never read the comics.

Mariama

Mariama:

Hmm. Not sure how you got that.

“Seems like you’re sayin that characters should be White, unless there’s a specific story-related reason for them to be otherwise. Or rather, you shouldn’t mention the race of your characters, unless the race is an integral part of the story. Is that what you’re advocatin? If so then I disagree.”

No, I’m saying that characters should have a race. That’s all. There is no default. They must be black, white, Asian, or something. We have to pick one. I always leave clues as to all of my characters’ race…so I think we agree,