If You're Not In The Forum...You're Missing The Turman
Turman smash!These days, we’re clocking nearly 30,000 unique visitors a month at The Artful Writer. That’s great, but a lot of you are missing out on one of the best parts of this site: the Forum. Registering is free and easy, and the forum features one of our more popular offerings—the Ask A Pro section.
Right now, John Turman is our Pro, and he’s doling out advice and answers far more valuable than the stuff people pay for…be it in books or conventions or script analysts.
You can join the Forum and check it out for yourself, but for those who are lazy, here’s some of John’s insights and advice…
…it’s important to respect genre. Genre is just another word for audience expectations. You can cross them, mash them up, violate the expectations, but do it judiciously and know what you’re doing when you break “rules.”
Seriously, the only thing that gives you an edge is writing. Finishing marketable material. If you’re writing, you should produce 3-4 projects a year, finished works. For pay, or on spec if you’re not paid. These are the closest a writer comes to having a work force. They go out and circulate and maybe come back with money or a job.
Storyboard work helps a bit when you’re mapping action. Legal background hurts when you’re starting out. Any lack of ignorance hurts when you’re starting out. You should be naive and enthusiastic and wildly productive but if you know a bit of what actually goes on in the business, it’s easy to self-censor and that’s bad.
Protect your process. Whatever your process is, whatever you need to do to organize your life so that you can finish 3 projects a year. I was speaking at USC and sharing the session with an agent, who went on about how a writer needs to protect his process — the things he needs to do and organize his life and routine to make writing as regular and primary as possible. A great speech. I wish early on that I had an agent who told me those things.
I recommend that you don’t go out with your script for feedback, to agents, to the market, until you’ve at least begun your next project. An outline, notes, the actual script. This is protecting your process. It’s easier to take negativity, rejection, or even smoke blown up your ass when you’re engaged in another creative work. It keeps the focus on what matters - the work. If someone trashes your script, that’s okay, because the one you’re working on now… that’s the brilliant one. It helps you survive.
Writing is not about waiting until you’re inspired to create magic. The people who think that aren’t professional writers. They teach candle-making at the Bodhi Tree bookstore. Inspiration comes to the prepared mind. Sit down and work. We all need to write a lot of bad pages to get to the good ones.
There are useful storytelling theories. You can come up with some yourself. But the paradigms and graphs and charts of rising action… that stuff is mostly crap and has probably overcomplicated the process for more writers than they have ever helped. I have plenty of theories of various sorts and problem-solving tools, that I’ve found for myself, but there’s not the time here for that. Read those books, they can inspire and give an idea or two, but don’t follow them. Most of them are written by failed or lousy screenwriters. See movies, read scripts. Just tell a story and make sure it’s in the right format.
What we usually miss when we talk about films is the sense of newness and innocence through which we viewed films 10 or 20 years ago, more than the films themselves.
That’s why an obsession with convention, with how the big writers write certain scenes or handle certain situations, will hold you back. Study them, learn technique and craft, but you had better have something unique of your own to say with that genre and a unique way to say it.
I don’t believe in the concept of writer’s block. This can make for some awkward times when I’m not getting done. I think it’s all less mysterious and mystical than that. I just think it’s an indulgent concept. And even if it does exist, it serves no good purpose to believe in it. I don’t buy into ‘Demons”. Issues and psychological motivational problems maybe. A decent book on the “problem” of procrastination is THE WAR OF ART by Stephen Pressfield. Treat it like a real job, not magic. Same as living a moral life. Religion is superstition, in writing as in anything. It may give added ‘meaning’ but it creates magical thinking which is ultimately pretty disempowering.
Conflict is the method of drama. It arises from character. Going back to Aristotle (read ‘Poetics) and before (Plato, Socrates), the Greek philosophical model seeks to resolve conflict through discourse. This is dramatic story-telling in essence. This dialectic is an exchange of propositions. The thesis is the first proposition. It can be a question or plan or idea/value the character holds. The antithesis is the counter proposition or obstacle, an opposing force. The synthesis is what results or resolves, transforming the material and the conflict between the thesis and antithesis into something new. This is where the idea of 3 act structure comes from. I use ‘thesis-antithesis-synthesis’ as philosophical short-hand for the basic structure of drama. As Syd Field would say, get your character up a tree, throw rocks at him, get him down. Going up the tree is the thesis, it’s the character’s solution to some problem. In the tree he has rocks thrown at him (antithesis), complicating the action. The synthesis is how and why he finds a way down from the tree. It’s the under structure of the play or movie, as well as being repeated internally as the basic structure of the smaller units contained within, the scene.
Pretty good stuff, I think, and you don’t even have to buy a pricey ticket to the Screenwriting Expo or anything. I hope to see you there.
Who knew Turman was lurking around here? The man offers much. The following, in particular, made me jump up and down with glee:
“That’s why an obsession with convention, with how the big writers write certain scenes or handle certain situations, will hold you back. Study them, learn technique and craft, but you had better have something unique of your own to say with that genre and a unique way to say it.”
Yes. God, yes. God, god, god, yes. I take it a step farther (further?) and suggest that folks eschew reading screenplays altogether. Once you learn the form, there’s nothing of value to learn from them that you can’t learn better by watching movies and reading actual literature. Nobody ever learned how to be a writer by reading screenplays. It’s a crap literary form, not meant to be read, or studied. Scripts are meant to be made into movies, not appreciated on their own.
I’m also kinda down on screenwriting conferences and how-to books, although I’m not above getting me some of that goody bag action in exchange for popping up and blathering. Put it this way - I’m happy to do an interview in Creative Screenwriting, but that doesn’t mean I think anyone should actually read the goddam thing. I like to think of myself as more of a publicity whore than a hypocrite….
Anyway….
Great stuff, John. I’d forgotten how much I missed your voice.
So the forums are worth visiting again?
I used to be a regular, but the influx of your buddies last summer filled the forums with endless threads of in-jokes and joshing. The gems were too hard to find in the dross.
I’ll check it out again, I suppose.
Webs:
Well, Turman is one of my buddies, so you take the good, you take the bad…
The nice thing about the forum is that you can put certain users on “ignore,” so if there are some folks who drive you crazy, just add them to your Ignore List and you won’t have to deal with them.
Craig, it’s been echoed a thousand times, but what you and the Pro’s have done with that section of the board is pretty damned incredible. As an unproduced writer I’ve learnt more from those posts than I ever could have with a lifetime of screenwriting books. So thank you for another kick-ass portion of the Artful.
I’m not sure if it’s something you already have in the pipeline but have you considered plucking out the gems from all the threads and putting them into a single format or edition? I’ve been doing a similar thing since you started the board and it makes for a much more cohesive read.
Doug:
I really appreciate that. There aren’t any plans for a single format just yet—I kind of like that people have to work for it a little bit—but you never know…
Webs,
What Craig means is, “Put Talbott on IGNORE.”
Seriously, there are a lot of working writers on the AW Forum who joke around, but they also usually do try to answer questions and give advice whenever possible.
Except maybe Talbott.
Hi, Tim!
Hey there Craig,
I am getting a great deal from your website and greatly appreciate this latest post.
Best of luck with everything and thank you again.
Craig -
Jeez, I don’t know that guy but that’s great stuff. I wish I could remember or follow it myself.
well, i’m on the opposite side of webs. i think the forum has only been worth posting in since craig’s buddies showed up.
on the other hand, their showing up has lead to me posting more. so it’s a double edged sword.
but like craig said, you can always put me … uh, i mean, whoever you dislike, on ignore.
at least there’s some posts now and it seems like an actual, active board.
horses, courses, etc …
join the board today and the previous six posts are yours free (!!!) with many more like them, all free!
i knew that would happen.
seven. seven posts before mine.
i wouldn’t put it past the real talbott to pretend there was a fake talbott.
would you?
I’ve been reading your site for a while now and never even noticed there was a forum! It gets lost under the search box there. You should consider adding it to the nav on the left under “navigation” and maybe also to your top nav.
I have to echo the poster who said Turman’s advice was the most entertaining, practical, and motivating of anyone I’ve heard so far. He could charge for these posts. We’re a lucky crew.
Anonymous:
You’re probably right. I just have to figure out how to do that…
C.
any webmaster of average intelligence with enough time can figure out php for the benefit of their … what are we? viewers? participants? contributers?
aaaaaaaaand then there’s that link saying “ENTER THE FORUM” in orange, capital letters at the top of every page, above the list of previous posts, on the front of the site.
not mentioning the past posts (and the current one) about how there is a forum. and how it’s marked in capitals and orange letters at the top of the site.
dude … seriously …
aaaaaaand now craig’s removed all the posts between my posts which make my posts look weird.
… cool!
i’m just here talking to myself …
remember my name FAME!
I 2nd Anonymous’ comment on finding the forums.
When your link thingy was messed up, I didn’t know i could come to the main page and click ‘forums.’
… aaaaaaaand the person backing up the person who can’t find the forums is someone who posted the same post three times.
i don’t care if i look like a dick - there’s a pattern here.
c’mon.
Haha. Anyway, I never said I couldn’t FIND the forums. Once I knew to look for them I was able to root around for the link. “Orange, capital letters” don’t mean a whole lot though on a page filled with 90% text where every link is orange. I mean the date of the most recent post is larger and more prominent than the forum link.
It’s not a big deal but if Craig is trying to drive more traffic to the forum it might not hurt to give it a little more love on the homepage.
yeah, you defend yourself anyway you like, dude.
and hey, you’re right (in your own mind) - craig could give the forum more love than the aforementioned orange text and capital spelling of the forum at the top of every page of the site. that’s not enough. at all. it’s HIS fault you didn’t see that. yeah.
what a bastard he is for your lack of sight.
it’s his fault for not making it flash. in bright red, yellow and blue. obviously.
it’s certainly not YOUR fault that you’re so … well … craig would ban me if i said what you are. he’s polite like that.
unlike me.
“Once I knew to look for them I was able to root around for the link.”
so … you “rooted” around for the link that is in bright orange capital letters at the top of the front page of the site?
wow! congrats!
Tim:
Take it down. Craig agreed and said he’s going to work on it. People are just trying to help Craig drive traffic to the forum. I also had a hard time finding the forum at first.
Tim Woods,
Do you have a thick skin? I really hope so.
Tim, I think it’s actually a reasonable criticism. When this site was designed, I didn’t have a forum. I kludged the link in there, but it could be more prominent.
A random technical note for those of us using Safari— if the page is too narrow, the entire right column, including the link to the forum, disappears. I forgot it was there for a while. Which interferes with my evil plan to be banished from every screenwriting discussion board on the face of the earth.
Cheers!
Lorelei:
Right you are. You do have to make it pretty narrow, but that still definitely sucks.
I’ll talk to my web designer to see if there’s a fix for that. Thanks for the heads up.
Hmmm, Firefox too. Seems like once you clip the search box, the right column module goes buh-bye.
Josh O -
Thanks for the props. It’s appreciated. From your posts, and our history, I know you’re a tough audience.
Okay, the search box has been shortened up for you narrow-viewing folks, and there’s now a link to the forum in the navbar. Tell a friend.
Looks good. Not to beat a dead horse but I just realized that the almost violent difference of opinion here is a result of people using different browsers on different platforms. I just took a look at the site in Safari and “Enter the Forums” is larger, nicely separated from the search box by a line and therefore much easier to see. In Firefox the link buts right up against the search box — a subtle but key difference.
Anyway I’m glad I now know about the forums and thanks for the great site.
Geez, Craig, I thought the forum was a secret club with a secret handshake. Now you’ve opened the floodgates, who knows what will show up?
Did Turman complain that 4,491 views wasn’t enough love for him?
I have nothing to add.
Is John Turman related to Lawrence Turman (who wrote a very good book on producing, “So You Want to Be a Producer?)?
Yes, John is Larry’s son.
I just think it’s cool that, while Craig is certainly a mover and shaker as much as any of the pros are, here he is also the doting webmaster.
It’s neat.
This Turman guy has some pretty wacky ideas. I wonder if he’d rewrite my screenplays for me…
I think the TURMANATOR is awesome. Thanks John and Craig!
Great stuff, Turman. Thanks Craig…
Wow, Tim. Your aggressive response to a minor comment I made on John August’s site is tame compared to the level of hatred you seem to have for the people who couldn’t find the Forum link on this site. Have you ever thought about being nice to people? I wonder if this is how you act in real life…
tony -
i act EXACTLY the same in real life. i say EXACTLY the same words in real life. people who from the net who have never met me say “oooooh! you would never say that in real life!”
and then when they meet me in real life, they go “ohhhhh, i get it now.”
that’s the thing about the net. you read it in YOUR mind. not MY voice.
i have tried many times to be more net … acceptable? friendly? understandable? i dunno. but then i don’t sound like me.
so the trade off i make is: it’s just the net and i only really care about my work and people who know me.
so from that point of view, you don’t count. sounds rude and harsh, i know, but … well, like i said, that’s the net. you can’t see my face or listen to my voice whilst i say these things. and my extensive experience with net/real life stuff shows me that that makes a lot of difference.
i’ve met over 200 people off the net and only about two of them hate me. that’s actually not bad odds.
or you might just have pissed me off.
who knows?
LUV YA!
tim
(presuming i’m the tim tony is referring to. which i’m pretty sure i am)
btw
craig -
yeah, i know what you mean about it being a reasonable criticism, but this is my point of view:
you provide this site for us all, with a forum full of your pro mates, all for free.*
you have two kids, a wife and a career to be busy with.
i think people could take the time to take more than a cursory glance at the front page before they start up about stuff that’s going to take up even more of your time, when, frankly, it’s all there on the front page.
not to mention that they obviously haven’t read through the archives. yet want you to take time out to save them time.
people who don’t read archives but then talk about something is a bugbear of mine. hence the comments.
and this is the most suck uppy post of mine you’ll ever get! :P
*even when people (drunkenly) rampage through it between writing bouts.
I apologize profusely for not having read every archived article, forum post, witty user comment and copyright notice on the site. I now realize that every hour of the day that I waste on my own career, wife, and two-year-old daughter are a selfish affront to Craig’s hard work. From now on I vow to spend my days here soaking up every morsel of wisdom - finger poised on the refresh button - hoping that I too can one day become a Famous Hollywood Screenwriter.
good. i’ll let you off this time.
Tim Woods is clearly a man who wrote a hit play. No doubt about it.
boy did this series of comments completely diverge from the point
i once wrote a play that i hit. does that count?
divergence is the new originality. or something.
i agree with anonymous, would not have known what forum was without comment from craig. marking it more clearly i don’t think would help, already very clear. but the occasional reminder did the trick. thanks for the great site.