C'mon, AMPTP, No One's Buying This
On the AMPTP website, Nick Counter has a long statement that essentially boils down to this: if the WGA drops its DVD demands, they’re willing to talk turkey on internet download residuals.
“Great,” thought I.
And then I read this.
…no further movement is possible to close the gap between us so long as your DVD proposal remains on the table. In referring to DVDs, we include not only traditional DVDs, but also electronic sell-through — i.e., permanent downloads. As you know, we believe that electronic sell-through is synonymous with DVD.
Wha-huh???
Electronic sell-through is synonymous with DVD?
No.
DVD stands for Digital Video Disc (I think it was originally Digital Versatile Disc, but whatever).
That’s Digital Video Disc.
Disc.
You buy a DISC.
When you download a movie, you do not buy a disc.
You do not buy the package for the disc.
You do not pay for the manufacture of the disc.
Nor do you own a disc.
You buy digital information. Ones and zeroes.
Internet sell-through is NOT DVD, it is NOT home video, and if that’s the game the AMPTP is playing on internet downloads, this is going to get a whole lot worse before it gets better.
“As you know, we believe that electronic sell-through is synonymous with DVD.” This statement indicates to me that this little well-known fact has been discussed across the table.
God if only this were a lawsuit. Bullshit arguments like this could just be thrown out by the judge. And maybe earn the AMPTP some sanctions for arguing in bad faith.
It does sound like something to be weary of. But can this be considered an actual idea for a number in regards for percentages on the table for the new media deal where there was no number before?
NIKKI FINKE So… you’re saying… if she weighs the same as a duck… then she’s made of wood.
NICK COUNTER And therefore…
NIKKI FINKE A witch!
How can intelligent people sit at a table and not ask the question that Richard just posted? Give me a number that I can take back to my members. There is ALWAYS a number!
This is a disaster.
I’d just like to let you know that DeadlineHollywoodDaily.com has turned on the “comments” feature for strike-related stories starting tonight and continuing as needed.
Good grief. If that’s Counter’s version of what makes a DVD, I can’t see how a strike will be avoided.
Well, thanks for giving us the option. I know you’re busy killing the torture porn genre by yourself.
Yeah, I went there.
“…this is going to get a whole lot worse before it gets better.” - Craig Mazin And so, this is how it goes people. I’ve been down this road before. Craig is right. This is the s**t that precipitates the battle. I hope you all got the stomach for it.
Nick Counter makes a good point. Mr. Counter, if you’re reading, I’d like to address you directly for a moment, please. As you know, I view theatrical release to mean the same thing as home video, which is the same thing as DVD and that Internet thing. So we writers would actually like our residuals to equal our initial upfront payments. Thank you very much. To quote the venerable Mugatu, “Doesn’t anybody notice this? I feel like I’m taking crazy pills!”
Craig,
“Electronic sell-through is synonymous with DVD?”
This is a new turn, right? Or has the AMPTP always defined permanent downloads as DVD?
Yuck. I feel sick to my tummy. I actually defended those chicken-suckers and claimed they showed reason and wanted peace.
They want this strike and I bet you a ka-trillion dollars their predictions see a repeat of ‘88 (where time becomes our greatest enemy and their greatest ally).
And even with that, I still think you should re-title this post: STRIKE TO THE DEATH!
AYAAW
By the way, if they truly consider Internet downloads to be equivalent to DVD sales, I’m sure quite a few writers are going to be demanding their checks for product already sold.
AYAAW
This is my third comment, but I just can’t believe they said this. There is no way they were even trying to avoid a strike if this was their attitude. What have we said or done that ever implied we would let a statement like that fly? Yesterday I was anti-strike. Today I want to strike like a motherfucker.
The last twenty years have taught AMPTP it can pretty much do what it wants and dictate contract terms to the Guilds and unions. The last twenty years have taught AMPTP (here I go on “Foreign Levies again) that it can rip us off with impunity and without consequence.
It seems, give its history, that AMPTP has made a statement to the decision-makers of the large funds which hold their stocks: We will try to lock down the largest possible profit for the longest possible time.
In the process they have told the Writers Guild to strike, and told the federal mediator he is superfluous.
It will be up to the decision-makers who hold the largest shares of stocks to discipline the CEO’s of the media companies when this choice fails.
“As you know, we believe that electronic sell-through is synonymous with DVD.”
So what is he REALLY saying?
That they’re willing to committ to 1.2 % on New Media?
If so, how about a step-increase? Start on 1.2 pecrent, then go to, say, 3 percent over 5 years.
A strike is now pretty certain to happen. It appears to me that the Mediator didn’t ask for the “cooling off” period, and this is the result.
I don’t believe we will see actual pickets begin before Monday. But if the WGA members are angry enough, they might start right away on Friday morning.
But remember what I posted before. If you’re really serious about picketing a studio, a 9A-1P schedule will not affect anything. The ONLY way to affect a studio with a picket, IMO, would be to cover EVERY gate with a 6A-6P picket. I have now seen evidence that the studios are trying to redirect their drivers and crews to go in through alternate gates to avoid the picket lines. Again, if you want your picket to succeed, you must cover every entrance, or you will watch the crews and materials make their usual entrances and exits.
Now you’re getting it, Craig.
You all got blood in your eyes! Whipping yourselves into a frenzy. It always happens this way. History repeats itself. I’m tellin’ ya that this won’t end good.
Looks like Patric wasn’t the one hell bent on a strike.
If the Alliance were in any way interested in driving a wedge between the Guild leadership and the membership, and were competent at pursing that aim, they would’ve issued a press release declaring that the talks have reached an impasse because Guild negotiators refuse to budge on, say, product integration. Craig, and those who agree with him, would’ve screamed holy terror and called Patric (for the millionth time) a crazy firebrand who came out of his whore mother’s womb 48 years ago dreaming of the day he could drag the Guild kicking and screaming into a strike. The wedge would’ve been three-quarters driven by Saturday.
The fact that the Alliance has, instead, told us that the impasse is a result of the Guild leadership’s refusal to accept the DVD formula’s application to new media has done the exact opposite of driving said wedge. Heck, Craig Mazin’s prolly on his way to Patric’s house right now to give Patric a back rub and mix him a margarita. So either the Alliance has no interest in driving a wedge between Guild leadership and the members, or they’re really really bad at it.
See y’all on the picket lines, folks.
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
Do you hear/see the AMPTP rallying? No, baby. They’re writing this scenario and you guys are just players in their business plan.
That’s just crazy.
Okay, so we agree that internet downloads should be compensated (but obviously NOT because they’re synonomous with DVDs). We do not agree that the implied rate of compensation (the “synonomous with DVD” rate I presume?) is appropriate compensation.
Oy.
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA - please stop doing that. Just stop. Please.
Oh, and strike captains are supposed to tell writers to pack up their desks tomorrow if they work on a lot.
The strike has started.
Peronally, I think the AMPTP is right on this one. Ultimately, delivery media doesn’t matter, especially since physical media is likely to disappear in the next decade or two. The issue is adequate compensation for use of intellectual property HOWEVER it’s delivered. On disc, via download, whatever. It’s time to reframe the debate from media to price per click. Period. And the current rate is just not fair.
And now the Studios get what they wanted all along. A work stoppage and the opportunity to invoke force majeure so they can slash overhead.
This really sucks.
Does anyone have a ballpark figure on how much the WGA is asking on internet residuals at this time? Has a number even been floated?
Make certain you all have good walking shoes…it’s important.
Anon 20,
You’re right, but what’s your point? If it’s we shouldn’t be angry, we shouldn’t strike, please enlighten us to the alternatives?
The AMPTP has given us few. They are telling us explicitly to strike or cave. But if you see something I don’t, please point it out. I’m serious.
The frustrating reality is the AMPTP has pinned us against a wall with little wiggle room and they’re asking us to choose: Them or Us. I choose Us. But if there’s room, I’ll wiggle. Show me the way and I will follow. And if you can’t, I suggest you avert your sensitive eyes for blood will flow.
Look at history #29. Take a look at 1988 and the SAG strike of 1981. Most of you are too damn young to know how we got where we are. You won’t win this battle. Demand that your negotiators/membership ask for reasonable figures. You can’t fkg win a battle again conglomerates. They’re not trying to starve you, but they won’t give up the store. Settle and thrive.
Patrick,
I finally think we’re on the same side, but doesn’t it make you a little sick the AMPTP wanted it that way.
I live in Canada, so I’m going to picket at my local blockbuster. If any one wants to join me…
The WGA has a contract proposal chart on their website which summarizes proposals against current practice. See: http://www.wga.org/contract_07/proposalsfull2.pdf
The second item, “Non-Traditional Media Residuals” states that the current practice is that studios are “paying the 0.3% home video residual when the viewer pays” and it reads like this arises from outstanding claims against the studios.
So, DVD = downloads is not a new position that the Companies just invented today.
I went to the WGA website because it’s difficult to get a sense otherwise of who wants what. It’s puzzling that the details are still so obscure.
Captain Ellen:
No, I’m not getting it now.
I’ve been getting it for years now. Please don’t mistake me for a Kool-Aid drinker simply because I’m a rational human being who knows a shit sandwich when he sees one.
Maybe you’re getting it now. Maybe you’re getting that my criticism of the way Guild leadership has handled a number of issues doesn’t mean I can’t also see the bad the other side commits. I don’t have to blindly believe either side’s spin, do I?
I’ve been involved in Guild service for over three years, I’ve studied the issues, and no matter how much anyone wants to claim me at any given point, I’m not a ditto-head.
Or, as the Soviets would call them…”useful idiots.”
RE #22
Thinking about this a little more— what could the AMPTP be thinking by issuing such an inflammatory statement the night the contract is up? What kind of strategy is it to unite the writers like that?
The meeting tomorrow could have been incredibly divisive— hawks arguing for the necessity of a strike and accusing anyone who disagrees with being “on the other side”, etc. Then you’d have the old-timers who survived previous strikes at the microphones warning us that war is hell and last time careers ended and people lost their houses, etc.
We’re gonna see a lot of emotion on both sides regardless, but somehow I suspect Counter just united the wide majority of the guild.
The question is— why?
Either it was a major strategic fuck up on their part (rally and unite the guild rather than divide/scare them) or they really really want the strike and have already calculated that they would win it.
Which is it?
AYAAW
“Demand that your negotiators/membership ask for reasonable figures… Settle and thrive.”
30, the Alliance has just declared that they’re not willing to give us anything on new media, no matter how “reasonable” the “figures” we may present. They’re willing, only, to give us the DVD formula on new media, which is to say, they’re willing to give us nothing.The Alliance hasn’t shut down conversation on this topic because the Guild is asking for un-“reasonable figures.” The Alliance has shut down conversation on this topic because the Guild is asking for anything greater than zero.
At the moment, the only way to “settle and thrive” is to accept, essentially, zippo in the way of residuals for new media usage. Is that what you suggest we accept?
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
So what 9 issues did the WGA take off the table?
That sounds fairly significant — for the AMPTP to say that the DVD/New Media demands are a large gap in the negotiations sounds somewhat disingenuous.
But I admit to being on the outside looking in on this…
“At the moment, the only way to “settle and thrive” is to accept, essentially, zippo in the way of residuals for new media usage. Is that what you suggest we accept?
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA”
What’s it like to live in such a starkly black and white world?
I like to dwell in the gray tones. - a seemingly endless variety of solutions.
Anon 30,
I’ve been a critic of the WGA since I started posting on this site, but that’s when the AMPTP appeared reasonable.
I hate cocksure bullies telling me what I can and cannot do. The AMPTP is a cocksure bully and if it takes my death to prove them wrong… well, that’s what I’m willing to do.
But you’re right. A lot of us, who are seeing red, will be committing seppuku for a regime, the WGA, that is potentially not willing to do the same for us (which is definitely represented in history).
It’s a tough issue. I thank you for your kind response.
Not that I want anyone to lose their job, but I’d be happy to write scripts for 5 grand and some White Castle.
I’m kidding… I think. Let me check my bank account. Nope, not kidding.
Good luck.
Any argument that suggest that a group of some of the most powerful and influential corporations in the history of the world doesn’t know EXACTLY what it’s doing in these crucial business negotiations is dangerous.
Don’t understate the enemy. This isn’t their first barbeque, as they say.
Rather than address my question with philosophical bullcrap, you could try addressing it with an answer.
To repeat: do you suggest that the writers accept the Alliance’s offer of, essentially, ZERO remuneration for online reuse of Guild-written programming?
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
Wannabe - and that would be why you’re a wannabe. Actually, I assume you’re kidding.
Pepe: You may be right. However, mistakes can also be made by powerful corporations and captains of industry. They’re not idiotproof outfits. See Enron.
AYAAW,
The AMPTP is saying, “Go ahead, sucka, make our day.”
That’s why this is so fucked. They’re taking credit for any which way we move. It’s the trick of all great bullies, “Punch me. I’ll give you one shot.”
SML-
So you’re saying they’ve already run the numbers and calculated that they would win a strike big time and are just provoking it.
Depressing. I was about to invoke Masada, as an inspiring analogy, but that probably isn’t the best idea, given the ending.
I need a drink.
AYAAW
R,
thanks for putting the WGA proposals up: http://www.wga.org/contract_07/proposalsfull2.pdf.
Now, does anyone have a comprehensive version of the Company’s proposals?
Craig, if you have this, is there anyway you can put them side-by-side on a webpage so we can see the major issues on one page?
JP
Craig,
Does this position (by the AMPTP) mean war with SAG too?
I don’t get it. They’ve basically taken a stance that’s gonna galvanize all WGAers.
JP-
One way to do it might be to set up a spreadsheet or word processor document on docs.google.com, turn public collaboration on, and let the community create it.
A better way might be to create a wikipedia page on the Hollywood Negotiations of ‘07 (or maybe under WGA or something), start up a table, and again let the Internet take care of the rest :)
It would be a nice resource if it could be updated in real time as changes to the terms of the negotiations become public.
AYAAW
You can access the 10/25 package PDF here: http://amptp.org/negs.html
…but it’s not a neatly summarized chart, it’s 20 pages with little white space.
(#37) To repeat: do you suggest that the writers accept the Alliance’s offer of, essentially, ZERO remuneration for online reuse of Guild-written programming?
Patrick, excuse me if I’m just being dense, but are you suggesting that the Alliance is actually offering nothing for online use? My understanding is that they’re equating downloads with DVDs, which would pay at the same .3% - which I agree is a relative pittance. I assume you’re meaning “zero gains” in remuneration, but I just want to be clear on this.
“The AMPTP is saying, “Go ahead, sucka, make our day.””
Yeah, that’s what they’re saying, isn’t it.
It’s a BLUFF.
Does anybody really believe the companies are willing to risk the consequences of a strike because tv sucks this season?
C’mon…
“It’s a BLUFF.”
Are there any reasonable minded persons in Los Angeles county that aren’t certain, right now, that the WGA is going to strike?
Are you suggesting the AMPTP thinks the WGA ISN’T going to strike over this?
That they think the WGA will wilt at their machismo and intestinal fortitude and give in to all the demands?
Again, it’s really dangerous to assume that the AMPTP isn’t as smart or smarter than the WGA. That’s how battles are lost. Hubris.
http://amptp.org/files/comprehensive102507.pdf
If you’re pressed for time, read page 10, items 11 (B) and (C)
They never moved from those positions, then?
No, I’m calling the .3% DVD residual rate “essentially, ZERO.” It is worse than a “relative pittance,” it is a statistically-insignificant blip that is, essentially, zero.
If any fellow WGA member on this board thinks we should accept that as our residual rate on all new media, forevermore, go ahead and say so, but I sure don’t think we should. And, in true lion-laying-down-with-lamb fashion, neither does Patric Verrone, and neither does Craig Mazin.
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
“The point is, ladies and gentlemen, that greed—for lack of a better word—is good. Greed is right. Greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed, in all of its forms—greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge—has marked the upward surge of mankind. And greed—you mark my words—will not only save Teldar Paper, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the USA.” -Gordon Gekko, Wall Street (1987) Written by Stanley Weiser and Oliver Stone
Anonymous of Post #1:
It was their position in 2001, when the “Sideletter on Exhibition of Motion Pictures Transmitted via the Internet” was negotiated (a rate was agreed upon for internet download/rentals; the AMPTP and the Guild agreed the basis of payment for all other exhibitions would be determined at a later date).
It was Disney’s position when they began selling movies through iTunes. They wanted to pool the iTunes receipts with DVD receipts and pay residuals on the lump sum at the DVD rate.
It was the position the AMPTP took in the “Limited Proposal” they put on the table the first day of negotiations: “The Companies agree that … they will continue to make payment for electronic sell-through of theatrical and television motion pictures based upon the videodisc/videocassette formula as set forth in Article 51.C.1.b. of the MBA and shall continue to make payment pursuant to the terms of the “Sideletter on Exhibition of Motion Pictures Transmitted via the Internet” for exhibition covered thereunder.”
It was the position they took in the “Comprehensive Proposal” they put on the table last Thursday: “Confirm that electronic sell-throughs for permanent downloads of theatrical or television motion pictures (when all or substantially all of the picture is included) are paid at the home video/DVD formula.”
anon lawyer of post #2:
There is a lawsuit; the AMPTP and the Guild are in binding arbitration in relation to the AMPTP’s interpretation of the “Sideletter on Exhibition of Motion Pictures Transmitted via the Internet” as requiring payment on electronic sell-thru at the DVD rate.
Richard:
The “Limited Proposal” that included the “New Media Study” included a number. The AMPTP removed that proposal from the table on the second or third day of negotiations, leaving only the “Comprehensive (ie “all rollbacks, all the time) Study.” When they removed that proposal and replaced it with the second “Comprehensive Proposal,” that proposal included the number.
Anonymous of post #5:
The Guild’s position was that the AMPTP’s proposal for the “New Media Study” was a way of stalling for three years “while in the meantime the Companies pay nothing.”
Based on Counter’s statement, I wouldn’t be surprised if we woke up tomorrow morning to a lockout.
“you suggesting the AMPTP thinks the WGA ISN’T going to strike over this?”
No, I’m suggesting the “fine, strike, tv sucks and we can save some bucks” attitude is a bluff.
They want to see a strike start to test how tough the wga members (members - not leadership!!) really stand.
Up to the writers to show what they’re made of.
Pepe:
Back in 2001 and 2004, the Guild’s position on download/sales (ie, “electronic sell-thru”) was that the residual rate should be the same as that for download/rentals: 1.2% of 100% of licensing fee paid to the production company.
In the 2007 pattern of demands, the Guild’s position was that the residual rate for internet, including download/rentals, should be 2.5% of 100% of licensing fee paid to the production company.
I think the way to look at this is that AMPTP has finally shown us their hand — They don’t want to give us nothing on downloads, they just want to give us the same crappy deal we got on DVD.
Craig is right, downloads and DVD absolutely should not be tied together. Downloads are cheaper to put out, thus more profit, thus we should get a little of the cream. That’s what’s fair.
The smart play for WGA is now to pull the doubling of DVD off the table. It’s a poor fight to pick anyway, as DVD is going to be a smaller and smaller portion of revenue in the future.
Also, by pulling the DVD doubling off the table, we bring the focus to downloads, and get credit for making a big concession just as we move to the real issue.
AMPTP knows that downloads are going to be the lion’s share of revenue in the near future. They’ve been playing to it from day one. We have the opportunity to put them on the wrong foot just as that issue comes into sharp focus.
The beauty of this is if we gain ground on downloads we actually win both fights, because the subtext of what AMPTP is saying is correct. DVD and downloads are the same thing - because downloads are about to eat DVD.
Pepe @40
Any argument that suggest that a group of some of the most powerful and influential corporations in the history of the world doesn’t know EXACTLY what it’s doing in these crucial business negotiations is dangerous.
DivX, Vista, Sony Rootkits, Playstation 3, amphibious M2 Bradleys, all American auto manufacturers, ENRON, …
Everyone makes colossal fuckups and God knows how many smaller ones.
Craig…
I just wanted to take this opportunity to apologize to you for comments I made a couple of threads back. I came to this blog after reading Nick Counter’s quote re: your complaints about the strike vote; and I wrongly assumed you were a company shill and said as much.
I respect Patric and the other board members. I know how hard they have worked to avoid a strike. But I’ve also come to see that you offer valuable insight and a great place for open debate.
Thanks for this blog. I have no idea how you keep this up, in addition to directing your first feature. Clearly, you’re doing something right.
Best of luck to us all.
Uh, marginallyemployed, would it be fair to summarize your post as “Hey, I have an idea! Let’s take DVD off the table and focus on downloads! Wouldn’t that be great?”?
That’s all you basically proposed right?
Because like, A. that’s been said plenty on this site, and B. DVDs are still growing as of 2006 and as of June 2006 represent “more than half of the revenue studios generate from most of their movies.” (NYTimes story. Click it.) It may be increasing less than before, hell- even shrinking, but we’re not talking negligible chump change.
Just sayin’.
AYAAW AYAAW
Pepe @51
Again, it’s really dangerous to assume that the AMPTP isn’t as smart or smarter than the WGA. That’s how battles are lost. Hubris.
But wars are lost by inaction through overestimating the enemy. In the Civil War Gen. George McClellan sat for months asking constantly for more troops, which gave Lee time to prepare his defenses. It was Grant’s aggressiveness out west and willingness to press the attack that finally gave the North the initiative.
[i]”Look at history #29. Take a look at 1988 and the SAG strike of 1981. Most of you are too damn young to know how we got where we are. You won�t win this battle. Demand that your negotiators/membership ask for reasonable figures. You can�t fkg win a battle again conglomerates. They�re not trying to starve you, but they won�t give up the store. Settle and thrive.”[/i]
Hmm, something about the pronoun usage makes me itch.
There is no settle and thrive option. There is settle and shrivel. Not loving that idea.
There’s an 82 y.o. man on my strike team and he does remember all the strikes. He told me, “Get it right this time. If you don’t get this DVD and internet thing now, you never will.” This is someone who knows the history of the town and has nothing at stake anymore. And while he can no longer walk, he is willing to man a phone bank.
And Craig, take it easy. A) My name’s not Ellen and B) we’re not on opposite sides of this thing. I’m a very successful writer with 15 years in the guild. I’m no Kool-Aid drinker or shit sandwich sampler either.
Oh, and as for Internet downloads being the next big thing. Yeah, eventually. Cable-on-demand aside, as of Q1 2006, only 48 million Americans subscribe to broadband. That’s a country with ~300 million (legal) people. Varying countries around the world have different Internet penetration, but I think it’s safe to say that DVDs have some life still in them and the WGA contract will expire and be renewed many many times (fingers crossed) before DVDs are completely irrelevant. Also don’t forget that two new high-def DVD formats (HD-DVD and BlueRay) are JUST now being introduced and can be produced for the same cost as traditional DVD.
Steven @60: DivX. Hah.
AYAAW
No surprise Dave McNary has done yet ANOTHER subjective/misleading pro-studio write-up masquerading as journalism for Variety. Shame on Peter Bart for letting such half-baked coverage run.
Advised 50,
“Does anybody really believe the companies are willing to risk the consequences of a strike because tv sucks this season?”
Of course not. They’re wiling to risk a strike to force us into applying the current home video formula to New Media.
AYAAW 65,
48 million households is not the same as 48 million people. Many households have more than one person in them, all sharing the broadband connection. Mine has 5. The subscription’s only in my name, so in that sense, only one of us “subscribes to broadband.” But all five of us use it more or less daily.
48 million subscribers getting billed for broadband indicates a base of broadband users that is a much larger fraction of our 300-million-ish population than you’re assuming.
Patrick Meighan, overly proud resident of Culver City wrote:
Lemme guess.
You don’t write movies.
The DVD rate should be better. On the other hand, that formula that you call a “statistically insignificant blip” has garnered me well into the mid six figures for just one movie…and I was splitting the residuals on that with another writer.
You’re beyond overstating here. You’re flat out misrepresenting the truth.
Point-anything of home video will get you money. Often a lot of money. The question is whether it’s a fair share of the massive amount of money the studios gross through home video.
Where does Blue Ray and HD DVD fit in? Are they accepted as being part of the definition of DVD’s? How about any future system?
Steven,
I’m certainly not arguing for inaction. I’m only saying that if the WGA membership thinks that they’re going to surprise the Studios with a strike and the Studios are going to simply relent because they were not prepared for a strike, then you’re living in dreamland.
The studios are creating the strike. They could avoid it by offering some BS concessions and drag this thing out for weeks, months, maybe even to the first of the year. It’s painfully obvious to me that the AMPTP has no interest in avoiding this strike. They are fostering the strike.
Re: DVD dough….
I wrote an entire season’s worth of episodes for a top ten show that was hugely successful on DVD. Yet I couldn’t make one mortgage payment with all the DVD money I’ve made. The DVD formula is worse than mediocre — it’s an outrage.
:)
Okay, I’m getting seriously confused.
If Counter is saying DVDs are downloads, is he saying the AMPTP is offering the .3 percent on the downloads? They want to lump things togetherm but not double the rate? So he’s trying to force the WGA to combine their demand?
That sounds like wiggle room to negotiate, but I must be missing something.
If only. I guess I shoulda said, but that mortgage payment is mid-4 figures. Nothing crazy.
I know there’s a lot of negativity about the press’s angle on the strike, but this one, which was on the Yahoo homepage, was pretty good. http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071101/medianm/screenwriterstalks_dc
Contract Capt. 72,
It is an outrage. I’m with you.
But what you’re forgetting is that WE, the WGA, accepted those terms.
And that was the mistake WE made twenty years ago. If WE don’t get over OUR mistake and stop blaming the AMPTP for OUR mistake, WE’RE going to make the same mistake again.
And the longer we delay, the longer we get caught up in the AMPTP’s game, the more likely WE are to make that mistake… again.
You see. DVD resids is a battle lost. WE LOST IT. They won. We need to stop being sore about it and move on.
However, separating the home video formula from electronic sell through is a battle worth fighting. If we can separate these two issues, we can start focusing on the meat of the problem (1.2 or 2.5 of 100).
Time is on the AMPTP’s side. 500 million was lost in ’88, but how much was gained by the AMPTP waiting us out?
We need to be efficient and on point or all is lost. We don’t have the time or resources to deal with old issues.
Contract Cap’n:
Yeah, television writers split their DVD residuals with the other writers on staff.
But screenwriters only share them with other credited screenwriters.
And movies still account for the lion’s share of DVDs sold.
So you can call the formula an outrage all you want, but it’s not an outrage.
Nothing that puts a six figure check in my hand is an “outrage.” If you want an outrage, take a look at the working conditions of reality television employees.
Or miners.
The DVD formula is unfair. That should be enough.
Hyperbole delegitimizes.
“Lemme guess. You don’t write movies. The DVD rate should be better. On the other hand, that formula that you call a “statistically insignificant blip” has garnered me well into the mid six figures for just one movie…and I was splitting the residuals on that with another writer. You’re beyond overstating here. You’re flat out misrepresenting the truth.”
Craig,
No, I don’t write movies. I write for “Family Guy.” The DVD sales alone for that show have made Fox more than a hundred million dollars so far… probably much more than a hundred million dollars. I’m the credited writer for four of the 75-or-so episodes released, so far, on DVD (which, again, to repeat, have resulted in more than a hundred million in gross revenue for Fox, just in DVD sales alone). And, for DVD residuals, I, personally, have been paid, maybe, a few hundred bucks. Maybe.
It is not a misrepresentation of the truth, Craig, to call that a statistically insignificant blip.
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
Craig/Ted (Craed?), can you shed any light on what the “downloads=DVDs” proposal would mean for TV writers vs. feature writers? My network overlords seem to be operating under the assumption that TV is going to go to a mostly-download delivery system a lot faster than features, but they’re old and crazy, so who knows.
Thanks for the updates.
Patrick and Craig,
You’re saying the same thing. You’re fighting over semantics.
Craig,
To Patrick resids are insignificant.
Patrick,
To Craig resids are unfair.
End o’ story.
(Now both of you are going to gang up on me like I’m mediator Gonzalez aren’t you… just as long as there’s peace…)
Why is it, Craig, that I am capable of empathizing with the issues that affect screenwriters that may not mean much to my work or wallet, but you can’t do the same? Because the DVD formula works for you as a screenwriter, it’s fine and I’m being scolded for characterizing it as an outrage? Who knows, maybe if I was holding a 6 figure DVD check for a screenplay I didn’t even write by myself, I’d feel okay about it all and maybe even think…. “fuck all you TV writers.”
It needs to be changed. Just ‘cause it works for you, doesn’t mean it works for most of us.
Patrick (79),
I’d be surprised if 4/75 of any percentage we were likely to get—even in a best case scenario—turned out to be anything but a fairly insignificant blip.
The fact that the show as a whole, with multiple seasons available for sale (separately, I’m assuming), has made a hundred millions dollars in aggregate doesn’t seem to imply in itself that you, as the author of a tiny fraction of the content that earned that money, should be seeing huge paychecks from it. (And please note, I’m not saying they shouldn’t be reasonable paychecks paid at a reasonable rate—I just wouldn’t expect them to be enormous, with so many other writers’ fingers in the same pie.)
Disclaimer: I don’t know how the take for these TV box sets is divvied up among all the contributing writers, so I’ll be the first to admit that there may be some salient fact I’m overlooking here. My guess was that (total amount of residuals paid out for box set X) / (number of episodes included in box set X) would be paid to the writer of each episode in the set. Is that in the ballpark of reality? Does the writing staff as a whole get any cut, or does it all go to the credited writer?
SML:
Residuals are unfair. This is arguable, but it’s my opinion.
Residuals are not insignificant. That’s not arguable. It’s fact.
C-Cap’n:
Just trying to educate my TV brethren so they don’t sound like yokels when they’re talking to a room full of screenwriters. You know, in case they’re Strike Captains or something.
But Craig, by the same token, I’d argue that your experience with DVD residuals could be considered a statistically insignificant blip. Your experience sounds like a wonderful one to have had, and I’ll certainly be delighted if I ever join that club, but it’s in no way reflective of the experience of the vast majority of Guild members—some of whom would consider it an unusual stroke of good fortune to get a five-figure check out of this formula.
I’m not a “bitch about the rich guys” type, either—I’m glad the industry is producing some, and hope to see it produce more in the future—but you must admit, you’re kind of a bad example. It’s like Einstein saying a math test wasn’t that hard, you know? Doesn’t mean much either way for everybody else who took it…
“Residuals are not insignificant. That’s not arguable. It’s fact.”
Is it a new rule of logic (or alchemy, or something) that declaring one’s opinion to be inarguable fact makes it so?
Craig, I encourage you to poll Guild membership as to whether, under the current MBA, they find DVD residual payments to be significant. I’ll bet you you’ll find a very hefty majority of Guild members magically, mysteriously disagreeing with your cold hard “fact”. Nick Counter will certainly agree with you, however, which I imagine will give you some great comfort.
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
Patrick:
Writers earned over $264 million in residuals in 2006.
You don’t need a poll, dude.
That’s more than a quarter of a billion dollars in residuals in twelve months’ time, and a massive chunk of that quarter of a billion dollars comes from home video residuals.
Like I said…the rate is unfair. But it’s not insignificant or essentially zero as you suggest.
Quarter of a billion, okay?
Is that enough of a fact?
Can we now agree that our residual rates aren’t insignificant?
Or do we have to hit a trillion before you dare question our Glorious Leader?
You can imagine me spooning Nick Counter in bed if you want. I don’t care. I pay my dues every quarter, and I serve my union and follow its rules. I just don’t toe the party line at the cost of rationality and common sense.
If that doesn’t meet your test of loyalty, then go ahead and toss out any insinuation you’d like.
But you’ll still be wrong.
Factually.
Craig,
Wouldn’t you say that $100 in residuals for just (I’m guessing) over 90 pages of writing is insignificant compared to your 6 figures in residuals for a similar amount pages (potentially less since you are co-credited)?
Wouldn’t you say that your six figures is an insignificant sum compared to the 9+ figures your series has generated? No you would say it’s unfair. Got me there.
Is 25 cents insignificant compared to 400 dollars? I would say it is and you would say it was unfair…
Insignificant has multiple definitions. You believe the word to mean: meaningless. Patrick believes the word to mean: too small to be worth consideration.
Semantics. Not fact.
And, yes, I am arguing for argument’s sake.
Oh, and as Kimya Dawson sings:
We all become important when we realize our goal Should be to figure out our role within the context of the whole And yeah, rock and roll is fun, but if you ever hear someone Say you are huge, look at the moon, look at the stars, look at the sun Look at the ocean and the desert and the mountains and the sky
Say I am just a speck of dust inside a giant’s eye
Dear Patrick Meighan:
The revenue I got as a producer of “Sledge Hammer1” was hugely significant on DVD. I never even bothered to cash the checks I was sent as a writer of individual episodes, as they amounted to only a few dollars.
The DVDs of “Family Guy” sold well enough to literally revive the series in primetime. Those season sets sold significantly more than most popular comedy feature films and the episodes are currently garnering strong ratings in syndication.
You’re a talented guy and are due.
Your residuals stat is accurate, but you are not naming just how much that “DVD chunk” is. I think “massive” is probably massively overstating things. I would love for you to provide a number.
Under the current DVD formula, a writer receives four cents for every $15 DVD sold. How many DVDs do you have to sell to make 6 figures? 10 million units? We better write nothing but blockbusters.
Contract Cap’n:
You’re a phone call away from finding out. Ask the Guild.
BTW, three years ago, they kept telling me a writer received a nickel for every DVD sold. Now it’s four cents? I suppose next week it will be one penny and a kick in the balls.
Craig, it’s a percentage so yeah, it’s possible to make a penny. The more the DVD costs, the more the writer makes. ;)
A general note:
Residuals are a collective right. Breaking it down to payments received per individual is an excellent way to frame our argument for increasing the rate, but increasing the rate that residuals are paid at collectively does not translate to a raise for all writers individually.
There are many Guild members who do exactly the same work under the MBA as any other Guild member who don’t receive any residual income at all. There are other Guild members who, again, do exactly the same work under the MBA as any other Guild member, who receive substantially more residual income than other Guild members.
The issue here isn’t, “I want to be paid more money in residuals” or “I am content with the amount of money I get in residuals.”
The issue, “Do current residual rates represent adequate compensation for the exploitation of the work created by Guild members collectively?”
I say “No.” I say, the fundemental principle at work here is, Guld members collectively should be seeing economic benefit from every exploitation of our work.
But I also say, compensation is not the only possible form of economic benefit. And economic benefits are not the only kind of rights to which Guild members collectively are entitled, but have been denied by work-made-for-hire law.
And that is what MBA negotiations are about. Not, getting a raise for this individual writer or that individual writer, But, protecting and advancing the collective rights of all writers.
The practical question here is: what is the endgame? How can we anticipate how this will all shake out? It is very clear the writers are going to go out for a good long stretch. It seems that staying out until sweeps will be necessary to see if there is any crack of light in the door. We have to depend on the individual players/entities turning on each other - someone like Katzenberg getting the upper hand and internally arguing for movement on downloads. The 3 or 4 month mark seems like when we will have caused maximum damage to them without being quite ready to fold ourselves. The leadership’s preparation for this confrontation has been impeccable and superb. But one suspects a real danger of them missing the right moment to not let the perfect be the enemy of the good. A moment will come where they must bite the bullet and wrangle the best deal possible out of these guys. The moment is not now, for sure - the AMPTP hasn’t begun to consider the possibility of concessions yet. But they may after 4 mos if Counter gets fired and/or the moderates gain influence inside the decision making group. Then a window will open and we have to jump through it - fast. Because you can’t ask people to not pay mortgages forever. That is not going to happen. And if the Guild strikes too far past the 3 or 4 month mark time becomes the friend of the studios.
Patrick,
With regards to your residuals on Family Guy, it sounds like a bum deal for you. But won’t it still be a bum deal if the WGA get their demands? You made a couple hundred dollars of residuals, and that would go up to several hundred dollars of residuals. Wouldn’t that still count as “insignificant” to you?
It sounds like you aren’t getting much money as residuals because a boxed set of 74 episodes will never make a lot of residuals for a person who wrote 4 episodes (5% of the content). Even if you weren’t calculating residuals on a royalty basis, and were at source.
Then again, look on the bright side. If a feature screenwriter contributed 5% of the content of a movie released on DVD they wouldn’t get any residuals or any credit at all.
“Writers earned over $264 million in residuals in 2006… That�s more than a quarter of a billion dollars in residuals in twelve months� time, and a massive chunk of that quarter of a billion dollars comes from home video residuals.”
Craig,
The part of the above declaration where you say “a massive chunk”? Those are called “weasel words”… a generalization by means of a grammatical quantifier, to try and purport something beyond the proof of the actual information you present.
You’re better than that, Craig. No one is disputing that residuals are a significant source of revenue. Several of us, however, are disputing your unsupported assertion (presented, by you, as undeniable, unassailable “fact”) that DVD residuals are a significant source of revenue. If you want to prove that your assertion is correct, why don’t you try presenting a piece of data that does so? ‘Cause, so far, all you’ve done is given us is a piece of data that doesn’t, and lashed it to your as-yet-unsupported assertion with weasel words in hopes that no one would notice, and then wrapped it all up with the crap-tastic bow that is the declaration that your glorious opinion is not opinion, but, instead, rock-solid, unquestionable fact.
Feh.
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
Patrick:
I already did.
I told you that I personally received six figure checks for residuals.
Residual checks list the source.
Mine said “home video.”
Now…I know what my movie made.
And I’m one guy.
So if I multiply that by two (because I was splitting those residuals), then multiply that by the ratio of DVD’s my movie sold against all movies being sold…
…I come up with a massive chunk relative to the total quarter billion we’re discussing.
It’s like you just don’t want to believe that home video contributes a lot, because you want it to contribute more.
But one can hold both thoughts in one’s head at the same time.
Still, if you’d like to settle this particular debate, call the Guild and ask them.