Have You Emailed Me?

My contribution to the cause.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rkFvf2ZTy0

Looks like everyone is plum tuckered out.

Makes sense…everything has been said. I just don’t know what I’m going to do at work now. I aint got no work to do.

Stooge

Something tells me that this strike might be over due to the negotiations coming up.

So…the truce is over!!

Suck it, Josh!

If the serious stuff is all said, howabout some fun?

Which studio picket line has/had the most fun? Let’s lighten it up with some good stories from the line.

Looks like the old thread picked up again. Josh is over there causing a raucus. He really hates Craig and Ted. It’s unreal.

Someone go give Josh a hug.

Stooge

Just got back from the rally. It was really something to behold. Let’s see how much makes the news…

Hey, Craig, here’s a tidbit for you, and it’s not from an unattributed source. I was actually there today.

A lot of speakers today, a lot of cheers. Hands down, the loudest cheer from the crowd came when the head of the Teamsters said that we were a militant union. The crowd went apeshit - it felt like an earthquake had hit.

Now, I know that that doesn’t jibe with the picture you’d like to paint, but it do have the advantage of being true. So, you know, maybe you could run a story that’s not only true, but actually supports the strike for a change.

Just sayin’.

Stooge,

I thought you’d been outed already, dude.

Seriously, congrats on the charade. It’s pretty astounding that this one has lasted as long as it has. Goes to the general level of idiocy one finds here, I guess…..

Having just returned from the Hollywood Blvd. rally I felt compelled to make two comments.

Unfortunately the turnout was not nearly as high as I would have imagined. Either people really are getting burned out on the front lines (a bad bellwether of months to come if this drags on longer) or the optimism of renewed talks is dangerously impeding the need to stay on track and focused. There is no deal yet. Let’s not assume its on the immediate horizon.

Another possibility is that the various unions who have pledged solidarity are not willing to put their support into demonstrative action. I’m sure the national news will highlight today’s rally and the numbers they report will seem less than impressive. Hopefully there was a concerted effort to reach out to IATSE, DGA and SAG to make a showing. If not, we can only blame ourselves.

Second - something that has bothered me for awhile from the various notes of people continuing to work who claim not to have crossed a picket line that I feel needs to be addressed. Yes, it may be true, you have been on location or gotten to the lot before the strikers show or after they leave. However don’t delude yourselves into thinking that there aren’t many of your co-workers who have had to cross the line many times throughout the day in order to keep your show running. From assistants to caterers to costumers and set decorators, these people race all over town and have to go onto studio lots to get the various wares which keep your production afloat. They are constantly going in and out of your strike-free safe haven at all hours of the day (not just before 6 a.m. or after 5 p.m.). And if they were to honor the picket lines, your shoot would simply be unable to function (no props, sets, food or costumes). If you are asking them to provide these things for you then you too are not respecting the picket line.

Just because certain crew (above or below) have been spared the crossing-the-picket line dilema - don’t believe for a second that your entire production is getting away clean. This ‘not in my backyard’ mentality is a little narrow minded for my tastes.

Ninja is wrong about one thing, the Lollipop Guild is helping out.

Eric:

There is a third option, which is that it’s Thanksgiving week and people went home to be with family.

On the whole, I agree with you that the pickets shouldn’t lag due to negotiations. Consequently, I’ve decided to join a line Monday.

I hope that after Thanksgiving, with all of the tv shows dark (darkening), that the lines get a nice influx of crew and cast members.

In fact I’d like to encourage anyone still holding a job to recommend a line of your chosing to all of your show’s workers. Especially if you’re high up the food chain. Thank your employees (I use this term not in reference to Studios of course) for their solidarity with a warm pot of joe and a bag of bagels Monday morning on the line.

Eric, I agree that in many cases there have been people on all productions who have crossed the WGA picket lines at various times for various reasons. But you are incorrect to assume that I had assistants or other people repeatedly crossing the picket lines while I refused.

For most of the 9 day period (Monday-Friday and Monday-Thursday) during the strike where we continued to shoot, there was actually very little line crossing going on. For the first four days, the pickets came in after everyone was already in for the day. We do not use a caterer at the stage, and the other assistants all went in and out other gates at the lot, which were not being picketed. If our drivers needed to pick anyone or anything up, they went out another gate that wasn’t being picketed. When the pickets spread to the other gates and, later on, went to the earlier times, they still didn’t cover all the entrances and exits, and so there was still at least one driving entrance and one walking entrance that was available to those people who held to the principle.

As for the location day where we were picketed at our base camp/crew parking, it is true that most of the crew and the Teamsters drove through the line, and I have already discussed that at length. But not everybody did so, and there were several of us who respected the line at that time above all.

Our backlot was not one of the major studios, but we’re pretty self-sufficient. And we really didn’t have much coming and going from the lot - perhaps the odd off-production person or production assistant going to the store or coming in late. But it would be quite incorrect for you to assume that I was sending people over to the Warner Bros. lot or to fox or wherever. We really weren’t doing that. We did have a situation during the first three days where we had to shuttle our background in rather than park them at our lot, but the drivers brought them in through an unpicketed gate, and there was never an issue.

I certainly don’t believe for a second that the entire production got away clean. I saw people cross the picket lines myself, from all levels of the production. But I never asked anyone to do so, and I in fact told cast, crew and anyone else who asked, that I could not and would not EVER tell someone to cross a picket line, as it is an anathema to me. And I will repeat that I have NEVER crossed a picket line, and I NEVER WILL. You could argue that the very act of continuing to work on a struck lot was a violation, and I would agree up to a certain point. But as I said, I have tried to honor the contracts I agreed to with the production and my guild, while maintaining moral clarity. It is never an easy thing, and this situation was the hardest one I have dealt with in my entire career.

I’m not calling you out. Everyone is free to make their own decisions as to what is acceptible during these times. You seem to have done quite a bit to both honor the picketers and keep your professional reputation in tact.

What I was specifically trying to draw attention to are the factions of production that have to go through picket lines in order to keep shows up and running. There were no picket-free gates at Universal or Warners. If your wardrobe or set dec department was like most - they used these facilities frequently. They too have no-strike clauses so its their perogative to continue working (if they are so inclined).

I just don’t want anyone to think that their show or movie is somehow sympatico during a strike. Everyone will make his or her own choice as to what they should do when confronted by a picket line (as they should be free to do). But I want everyone to know that there are lots of people working for WGA members who have to cross the line everyday in order to keep these projects flowing, whether or not you specifically are having to cross the line in the course of your own day.

Btw, there are absolutely picket-free gates at at least one of those locations. I know this for a fact.

Oh boy…I know I just opened the door for some more crazy-WB-gates-ranting from Josh.

Stooge

If you are refering to today - it seemed like all studios were picket-free this morning.

The truck entrance gates (which is what these departments use) were picketed at both Universal and Warners. I assure you - I’ve been there.

Eric,

I think that this being a holiday week had something to do with the rally’s turnout. We only saw one other person from my husband’s show (an actor). I can only assume (hope) the writers were there and we just didn’t see them. This was to be an off week for our show anyway, so many made plans to be out of town. And I hope that some IA people did come out today. My hubby and I felt proud to be a part of it all and sad that IATSE wasn’t mentioned among the supporting unions.

The gate off Forest Lawn for WB and the one off of Barham for Uni.

Josh,

“A lot of speakers today, a lot of cheers. Hands down, the loudest cheer from the crowd came when the head of the Teamsters said that we were a militant union. The crowd went apeshit - it felt like an earthquake had hit.”

Can you describe more of this, please?

I didn’t see the rally, coz I worked today -

but traffic seemed a bit lighter than usual on the way in, and from where I sit at the 2nd/Santa Monica Coffee bean) it seems pretty quiet this evening here in S.M. -

I’m leaving town for the Holiday tomorrow morning myself.

DGA reaches a deal with the networks?

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117976323.html?categoryid=14&cs=1

If anyone have any more specific details on this, I’d be curious to hear ‘em.

Doesn’t every studio have one gate not picketed? I remember this in a previous thread, but I forget the term. I even think Josh spent at least a day watching the gate to make sure it was being used properly.

I mailed you a couple of weeks back when you were looking for other sites that were doing strike coverage, but never heard back. No biggie, I’m sure there’s nothing I have that hasn’t been said elsewhere.

We all understand I’m sure that work comes first.

SML,

I’m sure Josh will elaborate, but basically the teamster leader told the WGA to not be a pussy (yes, he actually used that word) and to get in there and get the right deal. He was exactly like I pictured him: gruff, thick accent …hilarious. You would want to be on his side in any fight.

Maybe it is just where I stood, but nothing seemed like an earthquake to me. I was actually amazed by how quiet the rally in general was - not a lot of chanting or noise making. The musicians and janitor union was the noisiest. But, it was still a moving rally none the less.

Thanks Natalie…

If the Teamsters, bless them, actually said don’t be pussies, I could not agree more. The time to get have balls is now. Not tomorrow, not in the next contract negotiation in the future, now. As for the DGA, f’ um. This is not the time to let the “film by” crowd call the tune for the next dance. Not this time. This is the time to finally step up.

Thanks for the description Natalie, sounds more like what my friend told me the rally was like. So Josh, I’ll ask again, which picket line are you going to be on this Monday? My boss has fought for me to be able to work until the end of the month, but I’ll take monday off to show you I’m real.

SML,

There are several accounts of the day over on Writer Action. Stick your head in over there, if you want more. As for the numbers, Eric, where were you? Because the crowd I saw was enormous. I’d guess the numbers rivalled the Fox rally, and that’s with many people already gone for the Holiday. No way was that a disappointing turn-out.

Natalie,

I was by the press stand, and it was so loud there, it was deafening sometimes. Obviously, where you stand makes a difference, but that line from the Teamsters was, far and way, the one that got the wildest response.

Shaun,

Uh…. what? I have no idea who you are, and - no offense - the question of whether or not you’re “real” has never entered my mind. Why does this matter to you?

Tell you what - tell me where YOU’RE gonna be Monday, and if I come up with a reason to care, I’ll stop by.

Natalie wrote:

Maybe it is just where I stood, but nothing seemed like an earthquake to me. I was actually amazed by how quiet the rally in general was - not a lot of chanting or noise making.

Natalie, you must have misunderstood. Josh says there was an earthquake. And that people hate me. So you’re clearly wrong. :)

Well Josh, you’ve stated a few times on here that:

1. Most of us aren’t real people or are shills.

2. That most of us don’t work in the industry. You had one wonderful line about “when you see that guy walk into the studio you KNOW that he works in this industry”

3. That most of the people on here are idiots.
   Josh said “Goes to the general level of idiocy one finds here, I guess…..”

4. That you would like people to come out to the lines and support the strike. The strike, the strike. It isn’t about money is it? It’s about respect and human decency right? Right? Human decency.

So I just thougth well, the guy seems reasonable when he’s not ranting I’ll go introduce myself show him that “Shaun” is “Shaun” in real life, I’d show you my studio badge with unflattering picture so that you know I work (I’ve always said I am just a PA) in the industry in the smallest of ways and show you that I can walk and talk or some other “test” to show I’m not a complete moron. And last but not least, what you’ve always been on your soap box about with your aching feet is for people to come join the line. Oh, but right, “brother” you just want the important people - ATL only, perhaps? Must keep appearances for “after” the strike.

Josh lastly said: “Tell you what - tell me where YOU’RE gonna be Monday, and if I come up with a reason to care, I’ll stop by”

Your apathy could fill the world, I hope it serves you well. This whole time I thought, would I measure up to meet someone of such talent, one who has fought and slaved and become a “writer”. I guess not.

shaun -

let me tell you from personal experience that strangers asking you online to meet you in person has a bit of a creepy feel to it…

Especially if that person doesn’t seem particularly sympathetic towards you.

So Olson not telling you - and thereby the entire artfulwriter community - what gate he will march is certainly not a sign of apathy, but rather common sense.

It also doesn’t mean you can’t join the line. It only means you can’t walk it holding hands with a successful writer you tried to deride.

Eric, I don’t feel you were trying to “call me out” or whatever the parlance is. I just thought you were trying to imply that I or my production staff were engaging in immoral behavior, and I was having none of it.

And to be clear, our production does not make use of facilities at Warner Bros., Paramount, Fox, Universal or Disney, to my knowledge. They very likely rented from Western Costume (as do most productions) but there are no picket lines there. As for our set decoration department, I believe they rent from outside sources anyway - cheaper than from the studios, which regularly overcharge for everything. So your statement didn’t actually apply to us in a meaningful sense.

As for the notion of people “working for WGA members” crossing picket lines, I find the language curious. I must believe that you think that those of us who have worked on television productions should drop our hammers, as it were, and walk away from the shows, even when the “WGA members” are also our producers and showrunners who mandated that we finish the existing episodes. Let’s be clear here. Is this what you believe?

I must repeat what I have previously stated in this regard: When one of our showrunners made a speech on our set on the Friday night before the strike began, and talked to us about the difficult choice that would await everyone as of Monday, I felt the urge to ask that person the obvious question: “Are you asking us to shut down and not complete your final episode? Are you asking us to stop working? Is that what you really want?” And when we were confronted with a picket line led by our showrunners at dawn on location the next week (in a vain attempt to cause our drivers to go back to stage rather than drive through the picket line, as they did), that question still loomed in all of our minds. But to ask that question would have been to force our showrunners to say something that they could not and would not put on the record. It would have been seen as rude and insolent, regardless of whether the producer in question is a WGA member or anyone else.

But if my boss expects me to drop my work and leave, I in turn expect a direct statement of that. Not an implied hint of “Well, you know what you should do…” In the absence of that, I simply had my own moral code and the situation before me. And I reacted in the best way I could. As did the rest of my crew. And as it turned out, the DGA personnel acquitted themselves better than anyone would have admitted, given the perception of the DGA as the guild that somehow sells out everyone else. I think that perception is based on the director and the ADs being the authority figures on the set, but it’s still inaccurate.

Craig -

I saw about a gazillion signs at the Hollywood march today…which one did you make?

“Unfortunately the turnout was not nearly as high as I would have imagined. Either people really are getting burned out on the front lines (a bad bellwether of months to come if this drags on longer) or the optimism of renewed talks is dangerously impeding the need to stay on track and focused.”

Wow, you and I had really different perceptions of this event. I thought the turnout was awesome… at least as good as the turnout at the Fox rally on Day 1, and prolly better.

It was way too huge and crowded for me to be able to see everyone who was there, but I happened to have bumped into 7 of the writers from my own writing staff (Family Guy), and 3 current or former writers’ assistants from that same show, and, of course, scads of feature and television writers from other shows that I happen to have met on the picket lines. I also enjoyed bumping into a contingent of supporting workers from the LAX 4 Points Sheraton, as it just so happens that I got voluntarily arrested for them (and other Century Blvd. hotel workers) last year at the community support action on Century Blvd. I weaved my way through the crowd to pat ‘em on the back and thank ‘em for returning the favor.

My one complaint at this rally (as at the Fox rally) was that the speaker system didn’t carry the sound very far… so most folks standing more than a hundred feet (or so) from the stage couldn’t hear what was being said very well, or much at all. And, numercially, the vast majority of folks were more than a hundred feet or so from the stage.

As to the other topic of debate on this thread (the crossing of picket lines, or asking ones employees to do the same), I, first of all, acknowledge that we all have to follow our own moral compasses on this one. Where you or I draw our moral lines isn’t where everyone else draws theirs’, and it’s good to remind ourselves of that, especially when it’s an emotionally heated topic, as this one is. That said, here’s where I stand: entering and exiting a lot that you know is struck is crossing a picket line, whether or not the specific gate you are entering/exiting happens to have picketers standing out front. If I had gone to, say, the Ralph’s (back during the stretch of time when the grocery workers were on strike), and I’d found some back entrance where picketers didn’t happen to be standing, I wouldn’t pat myself on the back and say, “I have NEVER crossed a picket line!” ‘Cause I will’ve. I just will’ve done so in a way that, somehow, feels more morally palatable, or is less socially awkward.

Again, in my eyes, anyone who crosses onto or off of a struck lot is crossing a picket line, regardless of the gate in which they enter and exit, or even the time of day in which they enter and exit. And anyone who asks their employees to cross onto or off of a struck lot is asking their employees to cross a picket line, regardless of the gate in which those employees are asked to enter or exit, or even the time of day in which those employees are asked to enter or exit. The above people, certainly, can feel free to tell themselves that they have good reason to cross a picket line. They can tell themselves they have no choice but to do it. They can tell themselves they owe it to their families to do it. They can tell themselves that, were the situations reversed, the other guys would’ve crossed their picket lines. And all of the above may even possibly be true. But one thing they can’t do, legitimately, in my eyes, is enter a struck lot (regardless of the gate, or the time of entrance) while still telling themselves, or others, “I have NEVER crossed a picket line!” ‘Cause, in my mind, they’re just fooling themselves.

Again, though, your mileage may vary, and I understand.

Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA

Shaun,

“Well Josh, you’ve stated a few times on here that: 1. Most of us aren’t real people or are shills.”

Interesting assertion. Show me where I did that. Or apologize for mis-characterizing my comments.

“That most of us don’t work in the industry. You had one wonderful line about “when you see that guy walk into the studio you KNOW that he works in this industry”

Haven’t said that, either.

“That most of the people on here are idiots.”

Yeah, that one’s true. It’s the internet, kid. The place is crawling with morons. Hate to break it to you.

“That you would like people to come out to the lines and support the strike”

Sure. So go strike.

“It isn’t about money is it? It’s about respect and human decency right? Right? Human decency.”

Yet another inane mis-characterization of what I said.

Here’s what’s interesting about your post - I’ve specifically singled out a few people as fakes - Stooge clearly is, and the guy who claimed to have written comic books, and didn’t even know what a graphic novel was. Why you’d take that personally, I truly don’t know. Same with the other comments. You work in the industry, so why you’d assume I was talking about you is a mystery only your therapist can help you understand.

Seriously - when I take Craig to task for posting rumors about the strike he knows are false, do you take THAT personally, too?

“So I just thougth well, the guy seems reasonable when he’s not ranting I’ll go introduce myself show him that “Shaun” is “Shaun” in real life”

What makes you think I care? I assume everyone here is someone in real life. Some are who they say, others are not. It’s pretty much irrelevant.

“Oh, but right, “brother” you just want the important people - ATL only, perhaps? Must keep appearances for “after” the strike.”

Well, like a lot of your post, most of this is incomprehensible, but I’ll address one thing - the notion that I’m some kind of Above The Line snob. I started out by doing your job. Did it on one feature, then moved into other departments. I spent close to ten years crewwing movies and TV. If there’s one person here who will NEVER denigrate the important of the Below The Line crew on a film, it’s me. That’s your own insecurity talking, kid.

“Your apathy could fill the world”

My apathy as exhibited by what? The fact that I’m out on the line every day? The fact that I come here and take Craig to task for shitting on the strikers and our leadership?

Kid, you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about with any of this. You’re angry, and uninformed, and you’re lashing out at me without any actual rationale. The reasons you give range from wildly inaccurate interpretations to outright fabrications.

I’ve been in this business for twenty years. I’ve worked my ass off, and I’ve never taken a step that wasn’t informed by my passionate conviction that what we - all of us - do is important.

If you’re gonna accuse someone of apathy, have the common sense to make sure you know what the fuck you’re talking about first.

By the way, to whoever was saying the turnout was low - the police and local news have estimated it at 4,000. Which is pretty goddam high…

Shaun,

Not that Josh needs me to defend him, but…

“And last but not least, what you’ve always been on your soap box about with your aching feet is for people to come join the line. Oh, but right, “brother” you just want the important people - ATL only, perhaps? Must keep appearances for “after” the strike.”

I’ve been on the line with Josh, for part of the strike. While there, I’ve never felt more appreciated, welcomed, and gushed upon (embarrassingly so). By Josh (and a hell of a lot of other people, too — but he’s been the most vocal about it). And, this is AFTER he learned that I wasn’t in the WGA.

In this poster’s opinion, you’re incorrect, Josh is incredibly grateful when people OTHER THAN ATL folks show up.

Apologies, Josh, if this is ruining your online cred.

Johnny Hartmann, I hear what you’re saying. I understand the “creepy” factor and that you guys as writers are probably stalked just as much as actors but my thinking was this: It’s a picket line……with many many people and cops there(at least there has always been two at the Fox gate) during broad daylight. I figured that most people would feel safe in that scenario. Also, Josh seems to be a eye to eye kind of person who doesn’t hide behind his keyboard. I come from a place where the value of a handshake goes a long way. That being said, where I come from people are just people, none better none worse.

I saw about a gazillion signs at the Hollywood march today…which one did you make?

I duct-taped the picket handles on many many many signs. While I was there, I think our group of four picket handle duct tapers churned out about 500 or so.

“I duct-taped the picket handles on many many many signs. While I was there, I think our group of four picket handle duct tapers churned out about 500 or so.”

From a fellow Guild member, thanks, Craig, for doing that.

Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA

Patrick:

Oh, jeez, no need, dude. I’ve got quite a bit of catching up to do.

Wouldn’t it be interesting if more people could be like Patrick Meighan? He can express disappointment and anger without sounding like a complete maniac…

We need more writers like you.

Craig:

I stand by my earthquake statement.

Now that I think of it though, I forgot to mention that one time when Verrone led us in that “We hate Craig Mazin” chant and then Leo Reed told you to stop being a faggot.

Patrick:

I agree the sound system sucked balls. My husband, who is a sound guy, only shook his head and said “Man, they really need IATSE on their side”. We had a really hard time hearing everything and I didn’t see one speaker or Alicia Keys because the speakers blocked everything. But, it was on a truck in the middle of Hollywood Blvd, so I won’t be too judgemental.

Natalie,

“I stand by my earthquake statement.”

And I stand by mine. Which comes attached to my real name.

But nice going underplaying the crowd and their response. Craig loves that shit.

Josh I was making a joke. Chill out. And Natalie is my real name.

Patrick, I believe you were addressing me with the comments about crossing picket lines, so I’ll respond here. If I am incorrect, please say so. I am truly saddened by your comments, as they sound like you have not actually read what I have been repeatedly trying to say here.

Your statements are correct in their moral absolutism, and they actually line up quite well with the “A GOOD UNION PERSON” guidelines posted (by Kay, I think) on an earlier thread some time ago. (A Good Union Person immediately leaves any struck workplace, A Good Union Person doesn’t talk with anyone before they leave, A Good Union Person doesn’t come back until the strike is over, etc etc) And you’re of course entitled to your opinion about it. But that isn’t the only point of view, and people who disagree with you on it are not amoral or immoral for doing so. I’m not saying that you think they are - I’m just making sure we’re clear about this.

Your statements do not include the fact that just about everyone reporting for work on my show were members of guilds and unions that have contracts with “no strike” clauses. I did not report for work because I felt I had a reason or because I was trying to justify working at a picketed lot. I reported to work because I signed a contract with the UPM who hired me, and because I signed a contract with the DGA to abide by their terms. Walking away from either of those committments would be an immoral and an unethical act. (And as my DGA rep informed when I called, that act would result in my immediate termination and in potential disciplinary action within the DGA) And the analogy about sneaking into the back of Ralph’s during the 03 strike is the same one I made some time ago, but it doesn’t address these concerns. So it’s not nearly as simple as you presented it.

The actual crossing of a picket line is more than a symbolic statement. It’s a direct statement between the person crossing the line and the picketers. And it’s a statement about what that person thinks regarding both the strike in question and about the sanctity of unions in general. It’s a disrespectful and immoral act to walk through someone’s picket line, and it’s more than a bit disingenuous for anyone to say that refusal to do this is because it’s just “socially awkward” or “uncomfortable”. It’s a lot more serious than that. And when I watched our Teamsters and most of our crew drive cars and trucks through the picket line on location, it made me physically ill. You may find that unbelievable, but it’s the truth for whatever that may be worth.

At no time here or elsewhere have I presented this situation as one of patting myself on the back or anything else like that. If you have that impression, then I apologize, but that’s not what I have been trying to say here. I have repatedly stated that this has been possibly the most difficult situation of my career. I have tried to honor both my moral commitment to respect picket lines, and my moral and ethical commitments to the DGA and the people who hired me to do the show. I have also stated that the situation was made more difficult by the conflicting messages sent to us by our showrunners - on the one hand, we are told to finish our episode. On the other, we are given an implied instruction to walk away. And as I have stated before, the act by me of asking for a direct instruction from them on this point would not have been received as anything other than being insolent during a difficult time for them and us.

I thought I was clear before about this, but I’ll say it again. At no point during the 9 days did I tell anyone in my cast or crew to cross a WGA picket line. And at no point did I cross a WGA picket line. This is why I capitalized the word NEVER. And I didn’t talk about saying I felt I had a reason or felt I had no choice or any of the other justifications you have listed. I have discussed the moral and ethical implications of renouncing my contract and my DGA membership that would be activated by my refusing to even appear for work.

Now, you may feel that I’m just “fooling” myself, and you’re entitled to your feelings about that. But I assure you this is not the case, and I hope that if you read my statements carefully, you will come to a different conclusion.

Folks, I’m going back to enforcing our simple policy of civil commentary.

If it’s not civil, I’m deleting it.

And if I find myself deleting the same person’s comments over and over, then I’m gonna toss them. It’s getting really really tired.

To reiterate, you can disagree all you want, you can criticize all you want, but you cannot call people names, call them morons, call them creeps, call them infantile…etc.

My place, my rules. Don’t like it, tough. You can complain about it elsewhere.

Craig -

I noticed the handles…supremo duct tape job!

I hope deuchebaggy is not out of line…although I guess this may get deleted. Sorry if it was. I agree with you, Craig.

Stooge

The DGA and Nets did sign the FLTTA. Ruh Roh, Josh. Looks like you need to spend more time laying into your other guild and less time trying to fracture your current one.

Stooge

Patrick,

First of all, I agree with you that the difference between actually crossing a picket line or finding ways around it is negligible. Secondly, I strongly commend your amazing support of the Coalition for a New Century (www.newcenturycoalition.com), which is an incredibly worthy cause.

However, I am curious as to how you justify using these same types of tactics for a labor movement where one person carries a picket sign next to someone else who makes ten thousand times as much as they do. If anything, part of my frustration with your guild is that they are using the PR benefits of striking for the poorer members while doing (and asking) for so little to improve their lot compared to the richer members. I mean honestly, if the WGA got everything it wanted, what would the median member earn? $5,050 and still no health care? How can anyone who is a friend of labor not at least address the issue of income disparity here?

I understand the need for solidarity among writers engaged in a complicated negotiation. I just think it would be more ethical (and more effective in the long run) for the WGA to take the high road and stop framing this strike for something it isn’t.

I wasn’t at the march. I don’t think the size/attendance is a concern.

But for the sake of accuracy alone, according to today’s Hollywood Reporter, police estimated around 1500, while WGA estimated 4000. Obviously, one must consider the source, but Josh said the police estimated 4000 and this article contradicts that.

That being said, Monday is important to have a good showing. Don’t let the AMPTP rope-a-dope into a false sense of security.

On the internet it isn’t easy to tell who’s being genuine and who’s not, so everything is a little suspect. On top of that, no one opinion has struck a perfect chord, but I guess that’s as it should be.

So, I agree with some of what Craig says, a lot of what Josh says and Ted, well, Ted is just really fucking smart on a lot of levels, which brought up an interesting question in my mind.

Ted, are you AMPTP stooge?

AMPTP Stooge,

I gotta correct you:

It’s douchebag, not deuchebag.

Deuchebag sounds like the place where you keep German money.

I was the one claiming the numbers at yesterday’s rally to be less than ideal. True - 4,000 is quite a showing.

But with the DGA’s 10,000 members and Mr. Short’s claim of 50,000 IATSE workers recently unemployed, not to mention the number of Teamsters in Southern California - well it seems like Hollywood Blvd. could have been clogged with duct taped handled signs from Western to La Brea.

I was not encouraging a disparaging tone to the strike in anyway. Rather a call to arms to continue kicking and screaming. And a hope that all of these displaced workers will hop on the train.

Sorry to have seemingly abandoned my position from yesterday but I went to play last night at the Ahmanson. Does that constitute a union breach?

MLBPA: You are entirely right that a lot of the class and union rhetoric coming out of the WGA doesn’t really hold up that well. I could go on about this in detail, but this isn’t really the time or place, except to say that anyone who thinks seriously about labor within a socialist intellectual tradition would probably conclude that the issues the WGA are fighting over, while legitimate (in my opinion), are basically internecine class issues. Not to mention that there’s a bit of a disconnect between two of the major WGA talking points: that this is a fight to maintain the middle class, and that the AMPTP companies only care about their stock prices. (Since something like eighty percent of stocks are held by middle or working class people, via retirement funds, CALpers, etc.) And the executive compensation issue is, to me, an argument for increasing pay for un-unionized menial laborers, not for petit-bourgeois information workers.

Anyway, the WGA member in me wants a fair contract. But the ex-Spartacus Socialist Youth Group member in me wants to write long, dry manifestos about false class consciousness and Marxist labor sociology in the information age.

I’m a little conflicted but all I can do is keep thinking and picketing.

MLBPA: “I am curious as to how you justify using these same types of tactics for a labor movement where one person carries a picket sign next to someone else who makes ten thousand times as much as they do. If anything, part of my frustration with your guild is that they are using the PR benefits of striking for the poorer members while doing (and asking) for so little to improve their lot compared to the richer members. I mean honestly, if the WGA got everything it wanted, what would the median member earn? $5,050 and still no health care? How can anyone who is a friend of labor not at least address the issue of income disparity here?”

MLBPA, I’m not sure what you’re actually advocating the WGA do. Maybe it’s just a failure of my own imagination, but if you could give me some specific examples of policies you think the WGA should enact that’d make a practical difference to lower-paid, underemployed and unemployed writers, I could look ‘em over and say if I, personally, favor ‘em or not (betcha I would… I’m a big ol’ pinko that way).

That said, there’s two things I’d like to point out: one is that, while there are certainly very rich WGA members and very poor WGA members, I’d hazzard the guess that the vast majority of WGA members sit solidly in the (rapidly shrinking) middle class. And just as I’m very willing to fight for this city’s working poor (which is why I agreed to sit in the middle of Century Blvd., get zip cuffed, loaded on a police bus, and tossed in jail for the night), I’m also willing, and eager, to fight for this city’s middle class. They’re the engine that truly drives this city’s economy, that keeps this city’s public schools functioning, that prevents this city from absolutely and completely dissolving into a dystopia of walled-off bantustans, separating the very rich from the very poor. The middle class matters, and if the WGA gets successfully busted, the studios will come after every other union next, each in its own time, and you and I can kiss L.A.’s middle class goodbye, now and forever.

The second thing I’d point out is that residual checks (which, ultimately, are the little green paper battlefields upon which this war is being fought) mean more to poorer writers than to any other constituency within the WGA. I, personally, have a pretty nice middle-class existence at the moment (‘cause I’ve been fortunate to land on a successful and on-going television show), so a residual check in my mailbox, while awesome, doesn’t make the difference between survival and economic disaster. For a poorer writer, though, say, someone who spent a few weeks on one short-lived, now-defunct television show and hasn’t been as fortunate as I have since then, that residual check can be the difference between making rent and being evicted. Between scraping together the payment for a late credit card bill or going into default and effing up one’s credit rating for the next seven years. In that very real sense, poorer writers and unemployed writers win if the WGA wins this contract negotiation. And if the WGA loses this contract negotiation, poorer and unemployed writers lose.

At least that’s my opinion.

Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA

Kevin - That’s pretty funny. I was trying to get by the censor…ok…not true. I can’t spell.

Brian - I think we both can agree that Josh probably just slipped up. I so wanted to jump to conclusions and call him a liar, but sometimes people just get it wrong. More to the point, though, “who cares about the numbers” is right. We got here because Josh used his personal observation of the event to support his position that “everyone” (the prophet Josh speaks for the masses) supports millitants and the moderates are scum. Not that his initial point mattered anymore than the size of the crowd.

Sara - Ted is not me, since I feel he’s clearly been more fair and smarter than I.

Johnny - Josh has posted too many times here for that to fly. Douchebaggy is borderline (though, in my defense, it was before I read Craig’s post…I will do my best to toe the line Craig has drawn). Condescending is not.

Seriously, though, do the Josh supporters even want the strike to end? I don’t even know what the strife between the Criag Camp and Josh Camp is anymore other than they don’t personally seem to like one another. Is Craig for the WGA taking less money or something? I thought Craig was just dissapointed in how the leadership handled the strike. Not the craziest of claims.

Now, if the Josh Camp is just mad at Craig for failing to parrot the WGA-mandated talking points, then I think they are wrong. If he really were hampering the strike efforts, then I guess you all are just claiming success in forcing the AMPTP back to the table was IN SPITE of Craig. Well, then you should leave him alone. If you believe the strike is/was working, then how can you also come here and claim Craig is undermining it? Maybe, in fact, he is helping.

Stooge

A juicy thread indeed Mr. Odebt -

This is all well and fine except spare yourself the angst of your socialist ideals competing against the stock prices of the AMPTP (which supposedly benefit the working classes). The overwhelming drive of our government toward privatization over the past decade should leave no question in your mind that as soon as possible - any company that still provides retirement programs/funds will find a way through ‘failure to compete’ or bankruptcy provisions to eliminate those programs. So no corporate good will befall our fellow workers besides that from their own portfolios - which I don’t believe are held by too many of the paycheck-to-paycheck employees of the world.

Even CALpers is not safe (see the Keating 5 - anyone still thinking of voting for John McCain should look at little closer into his ties to this bunch). Or Orange County’s pension plan. Or San Diego’s.

Patrick Meighan wrote:

MLBPA, I’m not sure what you’re actually advocating the WGA do. Maybe it’s just a failure of my own imagination, but if you could give me some specific examples of policies you think the WGA should enact that’d make a practical difference to lower-paid, underemployed and unemployed writers, I could look ‘em over and say if I, personally, favor ‘em or not (betcha I would… I’m a big ol’ pinko that way).

Mind you, I’m not advocating this at all, but I had an interesting conversation with a French person recently who told me that, in France, the equivalent of the WGA collects all the residuals (or, as they would put it, ‘tout les residuals’) and then distributes them in weekly checks to any member who is unemployed at that time. So it’s kind of a socialized residual system, which helps the person in your example who was on one show, and does so at the expense of your ‘Family Guy’ residual checks. Again, I’m NOT advocating this, but if your argument for residuals is that they help poorer writers more, I think you’d want to consider some sort of system like this.

Eric,

I agree that if IATSE was on board, the numbers yesterday could have been massive. There are IA members who are in solidarity, but the union leaders have openly condemned the strike and in doing so, have turned many against the WGA. It is really too bad. I have to believe that the truth behind the WGA and IATSE drama lies somewhere in the middle and that both sides have made judgement errors. I wish the IATSE leaders would bury their hatchet long enough to get this strike over and encourage its members to strengthen the unions in this fight against the AMPTP.

Cliff - Once again…brilliant. See, Josh, now that is f’ing persuasive!

I have made an effort to avoid bringing this up, because I am already being accused of trying to divide and concur (it was sometime around your great Coutner’s nose looks like a pastry post…still laugh about that).

The truth is that, like in Major League Baseball (MLBPA?), the salary structure is so top heavy. Alex Rodriguez and the utility player for the Giants have very little in common. ARod is closer to being “management” than a player. Same holds true for writers. Stephen Speilberg is a member of the WGA. So is George Lucas. These guys are more like “management” (in fact they ARE management and Showrunners are the exact same, though not as successful, obviously). So the typical “labor v management” rhetoric that Josh likes to use to whip the writers who make less than he into a frenzy (and Josh I am sure you earn every penny and are otherwise a decent fellow towards other writers when not on strike…not the point I’m making) is at best misplaced and at worse manipulative. For the most part, when there isn’t a strike, everyone is looking out for themselves (again, I am sure there are some very succesful WGA members that do great things for aspiring writers, just probably not the norm). So, is the Showrunner more of a “suit” or more of a “writer”? The lines they do a blur.

But, you know, black and white plays better.

Stooge

Eric Devlin Taylor: I certainly agree with you re: privatization, but even a pretty large chunk of the middle class holds mutual funds outside of company sponsored retirement plans. I don’t have the figure handy, but it surprised me when I saw it.

Anyway, the point is, all this class stuff really is a lot more complicated than people pretend. I’d prefer that the WGA just justify its position on its own merits, though I understand the political expediency of not doing so, and I want an acceptable contract. So… it’s just complicated, is all.

AMPTP Stooge,

Blacks can play anything better than Whites.

Eric,

I don’t think there is a connection between the Republicans’ drive towards privatization (something that they have both succeeded and failed at doing — but see 2006 and soon 2008 as a referendum on that ideology) and the elimination of pensions and health benefits.

These things may just be REGULATED by the government, but not MANDATED. Employers provide these benefits because they have to to compete for talented labor. Guilds get em because they negotiated for them. Totally different constructs anyway.

Stooge

“Mind you, I’m not advocating this at all, but I had an interesting conversation with a French person recently who told me that, in France, the equivalent of the WGA collects all the residuals (or, as they would put it, ‘tout les residuals’) and then distributes them in weekly checks to any member who is unemployed at that time. So it’s kind of a socialized residual system, which helps the person in your example who was on one show, and does so at the expense of your ‘Family Guy’ residual checks. Again, I’m NOT advocating this, but if your argument for residuals is that they help poorer writers more, I think you’d want to consider some sort of system like this.”

Speaking for only myself, I’d favor the French example you outline above (even if it did cost me some of my Family Guy residual checks).

You might have difficulty selling it to the WGA’s membership at large (or maybe you wouldn’t, I dunno), but I, personally, would be for it.

Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA

Patrick,

I would be happy to point out what I think would be a fairly easy solution to this problem.

Writers keep saying using the $200,00 average salary of working writers is unfair since the actual median income is $5,000. But it is also unfair to point the finger solely at the AMPTP for that inequity, when the WGA is, in my opinion, in a much better position to reduce the disparity. These writers (and actors and directors) are operating in a free market; there is no inherent cap on the amount they can earn for their services (only a minimum, which the AMPTP has been shamelessly trying to reduce). Unless you are claiming collusion (which may only be one or two FCC rulings away), the market dictates the aggregate amount paid to writers, residuals or no residuals. Why not have the WGA tax the biggest earners 25% and put it into the health fund so that all those $5,000 a year writers can get adequate health care? Could it be…I don’t know…greed? And what exactly is the difference between Peter Chernin making $34m a year and Matt Groening making $34m a year other than the fact that they are both ridiculously overpaid, somewhat talented people that seem to have had a few lucky breaks? OK, fine, I would rather hang out with Matt, but I tend to believe that both occupations are subject to vicious power laws (which are often due to luck) and that we should use policy to counteract this inequity.

I thank Clifford for the kind words, although his politics seem to be much further to the left than my own. Also, you can negotiate any deal that you want – this is a fairly free country and you have no obligation beyond yourself. I only am mentioning my issue with this because I think to a certain extent hoodwinking the public into thinking this strike is being fought for the same issues as the Hotel Workers’ may do irreparable harm to those types of causes in the future, if not damage the credibility of the WGA as well.

Sara - Ted is not me, since I feel he’s clearly been more fair and smarter than I.

That’s why it’s so clever!

But truly, money can come from anywhere. I really feel if the AMPTP makes things too difficult for too long, talent will find other sources for backing. Maybe, in the process, the WGA will be reborn.

I’m no Ted on such subjects, but it certainly sounds plausible and, perhaps, even preferable in the long run.

It is complicated in that Deridian ‘everything is everything’ kind of argument and this contract is factored into the economics of the world and the realities of who has what.

What is not complicated is the percentages that writers deserve from their work as it is broadcast on any number of formats. And how that breaks down in perpetuity.

Johnny,

I am asking because I am, while not “clueless”, confused. I was being genuine. It seems to me that Josh is more interested in the fight itself rather than the goal of the fight. Why is he being so antagonistic? Why cast so many people as “evil”? I don’t think that helps ending fights. Maybe I’m crazy.

I thought my point about Craig either being ineffectual or effectual was fair. Sorry if that riled you up. You can’t have it both ways (he is undermining the strike…but the strike is working!).

Stooge

Pow, MLBPA, out of the park. Just crushed it. There’s the very uncomfortable truth.

Stooge

Dude, read your own sentences:

“You can’t have it both ways (he is undermining the strike…but the strike is working!).”

IN SPITE OF!

There’s no contradiction here.

Eric Devlin Taylor:

Great, you had to bring up Derrida. I’m out of here.

No, seriously, I agree that the fact that we deserve a better deal then what was on the table on Nov. 1st is not complicated. So I’m basically just kvetching about the rhetoric. But what can I say? I’m a writer, so I think about words and their implications.

MLBPA: Thanks for the thanks, though I am actually not far left at all, and have even voted for a Republican or two. As for your salary cap / health fund idea, I think it’s great, though there are implementation issues (for instance, re Matt Groening, most of his vast income is via his ownership stake in the show, and merchandising, and maybe producing fees, none of which is under WGA jurisdiction— and that’s true for most of the high earners.)

Sara - you currently have and are exercising those “other avenues.” The reason you have to deal with the studios and networks is because they are the only ones pretty much willing to put up large sums of money for your work. Just like everyone else, writers go to the highest bidder. The AMPTP bids a lot.

The media congloms are worried about the competition from the internet, but not in terms of fighting over talent. It’s in terms of fighting over market share. For better or for worse, you both need each other.

Stooge

So, Johnny, leave him alone. He’s not undermining anything, since everything is moving on IN SPITE of him. And perhaps it’s not in spite of him but because of him. Maybe he’s moving people into the moderate crowd and away from the silly and divisive “labor v management” crowd.

Point is…you are damned either way. Craig is either right or no one cares. Either way you can stop laying into him.

Stooge

Patrick, it sounds like you are a generous individual that you would be okay with giving up a portion of your income to “spread the wealth”.

Writing is such a discipline. It is hard and frustrating. And it isn’t the kind of thing that everyone can or should do for a living. Unless you are really good or really lucky, you will have a hard time supporting yourself through writing. It is no different than being an artist or an actor. Or anything for that matter. There are crew members who go months without work because they don’t have the job skills or social skills to get steady gigs.

I guess I don’t understand why it is a “problem” that there are people in the guild that make less money than others and some point out. It isn’t that your pay scale or minimums are different. It isn’t that there is blatant discrimination. It is just that the talented or lucky members are finding steady work and the others are not. Isn’t that just how life works? I’m not trolling - I really want some perspective here. I understand that you can be a talented writer and still go through rough spots because of all kinds of scenarios - but I would wager you could apply that reasoning to many kinds of careers.

What is an internet conversation among displaced bodies with pseudnyms arguing over semantics (and the politics inherent) if not a crash course in Derrida.

“These writers (and actors and directors) are operating in a free market; there is no inherent cap on the amount they can earn for their services (only a minimum, which the AMPTP has been shamelessly trying to reduce). Unless you are claiming collusion (which may only be one or two FCC rulings away), the market dictates the aggregate amount paid to writers, residuals or no residuals. Why not have the WGA tax the biggest earners 25% and put it into the health fund so that all those $5,000 a year writers can get adequate health care? Could it be…I don’t know…greed?”

The reason the median writer salary is at $5,000 (if, in fact, it is, I don’t personally know), it’s not because there are “all those $5,000 a year writers,” it’s because many, many members of the WGA earned $0 last year, which, obviously, brings down the median. The WGA can do many things, but it can’t force studios to hire writers that the studios don’t want to hire (or don’t have jobs for). That’s why there’ll always be a gap between the richest writers and the poorest (read: unemployed) writers, unless the WGA gets into the business of reapportioning the collected wealth of the Guild’s membership. As I said above, you may be able to persuade me that wealth-reapportionment should be the WGA’s mandate, but you might have trouble persuading a critical mass of my fellow Guild members, and, as you’ve doubtless heard, we’ve got our hands full with something else at the moment.

“I only am mentioning my issue with this because I think to a certain extent hoodwinking the public into thinking this strike is being fought for the same issues as the Hotel Workers’ may do irreparable harm to those types of causes in the future, if not damage the credibility of the WGA as well.”

Personally, I don’t think the public believes this strike is being fought for the same issues as the hotel workers (except insofar as both they and we are fighting against very profitable corporations who don’t give two poops about their respective rosters of employees except insofar as those employees can increase their already-bulging profit margins). The hotel workers are fighting for the right to organize, so that they can have things like affordable health care, a living wage, and safe working conditions. The writers are fighting to prevent rollbacks on a significant portion of our annual income: the residual check. Both may be fights for fairness, and against similar (powerful, profitable) foes, but the issues are different, and I don’t know many people who believe otherwise.

Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA

Sorry my post should say “as some point out”

Patrick,

Let’s say you went down to the hotel workers’ protest, encouraged to do so by fighting for the working rights of the lower class. Then you get to that protest and meet one hotel worker who is being paid below a living wage to clean the bathrooms and then another one that is being paid $10 million to do the same work, but maybe they are slightly better at it or maybe it was just the luck of the draw. Wouldn’t you feel a little hoodwinked?

My problem is that I feel like the WGA is using tactics that the general public associates with these types of labor movements while fudging to the public who is really going to benefit in the end. So, I would say either align your proposal with the cause you are marching under or stay at home like the baseball players did. And I can’t believe it would be that hard to muster support among rich writers to pay for the poor writer’s health care considering the amazing job you’ve done of motivating widespread support against the AMPTP. But if you ever need someone to march for WGA Writers (or Studio and Agency employees) without Health Care, I will happily stand with you at the gates. I am just not sure whose gates we would be at.

Sorry to break up the conversation about Socialism in the WGA, but I just wanted to wish everyone a Happy Thanksgiving.

Brian, I’m 1/4 Native American, and I’m very offended by that. You murderer.

CliffordOdebt:

What makes you think I’m not also? Now, I’m offended that you might have maligned my character, but not yet very offended as the offense is only a possibility.

I shudder to think what you would have said if I added everyone to have a good “black friday!”

AMPTP Stooge said:

“The reason you have to deal with the studios and networks is because they are the only ones pretty much willing to put up large sums of money for your work.”

I wouldn’t count on this always being the case as competitors sense opportunities to compete that never existed before today.

Studios don’t necessarily HAVE all the money, as I’ve heard some say. They ATTRACT money based on two primary resources: relationship to talent and and an established distribution apparatus. I don’t think anyone doubts that digitization of media and the internet is a game changer in terms of distribution so if I were the AMPTP I’d be a lot more concerned about maintaining my other asset.

The writers are currently desperately fighting for a share of internet revenue but that shoe could very well be on the AMPTP’s foot in a future a lot closer than they’d like to think.

MLBPA - while I personally agree with your stance in a vacuum, you clearly do not understand how this business works in terms of payment versus work involved.

At the heart of your issue really is the role of the union itself. In a utopian ideal the WGA would be creating a level economic reality for all of its members. However all it really does is represent those members within the film industry to make sure that minimums are maintained. While it does not procure work for the members it also does not cap their potential earnings. What you are not factoring in is the amount of work writers do without getting paid at all - hours, weeks, months on projects without a paycheck. Even the most prolific writers (and their crew of ghost scribes) only write so many movies/original tv shows that actually get made in their career. And the majority of the guild members don’t even get the opportunities to produce anywhere near their maximum output.

Whereas a script a has a certain amount of value based off of its returns in the marketplace, a clean hotel room has but one objective. If there was a way for each hotel worker to put a premium on their services, and the industry discerned the variations in the product - then the hotel workers union would be set up in a similar fashion to the WGA. And I am fairly certain that the hotel workers’ contract does not stipulate a pay ceiling for their services anyway. If they could get their agents to wrangle them a better personal deal for each day’s work - I’m sure the union wouldn’t prevent it from happening. Their work gets paid everytime it is done. They don’t need to run through a gauntlet of studio’s/producers’ notes in order to get that room clean.

In as much as the major haves in the guild benefit from the provision we are trying to secure first and foremost - all of the members need them as part of their guarenteed minimums. Or the little money they will ever make on the front end of their deal will be the only money they ever see. And that isn’t nearly as much as you might assume.

But what I really meant to say was that this is a fight about intellectual property. Who created it and what it’s worth to those who exploit it. The exploiters get paid both on the basis of their ability to maximize the product’s worth AND the value of the product itself. In perpetuity. The product’s originator fairly deserves to be kept in that equation. In perpetuity.

This is what the WGA does. It does not, regrettably, make sure that we all get 3 squares a day and all of our shots on time.

“My problem is that I feel like the WGA is using tactics that the general public associates with these types of labor movements while fudging to the public who is really going to benefit in the end.”

If I understand correctly, you’ve hinted before (here and on Nikki’s blog, under the handle “You’re losing me…”) that it’s the very richest and most powerful writers who are “really going to benefit in the end.” Would you care to explain that assertion? Because, to my mind, the very rich, very powerful writers are the ones with the least to gain in this fight. Those few mega-writers are able to negotiate their own contracts (including, if they’re truly powerful, a decent DVD residual rate, and a decent cut on new media exploitations of their work). This contract fight isn’t over maximums, it’s over minimums… which are of no use to the relatively-small number wealthy writers in our union, but are of use to the much larger number of working writers who reside at the bottom end of the scale.

As far as tactics go, the purpose of picketing and marching isn’t to hope to be mistaken for the working poor (who also happen to picket and march). The purpose of picketing and marching is to demonstrate, in a visual way, that you feel you are being treated unfairly (remember, please, that middle-class workers—which is what most WGA members are—can be treated unfairly, just as poor workers can), and to take your case directly to the public. Picketing is also a tactical tool intended to disrupt one’s employer’s production, so as to increase the economic pain suffered by the employer, and incentivize it to reach a deal quickly, and at terms favorable to the union. Maybe I have more faith in the American public than you do, but I think that when people see our marches and pickets, they process them on that level, and don’t assum for a second that we’re fighting for the right to make 7 beds an hour instead of 9.

“And I can’t believe it would be that hard to muster support among rich writers to pay for the poor writer’s health care considering the amazing job you’ve done of motivating widespread support against the AMPTP. But if you ever need someone to march for WGA Writers (or Studio and Agency employees) without Health Care, I will happily stand with you at the gates. I am just not sure whose gates we would be at.”

Listen, I think it’s an interesting idea. I think the WGA has its hands full at the moment, but after the strike, it might be a cause worth taking up, and, yeah, maybe I’ll see you at the gates then (whichever gates those might be). But, hey, if I’m standing at that gate looking for you, I’m gonna need to know who to look for. So what’s your name, what’s your occupation, and who do you work for?

My name is Patrick Meighan, I’m a writer for Family Guy, and I work for 20th Century Fox.

You?

Best,

Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA

I’m afraid to ask this question without getting stoned to death. I’m seriously not trolling but have been wondering about this possibility for a few weeks. And after I read an article in the LA Times by Patrick Goldstein the other day. (Not that he spoke of breaking unions,) it was the idea that people could start their own TV Shows/content on the net. And that got me to wondering what would happen if the strike went on, and on…. So, with some trepidation I ask:

If the strike goes on long enough is there a possibility of breaking the union?

I know there’s a slushpile of very bad writing by non wga “screenwriters.” But there’s also some good stuff that comes along via contests and what not. So i understand the argument that the real talent is already a part of the WGA. But what would that mean to the industry? To you WGA writers. Has this crossed anyone else’s mind or is the question anathematic?

Patrick wrote:

Because, to my mind, the very rich, very powerful writers are the ones with the least to gain in this fight.

I disagree, Patrick…at least as far as features go.

In features, residuals are tied to screen credit, but unlike television, it’s an all-or-nothing situation. Movie comes out, and somewhere between one and three people are getting screen credit, and there aren’t going to be any more episodes to even things out.

As such, the writers who stand to gain the most from an elevated residuals formula are the writers who see their names on movie after movie, year after year.

Those are the big winners.

Not the aspirants.

Not the writers with one credit to their name.

Not the writers who have sold a lot of pitches or gotten a lot of assignments.

In features, residuals tend to benefit the rich guys the most…in terms of total dollars.

Certainly, one can make a reasonable argument about the effect of relative dollars (a thousand dollars means more to some people than a hundred thousand means to others).

None of this, however, is particularly germane to the validity of the cause, here. I’m nowhere near as egalitarian as you. Hell, I’m a flat out elitist.

Still, I see my union as a group of people who ought to be pulling for better terms for successful writers (which is what residuals are), because I believe everyone in my union wants to be successful and is aiming high.

Setting floors (scale wages) is good. Raising ceilings (residual rates, which are only relevant to produced writers) is even better.

I think anathematic is probably a good word for how most people view this topic, atrabilious.

Look, no union is unbreakable. Nothing is unbreakable. The cost of breaking the union, however, would be astronomical, and I’m not sure how we’d ever get there.

And then even if it did somehow occur at insane cost to the producers, the death of one union would almost certainly give rise to the birth of another.

Craig, this conversation is actually getting intellectually interesting. Please close the comments and preserve it in amber before everyone starts throwing shit at each other as usual.

Clifford:

I know.

Hold me.

I’m going to keep deleting uncivil comments…and unsurprisingly, those are the ones with the least interesting substance.

Eric,

I don’t know that the product’s originator has a moral right to be kept into the equation forever. Though, I really don’t want to get into a debate over whose type of work product really does deserve ongoing after the fact payments and whose doesn’t. Plus, believe it or not, every studio actually agrees with you (even if they were serious about rollbacks, which they aren’t, no one is saying pay them nothing).

MLBPA is mostly just trying to point out that couching this in terms of typical labor union struggles versus management is disingenuous…and purposefully so. It’s a lot easier both for rank and file WGA members and the public to couch this as a fight for right (like the Hotel workers) as opposed to a fight for more money. Furthermore, it hurts the cause by getting writers who don’t understand the business riled up and mad as hell and, therefore, more likely to pass up a fair deal (i.e., act irrationally).

I think if both sides accepted they were just engaging in a business negotiation and stopped the cries for “fairness” or “respect”, then this would get done rather quickly. I believe that is what is happening.

Happy Thanksgiving, everyone. I, for one, am thankful for this forum.

Stooge

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone, even anonymous Alliance stooges.

I am now going to sign off and try to forget that the internet exists for the next four days, but I’m sure I’ll fail miserably, because I’m an internet addict, and it’s actually pretty bad, but that’s outside the purview of this forum.

In any event, Happy Thanksgiving, all.

Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA

Craig,

As a writer of a feature (or a show creator for that matter), can’t you also essentially negotiate those DVD residuals upwards, though? I’m pretty sure home video revenue is included in gross receipts for the purposes of calculating your share of MAG. Aren’t you essentially double-dipping?

I would argue that for TV writers, they live more off of development deals than residuals. Not sure though.

Stooge

In lean times, that is.

Stooge

“MLBPA is mostly just trying to point out that couching this in terms of typical labor union struggles versus management is disingenuous…and purposefully so.”

Like the Teamsters who are now having to fight for their jursdiction over alternative-fuel vehicles, the internet is simply a new market.

Its unfortunate that the wheel seems to be in need of reinventing.

But I agree - its only a matter of time before the revenue percentages start coming closer together among all parties involved. The question is how much time and how much pressure is needed in the meantime to make it so.

Patrick,

We clearly agree on most topics. Where we disagree (besides in putting our names on websites) is in what Craig mentioned above (i.e. who gains the most actual dollars via the current proposal) and whether the public understands this to be the case.

For example, did Akiva mention in his speech to thousands of working people that he stands to earn $2-3 (or whatever) million a year in residuals, and that if he were in IATSE it would go to the general membership health fund instead of a downpayment on Malibu real estate? Do they really understand that? If the very rich, very powerful writers don’t need this income, why are we still giving it to them? I just don’t see what is so hard about coming up with a more equitable and efficient way to distribute this revenue source to at least provide a higher rate of health care for the membership. And I do think that it is almost unheard of for extremely wealthy people to picket claiming solidarity with an important cause like the middle class, when what they are asking for mainly affects their own material gain. To me it seems like a lie of omission. I just pray that the general public understands the difference as well as you do so that this important tactic doesn’t lose its effectiveness. Honestly, you seem like a great friend of labor and I hope you get everything you want and more, but something about this aspect of the strike just seems unethical to me. But we can discuss this further after we all have a great Thanksgiving and hopefully a successful conclusion to negotiations.

A quick note. You are right (or I should say… I completely agree):

IATSE should strike their next contract too. Their contributions are being overlooked. But that’s for them to decide (not the WGA to be held responsible for).

Health care should be covered/subsidized in any union where there is a great disparity between the extremes of its membership.

But where you are incorrect (or… I disagree) is asserting that the ilk of Akiva (like we’re all on a first name basis) are the only benefactors. Its simply not true. He just benefits more, right now. In 5 years who knows. Every writer who gets work in the theater, on tv, on the web benefits the same percentages. What each writer’s starting financial point/quote is - that’s just the way of the film business. If you are saying that its business model is obscene - you are hardly alone. But so is the professional sports world, the real estate market, etc.

Just as when the Parade of Stars picket lines get all the attention (with Patrick Dempsey and Sally Field) - these big name writers get all the press. So its hardly as if the WGA is trying slip something by the public. If anything it has to fight for Joe Strummer Smith-Public to understand that a majority of its membership don’t reign over spreads boardering the Pacific ocean.

All the Thanksgiving cheer is cool. Its as if a massive labor strike wasn’t stepping on our collective throats.

I mean - Have a great Thanksgiving.

“If the very rich, very powerful writers don’t need this income, why are we still giving it to them?”

Sorry to sound cantankerous, MLBPA, especially on the heels of your “happy Thanksgiving” closer, but statements like this really irk the shit out of me. And for the record, I’m a decidedly non-rich, non-powerful writer (although one can always hope, I suppose).

“We” are not “giving” this money to these writers or anyone else. They are earning millions because they write movies that the general public pays hundreds of millions to see. And yes, any one of them adds a hell of a lot more money, in terms of raw dollars, to the Guild’s coffers than I do, or than I and any ten other writers with similar incomes do. Percentages are nice that way.

As for your suggestion that wealthy people are picketing while falsely “claiming solidarity with the middle class,” the simple, brutal fact of the matter is that the studios aren’t going to offer a better deal because they’re afraid of losing my services. Not today, perhaps not ever. But the fact that agreeing to a better deal for me and all the other writers like me is the only way for them to get back the services of the Goldsmans and Augusts and Koepps of the world, which are also being withheld from them until then, is one of the few reasons they’d be willing to make such a deal at all. (And the same is true of the showrunners who are withholding their services on the TV side.)

Realistically, John August could go back to work tomorrow (well, okay, Friday) and get a better deal than anything he’s likely to be guaranteed under the terms of the next MBA. The fact that he doesn’t do so sure looks like “solidarity with the middle class” to me….

Every year in this town someone is the flavor of the month, week, hour, second, minute, nanosecond. All will someday find they are out of favor, yesterdays’ darlings, living on their savings, and glad to be part of the guild that took them from indentured servitude to an honest living. Give thanks to those “schmucks with Underwoods” who came before us, those who made far less than the minimums that might seem so small to the high-end earners today, those who fought for us when writers got no residuals and were paid as little as possible for their hard efforts. And, when we return to the bargaining table, remember our betters not by making a deal that gives those who follow us table scraps, but a decent meal that is fair and just.

Happy Happy

Eric,

I never said Akiva (or his ilk) was the only benefactor. I just said, in actual dollars (nice distinction Craig, but spoken like a true big “R” Republican) he is a main benefactor of this movement. And yes, I am saying this business model is obscene; the only difference being that I have never seen a professional sports player or a real estate agent picketing on street corners to support it. Furthermore, if the WGA does not want the public to think that a majority of its membership doesn’t reign over spreads bordering the Pacific Ocean, a good place to start would be by not having those whose spreads actually do border the Pacific Ocean speak at their rallies. Or at least cop to the fact that this rally is primarily going to help them finance better spreads, with an ancillary benefit of possibly helping the middle class in some minimal way.

Pseudonymouse,

I didn’t mean to state that writers don’t earn those millions in a moral or technical sense, as they clearly do. I am just saying that if you believe that the rich should help the poor, there needs to be some sort of mechanism for the redistribution of wealth. Your argument somewhat reminds me of those who say that it is unfair that the top 1% of the population pays 60% of the taxes. Which sounds totally unfair until you realize that the top 1% also has 80% of the wealth. Also, I think it is important to make a clear distinction between merely striking and overtly picketing under the banner of helping the middle class. You will find no one who more readily agrees in collective bargaining than me and more power to the WGA for using that to its advantage. But do you really think that the only thing preventing the Goldsmans and Augusts and Koepps of the world from going to work on Friday is their willingness to sacrifice for the lower and middle class? What I am saying is if you want to march under that banner, you need the moral authority to back it up. And in my opinion, that comes from helping the people below you in a more direct manner.

MLBPA: Putting aside the moral aspects of coercive redistributive justice, which people have been debating for centuries and which won’t be resolved here on artfulwriter.com, there’s a realpolitik problem with the kind of policy you’re suggesting. If the WGA were to adapt this kind of program (and I’m not sure it could constitutionally), I’m pretty sure that the practical effect would be that most of the high earners secede and start their own union, leaving the WGA with much less income and much less power (since the high earners are the members who have the most power with management, since they’re the most sought-after workers).

But again, I do think that your analysis of the WGA’s inconsistent public stance is on target.

I just started reading the comments, but I gotta say… the whole ‘not a good turnout’ at the rally comment has got me stumped. I was at the rally. It was a HUGE turnout. It was AMAZING. And what absolutely blew me away were how MANY non-show biz unions had turned out. The SEIU, the Teamsters, the California Nurse’s Union, the Longshoreman’s Union, the Janitor’s Union, the Steelworkers Union, the Musician’s Guild. There were even viewers with homemade signs. In fact, the only union who wasn’t represented, who should have been there, was the DGA. So, to the people who are saying that there wasn’t a huge turnout, and that other unions weren’t there, all I can say is step away from the crackpipe, dude.

Clifford,

I would say that the debate over the moral aspects of coercive redistributive justice was settled in this country long ago (the campaign of Ron Paul notwithstanding.) Every day, we all manage to pay taxes to help those who are less fortunate without feeling a need to secede from the Union. Also, I don’t think it is nearly as hard as you suggest to affect this change on a practical level, as it seems clear to me that most of the high earners DO want to help the middle and lower class. This is my suggestion:

Every year, hold a massive rally (why should writers only get together in contract years?) that we will call the WGA 500. At this rally, the 500 highest earning WGA members of the previous year (counting ALL income from written work, i.e. no skimming out on the licensing Matt and Seth) walk up and drop their tax checks (sliding scale of course) into a big box that says “WGA Health Fund” on it. People can cheer, solemn speeches can be made and cute assistants from Shark can even serve drinks. Everybody can feel good about themselves and this way, maybe some talented writer who is having an unlucky year won’t be so stressed about not being able to earn $30k by March in order to get treated for their staph infection.

Now I don’t know how arduous a process it is to change the WGA constitution, but I assume that since we were able to get women the right to vote in this country that it might be possible. And if some wealthy, powerful writers still want to secede to start their own union, well then at least the SEIU, the Teamsters, the California Nurse’s Union, the Longshoreman’s Union, the Janitor’s Union, the Steelworkers Union and the Musician’s Guild will know who not to cheer next time around.

Wordsmith,

“I just started reading the comments, but I gotta say… the whole ‘not a good turnout’ at the rally comment has got me stumped. “

The Reporter’s the only source saying 1,500. Every other news source I’ve seen - including Variety - puts it at 4,000.

Hello, barren blog of little movement.

Since Monday is coming, and this dispute is beginning to end, was the strike worth it all for your increases in Internet/DVD residual adjudications? It seems many in this dispute forgot a business structure that seems profitable: one that is inspired by Trey Parker and Matt Stone.

Yes fellow denizens of the arts, it is the Cartmanland approach. For those not in the know, it states that a succesfull business is one in which you don’t allow anyone to add to your payload. That is to say, you may have a restauraunt and allow no person to come in, thereby increasing your wealth and your assets. Apparently, it works wonders in your community, as exemplified with MGM.

You see, the moguls will ride out any dispute, knowing that they could just sell the library and not pay for new product; in other measures, the service industry. Yet, with things in the international/economic front what they are and will be, perhaps the sides need each other to entail the times ahead.

What are you left with then, in your quest for payments? I would suggest a 1.0% increase in payments for Internet and DVD, increased to 2.0% after 100,000 hits or copies, then 3.0% after 200,000 hits or copies, then 4.0% in this field, etc. Seems fair, and reasonable to all. The question remains: at what cost?

Hoping for a response,

Lax24

Actually, if you look at the reporting of the Hollywood rally, you see numbers ranging from 1500 to 4000 (like this BBC News piece which uses that entire range). Some news outlets are using the WGA numbers, some police estimates, and most are probably just reporting what they saw other reporters report and don’t know where the number came from.

In any case, your view of the event probably depends on where you were standing, both figuratively and literally. It certainly shut down traffic in the area and got some news coverage, which seemed to the be the point.

Brian! Brian McCabe! Haven’t talked to you in ages!

How was Thanksgiving? Did you spend it with family, friends, or both?

What kind of stuffing do you prefer? How about the cranberries: canned jellied, canned whole berry, or homemade?

(Help me out, dude, I need support from my sponsor… before I lose my head again….)

Since Josh Olson hasn’t posted yet, I just want to point out the obvious: LAX24 is a AMPTP-planted stooge, who is spreading disinformation in order to deliberate fan dissent, and it’s all because of Craig’s ego.

I am (was) a working writer who has been picketing regularly every week.

Before the big Hollywood rally, an email from the WGA requesting “crowd control trainees” indicated that they were expecting 5,000 to 10,000 people at the rally, so the 4,000 estimated is much less than expected.

Just a reminder that this was, after all, a holiday week. I know that a few members of my strike team had already left town before the rally; probably many others did as well, which would of course affect the overall attendance.

That being said, there were a hell of a lot of people there.

It’s been fascinating to observe the discussions here - thanks Craig (and Ted) for making this forum possible.

I’d like to step away from the redistribution of wealth within the guild for a moment, if I may, to ask a question about residuals. (And I apologise if it’s been raised and addressed before).

The contract you sign with an AMPTP member gives the studio “universal rights” to produce and distribute, in any form, any product of the writers work covered by that contract. Why, then, aren’t residuals equally universal? Why should it matter whether the product is shown in a theatre or on television or iPod download or whatever the next wave of technology permits?

If the studios want universal right to use the product of our work, universal residuals seem a fair and reasonable price.

Of course, there’s not much chance the studios would go for it since it would eat into the sick profit margin they generate from those alternative revenue streams, but it nevertheless seems to me that this should be the basis of any residuals argument on the part of the Guild.

Hello there, any blogger still here!

Clifford, you seem to hit a point regarding any wriiten response from Josh. And you are mainly correct, excepting what and who I am. To note, I am not a “stooge”, nor am I paid by said mogul interests. As well, claiming an attendance record when in truth less than expected showed up is, well, error-proned.

Let me adress these two ideals as follows: why is it that any time a person essentially has made the decision to state the socio-economic-political fallout from this dispute, said person is considered a “stooge” spouting “disinformation?” This is a rather childish response from individuals such as Josh that, in my view, is no different than covering up your ears, and obnouxiously spouting “I can’t hear you, la la la!” At worst, that person is lying to himself willingly; which, as Bill Maher once pointed out, are the biggest lies known to anyone. Now then, in regard to the rallying on Tuesday, less came than expected. You do not suppose that people are getting tired of this posturing, and have begun to return to their works, right? Perhaps so, which brings me to this next occurance.

Film will always triumph over televison in all forms, because television is dumb. I realize I just paraphrased a line from “Spaceballs”, perhaps the most recent time I felt humor in a Mel Brooks film (exceptioning “Life Stinks”)due in part to the assistance of Ronny Graham and Tom Meehan in writing the script. Yet, this is true, as can now be seen in the current paradigm.

The writers can expect two succinct processes coming Monday: first, the beginnings of a new agreement to be reached as early as Monday and no later than next weekend. However, while the film writers are relatively unscathed, television is a different beast altogether. For example, NBC is expected to now do television programming on the fly, deliberately. You see, Jeff Zucker holds grudges; serious, long-term, never forget that time grudges. He does hold two cards in his wake: work at NBC News, and surviving cancer. Oh dear; this may not be pretty. And it starts in the wake of ending the strike; Journeyman is gone, not to be shown again; Scrubs is gone before its time; Heroes (a series I am not fond of) is gone as well. Indeed, everthing on NBC, considering Zucker’s grudge, may be cancelled permanently. Same is true for Fox, or should I say, Fremantle USA (it has happened, you know.) Possibly other televison projects are to follow.

Heck, I keep hearing from other viewers and politically-minded folk to place classic television (roughly Golden Age to post-immediate Tartikoff) on the networks in place of what is now on. That might work! Considering the dreck usually on (except Lost, The Simpsons, and The Unit.) You may be looking at the proverbial end of structured television, to be replaced at best by a BBC approach. At worst? Two words from Rob Reiner’s “Spinal Tap” come to mind, and it is not shark sandwich.

And today, on the Malibu shores, wildfires are at it again, with little to help for the long haul. Just as well, plans and rumors of war and depression and loss are occuring at a rapid, and exceedingly realistic approach. Television has, indeed, become more involved with news and sports over the past six years, with more to come. So, again I ask, was it worth it ? Did the writers really need to strike, and thereby have all sides become ireevelant and destructive?

I suggest those not aware go seek the great anime film “Akira.” In point of fact, notice what occurs when emotionally distraught people seek wanton and needless destruction on all peoples; represented in the film by the main character turning into a literally destructive baby. And as we all know, that behavior is not tolerated by anyone, definitely not tolerable under intelligent spectrums. We all have seen this happen recently; whom amongst those in this dispute can transform from babies to men? I do not know, but rest assured, you do.

Peace and well wishes,

Lax24

And while we’re on the subject…

`Twas brillig, and the slithy toves Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: All mimsy were the borogoves, And the mome raths outgrabe.

“Beware the Jabberwock, my son! The jaws that bite, the claws that catch! Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun The frumious Bandersnatch!”

He took his vorpal sword in hand: Long time the manxome foe he sought — So rested he by the Tumtum tree, And stood awhile in thought.

And, as in uffish thought he stood, The Jabberwock, with eyes of flame, Came whiffling through the tulgey wood, And burbled as it came!

One, two! One, two! And through and through The vorpal blade went snicker-snack! He left it dead, and with its head He went galumphing back.

“And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!’ He chortled in his joy.

`Twas brillig, and the slithy toves Did gyre and gimble in the wabe; All mimsy were the borogoves, And the mome raths outgrabe.

I’ved worked alongside many a Teamsters.

Of course, doing so while working construction to put me through film school…you don’t let them know you’re actually going to film school.

You show up for work and work hard and don’t bitch or moan.

So, the Teamster’s comments about “…quit acting like pussies…” is right on the nose.

Especially after reading a lot of comments by a lot of writers these past few weeks.

The WGA — like any union, and like unions were originally meant to be — is ony as strong as all members start making tough sacrifices for the future…and not the past few weeks or the next few weeks.

So… stick it to the man - studios…keep walking the line and don’t stop until you get what you need for a healthy future.

Believe me…striking WGA members won’t be the first or last striking union workers to starve while walking the lines.

MARK11

Stuiec -

That was awesome — best use of Jabberwocky ever. And so much more intelligible than what preceded it, I am at a loss for words.

If Zucker cancels all his scripted shows because he’s holding a grudge, I’m sure someone else will jump to pick them up.

I don’t know what elitist rock you’ve been slithering under LAX24, or why you’d choose to work in television given your low opinion of it, but some of the best writing happens on the small screen. Mainly because writers have more control over their shows and don’t have to deal as much with development people.

Thanks for letting investors know that Zucker is more than willing to hurt his own network and have NBC take the financial hit, if it means getting even with writers who had the balls to stand up for themselves. I wonder how that’s going to go over with the guys at GE?

NBC used to be such a good network. But I guess we’ll have to get used to five nights of the Gladiator reality show. Since, according to you, Zucker’s going to nurse his grudges ad infinitum, cancel all of his scripted shows and apparently, blacklist all his show runners.

Yeah. No wonder the writers are on strike. No wonder NBC is no longer the network it once was. Thanks, LAX24, for that look into the underbelly of NBC/GE.