Not A Word
It appeared in Variety yesterday.
If you’re a WGAw screenwriter, you can still add your name to the online version.
When I was asked to sign this, I did offer a full disclosure that I could theoretically provide A-H exceptions over the course of the next two weeks (although so far, we’ve been bang on script).
This did not deter them from including my name, which makes me happy, because I will, in fact, be entirely “not a word” in two weeks no matter what.
The WGAE also ran an ad that you can see here.
Thanks for signing it, Craig.
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
Spoke to a director and WGAw member at the rally. He said he’s considering not shooting pick-ups for his film even though he’s been threatened with legal action.
I hope he stands with the showrunners and others who are the heroes and not with Craig. But if he does shoot his pick-ups, as he said himself, it’s because he’s a coward.
The reason I thought I’d share this is because I wail on Craig about his lack of true support. (Actions speak louder than words.) But now I’m beginning to realize, it’s more that he won’t just admit his real problem.
This director, more high profile than Craig, didn’t try to hide behind his “contractual obligations,” but knew in his heart it was a moral decision and that he might not take the heroic path, but the cowardly path.
Thank God for the heroes and right now they’re the showrunners. On the other hand, Craig, I finally heard the emotional turmoil a writer/director goes through before making this decision. And it made a impact because there was no rationalization going on.
Anyway, hope both sides come together and talk this weekend.
“This did not deter them from including my name, which makes me happy, because I will, in fact, be entirely “not a word” in two weeks no matter what.”
I’m not sure what this means. Are you saying that you have two more weeks during which you may need to provide A-H exceptions, and after that you’re not writing anything? Or-?
Thanks for signing.
Am I the only one who finds a disconnect between someone who hides behind “Anonymous” and yet criticizes others for not having courage to take a stand?
And, puh-lease, as much as I admire and salute the showrunners who are taking a stand - a stand I totally support - let’s not start using the word “heroes”…
Craig, I know it’s tempting to drop-in and put your two-cents in, but, you’re really just gonna get lit-up, here. When you “went missing” for awhile, the witch hunters cooled off. Probably best to keep things like, “I will, in fact, be entirely not a word, in two weeks no matter what”, to yourself. Two weeks is a lifetime to a lot of folks out here.
Am I the only one who finds a disconnect between someone who hides behind �Anonymous� and yet criticizes others for not having courage to take a stand?
Man’s got a point.
There are far too many Anonymouses on this blog.
Yes. Anonymous is evil.
I’ll admit that I spent the days before the Strike trying to figure out how I could keep my projects moving forward without technically breaking any rules or losing sight of my personal moral compass. Now that I’ve been out there on the picket lines every day, I have a better understanding not only of what we’re doing and why but HOW to make it work.
I was reluctant to picket at first. I believed that stopping work was the only obligation I had to my Guild. I resented the fact that someone called my house and said “You will be picketing [here].” I decided to walk the line on Monday only because it was a new experience where I might learn something. And did I ever.
I’ve been out there every day since — sometimes leading the chants. It’s been fun, exciting and invigorating every single time. And today’s rally at Fox was indeed a sight to see and a thing to feel.
One week ago, I was making a list of the matinee showings of movies I’d catch up on during the Strike. Now I’m writing Strike related song parodies so the picketers with guitars can play something fun for us to sing along to. Check out http://quirkysituationswga.blogspot.com for the few I’ve come up with so far. More on the way. Tell your fellow picketers, print ‘em up and have some fun.
Thanks for linking us to Not A Word, Craig. We’re all showing support in the best way we know how, A-H exceptions or not.
Much love…
‘Not a word” is an impossibility
Craig, a writer writes, on paper or memory, day in and day out, on the “job” and off of it. To utter the “not a word” scenario is, shall I say, a logical fallacy. You see, to proclaim “not a word”, you would need to stop writing, which would mean to stop thinking, which would mean to stop doing anything, which would mean to cease being human. Now, granted this is a literal posit, yet it makes a heck of a lot more sense than “not a word”, which is in your blood.
Writing is an addiction, one that is beneficial and cannot be “cured”, so to speak. In fact, people can be addicted to a lot of things not drug-related. Writing, chaos, video games, computers, feet fetishes, sexual proclivity on oneself, job single-mindedness, sports, and a whole slew of other things “Intervention” can not touch due to lack of medical research.
One other addiction is poverty. By that, I do not refer to accumulating more wealth; rather, it is claiming and acting like nothing has been given in finances to you that complaints, however legitimate, may continue even when security is at hand. In a way, it also allots for certain benefits are willingly not prefered due to whatever reasons are given.
Folks, this idea of poverty addiction causes all public statements by writers related to their jobs to be lost on your part. The public will, and does, see actions taken by writers and several things are engrained. First, the public will and does resent the claims of no money by any creative force: they will always compare your monetary wealth to their own or those actually living below the poverty line. Yes, there are those writers that are poor, yet no one speaks about them, not even the WGA leadership; only when it is deemed convenient will they speak, and then forget as soon as they spoke.
Second, all the public cares about is if their favorite programs (television, not film) will be shown at a timely manner, regardless of technological derivatives. To the public, when they hear about these compensation issues for online, they do not think about your wants for an increase. No, they wonder if this will increase what the public will have to pay for these endeavors, either through a new fee or an increase in pay. The public will not go for that, instead relying on free alternatives that are available.
Third, unfortunately a great deal of the public are conservatives who want their conservative programming. To these people, any criticism of their idols is tantamount to blasphemy. Frankly, these people do not look outside their gates. They especially hate political art, wheras I enjoy it immensely (e.g., Tom Morello.)
Fourth, and perhaps most damning, the public will wonder why certain individuals claim to have wealth but cry poverty. The public then will and does ask questions regarding personal finances, looking for a reason to back their claims. Sadly, they could be right in this department. I think back to the 1998 NBA lockout, when some multi-millionaire stars were pleading for greater money. Unfortunately, the results of the players seeking greater wealth were destroyed when one interview went public with a player whose name I forget. Anyway, that player stated that he needed a $2 million increase from his $12 million seasonal pay due to obtaining a second mortage on his second house, back-pay child alimony over a year’s worth that was not payable, exorbitant fees for attorney privileges relating to his divorce and child support, and paying seven different Mercedes-Benz cars and suv’s that he bought within a year. Needless to say, among other things the player said he needed, the public seemed to turn their backs against the players, essentially saying “you should have thought about these things before you spent your money like water.”
The public could likely, and already has in some respect, turn against writers and those “on strike” by asking why they need the presumably million or so increase from their already told millions in profits and net worth, especially the richer ones. If they hear publically what they think is the reasons (child alimony, expensive cars, too much partying, divorce settlements, expensive entourages, home renovations for minute reasons, blackmail from certain figures, drug money, the inability to save money), they will not sternly criticize the moguls, nor the governemnt, nor the Federal Reserve. Blame will be shifted onto the ones in complaint; sadly, some might be deserving in scorn, I’m just not certain who.
You guys have lost the PR war on this front. Look what has come done: 24 is cancelled I think), K-Ville is cancelled (I am sure), Fox essentially has told most programming to “screw all y’alls”, CBS is in the process of suing all their showrunners, NBC is telling the makers of “The Office” to essentially leave the premises, Heroes is near cancellation, the bigwigs who are in SAG and the DGA will not follow through on labor measures (do not bet on Tom Cruise walking the picket line, ever), the Teamsters are in legal knots with these issues, and now, the public does not care, unless they find evidence of supporting their claims of writers positioning poverty addiction.
And as I stated yesterday, you lost the support of Michael Rivero, which essentially means you have lost the support of the politically active internet populace. So what is next, months and years off, stubborness in all sides, dick-measuring beyond repute, no public support at all (and if there is support, only tacit approval on intention, not execution?) As an anonymous poster offered, if you cannot deal with the corporate mogul stratus, get a divorce. You material will always survive and thrive on the internet, movies, DVD, recording industry, and on-demand. Yet the moguls come to you instead of you coming to them.
However, if you need the money, and you need it now for reasons legitimate (the below-the-line workers) or skewed (potentail public hating ideals mentioned above), then negotiate an agreement which, rest assured, would be similar to the ones initially offered on all sides. As SML stated, a caving will happen; why not save the trouble and declare a detente of peace now than drag everyone to the ground. Please consider these ideals I have posted in the past few days (I know some may not want to comment on my posts but interactivity always helps), for the public, unlike in the past, will not and now has no intention of coming back. You all need each other in the end of this mess.
Waiting for comments patiently,
Lax24
[deleted per Priya…folks, follow the rules]
calling a showruner a Hero - whose typical income far exceeds most mortals is a tad idiotic and IMO flag-wavingly divisive.
Show me someone who has everything to lose who makes a decision to stand for what is right. Then call them Gandhi. But stop acting as the judge and jury to those who do or don’t appear to do your will. Please.
Yes, you have every right to say so, but you sound like someone who’s never been thru a strike. I have been through 2. The last and one that involved a lot of violence when I was a truck driver about a hundred years ago. But my point is - How in the hell do you know what is in someone’s heart? And why must you hide behind anonymity?
In the big picture film making is not brain surgery. And yet it attracts some of the most talented people I have ever worked with. They have a passion for their work that drives their decisions. Decisions that are made for creative, personal and financial reasons. Maybe they do it for the thrill of creating something that comes from god knows where. (I write music. My writing comes from god knows where.) To me that’s a thrill.
For the record, I think it can only help the cause when the showrunner pickets. But I don’t hail them as heroes.
Hi! So, you know what’s funny? I’m me. Yet, another me posted. A me that wasn’t me. A not-me me.
I’m very flattered. Thanks Not-Me Me!
Showrunners and others are facing legal action for breaking their contracts. That’s the greatest sacrifice anyone of us could make. They’re putting their money where there mouth is… they’re saying, like Steve Carell, the WGA’s future is worth it. They are risking their million dollar salaries for the masses.
And maybe you believe this is their obligation as WGA members. But as Craig and Ellen have proven, there is a choice.
They’ve chosen to really fight for what they believe in.
And for that, they are heroes.
LAX24, I know I shouldn’t be feeding the monkey. But could you please share some of that dope.
Craig, you must be saying that you’re shooting in two weeks. Obviously the strike already started. But, Craig, if you were saying you were going to spend the next two weeks writing and signed the sheet, well I’d say you’re hilarious in the most absurd fashion possible.
And, can I just suggest to all the haters and whiners, why not start thinking of solutions. I.E. — what can we as a community do to win this war? Trust me, pressuring Craig isn’t the winning way. There are other, more creative avenues.
For example, shooting something funny about the strike. Agitprop is the right term. Words only go so far, we’re in a multi-media platform, bust it out.
Regular Joe
Lax24,
“As SML stated, a caving will happen; why not save the trouble and declare a detente of peace now than drag everyone to the ground. “
The WGA has effectively declared a detente, my man. The AMPTP is not responding in kind. Not yet.
The WGA has not only extended a giant olive branch (the DVD resids), but it is applying effective, painful pressure (something that was missing from the ‘88 strike). K-VILLE the nets can stand to lose, but 24. That hurts Fox more than it hurts the writers.
I asked a question: If we’re going to cave anyway, why not cave now?
I was not implying that we should cave; I was implying that if this strike turns into a 5-month or longer war, we will cave (and I still believe that).
But the WGA seems to be giving this a real shot. So I will support them faithfully until I’m proven right (and, for once in my life, I don’t want to be right).
Here’s a thought, Regular Joe. How about petitioning CALPERS to divest its entertainment stocks? Even if we couldn’t appeal to the activist streak of its board, we might be able to convince them that they should think twice about continuing to invest in giant entertainment companies who publicly declare that they can’t figure out how to make money on the internet. :)
I signed that but my name is misspelled. I’m trying to figure out the ramifications.
It’s an awkward situation for us non-WGA guys and gals who are in the middle of getting our first deals. (Feature)
I’ve toiled ten years in this business and am just now ready to enjoy some well deserved success…only to find myself in the midst of a huge strike situation…and because I’m NOT a part of the union, in a very difficult position. There are a lot of militant people on this blog and out on the streets and I feel that if someone has existing work that was in development, written and headed toward production with an indie (non sig) company they should not be pilloried for following their dream.
For many of us the opportunity to make a movie is a dream come true and I have a huge issue with a union that I’m not yet a part of, might black list me because I am realizing my dream.
I’m not going to stare across the room at producers who are my friends and with whom I’ve been working with for over a year. People who have given me a shot and say, ‘sorry thanks for all the hard work and believing in me but I’m not going to able to work until this over…’
And let me remind before the flames start. I’m NOT WRITING. I’m talking about making a film that I WROTE (pre strike) and is financed outside the studio system by a non-sig company.
It’s hard to make a movie in this town, it’s hard to make a buck in this town and I just don’t see how the regular person who is not yet financially well off, (someone in my position) can honestly walk away from meetings, deal-making and all other activities that are not actually WRITING…
Picketing this weekend? I’ve heard some projects shoot on weekends, sometimes.
Craig should be hunted down and crucified for doing what he is doing. I put him in the same category as Hitler, and should be dealt with as such. Let’s everyone band together and attack Craig until he kills himself in his bunker where he is filming his movie!
And until he gives me all his money, I will not feel he is supporting the strike to my satisfaction. He must SUFFER!!!!!!!
By the way, I have decided that I am moral authority on all that is good and right, so if you have any questions, please feel free to ask.
Nowhere did Craig imply that he was going to be writing for another two weeks. I believe he’s already started shooting so I think he meant he will be doing A-H work for another two weeks and then be wrapped.
Anonymous Bosch,
You’re in a shitty situation. No doubt. But your movie will get made and your talent recognized. 10 years is a long time to wait, but what’s another two months in support of your fellow filmmakers.
And, btw, if your film is being made by a non-sig the WGA has no “black listing” rights. But if you chose to do this, you can’t come here and ask us not to be mad. We have dreams that we are sacrificing for our fellow filmmakers. Don’t forget that.
Uh, I’m guessing that’s not Tim W. posting up there. Oh, and this is me me, not Not-Me Me.
Priya,
He was joshing. Nice. Double meaning.
Craig —
Could you clarify this part:
“When I was asked to sign this, I did offer a full disclosure that I could theoretically provide A-H exceptions over the course of the next two weeks (although so far, we’ve been bang on script).”
When you say “so far,” it’s a bit foggy. Does it mean you would/could/may rewrite the script if the reason was compelling enough?
In light of the writer’s strike, let’s sit back and hear Harlan Ellison’s gentle critique of the Hollywood system: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj5IV23g-fE
So… is this kind of like “I’ve broken up with my loser boyfriend! For good this time. I just need two weeks to move my stuff out of his apartment, and then absolutely no more sex will transpire!”?
SML,
I’m about 95% sure that’s not Tim W. Just like I’m 100% sure the poster who posted #9 is not me.
Craig or Ted or Denise could verify the IP addresses, though.
Priya,
Even if he’s not the real Tim W. he was not being serious. And if he was being serious, well, he did a poor job of it.
Priya,
Also when somebody calls somebody Hitler, it’s usually a joke.
Oh, SML. You haven’t spend enough time on the internet if you think that’s true.
I think i speak for many american’s when i say COME TO A DEAL ALREADY! i WANT MY FUCKING SHOWS BACK!!! Then seanate just aproved a tourturing maniac as attorney genarl and we have no daily show to lampoon it! Jesus!
SML,
It’s not the text that concerns me — he could have said, “SML eats embryos,” for all I care. It’s the posting under other people’s handles that’s irksome. Like, you know, #9. It’s especially irksome, when, you know, some of us post under our real names.
Lax24: Some of us (at the European end of things) weary of your endless empty sophistry.
Kindly do us the courtesy to BUTT OUT. (And having said as much — because it is always perilous to feed the trolls — can we all,all the rest of us, just send this nuisance to Coventry? Thanks.)
(mutter)
“When you say “so far,” it’s a bit foggy. Does it mean you would/could/may rewrite the script if the reason was compelling enough?”
It looks pretty simple to me. He said, theoretically, he might have A-H exemptions to file for the next two weeks, but, “so far” he hasn’t needed any [exemptions, which is to say the theoretical wound up unneccessary] because they’ve stuck to the script.
32 isn’t it obvious 90% of the WGA is Republican and this is just a ploy to get the Daily Show off the air.
Really, Bosch, I think you need to speak with your representatives about whether or not your actions constitute any form of strike-breaking and could result in any negative results from the WGA. As my lawyer has explained it to me, if you’re non-Guild, if the production company is non-Guild, and if there’s nothing going on in the contract that would ever make the production into a Guild production, you’re 100% free and clear. I’m doing a movie with a British production company, and it’s governed by British rules. Before the strike the WGA had no jurisdiction over it, so during the strike the WGA has no jurisdiction. We’re shooting in Britain with (mostly) British money.
Ask your lawyer, agent, and/or manager to clarify things for you, but I don’t think anyone can talk ill of someone who isn’t in the Guild doing work for a company that isn’t struck. Just because it’s in the same industry doesn’t mean that it falls under the same rules.
the showrunners are heroic to me.
they are the public face, sacrificing a lot and key to what has create a killer first week to the strike.
i hear the otherside is pretty freaked and stunned at the solidarity and cocaphony and disruption this week.
the rally today was lovely. Highlights: Seth Mc Farland’s hilarious speech, norman lear, the guys from reno 911, CAA passing out churros, paul haggis laying in the street with many other writers to spell out WGA in the street with their bodies, the great attitude of the real cops, all ‘the office’ folks…
I don’t know numbers, but it def seemed like more people than the convention center.
Unlikely protaganist against unsurmountable odds? We write this story every damn day!
Yes, it was me. I figured a bunch of writers would be able to get the sarcasm. Apparently I was wrong.
Although Verrone’s final bit during the speeches today was funny, with the “First they came for the animation writers, and I wasn’t an animation writer, so I didn’t speak out, and then they came for the reality writers, and I wasn’t a…” yadda yadda, is anyone else uncomfortable that he was repurposing a piece of prose that was originally written by Pastor Niemöller about the Nazis and the Holocaust? I know it’s been repeated often for causes that are far less serious than ours, but somehow it feels a little tawdry, as if we’re comparing this whole thing to living in Nazi Germany which, y’know, it ain’t.
Nope. Thinking does not result in intellectual property. Writing does. If you’re not creating intellectual property, then whatever you’re doing, it’s not writing, as that word is meant in the context of the MBA and the Writers Guild and as its commonly used.
Hey, go easy on Craig - what the world needs more than ever is more spoof movies! That’s the most challenging type of humor to write. He can’t be bothered picketing or being expected to adhere to the rules the rest of us are held to.
Well, I’m not doing NO writing. I’ve already started writing on my new book “WALKING IN CIRCLES: The Absolutely True Adventures of a Screenwriter on Strike”
Anon Bosch:
If it’s non-union it’s a non-problem. The strike is really against the corporations. My guess, your flick is not going to make in a megaplex. So what’s the problem? I don’t see any.
Reg Joe
Is Jerry Seinfeld WGA?
Understandably, not every WGA writer had an opportunity to sign before the ad deadline, but his absence from the list would seem to confirm that he and Mrs. Seinfeld will continue to co-adapt her cookbook “Shut Up America And We’ll Tell You What To Feed Your Fat, Fucking Family.”
Dreamworks has slated the pic for a July, 2011 release.
Although Verrone’s final bit during the speeches today was funny, with the “First they came for the animation writers, and I wasn’t an animation writer, so I didn’t speak out, and then they came for the reality writers, and I wasn’t a” yadda yadda, is anyone else uncomfortable that he was repurposing a piece of prose that was originally written by Pastor Niemuller about the Nazis and the Holocaust?
Did he really say that? What a clown. Not only is the Nazi overlay stupid (seriously, who outside of high school makes that analogy), but nobody came for animation writers. Until ten years ago, an animation writer would have had to set him or herself on fire in the lobby of the WGA building to be noticed by the Writers Guild. It was a jurisdiction the WGA couldn’t be bothered with, so it’s been covered by another union for the last six decades.
You don’t win friends and influence people this way, Patric.
Tim W. , apologies. It didn’t sound like you and since #9 didn’t sound like me, it rendered my Sarcasm Radar® faulty.
Does that include no directing and producing for WGA members
Priya,
Is that you? Really? I don’t think it’s you. I thought #9 was you.
:)
I don’t think Writers should stop ALL writing - they just shouldn’t be writing for struck companies.
In fact, I think Writers should start writing specs for Themselve. Do something constructive in case the Strike goes on for awhile.
If you’re suffering because you’re sacrificing for what you believe in, awesome, but suffering for suffering’s sake is…just masochism.
I don’t even know who I am anymore, SML, so it’s entirely possible that was Not-Me Me.
That’s exactly right.
Let’s see if my whole post makes it through this time:
Does the strike mean WGA members can not direct or produce either? Because I’m on a job right now where a WGA member is directing.
Are you WGA members who walk the line opposed to we worker bees joining your strike line? I ask this, because I am required to report to work under our contract, but would very much like to support your effort in negotiating a better wage. I feel it is important for all crafts and guilds and teamsters to speak with one voice in times like these. So, I ask you, can I join your line during my lunch hour?
I’ve been shooting since September. There are only two weeks of shooting left. The strike happened deep into my production schedule.
No, I can’t rewrite the script, as the term is typically understood. A-H exceptions are not considered writing (they’re excluded as such in our MBA).
They include things like cutting for time, reassigning dialogue from one actor to another, “casual, minor changes in dialogue,” which I take to mean stuff like changing “Oh God, I’m shot!” to “Oh no, I’m shot!”, etc.
That sort of stuff isn’t considered writing by our agreements, isn’t subject to WGA contracts, doesn’t require membership in the WGA, etc.
Worker Bee 54,
Yes. Join the line.
Worker Bee 53,
If he’s directing he’s covered under the DGA’s contract and is most likely a dual member. So, like you, is under legal contract to direct (but not to write).
“Does the strike mean WGA members can not direct or produce either? Because I’m on a job right now where a WGA member is directing.”
They can. They just can’t write (aside from the A-H exceptions, though there has been some controversy about that).
Some members have chosen to not produce or direct during the strike, but that’s a decision each member in the situation is making on his/her own depending on his/her personal feelings or philosophy.
No, it’s more like “I’ve broken up with my loser boyfriend. I just need two weeks to move my stuff out of his apartment, and during that time, I’ll say stuff like “Hi” and “Goodbye” and “Whatever” to him, and then I won’t talk to him at all again until he agrees to stop beating me.”
I’m not asking for forgiveness in advance. I’ve made my bed and I fully intend to sleep in it.
However, I do believe that it’s impossible to stop any and all ‘business’ from happening. If that puts me in the Mazin camp, so be it.
Especially because I’m not even IN the damn union yet.
I’ve walked the line. I will continue to walk to line but I will also direct the movie I wrote, regardless of who it may, or may not, piss off. I do have the blessing of not having to cross any lines to make my movie and I wouldn’t if I had to.
My comments were prompted by the ‘Not a word’ missive, which I just don’t think is reasonable. Writers write. Quod Scripsi Scripsi.
Adding to Craig’s assesment…
“…and like all battered women I will stay away until he shows me the slightest bit of love and will cave because I think it will be good for my children to have a man in their life…”
Actors and directors who are also WGA members have been ordered by their own unions to report to work…so it’s more than just that they can, but, in fact, they should.
To all WGA members out of work and walking the strike line:
Best of luck with your strike action. I believe you will win, especially given the economic and political tone in this country right now. Do not give up, do not back down, stand up for all of us in our desire for negotiating a better wage.
It’s high time the fat cats shared some of their kibble.
Craig,
“Actors and directors who are also WGA members have been ordered by their own unions to report to work…so it’s more than just that they can, but, in fact, they should.”
You’re begging Josh to spank you. You like it don’t you?
The reasonable posters here support your decision to work and support your right to perform A-H duties.
But a statement like this mocks the efforts of the Showrunners, Actors, and others who have chosen differently than you.
Although it may be a legal fact, the morals of this situation are not black and white.
I post anonymously because this board is full of a-holes and my kid has already been threatened. Even Craig can identify with that and, as I said, he likes the traffic here. My posts are one of the top ones to get responses from you guys.
Go to the picket lines and I’ll be glad to explain my side of the story. I’m no moral authority, but I have an opinion. It’s not the same as yours, but it still valid. Grow up and get out there and talk to real people.
At this point, I can’t go to this site every day, so, if I don’t write back, don’t be pissed.
Anon 65,
I have no idea who you or your posts are… so see you later…
Basking in the success of Bee Movie (only 7 out of 9 children said they hated it), Dreamworks has begun extensive story preparations on “Bee Movie 2: Terminus.”
“Children between the ages of five and ten were especially taken by the story of a bee who initiates a legal proceeding in a court of law,” said Dreamworks Animation spokesperson Greta Muns. “Sit in the front of the theater and glance back at the little kids’ faces when Winnie the Pooh gets shot with that tranquilizer dart. They don’t understand it, and it’s adorable.”
With this next story, Jerry Seinfeld and his corporate partners plan to stay with an Amblin-style sense of wonder. After a massive die-off in the hive kills millions of bees, a drone coroner (NBC’s Brian Williams) discovers that the latex gloves worn by a bungling beekeeper (James Cromwell) are causing bee cancer.
Said Muns, “We always start with a title and go from there. The writing part is easy.”
SML:
I’m not trying mock anyone. I just don’t agree with them on this. I think we weaken our position by urging our members to violate legal contracts.
If that’s not a popular opinion, so be it. I stand by it.
“Did he really say that? What a clown. Not only is the Nazi overlay stupid (seriously, who outside of high school makes that analogy), but nobody came for animation writers.”
That same analogy was used recently on Desperate Housewives by one of the new gay characters in an attempt to convince his neighbors to stand up for his right to have an ugly, noisy fountain thing in his yard.
“Actors and directors who are also WGA members have been ordered by their own unions to report to work…so it’s more than just that they can, but, in fact, they should.”
I get it — you’re just following orders.
“I think we weaken our position by urging our members to violate legal contracts. If that’s not a popular opinion, so be it. I stand by it.”
Could you at least explain your opinion?
I know you’ve made your choice, as it applies to you, and I’m done trying to urge you to do otherwise. But I don’t understand how the WGA’s position is weakened when, say, Seth MacFarlane does as you have not done and refuses to work for a guild-struck company (despite belonging to another guild, in addition to the WGA). In Seth’s case, of course, he has refused to honor his SAG obligation to give voice to his animated characters, thus blocking the completion of several original episodes of “Family Guy” and “American Dad”… episodes which Fox had counted on airing during the strike. It seems to me that Seth’s choice inflicts a fair amount of financial harm upon the studios, thus handing the WGA negotiators that much more bargaining leverage (leverage of the sort that you, for your own reasons, have chosen not to contribute, though your situations as dual-guild members are very similar). In short, it seems to me that Seth has strengthened our position.
It’s true, as you’ve insisted, that you have every legal and organizational right to continue to work for a struck company. Fine. Now could you please explain to us how Seth is “weakening” the WGA’s position by refusing to work for a struck company?
Thanks in advance,
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
I’ve been kinda impressed with the site, Craig; I just found it recently, because I’m not terribly keen on reading about screenwriting. But it’s been interesting to hear your thoughts about the strike, and even when I don’t agree with you (and that’s most of the time), I think your arguments are fairly well reasoned out.
But the “two weeks and then I’ll strike” is half-assed and lame. Your perogative, my opinion, whatever. But then signing that ad knowing your pencil isn’t down? That’s just bad news, man. And then admitting it here in a big rationalization? Less than half-assed (easily, a quarter-assed) and extremely lame.
I don’t mean to bag on your work, ‘cause I don’t know if you’ve written some amazing unproduced stuff or if the movies you have written were put through the wringer, but a while ago, I finally checked your imdb to see the movies you’ve made. And I was surprised. Just to see that this seemingly thoughtful guy with a point of view had only done extremely broad comedies and mostly parody movies. Not because they’re bad or anything, but that they didn’t seem as, well, thought-provoking as the stuff here.
I’m sure you may have had fun making them, but I doubt they were the movies you were dying to make. That’s all good. They just seem kind of mercenary.
I don’t know you. Hell, I don’t even know those movies very well.
But your deal with the “pencils down” ad… I mean it all kind of tracks. You do what’s right for you and you only. What you’re putting out, how you play the game.
And I’m sure you don’t even get what anybody’s problem could be with that.
Craig,
“Actors and directors who are also WGA members have been ordered by their own unions to report to work…so it’s more than just that they can, but, in fact, they should.”
Bzzzt!
Moral judgement. Questionable source.
They’re contractually required to, that’s for sure. But it’s not your place to declare what people of conscience should or should not do, ESPECIALLY when they’re out on the front lines, and you’re hanging back in (a) to (h) land.
Shawn Ryan SHOULD be showing up to oversee production of the final episode of The Shield next week. He won’t be. Because he feels that the right thing outweighs your SHOULD. And as much as this might drive you nuts, he’s a hero to his guild, for good reason. You’re not. With equal good reason. It would definitely behoove you at a time like this to avoid shitting on men and women who are putting their careers on the line over this strike.
“If that’s not a popular opinion, so be it. I stand by it.”
IF? Craig, if you spend ten minutes out there on the line, you’ll find that opinion isn’t even on the map. And you’re not a bold, independent thinking stud for stating it, no matter how strenuously you pose.
Craig,
And some would say by complying with legal contracts that support and empower corrupt employers is wrong.
It’s a moral gray area. I don’t think you should be criticized for your choice and I sure as hell don’t think you should be criticizing others for theirs.
Your choice, and I’m not judging you, leads to a longer strike action. A longer strike action leads me to sacrificing my career for you (and I’m willing to that). If someone chooses to sacrifice his or her career for me, I have to respect that and so should you.
This was brought up earlier, but I just want to get a clarification. Is there anything wrong (i.e. illegal, unethical, anti-WGA, scabby) with a non-WGA writer working with a non-signatory company without a studio deal during the strike?
Mark Haskell Smith:
“Am I the only one who finds a disconnect between someone who hides behind “Anonymous” and yet criticizes others for not having courage to take a stand?”
You are most definitely not.
The anonymi are getting tiring.
SML: “Showrunners and others are facing legal action for breaking their contracts. That’s the greatest sacrifice anyone of us could make. They’re putting their money where there mouth is… they’re saying, like Steve Carell, the WGA’s future is worth it. They are risking their million dollar salaries for the masses.”
More than that, some showrunners are being sued for the cost of the production. I don’t care how rich you are, that’s a load of cash.
Hey badcog - good to see you posting under your real name, although I do find it amusing that you berate people for using aliases.
Man, I’ve got to go pull up all my old favorite quotes from you…. You know the ones….
Kay,
Instead of anonymi, I prefer the plural pig fuckers. Yes, it’s insulting to pigs, but luckily they don’t post here… unlike those who fuck pigs… and I don’t eat pork, so I can say such things.
Craig,
Since you think people should show up to work, how do you feel about the showrunners? Not a loaded question, unless you answer unfavorably.
Heh.
“And some would say by complying with legal contracts that support and empower corrupt employers is wrong.”
Kind of wonder why we’re working so hard to get a contract with them then.
This thing has to go to June and SAG has to join in striking.
Thats the only way the WGA gets a better deal than what they might have gotten had they extended things past the strike deadline.
No reason for the studio heads to give up anything before then.
My info could be wrong, but I don’t believe Seth McFarlane has a Personal Service Agreement with Fox. He and his lawyers have been haggling with Rupert’s place about a new deal for some time, and so far as I know, no new contract’s been signed.
Sooo. Fox can’t sue him for breach of contract, since there ain’t no contract.
Kay,
“I don’t care how rich you are, that’s a load of cash.”
Damn. Didn’t realize that. Makes Craig’s criticism even more off point.
SML @84,
I think you’re mis-reading Craig’s criticism.
I think we weaken our position by urging our members to violate legal contracts.
I suspect he’s saying that, while having the showrunners violate contracts applies extra pressure against the AMPTP in the short run of this strike, it will also have the unintended consequence of making it harder for writers to become producer-writer hyphenates in the long run. And, unfortunately, it seems that the most effective ways for writers to empower themselves is to add a -producer or -director to their title.
I imagine the super-successful writers will always be able to leverage their talent into some other job and the additional influence. But there’s a lot of talented writers who are still on their way up, or maybe just not going to make that superstar list, and they could find it harder to hyphenate, or find themselves being told that they’ll have to give up WGA membership to become a showrunner after this since the studios will be gunshy.
Patrick wrote:
I’m more than happy to explain my position on this to you, but I’d prefer if you email me at admin@artfulwriter.com. My reasons go to negotiations strategy, and as much as I’m accused of willfully undermining the WGA, that’s not at all what I want to do.
Talking further about these reasons publicly could do that.
So email me, and I’ll give you my phone number, and I’ll explain it over the phone. Or I’ll email it back to you. Whichever you prefer.
Utterly Pointless wrote:
Yes, that would be half-assed and lame if that’s what I was doing. But it’s not. I am on strike right now. I am doing no writing as defined by our contract, nor am I taking meetings, nor am I accepting any writing work of any kind.
Well, this site reflects one side of me. My movies reflect another. You may view them as crap or mercenary, but that’s not what they are for me. I’m a huge fan of ZAZ parodies, and it’s been an honor to work with David Zucker and Jim Abrahams and Pat Proft.
I love these kinds of movies, and I love making them.
But, you know, different strokes and all that.
Some of you anonomous posters should go talk to BOD members and people on the Neg Com. You guys should find out whether they think Craig is a secret AMPTP spy.
Big difference between being a shill and an asshole.
Also, I wonder of some of you people who are idolizing these showrunners actually know what they’re really doing and thinking. Unfortunaly, the way life works, when you worship people you don’t know, you set yourself up to be let down.
Anyway, kudos to he “not a word” feature writers. Nice to see movie folks step up.
Olson wrote:
So I shouldn’t say shouldn’t?
But you can say it?
Are you making a philosophical argument in general, or just declaring that I’ve lost the right to formulate and publish opinions? You’ve lost me on this one.
How cute is Patrick Meighan’s idealized puppy love for Seth MacFarlane? Really. Love it. Love to be that young again. Perez Hilton take note.
How cute is Patrick Meighan’s idealized puppy love for Seth MacFarlane? Really. Love it. Makes me wanna be that young again. Perez Hilton take note.
I think the showrunners should refuse to submit literary material to the companies. I think the showrunners should not abandon their valid contractual duties as producers.
This isn’t, by the way, because I think contracts are holy and ought to be worshipped at the expense of morals or ideals (although I personally think if you give your word to do something, you ought to do it).
It’s because I think there are negative ramifications for our ongoing attempt to secure a good deal for the membership. And as I’ve said before, the why of it all isn’t something I’m willing to talk about publicly.
Olson:
“And you’re not a bold, independent thinking stud for stating it”
Says who?
Josh Olson,
while you appear to lecture Craig on morality of any description, would you like to clarify if you wrote the following?
http://spaceramblings.blogsome.com/2007/06/01/
“This is, of course, utter horsest. Saying that the pro-Israel lobby is rich and powerful is a simple statement of fact. It’s more than a little annoying that one cannot speak out against them without being branded an anti-Semite. Sort of like the big whoop made in Hollywood when Brando had the audacity to say that Hollywood is run by Jews. It’s f__g ridiculous.”
Adding to Craig’s assesment…
“…and like all battered women I will stay away until he shows me the slightest bit of love and will cave because I think it will be good for my children to have a man in their life…”
SML,
I just wanted to give you some props for that one.
Oh, and Craig,
Would you be willing to give Josh your phone number, as well, or does he have more of a “No closer than 300 yards” kind of relationship with you?
And did you write this to a Jewish commenter on the same blog?
“Perhaps, but if being overly simplistic and not very astute were crimes, you’d have been gassed long, long ago.”
(to get to these quotes attributed to Josh you must search for “badcog” on the main page. Josh apparently put a video on YouTube using the handle “badcog”).
I think you need to explain yourself, Josh, because this is anti-semitic stuff. Nobody should make a joke like that to a Jewish person.
Kay Reindl:
Which showrunners are being sued? Cause in the absence of specifity, just sounds like the b.s. fiction it is. Of course, much of what you’ve read on here sounds like fiction. And God help the studio that actually lets you near a budget (cause I mean wow is your info off base).
Correction to Post #97, “much of what you’ve WRITTEN on here”.
Also by the way, props where props are due, you are terribly inventive, hope you’ll write for years to come.
Correction to Post #97, “much of what you’ve WRITTEN on here”.
Also by the way, props where props are due, you are terribly inventive, hope you’ll write for years to come.
Correction to #97: “Much of what you’ve WRITTEN on here…”
Terribly inventive though, props where props are due, hope you’ll be writing for a long time to come.
Oh, I gave Josh my office number many months ago.
My office number has changed since then, so if he’s still interested, he can always email me, I’ll give him the new number, etc.
On the other hand, it wasn’t to make peace or anything. Instead, I believe I offered it to him so that I could tell him to go fuck himself.
He declined.
Craig: “I think the showrunners should refuse to submit literary material to the companies. I think the showrunners should not abandon their valid contractual duties as producers.
This isn’t, by the way, because I think contracts are holy and ought to be worshipped at the expense of morals or ideals (although I personally think if you give your word to do something, you ought to do it).
It’s because I think there are negative ramifications for our ongoing attempt to secure a good deal for the membership. And as I’ve said before, the why of it all isn’t something I’m willing to talk about publicly.”
And if you were the president of the Guild, you could do things your way. But you’re not. Your ideas are a bit too conservative for my taste. I mean, how would you pressure the AMPTP, then?
You haven’t worked in TV, so you don’t know how closely tied a showrunner’s job is to writing. A TV show moves a lot quicker than a movie and because of this, scripts are much more fluid. It’s nice to be an absolutist and say that the showrunners can and should fulfill their producer duties by not writing, but the reality is quite different.
This is particularly true if the showrunner is also the creator of the show. A director and a crew defer to the showrunner. It’s not like in film, where you can just kick the writer to the curb if you want to. And as someone who makes my primary living in TV, I have enormous respect for what they’re doing. I’ve spent lots of time in casting, in editing, in production and in post and in all my time doing those things, I’ve been both a writer and a producer. It’s not as easy to separate the two jobs as you seem to think it is.
It’s unfortunate that you don’t support their position. Our goal is to put as much pressure as we can on the AMPTP. Having all the showrunners there to finish their shows isn’t going to do that. We’re withholding our services. I realize that you don’t think this is important, or that it’s effective. But I’ve already seen its effectiveness because I’ve been talking to people on shows. These studios are desperate. Even though they went on about how many scripts they were stockpiling, it’s absolutely impossible to stockpile in TV. The schedule doesn’t permit it. I personally don’t want the AMPTP and its allies to to have even a few weeks of comfort. They need to know what it’s like to be without us, and that includes the showrunners.
To me, this is another instance of how you’re out of touch because you’re not in the thick of this. Having the showrunners out is a huge sign of solidarity and I completely believe in this tactic. But then I’m not an inner muckety-muck in the Guild…
As for the idea (posited above, I believe) that it’ll be harder for people to move up the ladder, that’s not going to be the case because of how contracts are structured. The more you work, the more levels you pass. And you eventually arrive at executive producer. Actually, you’re a hyphenate when you hit co-producer, and it’s not like shows are gonna be staffed by story editors.
Dear cowardly anonymous AMPTP shill calling him/herself “Hmmm”,
Yup, I admit it, I have a great deal of admiration for anyone willing to make sacrifices that benefit those less fortunate and/or powerful than themselves. I know, you may not be able to comprehend such a motivation, but it does exist within some folks from time to time, and Seth MacFarlane, at this point in time, appears to be acting with just such a motive. So, yeah, I admire the act, just as I admire the actor.
I can assure you, though, that there’s nothing “idealized” about the admiration, as the guy happens to be my employer, and, like most any employer, he does something most every single day that pisses me off. He’s a great guy, and he can be an asshole sometimes too. Please know that I know that.
As to the schoolyard “puppy love” taunt, I suppose this is where I’m expected to get all embarrassed and go “nuh uh!” and butch up and what-not for your benefit, and I totally was about to do that, too, but then I remembered that I’m not in 7th Grade.
Nice try, though.
Hey, “Hmmm,” what’s your real name and occupation? Here’s mine:
Patrick Meighan, writer
Who’s your employer? Mine’s 20th Century Fox. Or at least they used to be.
Yours?
Chickenshit #97: “Which showrunners are being sued? Cause in the absence of specifity, just sounds like the b.s. fiction it is. Of course, much of what you’ve read on here sounds like fiction. And God help the studio that actually lets you near a budget (cause I mean wow is your info off base).”
Showrunners are being sued for the entire budget of the production they have left. Sorry if you don’t believe that. I’m not going to give you any names because I’m not supposed to. As for the second part, huh? Where am I off base? I’d love to know.
And I’ve already been let near a budget, so too bad there. Seriously, asshat, show yourself. If you’re a worthy adversary here, tell me why I should give a shit.
Patrick, you forgot to include where you live, as well. If you could do that in the future, that would be super. Thanks.
If someone breaches his contract as a producer, then he’s violating his individual contract with an employer.
If someone breaches his contract as a director or an actor, then he’s violating his individual contract with an employer, a union contract with an employer, and his individual contract with the union, in the form of the union’s constitution and by-laws.
I think that someone who accepts a union job should honor both the union’s contract and the union’s constitution and by-laws.
Craig, as way to raise money for the WGA strike fund, would you be willing to sit on a stool and let us beat you senseless with nerf bat? I’m thinking 10 bucks for a minute would be fair.
After three days of reading what a sell out Craig is I find that it’s leaving me empty and wanting a more tangible expression of pain.
Just a thought…
Steven PP,
I don’t think I mis-read Craig. And I don’t think his criticism is coming from a nasty place. I honestly believe Craig has the little guy’s best interests at heart.
But it doesn’t give him the right to criticize others who also have the little guy’s best interest at heart. His criticism takes the focus off the little guy and puts it on the big guy.
Both philosophies have their positives and both have their negatives. But both will result in the little guy taking the heat for the big guy’s choices.
I believe Craig’s strategy empowers the AMPTP to hold out. But it doesn’t stop the little guy’s blood from spilling.
I believe the Showrunners (and others) strategy empowers all writers (at least for the short fight).
Blood will be spilled no matter what. The showrunners have said fuck the pretense, let’s cut our wrists and see what happens. And, yes, the little guy will suffer. But with this choice at least his or her death will be quick.
“I think that someone who accepts a union job should honor both the union’s contract and the union’s constitution and by-laws.”
And I think a member of the WGA should do all that he/she can, during a WGA strike, to give the WGA’s negotiating committee the maximum possible leverage with which to bargain so that the Alliance will be incentivized to reach a settlement quickly, and at terms favorable to the WGA.
So, I guess we simply have a difference of opinion.
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA (sorry, Tim W., to have forgotten that last part earlier… I know that must’ve been very disorienting to you)
Yes. The showrunners are heroes. To the extent that anyone in this situation can be.
They make me proud to be in this union.
Louise B,
That’s slanderous horse shit you’re spreading and doesn’t belong on this site.
Craig: DELETE BUTTON ON HER/HIM.
SML @108
Yah, I’m at least wrong about Craig’s reasoning.
The WGA doesn’t have any leverage…the threat of strike was the only meager leverage they had. Now they can only be hopeful for the leverage a possible SAG + WGA combp strike may have. But that means they are shit out of luck till June. The studios will be more than happy to clean out tons of deals, cut payroll and end it all by getting the WGA to sign a deal that isn’t any better than what they would have gotten without striking.
Craig,
“…the why of it all isn’t something I’m willing to talk about publicly.”
Then why say anything at all?
Your one sided statements don’t inform, present theory, or allow debate. They’re superfluous and yet highly inflammatory.
Exposit your theories to the masses and we’ll follow. Hide them and the AMPTP will kill you with PR.
It’s interesting that you strike against the studios. Of course they have screwed you over in the 8 cents that you request off a DVD. While I felt sympathy for your plight it occured to me that with the picketting and bullying as far as productions go - I mean it’s a double standard the showrunners wrote the last episode before the strike so they could get their money. They should shut up and allow the crew to get their money before their production is called to a halt. Figure it out people, you’re just a mob with no power anymore. Your union works for you - you don’t work for your union. The WGA Guild leadership failed you and yeah, of course they felt betrayed last Sunday with that deal - hey it’s Hollywood when have you ever heard of a good deal? Now you - the writers are betraying the people who worked for you on either a show more a show than a movie. I find it funny that you criticize Craig. He’s doing his job honoring his contract and not crossing the lines, then again right now you all are biting the hand that feeds you so you might as well bite Craig to since he gives you an outlet. You guys have no loyalty - how do you expect the same from the studios? Go look in the mirror writers, because it’s going to get ugly.
Patrick from Culver City… 109
Amen Brother. PTTP. That’s short for Power to the People.
P. That’s short for Peace. O. That’s short for Out.
Sleep, sleep time.
Can anyone advocating that hyphenates violate the terms of a valid contracts’ “no-strike” clause see where that calls into question the validity of any contract?
What’s the point of negotiating agreements if you have no intention of living up to them? Everyone living in this country relies on contracts for their daily lives; your lease, mortgage, credit, etc… all rely on people living up their agreements. If a bank suddenly yanked your mortgage and foreclosed on your home your next call would be to an attorney. Yet when it suites your cause your willing to toss it aside as some minor inconvenience.
Seems a tad hypocritical to me.
And yes, quite obviously I’m a studio shill because who else but a stooge for the man would dare to question the righteousness of the WGA tactics?
The WGA lost its soul when you let Jesse Jackson speak for you - you know it, because you can’t take that guy seriously anywhere else yet you let him speak at your rally? Instead of excercisng on Pico, why don’t you get you good old President into the negotiations again, before it’s too late. Look the studios are a small fraction of huge corporations. Right now television ratings are down and pretty much sequels are making the big buck in Hollywood. End this strike and negotiate before you relive 1988 all over again. Wanna wait for SAG? Then wait until June. They say they’re your brother or sister now - if they get a better deal think they’ll be a relative. Hell, you already know the DGA is working out something. Make your union work for you - right now your union is making you work for them. You pay their dues not the other way around. No, I’m not a corporate guy or anything like that, I just watched assistants to writers lose their job - people with families now have to figure out the next step while most of you working writers will get your jobs back when it’s all said and done. I said most, the rank and file bunch will probably get screwed - figure it out before it gets worse.
Because I was asked?
I’m kinda damned if I do, damned if I don’t, huh?
Jim,
GFYMUTA.
That’s short for… it’s already ugly my man. It’s been ugly for a long time. This bend over and take it, omega puppy, poop rolls downhill bullshit is what got us here in the first place.
Not only is the WGA showing John Wayne level grit, but they’re showing Jimmy Carter level reasonableness (Nobel Peace Prize in the house).
And that’s all we can ask for.
The AMPTP may not even flinch and three months from now people like me will be working at Starbucks dreaming of Brad Pitt’s abs (did I say I love Stephen Colbert?). And I’ll probably become an anti-corporate warrior, sercretly working my way up the chain of command (I’ve done it before and I’ll do it again), until I reach Howard Schulz’ office, sit my ass down on his lap and say, “Fuck Starbucks and Fuck you.” And who will I have to thank for my sack stretching three sizes: Katherine Heigl… (if you’re reading this: what’s up, baby? If my girlfriend is reading this: it’s not what it looks like).
So, yeah, it’s time to put up or shut up.
SML,
I haven’t seen you on the picket line at all. So STFU until you join the line, you are no better than any of the other anon internet warriors.
Craig,
You are royally damned and I do not envy you. There’s a lot of people who support what you do here, I just hope you don’t let this shit get to you.
But you seem to handling it okay.
Good night.
Hey SML…wake up, wake up…you’re writing in your sleep! :)
I know it has been ugly for a long time. I recall last year reading about the web episodes for Battlestar Gallactica and how Universal was screwing over the writers. I knew then it would get ugly. I was hoping a strike would not happen that negotiations could continue and something would work out. The enemy you are dealing with is a different type then the ones you dealt with in 88. These people don’t flinch about laying people off - you are nothing more than an accounting problem. I respect what writers are able to do - the good ones - there are posers i.e. writers who sit or lounge around collecting checks when maybe 2 writers in a staff of 12 staff writers work. You see it in production you see it on crews, but guess what those lazy people get caught and are fired. Don’t let this get to the point where you are working at Starbucks again. You value your intellect and intellegence - outsmart your oponent. Don’t become an angry mob. Right now your all emotional - everyone is. Below the line has everything to lose - while you might have something to gain. Of course you guys are thought of as selfish by some - prove those people wrong. Again, your union works for you - not the other way around - get them back to the negotiating table before its too late. Beat them at their own game.
“I’m a huge fan of ZAZ parodies, and it’s been an honor to work with David Zucker and Jim Abrahams and Pat Proft.”
Jim Abrahams is a great person, who has selflessly devoted most of his life now to helping kids with epilepsy through his Charlie Foundation. The man has some serious perspective on showbiz, considering all he’s been through.
I’ll never forget when “Sledge Hammer!” first debuted and Pat Proft called to congratulate me. Comedians are naturally competitive and the prime practitioners of schandenfreude, so that was incredibly gracious. Pat’s one of a kind. Truly a nice man in a not nice business.
Mel Brooks loved “Sledge Hammer!” so much that he asked me to co-create a series with him.
And without question, the highlight of my career was getting a fan letter from a “Monty Python” who said “Sledge Hammer!” was his favorite American sitcom. (People enjoy guessing which one.)
While I may have faltered since then and suffered the “slings and arrows” of outrageous executives and my own missteps, I remain proud of all these moments… but I’d never wave them in people’s faces out of defensiveness or to justify my own opinions.
I’ll never forget back when “Ghost” was the biggest movie in the world and how Jerry Zucker handled all that outsized success with incredible grace. I’d never seen a more down to earth, humble human being at the top of his game.
With your collaborative parodies, you’re basically doing an impression of the style ZAZ patented back when they were first doing “Kentucky Fried Theater.”
So, if you’re truly trying to carry on in the proud ZAZ tradition, you’re never going to match their ingenuity and originality, but I do suggest you try and replicate what is probably their greatest trait… humility.
SLEDGEHAMMER sucked.
And continues to suck.
Not as thoughtfully or gleefully as Hexina might.
But enough so that it is patently offensive when you try to glom onto Craig’s glomming on to the Zuckers.
You should be ashamed.
For so very much.
Is Terry Rossio not a member of WGA? I noticed his name was missing.
I’ve never asked that any person ever get banned from any message board for any reason. That said…
Is there some way that JG34Filmy can be banned for daring to denegrate “Sledge Hammer!”?
Mr. Spencer, the people love “Sledge Hammer!” At least the people who don’t suck.
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
There are times (rare, but they happen) when it’s more important to act on the dictates of your conscience than it is to defend the great unassailable sanctity of the American contract.
I know, people who are unfamiliar with acts of conscience are disoriented when they witness them from others. But, I assure you, there really is such a thing as a person (or group of people) doing something because it’s what his/their heart dictates, not because he/they stand to gain much of anything financially.
Showrunners, hyphenates, and dual-guild members who withhold their services during a strike aren’t “tossing (them) aside as some minor inconvenience.” They’re standing up for fairness, even if it puts them at great risk of liability of legal action by you, “Just Askin’”, and your employers within the AMPTP.
And, hey, if you’re truly not a shill, why don’t you go ahead and say who you are, what you do for a living, and who your employer is?
My name is Patrick Meighan, I’m a tv writer, and my employer is (or was) Fox Animation.
You?
Best,
Patrick Meighan Culver City, CA
It’s a free country, at least it used to be until Bush stole an election, so JG34Filmy or anyone else can say whatever they want.
Craig spends a lot of time defending himself against personal attacks. I think if people didn’t read as much hubris into some of the statements he makes, that wouldn’t occur as much. I don’t enjoy reading the attacks.
Still, it’s his playground and he doesn’t advocate censorship… so maybe the attacks are just meant to keep things lively. To me, they detract from the serious topics being bandied about.
My point was mentioning how incredibly down to earth and gracious those comic talents are that he’s cited. There’s a lesson to be learned in their demeanor for everyone.
I went out to dinner and literally every table was talking about the writer’s strike last night as well as our rally. I overheard our side being discussed with animus by many, many people and that concerns me. It got me thinking about what kind of “image” we present to the general public.
Surfing through some of the fierce infighting and petty arguments on these boards perhaps isn’t an example of writers putting on their “best face.”
Patrick writes:
“I know, people who are unfamiliar with acts of conscience are disoriented when they witness them from others.”
God, I love this line. It’s a thing of beauty.
And to think the guy who wrote this line, and other writers just as talented, are being exploited by conglomerate machines stuffing their pockets, refusing to make a fair deal … well, it makes me sick.
Although I’m a writer, and an aspiring screenwriter, I continue to deeply appreciate the skill of other writers.
Clearly the strike opponents do not.
Patrick, for what it’s worth… Mel Brooks was riding in an elevator back east when a woman told him that she found his movies “vulgar.”
He didn’t blink and replied: “Lady, my movies rise below vulgarity.”
Craig (aka Cowardly Lion):
Because of people like you, people who are cowards and hide behind “contractual obligations, the WGA will lose this battle.
The Companies depend on weak, shivering, pathetic wafflers like you so they can break ranks and destory lives.
The showrunners and the rest of us hyphenates who are taking a stand and going against their “obligations” have found their courage and are trying to expose the Wizard for what he really is.
Sadly, you (and others who support your behavior) are doing nothing more than prolonging this fight. As you hang back on the yellow brick road, others wage war and suffer and risk losing everything. But not you.
Please go back to Kansas. You’re an embarrassment to everything and everyone you pretend to stand for.
Patrick is an incredibly articulate person and very funny. So is Craig, but the quote I read the most from yesterday’s rally was that we were “kicking corporate ass.”
What I keep thinking is, is that a statement that should be coming from the Writer’s Guild, of all places, right now?
Hey Craig,
In the grand scheme of things this ain’t a biggie, but could you please delete #9’s comment, since you know, it’s not me who wrote that, yet it has my name on it?
As an advertising client once taught me — if you have a good lawyer, very few contracts are ironclad.
He was a former Marine officer who did three tours in Vietnam (the last he requested). Nothing rattled this guy. As a result, he was like a force of nature.
I learned from him that lawsuits shouldn’t scare you if you’re on solid moral ground.
Marshall Herskovitz wrote an amazing opinion piece for the Times. It touched upon an undercurrent to this strike that I haven’t heard anyone else articulate:
“The problems of network ownership and creative control are not directly at issue in the current strike by the Writers Guild of America. What’s at stake is how writers will be compensated, given the control everyone assumes the big companies will exert over new methods of delivery.
But make no mistake — deep resentment in the entire creative community over the absolute power now wielded by these companies is the fuel that feeds the strike. The public is also fed up, turning out in droves and sending millions of e-mails whenever the FCC holds hearings on the subject. And yet the large corporations move forward, seemingly unaware that they are strangling the creative engine that might save them.”
“And yet the large corporations move forward, seemingly unaware that they are strangling the creative engine that might save them.”
Posted by: Alan Spencer at November 10, 2007 7:42 AM
Excellent point.
It dovetails with my gut feeling about the growing backlash against megacongloms, not only in the film/TV industry but in all industries, where workers and consumers are getting screwed.
Today, even being a millionaire doesn’t insulate you.
The billionaires are eating millionaires for lunch.
Mr. Herskovitz touched upon how completely inept the network development process has gotten, with fleets of notes being coalesced into an incomprehensible mass that often contradicts itself and leaves the writer addled.
A network lured me back into development a couple of years ago and I was astounded by what I witnessed. If people want to know how comedies took a nosedive on network television, start with the pilot process.
I think Marshall Herskovitz is right when he said “deep resentment in the entire creative community over the absolute power now wielded by these companies is the fuel that feeds the strike.”
What I’m seeing isn’t just about the money, although that’s where you hit the corporate mentality the hardest, but also a desire for payback for every rebuff, bad note, stupid scheduling decision and overall rejection a writer is forced to endure.
I’m not a lawyer but I spoke to one (a non entertainment lawyer) about this contractual issue with the hyphenates and this is what I gathered from the conversation.
If a studio hires a member of a union/guild they know that in the event of a strike, the contact they sign may in fact violate the union/guild’s strike rules. Thus, something called the “impossibility of the contract” comes into play. The studios are aware that in times of a strike, the guild rules prohibit the writers from performing A-H duties. This is not a surprise. They may pressure and they may threaten to sue but in court, they would lose. A contract cannot induce a union member to violate their union rules. A writer can chose to violate the rules - that’s another issue, but they cannot be forced by a contract to violate the rules. And their contract does not supercede their union issues, in fact, cannot induce them to break their union obligations. Thus, these threats of lawsuits are really just scare tactics.
Contracts are very important and should be honored whenever possible. But in cases of strikes, union members must honor their unions. If it were any other way, unions could never strike.
And contract law understands this and backs the unions’ right to strike and that it does not violate the contracts.
Or so is my understanding of this issue.
Today’s L.A. Times…
Front page: No mention of the rally. Calendar section front page: No mention of the rally. Business section: Only a photo on the front page. Story on the second page.
Therein lies our problem. And it’s huge. An “industry” town is experiencing an industry event of seismic proportions and it get scant coverage in the town’s most influential (and only) newspaper.
Hmmm.
Not only was Sledge Hammer hilarious, Alan Spencer is a minor fucking deity for the outrageously foresighted deal he worked on the DVDs, a good decade before there WERE DVDs.
I was actually working in the accounting department at New World TV when the show was on the air. To this date, the most inexplicable job I ever had, as I have no accounting skills whatsoever. I did, however, spend the majority of my time working on scripts, including the first one I ever got made. Which shows where I come down on the honoring contracts thing.
So Alan, if you ever got a check that was so completely wrong it made your head spin (letters instead of numbers, perhaps. Five digits after the decimal point)…. that was your first encounter with The Josh Olson Business, baby!
“What I keep thinking is, is that a statement that should be coming from the Writer’s Guild, of all places, right now?”
Emphatically, yes. When we cry poverty, it doesn’t fly. When we cry “We are great artists, treat us well!” it doesn’t fly. Because neither of those things are altogether true. But when we point out it’s yet another example of corporate megalomania run amok, we’re not only speaking the truth, we’re speaking a truth most Americans can vigorously relate to.
uhnon,
“Is Terry Rossio not a member of WGA? I noticed his name was missing.”
No idea if Terry signed or not (can’t imagine he wouldn’t), but a lot of folks who signed aren’t there. I speak as one of them, and my pal Dan Waters is also absent, although we “signed” together.
Malcolm,
“Big difference between being a shill and an asshole.”
Indeed. And while Craig sometimes acts like a shill, it would blow my mind to find he actually was one. He’s just an asshole with a unique and comfy situation (that he’s explained in detail here), and who has confused his personal situation with the universal one. There’s a bit of the Stockholm syndrome going on there. Craig tends to come down on the side of bread upon which his own very special butter is spread.
“Also, I wonder of some of you people who are idolizing these showrunners actually know what they’re really doing and thinking. Unfortunaly, the way life works, when you worship people you don’t know, you set yourself up to be let down.”
Wow. What a thoroughly obnoxious, inane, and irrelevant comment. That was almost Mazinesque in its wormy spinniness.
“Anyway, kudos to he “not a word” feature writers. Nice to see movie folks step up.”
Speaking as someone who signed it, I can safely say that signing a two page ad in Variety that states I plan on abiding by the most basic tenets of the strike is a far, far cry from stepping up.
Showing up counts for a hell of a lot more, and even THAT isn’t stepping up.
Craig,
“So I shouldn’t say shouldn’t?”
Oooh! Nice spin! Well done, O’Reilly.
“Are you making a philosophical argument in general, or just declaring that I’ve lost the right to formulate and publish opinions? You’ve lost me on this one.”
No, I haven’t. If I had, you wouldn’t have unleashed your squalid little pal, Louise. Sieg Heil!*
“It’s because I think there are negative ramifications for our ongoing attempt to secure a good deal for the membership. And as I’ve said before, the why of it all isn’t something I’m willing to talk about publicly.”
How may Communists’ names do you have in that envelope, senator?
Seriously, though - what’s the standard for posting info? If it’ll do harm to the Guild leadership or the folks on the lines, it’s okay, but if it’ll do damage to your agenda, you’ll keep it to yourself? Still trying to figure that one out.
“I personally think if you give your word to do something, you ought to do it”
Ooh! So you’re the tall walkin’ Western hero, and the showrunners (and the rest of us who aren’t working when we SHOULD be) are… who? Eli Wallach and his army of bandits?
Bleargh.
“I believe I offered it to him so that I could tell him to go fuck himself.”
In your lovely baritone voice. Don’t forget that part.SML,
“That’s slanderous horse shit you’re spreading and doesn’t belong on this site. Craig: DELETE BUTTON ON HER/HIM.”
Not gonna happen. Louise is a friend of Craig’s. Much like the last person who went this route a while back. It’s par for the course, and it’s why so many people here post anonymously. And dude, you HAVE to learn the difference between libel and slander one of these days. You’re a writer. Words have shoebox.
Patrick: “There are times (rare, but they happen) when it’s more important to act on the dictates of your conscience than it is to defend the great unassailable sanctity of the American contract.
I know, people who are unfamiliar with acts of conscience are disoriented when they witness them from others. But, I assure you, there really is such a thing as a person (or group of people) doing something because it’s what his/their heart dictates, not because he/they stand to gain much of anything financially.
Showrunners, hyphenates, and dual-guild members who withhold their services during a strike aren’t “tossing (them) aside as some minor inconvenience.” They’re standing up for fairness, even if it puts them at great risk of liability of legal action by you, “Just Askin’”, and your employers within the AMPTP.”
GREAT post. Sincerely. I know your showrunner is taking a huge stand and your defense of him and the other showrunners continues to be articulate and passionate. He should be very proud of you.
One hallmark of a good showrunner is somebody who protects his or her writers. I’ve worked for showrunners who aren’t adept at this, and others who always have your back. These showrunners are making the ultimate sacrifice in TV — their show — to protect the rest of us. They are fighting for US. Craig is not. Ted is not. And in a way, it’s understandable because feature writing is a solitary business while TV writing is not. But there are some feature writers I know of who ARE putting it on the line.
I find it despicable that anyone would criticize the showrunners. I guess we found the schism within the Guild. The showrunners wield an enormous amount of power at this moment. Hmm… maybe those who have always found TV to be second-class to features aren’t too fond of that.
Metinker: “If a studio hires a member of a union/guild they know that in the event of a strike, the contact they sign may in fact violate the union/guild’s strike rules. Thus, something called the “impossibility of the contract” comes into play. The studios are aware that in times of a strike, the guild rules prohibit the writers from performing A-H duties. This is not a surprise. They may pressure and they may threaten to sue but in court, they would lose. A contract cannot induce a union member to violate their union rules. A writer can chose to violate the rules - that’s another issue, but they cannot be forced by a contract to violate the rules. And their contract does not supercede their union issues, in fact, cannot induce them to break their union obligations. Thus, these threats of lawsuits are really just scare tactics.”
Indeed, and thanks for posting that. The showrunners know this, too, but they’re still scared shitless. And they’re still out there, refusing to cross the line.
“Contracts are very important and should be honored whenever possible. But in cases of strikes, union members must honor their unions. If it were any other way, unions could never strike.”
This should be embroidered on a sampler and repeated every day.
Alan: “What I’m seeing isn’t just about the money, although that’s where you hit the corporate mentality the hardest, but also a desire for payback for every rebuff, bad note, stupid scheduling decision and overall rejection a writer is forced to endure.”
It’s the last straw, basically. They don’t respect the writers and the only way to get respect is to tie it to the only thing they understand — money. At this point, I don’t think the development process, the act of writing mountains for free, is going to change. So we need to be compensated for something. They can’t rip us off in such an obvious way anymore. I’m sure they’ll find a more subtle way but hey, one thing at a time.
Meridian: “The showrunners and the rest of us hyphenates who are taking a stand and going against their “obligations” have found their courage and are trying to expose the Wizard for what he really is.”
Exactly. We’re writers first. I know a number of writers who got their first shows on the air this year. They walked away. There’s nothing more irritating than fatcats sitting on the sidelines and criticizing people who are exercising the courage of their convictions. Cowards use rules and contracts to shield them from having to make a moral decision. Must be simple to live in that world.
Thanks, Josh, for the support… as well as the insight as to why the New World checks featured minus signs.
I appreciate your position on the “kicking corporate ass” statement. I suppose I thought this dispute should be viewed as standard business, but after yesterday I’ve begun to feel we’re in a civil rights struggle to boot.
Hopefully, we’ll meet at the next rally where Disney guards will turn hoses on us.
meridian,
I’m confused. I looked on Craig’s IMDB page and it said he was from Brooklyn. Do you have information that disputes this?
Tim W. Vancouver, B.C.
WHO let Patrick out of the Manatee Tank?
Like my Mom once said upon learning how little I made (freelance) on a particularly successful ad campaign I’d created,
“I feel like they’re sucking your brain to make themselves rich.”
The AMPTP’s use of writers does have a touch of Matrix symbolism going on.
welcome to the world SusanC, glad you could join us.
I am one of those people who got a breach letter this week. So I think it’s important to clarify something:
A number of us have been threatened with lawsuits for production costs created by our failure to perform producing duties. But nobody’s been sued yet. As in, had a suit filed against them.
A breach letter is a first step, but it isn’t a lawsuit.
I know no one’s been sued because the showrunners are having meetings and staying in touch about exactly this issue. The minute one of us gets sued, most of us are going to react to that. And so far, nobody’s been sued. Many haven’t even received breach letters. They’ve received notices that their contracts have been suspended. A different matter altogether and not nearly as serious a threat as a breach letter.
The minute somebody is sued, there’s going to be a lot of noise about that. But so far, not the case.
It seems to me that the easiest way to get this strike settled is to get the American people involved.
All it would take is a coalition of top names — Oprah? Leno? Arnold? Hillary? Barack? — to come out and suggest that, if people want their favorite programs back, then it is time to boycott movie theaters until the strike is settled.
Which the American people would have every reason to want — laying off paying $ to go to a theater, in exchange for better free TV programming (I know TV isn’t free, but no one is going to turn off their cable anytime soon)? You aren’t asking people to sacrifice much.
The corporations can afford to wait on the TV stuff, but the big movie season is about to hit. The time to really hit them in the pocketbooks is now. Give the AMPTP every reason to want to hurry back to the negotiating table.
Of course, it would need some big names (bigger than hang out here) to actually step up and get the ball rolling.
But I don’t understand why it’s a card that no one is even suggesting trying to play. Because people love their TV.
About Variety — where is their bread buttered?
Thanks to my new puppy I was up at 6 am this morning & caught the last seconds of a cable newsperson interviewing some Variety columnist who said, “The fallout from the WGA strike will leave over 30,000 people without jobs.”
Where did he get that number?
yeah 30,000 sounds low
welcome to the world SusanC, glad you could join us.
Posted by: Anonymous at November 10, 2007 10:01 AM
Ummm… okay.
Whoops. #156 was me.
Breached,
Thanks for the correction. I heard the showrunner meetings have been pretty contentious, but the showrunners I’ve talked to don’t seem angry or scared, at least not yet.
i know in your little world dealing with 2A’s garbage disposal acting up, and 7C’s roach infestation, the Ad Agency’s “brain-sucking” seems like the Matrix. if it is so easy to get the financing to start an agency, why did’t you do it? then you could be the “sucker”. by the way, the building owner is “sucking your brain” now, getting rich.
Scott:
I suspect the average citizen will be boycotting theaters by default due to gas prices.
Last night economists were predicting $4 per gallon in December. (More record profits for the oil corps.)
Add in the cost of heating oil this winter, money will be tight going into Xmas for even the double-incs with kids.
Josh O
So YOU’RE the reason I got lectured by my accountant when we found out that New World didn’t 1099 me for a fairly large sum in those days.
Well, in one way, you made an honest guy outta me.
and I think they had something to do with the Sledgehammer post production payments….
Sadly, the general American public doesn’t care. Agree with it or not, we’re all associated with that “media conspiracy to degrad American morals, etc.” Those of us here know differently.
IMHO, we need to bring the studios to a complete halt. Every gate, every casting session, every shooting location, every everything. Put up information pickets at your local theatre and video store (since hopefully those American that are buying or renting tapes and DVD’s need to know about the strike and may be more receptive than John Q Public). If possible (and legal) consider placing them at places like Best Buy and Wal Mart where DVD players and discs are sold. Place informational pickets at Apple Stores. Essentially, shut down everything and make yourselves omnipresent.
At the end of the day, it will be the business sector that decides when the strike will end, not those people tired of watching reruns or unscripted shows. Inform and educate the business sector. Let the WGAe place information pickets at Wall Street.
That said, as a non-WGA member (I’m DGA, a freelanced producer, and own an industry vendor operation), don’t wait. Get out NOW and get some teeth behind your actions. Those non-WGA supporters will cool if they see no efforts being made to push for some resolution.
The operative word was FREELANCE. Which means I AM MY OWN COMPANY, bubbalah.
Oh, and as for you parting salvo — I own my house.
1- Agree anonymous posters who are ripping Craig are a bit cowardly, though i think anonymous is the default.
2- it is patently unfair to imply Craig is a scab because he is finishing his directing duties on a project. Contracts are contracts…the WGA honored their MBA up until the clock ran out…
3- Many people who signed the WGA pencils down document didn’t make the cut because it was put together in 48 hours and they signed afterwords…there is an online version.
4- This is a strike about money (period). Total revenues from content created by the WGA will probably continue to grow in a relatively similar up and to the right trend it has followed in the previous 20 years. The routes of distribution are changing and both sides want to ensure their piece of the pie are bigger…it’s a zero sum game and until one side budges it won’t change…the WGA are protecting their interests—-the AMPTP are protecting theirs and eventually they’ll reach an agreement…I’d put the over under at January 15th.
Patrick:
I’m the IT geek guy who watched writers that couldn’t be bothered to look out the windows of their late model automobiles when the janitors struck studios a few years ago for just a living wage and basic health care, and watched writers years before that crossing Teamster picket lines. I’m the guy that (unless I read this incorrectly on the WGA website) doesn’t get health care for a year and a half after earning $30K and a pension if I get laid off because of this strike. I’m the guy who looked at all the pictures of yesterday’s coverage and saw a startling sea of white guys holding pre-printed signs and wearing t-shirts (made by union workers or will they trace back to one of Delay’s wondrous fictive Made in the slave trade North Mariana island of USA - did the writer’s union care enough to pay someone a decent wage to print their message?) being served churros and thought only Tyler Perry gets it. And so I am finally the guy who can’t stand the awful carnage and hyprocricy of it, because a lot of little people will probably lose their jobs for someone’s refusal to show up and render contracted services because he’s in solidarity with people who by all appearances were making pretty decent money beforehand (or spending way too much on credit cards). And that’s not entirely the studios’ fault. And yes, I know writers not working aren’t making money, but writers who work at the studios being struck seem (again from the WGA website), to do pretty handsomely. And then in practice, once the WGA’s interests are satisfied, they seem to have very little interest in those same interests for others. So you take what I said however you like (I had a brief moment of nostalgia remembering when I could see the world in such black and white terms). And when you or the WGA can prove that it won’t fuck me over (I’m not holding my breath) when I’m demonstrating for something far more basic than what the WGA appears to be asking for, when you throw down and show up on that line, then I’ll gladly introduce myself to you.
Are the studios not aware of what Radiohead just did with releasing their latest album? Aren’t they a little worried that they may no longer be necessary?
I have not heard of any showrunners actually receiving legal papers initiating lawsuits against them. This includes the head writers on my show, as well as those on over ten other productions spanning the three networks and multiple studios. I am aware of the showrunners receiving letters basically saying “Go back to work or else”, and I am aware that showrunners who have stayed out have been getting their pay suspended, since they aren’t providing services at this time. And in all honesty, that’s fair. But if, say Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse were being sued by ABC Studios for the whole cost of making LOST, I think you’d hear about that in public. Lawsuits are matters of public record, and that sort of thing would get out to Nikki Finke in a hurry.
I admire the exuberance I have been reading here, but I ask as a below the line crew member that you keep a couple of things in mind:
And 2, I have seen no indication that the studios and networks are “desperate” at this time. With the episodes we have completed, our show can air through this month. December is normally not a big TV month as we go into seasonal programming and people’s minds turn to the holidays and/or the final college bowls. And in January, the networks can start airing their midseason shows, although they don’t have so many of them that they can fill the schedule. But they will be able to boast of new programming at that time. It will be February that the absence of new scripted shows will finally be felt. My point is that it will take until that time for the real cost of this strike to be felt by the networks, and it would be that way if all 3 guilds went out today. I don’t see any indication that the AMPTP has any intention of negotiating again for some time. My gut says they won’t say anything more until January, other than to rebut this or that WGA public statement. So it feels to me that this strike will be a marathon, not a sprint. (And believe me, my entire crew wishes it was a sprint)
I must also second the thoughts from either this thread or another that mentioned a talent manager who got himself an Exec Producer credit on a show without actually working on it. I find the plethora of people with “producer” credits on any TV show to be ridiculous. When I was on JAG, there were no less than thirteen producers listed on the show. Four were post production, one was the BTL line producer getting an exec producer credit, one was the UPM getting an ego credit, three were writers receiving various levels of producer credits, one was the head writer (when it wasn’t Don Bellisario, and he jumped in a lot, depending on the situation), and then you had Chas. Johnson and Don himself. If you were to tell me that all of them were producing the show, I’d say from my experience that this was NOT the case. Doesn’t mean they didn’t all do good work, but, well, THIRTEEN PRODUCERS on one show?
The whole Teamster endorsement appears to not have played a part this week, at least as far as my show. After telling us they would honor the lines, our drivers did respect the lines at the stage. But this didn’t apply on location. Not every driver agreed with this - some were furious - but they did what their boss told them and pulled the equipment in. And by next Thursday, the discussion will be moot as far as my show goes anyway.
I personally hope that the negotiations get going again soon, if only for the sake of the below the line people caught in the middle.
Tavis —
I just read that Ed Burns is going to release his latest movie straight to iTunes as a $14.99 download.
The problem, of course, is that no one is going to pay $14.99 to download an Ed Burns movie.
Scott-
But would you pay $14.99 for a season of Family Guy?
Olson,
I meant to write “there’s a big difference in THINKING someone’s a shill or an asshole.” I have a high opinion of Craig.
As far as showrunners…
Josh is probably right. I shouldn’t have implied that some of these showrunners who have walked out might not be as thoroughly righteous as some folks here think. It’s not consistant with what I’ve been saying here as far as support. It was shitty.
Most of the showrunners I’ve talked to are not nearly as judgmental as the people who post here. They (the showrunners) get how tough the decision to walk away is. And they are more supportive of their peers than the people here.
Josh, I know there’s personal bad blood between you and a lot of people here, but see if you can avoid post shots.
Patrick, I don’t know your pedigree as far as guild service, but I’d be willing to bet you haven’t put as much time in working for writers as Craig. That should mean something to you.
Again, you might wanna talk to the people who are—and have been—putting in work for you since before this strike before you get online questioning someone’s dedication.
Alan Spencer wrote:
Well, you seemed to do exactly that with your litany of past praise for your series, but what I was doing was answering someone’s question…which was, and I paraphrase loosely…”Why does someone who writes this serious stuff only make stupid, broad comedies?”
My point was…I make them because I love them.
You oddly had to turn that into a personal attack.
Why?
Maybe you didn’t realize I was answering someone’s question.
Hmmmmm (#165):
“A startling sea of white guys”?
First off, don’t be a race baiter. Makes you awfully small.
And secondly — maybe you should try showing up to one of these rallies sometime. You’ll see people of all shapes, sizes, races and genders.
Josh,
what do you consider stepping up?
And,
how have you stepped up?
Hmmm
“a lot of little people will probably lose their jobs for someone’s refusal to show up and render contracted services because he’s in solidarity with people who by all appearances were making pretty decent money beforehand “
So let me see if I have this right - because you’ve decided that someone who writes screenplays for a living makes too much money, we should shut the fuck up and take what we’re given.
I’m just curious why you apply this rationale to writers, but not the staggeringly wealthy people who utilize our services. If I’m overpaid for simply writing - a gig anyone can do, obviously - what about the guy who makes even more for doing even less?
Make no mistake - this IS about class warfare. It’s the super-rich vs. the rest of us. And you’ve placed yourself firmly on the side of the super-rich.
Malcolm,
“Most of the showrunners I’ve talked to are not nearly as judgmental as the people who post here.”
More spin. You’ve talked to a few guys on the line, now you speak for them. Okay. So do I. At least two of them think Craig’s a weasel for the stuff he’s posted here. Does that make them judgemental?
“Josh, I know there’s personal bad blood between you and a lot of people here”
Only a few, actually. You guys are a pretty tiny group. And the bad blood is mostly as a result of the dirty tricks brigade, a little gang you and Louise B are part of.
“Patrick, I don’t know your pedigree as far as guild service, but I’d be willing to bet you haven’t put as much time in working for writers as Craig.”
So if someone lauds the actions of the showrunners, they’re “idolizing” them. But when you laud Craig for working for writers, a guy who’s been actively denigrating the strike, the leaders of the strike, and the showrunners…. well, what ARE you, exactly?
“what do you consider stepping up?”
Walking away from a show you created, risking losing all financial participation in it and possibly being sued for the costs of production would be a start.
“how have you stepped up?”
Not in the least. I’ve showed up every day. I’ve supported the strike, and, unlike some, I’ve recognized how the rules of the road changed once it began. Unlike some folks. But I haven’t even come close to stepping up. Neither have you. Neither has Craig.
We’ll see how that changes when the opportunity arises.
Josh,
I’m not trying to spin anything. I just don’t think it’s not right for writers to go into certain types of criticism.
The line to me is this: saying Craig is 100% wrong 100% of the time is fair. Accusing and implying that he’s crooked isn’t right.
I brought up Patrick’s name because he seemed to be questioning Craig’s dedication. Like I said, very few of us have dedicated time to helping other writers. He has. Way before the strike.
Let’s run the numbers…
12,000 WGA members. 6,000 (give or take) voted for the strike authorization. 500(?) are actively participating in the strike?
And of those 500, how many (Craig Mazin (et all)) are essentially acting out of principle and not bottomline circumstance?
Neither Josh Olson nor Craig Mazin work for the minimums at issue in this strike.
This is an important fight, but let’s not forget the people who have the most at stake
I went to the “Jack Oakie Celebration of Comedy in Film” last night and the strike came up a little. Larry Gelbart, speaking in a “I wish it weren’t so” way said he felt this thing was going to go on for a while.
On a side note, does anybody know if it’s illegal to write messages in chalk on sidewalks? I tried to leave messages for the picketters at the Pico gate at FOX for Friday, but was freaked out that I was going to get arrested that what I did do was a flacid attempt at best. I bought myself the “good chalk” and am ready to leave more next week, anybody wanna join me? I could use a spotter.
Matt, there are a LOT more than 500 WGA members actively participating in the strike.
I think that on Thursday there were probably 500 at WB alone.
Malcolm,
“Most of the showrunners I’ve talked to are not nearly as judgmental as the people who post here. They (the showrunners) get how tough the decision to walk away is. And they are more supportive of their peers than the people here.”
I’m confused, because you seem to be defending Craig a lot, but both Craig and Ted are hardliners regarding the showrunners. They both think the showrunners should fulfill their producing duties. All I’ve been saying is how much I respect the showrunners for walking away. So what are you saying, exactly?
“I’m not trying to spin anything. I just don’t think it’s not right for writers to go into certain types of criticism.”
What types? I’d like to know specifically how people should and should not be criticized.
Working AD: “I admire the exuberance I have been reading here, but I ask as a below the line crew member that you keep a couple of things in mind:
That there are many, many people affected by this strike whose only interest in it is that they are losing their job because of it. On my show, over 100 people will be unemployed as of Thursday, when we complete our final episode. Most of us believe that the show will not return until July, given the way things have been going. Many of our crew do not know how they will be making a living, or how they will make it for months on unemployment. Assuming that the strike ends early enough for us to continue this season, we have discussed the likelihood that we will be forced to work 6 day weeks and multiple double-unit days every week in order to complete our season before the episodes are supposed to air. I should also note that my DGA crew is in support of the strike and has refused to cross picket lines - even when a picket line appeared at our base camp/crew parking on location. We are not hostile to your guild.”
I don’t know how many times this has to be said before you get it — CREW PEOPLE ARE NOT THE ONLY PEOPLE SUFFERING. If the median in the Guild is indeed around $90,000 (and I find that hard to believe), I have never even come close to that. The one thing that’s never taken into account is writing partners. We split a salary so we make half of what other writers make.
You’re working on a show, correct? I haven’t worked on a show in two years. I’ve existed by selling pilots, writing freelance episodes and — oh, yeah — with residuals. So you and your crew are doing far, far better than I’ve been doing.
You’re still working. I walked away from another freelance script that has now gone away and that will likely not be there when the strike is over, either.
I’m sorry you and your crew will be out of work. The collateral damage that will be done to people outside our Guild is devastating. I wish there was another way to solve this, but IMO the studios are trying to break the unions and I don’t think you want that, either. The WGA just happens to be the first on the firing line. But please realize that you are not the only ones who are being deeply affected by this. I’ll be out of money long before you will.
I hope this doesn’t come off as an attack, because it isn’t meant to be. I’m just tired of people assuming that all us writers are unconcerned about how long a strike will last because we’ve got bags of money. For all his talk about “the little guy,” I blame people like Craig for putting that attitude out there. Because people like Craig are the spokespeople for the Guild. They don’t put people like me or many, many of my friends out there in the press or the public eye. Gee. I wonder where the “rich greedy writers” notion comes from…
I value what you and your crew do greatly. You are the backbones of television. I hope this is resolved as quickly as possible so you and your crew can get back to work.
The way things were done will change. They were going to change, anyway, but they’ll change much faster, now. There will be new players. The AMPTP will have to share MUCH MUCH MUCH more with them than the WGA has asked for.
Wherever the money comes from, at least talented writers (and actors and directors) will still have talent, which is what makes the entertainment industry go ‘round.
Laughed my ass off. Otherwise, some really good posts, sc.
Scott The Reader,
I don’t know if Matt’s numbers are correct, but maybe he means people who are working for the strike in some kind of official capacity.
Working AD —
All so right. I support your comments. And, you and your staff — who have been loyal supporters of the WGA strike since the outset — should be recognized instead of being bashed as you have in some previous threads.
Hmmmm —
I can understand your anger and frustration. Although I feel it is a much more complex debate over what the WGA is striking over, on the surface it appears that their is little sympathy for “everyone else.” I’m sorry that some of the responses on this thread support your POV.
To Josh —
The WGA has much support from the entire industry. But, your industry peers expect to see something proactive from the WGA towards pushing for a resolution. Yes, it’s a two way street and the AMPTP absolutely plays a role. But, we all have to let the egos go and move collectively towards getting the parties back to a room and opeing up a diologue. Right now, nobody seems anywhere close to getting to that point. Further, as Working AD points out, there really is no motivation to even open up talks again before February, at which time you can assume the AMPTP-DGA contract will have already been finished and maybe even SAG has opened up talk.
Question for Josh and others: Let’s assume the WGA settles with the AMPTP in the spring of 2008. Let’s then assume that SAG cannot reach an agreement and walks out at the end of July. Are you ready to go back out and honor the SAG pickets even though you’ve just had a protracted stoppage? Nobody can answer this conclusively since it assumes certain things and has not happened. But, it could easily develop this way. As an industry, are we all really ready to be out for 9-10 months????
I keep hearing about “outlasting the producers.” You might outlast the execs at the AMPTP companies, but you’ll never outlast the companies themselves. Anything less than that understanding is a recepie for disaster.
People like me, or me?
Because I’m trying to get blamed for as much shit as possible. So far, so good.
Kay you’re my favorite. Now get off of here and write another post on your blog. The IA members all know you guys are aware of our problems. I think we restate them a lot because we’re so used to getting burned by creative guilds in our own past actions. We won’t let you forget now, and trust me, we won’t let you forget when we all walk a picket someday. I’m lucky enough to have moved over to commercials and (God help me) music videos, but on my next off day, I’ll be out there with you. Keep the faith.
I’m not particularly impressed with the “breaking a contract is illegal” argument. Fifty years ago it was deemed “illegal” for my great-uncle and nine of his colleagues to refuse to divulge the names of others with whom they’d attended certain political meetings. If that example doesn’t suit your political stripe than it was also “illegal” for Lech Walensa and the Solidarity movement to strike at the Lenin Shipyards. Legal and moral are sometimes at odds and it takes the emergence of the latter, even at personal cost, to effect change in the former.
Having said that, the vilification of one WGA member who continues directing and the comparison to the showrunners walking out seems a bit disingenuous. The showrunners have strength by acting in concert and are working out a common strategy through which to deal with the legal ramifications against one by responding as a group. Not saying it isn’t gutsy and inspirational. I bow down in awe and gratitude to these people, even the ones I wouldn’t want to spend five minutes in a room with.
But each WGA member walking off a directing job would not have the same effect. There just aren’t enough. They’d be fired and replaced immediately by a DGA director who, for reasons we need to address as a Guild or perish, would happily finish the film and usher it through the studio pipeline. If every DGA director walked off his or her set in solidarity with the WGA and none were available to finish Craig Mazin’s movie it would be an entirely different story. I think our energies would be better spent on trying to understand why that isn’t the case and sparing no effort in trying to change it than on the virtual stoning of a member who isn’t willing to suffer personal loss without a cohesive strategy for a positive outcome.
I think it’s fine to want people to make sacrificial but primarily symbolic gestures like that, to even ask them to, but to actually require it as a demonstration of basic morality seems like a bit of moral reach itself and a “kill the beastie” misdirection of pent up frustration. He’s not the only WGA member directing a movie right now, nor the most famous or powerful, but he may be the only one doing it while leaving himself open to criticism in a public forum. I don’t agree with a lot of his actions, opinions or positions but I credit Craig for allowing them to be debated here while he works through them in real time. If he’s truly motivated by strategy than I’d also like to hear about it because we could use as much as we can get.
Our real enemy is our division. Not just inside the WGA but across union lines. It’s not going to make much difference what Craig does if all of IATSE is pissed at us for costing them work without engaging them successfully beforehand or the DGA thinks we’re being whiny or any other labor force fails to see why our fight is their fight.
As the media companies have grown in wealth, reach and power they view themselves as a more irresistible force and labor - creative, technical and manual alike - as an increasingly moveable object. It’s going to take a unified effort to dissuade them of this notion and force them to actually negotiate rather than dictate.
Kay —
Re: your comments to Working AD… This has nothing to do with who runs out of money first. The issue that Working AD is bringing up is that his/her crew is out of work to no fault of their own. They didn’t have a chance to vote for/against a strike. They don’t stand to gain/lose what comes from this strike. They’re essentially along for the ride. They are collateral damage, but damage nonetheless. They are trying to be supportive since they recognize what it all means to their co-workers (WGA and non-WGA alike). But, they are taking hits here, too.
Just to muddy the waters of the new media issue, I think people should notice that ‘Quarterlife’, the Zwick/Herskovits show that has a prime-time network -like budget and is shown online via MySpace, appears to be completely tanking. Not sure which side this is a talking point for, but it is a reminder that making the transition to new media is not going to be problem-free for the television industry.
Josh Olson,
What do you mean by:
“I haven’t even come close to stepping up. Neither has you.” (edited to leave the personal stuff out)
You and Malcolm are both on Strike — isn’t that stepping up?
What would you say qualifies as stepping up?
Shreve, thank you for clarifying.
Kay, I am not saying in any way that writers are not suffering during this strike. Nor am I saying that my crew is worse off than you or anyone else. This isn’t a competition of who gets hurt the most.
I was trying to say that there are other people who are not in your guild also caught up in this. I respect your guild, and I will not cross your lines. I will continue to provide whatever useful information I can. (I only got fooled by a rumor once, and I tend to learn from my mistakes)
And I personally believe that this isn’t an Armageddon situation of the WGA being broken or TV being ruined forever or anything else like that. I think this is a matter of time before a new contract is agreed upon between the WGA and the AMPTP, just as there will be new contracts this coming year with the DGA and SAG. I agree that the current terms from the AMPTP were unacceptable, and the method of negotiating was terrible. Hopefully, there will be a solution before too much time goes by. If it goes all the way to next July, as I believe it will, then we will all have paid dearly for it. And that includes people of all incomes in your guild and mine, and a lot of people on all of our crews who, as Shreve correctly puts it, are essentially along for the ride.
“I don’t know if Matt’s numbers are correct, but maybe he means people who are working for the strike in some kind of official capacity.”
Malcolm,
No.
I was struck by a description of a strike event at the gate of a studio in a recent article as being a “large number” of 60 people.
Where interpreting this strike gets complicated is in assessing who it actually affects and/or benefits.
There are a lot of wannabes chiming in, but honestly, how many people make their living from writing in a given year for signatory companies?
Of those folks, how many work for the minimum?
And I hope nobody gets me wrong, distribution of revenue from a given contribution is an important issue, and I do think this is a legitimate strike, but let’s be honest here. The dividing line is between those who actually get paid for writing, and those who want to be.
Those of you who actually have a stake in the game do a disservice to yourselves (and everyone else) when you are less than scrupulously honest about the situation.
A lot more than 500? How many?
The Guild says about half of members are employed in a year, so figure about 4,500.
I’m not sure how many of that make a “living.” Define living. Maybe I can get the stats.
Matt: This strike isn’t about minimum pay scales. It’s about residuals. Big, big difference. From what I heard, AMPTP has already agreed to about a 3% increase of WGA minimum upfront script payments. (There is a complicated tangential issue about the low-budget threshold which affects minimums, but I don’t know if that’s still on the table.)
As for numbers of people participating in the strike, it seems to be about 2000-3000 per day. There may only be about 60 people at certain gates, but we’re talking about a total of 30 or 40 gates over 14 locations, so, you know, do some math.
Matt,
got it.
Anyway, back on topic…kinda…I think the list of names in Variety is metionable if not mostly symbolic.
I think this strike is gonna mostly be about how much punishment we can take as a group. If we don’t take the DGA deal, then I’m guessing it’s going to be a long one…and that’s assuming the DGA and AMPTP can bang something out quickly.
Obviously our struggle isn’t gonna make any of us more open to opinions that differ from our own, but the in-fighting is useless. And weak. And selfish.
I blame Craig for having such a thin topic for today’s blog.
Can we please all direct our anger at the people that deserve it — the studios.
They are the one’s that acted like childs (chairs anyone? Storm out when you don’t get your way much?). They are the ones that lied (see back channel discussions). They are the ones that acted like bullies and FORCED this strike.
Let me repeat, they FORCED this strike. Anyone that does more than 20 seconds of research knows this. So don’t blame the victims, blame the rapists.
Be mad at them for firing assistants, for putting below the line people out of work, etc, etc.
Let’s not turn on each other when we all have a common enemy — Greed, errrr — the studios.
Um, actually, didn’t we start the fight about the chairs?
POW you remember Tawna Brawley?
Agreed. It’s not like the writers said to themselves, “Hey, wouldn’t it be really swell NOT work? That’s be fun!”
The studios are greed incarnate. They serve one master and one master alone — money. They will drive down anyone and anything in front of it gobble up as much as possible.
What’s most incredible is how some of the people working for studios are so loyal. What a joke. How do you get yourself in that company man mind set? Do you really think they company cares about you….at all?
Anyway, the point is, we should indeed direct all our anger to the proper source — the studios.
for the anal retentive, i missed an “a” in tawana. sorry.
oh shit, i didnt capitalize the “t” in Tawana. sorry again.
“What’s most incredible is how some of the people working for studios are so loyal. What a joke. How do you get yourself in that company man mind set?”
A form of Stockholm syndrome?
Malcolm,
“I just don’t think it’s not right for writers to go into certain types of criticism.”
Um…. what? I’m assuming there’s a typo there.
“The line to me is this: saying Craig is 100% wrong 100% of the time is fair. Accusing and implying that he’s crooked isn’t right.”
Saying he’s crooked is wrong. Saying he ACTS like someone who’s crooked is a reasonable observation. And, hey, thanks for leaping to my defense when that slimeball tried to tar me as an anti-semite. Nice to see you’re even handed in your principles.
But I agree with your overall contention. I agree vigorously. We’re a union at strike. We are, effectively, at war with the AMPTP. We need to win this one. Attacking the Guild, attacking our leadership, and attacking the men and women out on the line is the equivalent of criticizing your C.O. when you’re on the battlefield, with the enemy in earshot. Saying publicly, in a forum that gets quoted in the media that the strike leaders are stupid for only blockading one gate at Warners, or indicating that the only real show of support at the meeting last week was for the one moderate…. that’s okay, even when it’s demonstrably untrue. But saying the guy who does those things ACTS like a stooge isn’t?
Let me work on that for a while. I’ll get back to you when I see an angle whereby that makes a lick of sense.
Kay,
“I value what you and your crew do greatly. You are the backbones of television. I hope this is resolved as quickly as possible so you and your crew can get back to work.”
It’s a safe bet you’re speaking for all of us. I wonder how many of the folks responsible for this situation feel that way, though.
Shreve
“Are you ready to go back out and honor the SAG pickets even though you’ve just had a protracted stoppage? “
I can probably speak for a lot of my fellow writers out there - should that extremely unlikely eventuality come to pass, we will show the same level of support for SAG that they’ve showed for us. Eagerly, vigorously, and with tremendous gratitude. You’re aware, I trust, that SAG members are precluded from walking off the job by their own union, just like us. Neither of us is prevented from walking the line with other Guilds in sympathy. I’ll be on that line, should it ever come to pass, although I doubt it will carry as much weight with the media as it does when the guy who plays Chuck comes down to support us. But I’ll be there. Why wouldn’t we be?
“The issue that Working AD is bringing up is that his/her crew is out of work to no fault of their own. “
And we’re out of work through no fault of our own, too, thanks. Or are you saying it’s our fault that the AMPTP has forced this situation?
“And of those 500, how many (Craig Mazin (et all)) are essentially acting out of principle and not bottomline circumstance?”
What a bizarre question. Let me do a line off this hooker’s ass and get back to you.
Okay. So, let me see if I have this part right. A rich writer who’s gonna weather this strike just fine is acting out of principle, but a writer with an empty bank account, who doesn’t know how he’s making rent next month is putting himself out of work for the foreseeable future because of bottomline circumstance?
How odd. And up until now, I was admiring the principles of those folks. Now I see they’re just a bunch of opportunists.
The Guild’s new ad just went up:
http://img225.imageshack.us/my.php?image=notaworddi3.jpg
Craig,
“‘For all his talk about “the little guy,” I blame people like Craig for putting that attitude out there.’
People like me, or me?
Because I’m trying to get blamed for as much shit as possible. So far, so good.”
You, and people like you. I was really disappointed with your hardline stance on the showrunner walk-out. I think it’s easy for you to take a stance like that because you’re removed from what’s happening. Not blaming you for being removed, just saying that you are.
But let me expand my circle – you, people like you, and the WGA who don’t seem to want to put the rest of us out there. People complain that only the well-off writers are speaking for the Guild, well… that’s something the Guild is doing. With you, Craig, I’m seeing a detachment that bugs me a little. Maybe it has to do with you being so involved with your movie, I dunno. But I see it from Ted as well.
Thanks to the United Hollywood blog for actually interviewing people like us!
Dollygrip,
“Kay you’re my favorite. Now get off of here and write another post on your blog. The IA members all know you guys are aware of our problems. I think we restate them a lot because we’re so used to getting burned by creative guilds in our own past actions. We won’t let you forget now, and trust me, we won’t let you forget when we all walk a picket someday. I’m lucky enough to have moved over to commercials and (God help me) music videos, but on my next off day, I’ll be out there with you. Keep the faith.”
Thank you! For the record, I will not cross a picket line. Never have, never will. I’ve already begun to support people who are supporting us and those who are will always have my support.
DLW,
“Having said that, the vilification of one WGA member who continues directing and the comparison to the showrunners walking out seems a bit disingenuous. The showrunners have strength by acting in concert and are working out a common strategy through which to deal with the legal ramifications against one by responding as a group. Not saying it isn’t gutsy and inspirational. I bow down in awe and gratitude to these people, even the ones I wouldn’t want to spend five minutes in a room with.”
Not all of us who appreciate the showrunners’ sacrifice think Craig should walk off his movie. Craig is following the rules and shouldn’t be vilified for it. But it’s an individual choice and I don’t think I would make it. That doesn’t make Craig wrong, it just makes us different people.
Shreve,
“Re: your comments to Working AD… This has nothing to do with who runs out of money first. The issue that Working AD is bringing up is that his/her crew is out of work to no fault of their own. They didn’t have a chance to vote for/against a strike. They don’t stand to gain/lose what comes from this strike. They’re essentially along for the ride. They are collateral damage, but damage nonetheless. They are trying to be supportive since they recognize what it all means to their co-workers (WGA and non-WGA alike). But, they are taking hits here, too.”
Well, obviously. Show me the writer who’s too thick-headed to see that, and I’ll punch him in the heart. We don’t need to be reminded that there is collateral damage here. We know. I see the assistants every day, the ones who haven’t yet been fired. What about a guy making $400 a week? Where’s the assistant or PA love? And while the collateral damage has been reported, what comes back is, “Rich fat lazy fucking writers.” I am NOT one of those writers, and we are being severely under-represented. If all you got out of my post was that I’m going to run out of money first, please go read it again.
Working AD,
“Kay, I am not saying in any way that writers are not suffering during this strike. Nor am I saying that my crew is worse off than you or anyone else. This isn’t a competition of who gets hurt the most.
I was trying to say that there are other people who are not in your guild also caught up in this. I respect your guild, and I will not cross your lines. I will continue to provide whatever useful information I can. (I only got fooled by a rumor once, and I tend to learn from my mistakes).”
We KNOW that. We’d be idiots not to. But honestly, I’ve said how sorry I am and I don’t know what else you want me or any other writer to do. All I can do is say that I sympathize greatly and I’m sorry you’re caught in the middle. So… please tell me what else needs to be said!
Stephen Susco (#172)
I am pleased to stand corrected, I was startled because I thought the pictures I saw would reflect differently and there are at this point a fair number of them and they do not look anything like my Eagle Rock neighborhood. I cannot find a diversity study for writers so I will take you at your word. But I think a charge of race-baiting is unfair.
Josh Olson (#174)
I think it’s fine that you want more, even agree that you probably deserve more. I don’t have a problem with how much you make, just that historically of late in practice, you’re a guild for some of the people who sells themselves as part of a broader movement when it’s helpful, and is nowhere to be found it’s not.
Kay-
I hear you. I expect Craig and I are pretty different people, too. But I’ll stop short of stating what I “would” do in the same situation. Only because it’s a hell of a lot easier to be a hero in the abstract.
Also, I tried to email my name in to that add and it didn’t show up. Are they only taking West members’ names?
All the media coverage seems to be now about when the negotiations will continue again. It seems that the majority feels some sort of agreement will happen in January. The glass half empty lot seems to feel this will go on until summer. It seems that no one has hope that something will happen before the end of the year. Is that the consensus on this board? I know that wishful thinking won’t make it so, and that you all will strike for as long as need be - I’m just curious if anyone wants to share their theory of how this will probably play out and when…
Hmmm,
“I don’t have a problem with how much you make, just that historically of late in practice, you’re a guild for some of the people who sells themselves as part of a broader movement when it’s helpful, and is nowhere to be found it’s not.”
In what way?
Seriously. Edumacate me.
“Maybe you didn’t realize I was answering someone’s question.>>
In that particular case, you may be right… but Craig, I’ve seen you address similar comments in a very defensive manner.
Seriously, why should you care?
Personally, I think you should ignore those who take shots at somebody’s oeuvre, clearly intending to degrade spoofs and broad comedies, and not answer them every single time with “so and so thinks I’m funny” or “I sleep well at night.” I’m not sure why you feel compelled to take this bait repeatedly, especially since those who attack an established person invariably don’t have credits of their own to malign. I notice they tend to post anonymously, so that says it all.
Appropros of this, when I referenced some past praise for myself… somebody took a shot at me. My point was, perceived hubris naturally incites it.
There are people posting much more daunting and important questions for you. I’d rather see you address those than the petty schoolyard crap.
How many WGA/DGA members with current directing jobs have walked off their directing jobs?
I know of a score who are performing their directing duties, or who did continue to perform them after the WGA strike was called. Including John Wells, who was quite open about it.
I know about a half dozen yet to start in TV who intend to start as scheduled.
What I’m not finding are the WGA/DGA members who aren’t going to direct. Anyone know of any?
I haven’t looked at the list of pending feature starts.
Josh,
“But I agree with your overall contention. I agree vigorously. We’re a union at strike. We are, effectively, at war with the AMPTP. We need to win this one. Attacking the Guild, attacking our leadership, and attacking the men and women out on the line is the equivalent of criticizing your C.O. when you’re on the battlefield, with the enemy in earshot. Saying publicly, in a forum that gets quoted in the media that the strike leaders are stupid for only blockading one gate at Warners, or indicating that the only real show of support at the meeting last week was for the one moderate…. that’s okay, even when it’s demonstrably untrue. But saying the guy who does those things ACTS like a stooge isn’t?”
THANK you for saying that. Craig – AND PEOPLE LIKE HIM (emphasis for Craig) – has not shown solidarity with the rest of us.
203,“It’s a safe bet you’re speaking for all of us. I wonder how many of the folks responsible for this situation feel that way, though.”
That’s a good question, and one I’d like the answer to as well. I choose to think that the WGA leadership IS aware but the AMPTP… they’re coming across as the heartless bastards I’ve always seen them to be. I mean, firing assistants? Really? Their salaries are gonna break you?
“I can probably speak for a lot of my fellow writers out there - should that extremely unlikely eventuality come to pass, we will show the same level of support for SAG that they’ve showed for us. Eagerly, vigorously, and with tremendous gratitude. You’re aware, I trust, that SAG members are precluded from walking off the job by their own union, just like us. Neither of us is prevented from walking the line with other Guilds in sympathy. I’ll be on that line, should it ever come to pass, although I doubt it will carry as much weight with the media as it does when the guy who plays Chuck comes down to support us. But I’ll be there. Why wouldn’t we be?”
Well said, and agreement from this corner. Seeing TV’s Chuck on the line last week was nice.
“And we’re out of work through no fault of our own, too, thanks. Or are you saying it’s our fault that the AMPTP has forced this situation?”
Exactly.
Josh,
“Okay. So, let me see if I have this part right. A rich writer who’s gonna weather this strike just fine is acting out of principle, but a writer with an empty bank account, who doesn’t know how he’s making rent next month is putting himself out of work for the foreseeable future because of bottomline circumstance?”
Sure! Because I know damned well that I’m gonna rake it in when all of this is over. It’s all about the money, baby!
Fact — the non-WGA crew did not have a voice in your strike vote. They are not part of your strike, nor stand to lose or gain from your eventual deal. Just the same, they did not have a voice in the AMPTP’s position or their entrenchment.
You, as a member of the WGA, did have a voice and a vote. You, as a WGA member, have fifty percent of the responsibility for the resolution of the strike. The BTL crews have zero percent of the vote, zero percent of the voice, and are caught in the middle. Sure, they’d like to show support and are unified in your mission. But, please don’t minimize your Guild’s role as merely being “caught in the middle” as if there is no accountability. Both sides are accountable. BOTH SIDES. Don’t fool yourself.
Re: Respecting a SAG strike… Only time wil tell. When the “no strike” provision is pointed out in your contract, we’ll see just how many put their jobs at risk. Especially if this strike lasts a while.
Kay —
Re: How I read your post, I took your suggestion. I re-read it. I think it’s pretty clear to me. Perhaps somebody else might find a different meaning.
Here it is:
“I don’t know how many times this has to be said before you get it — CREW PEOPLE ARE NOT THE ONLY PEOPLE SUFFERING. If the median in the Guild is indeed around $90,000 (and I find that hard to believe), I have never even come close to that. The one thing that’s never taken into account is writing partners. We split a salary so we make half of what other writers make.
You’re working on a show, correct? I haven’t worked on a show in two years. I’ve existed by selling pilots, writing freelance episodes and — oh, yeah — with residuals. So you and your crew are doing far, far better than I’ve been doing.
You’re still working. I walked away from another freelance script that has now gone away and that will likely not be there when the strike is over, either.
I’m sorry you and your crew will be out of work. The collateral damage that will be done to people outside our Guild is devastating. I wish there was another way to solve this, but IMO the studios are trying to break the unions and I don’t think you want that, either. The WGA just happens to be the first on the firing line. But please realize that you are not the only ones who are being deeply affected by this. I’ll be out of money long before you will.
I hope this doesn’t come off as an attack, because it isn’t meant to be. I’m just tired of people assuming that all us writers are unconcerned about how long a strike will last because we’ve got bags of money. For all his talk about “the little guy,” I blame people like Craig for putting that attitude out there. Because people like Craig are the spokespeople for the Guild. They don’t put people like me or many, many of my friends out there in the press or the public eye. Gee. I wonder where the “rich greedy writers” notion comes from…
I value what you and your crew do greatly. You are the backbones of television. I hope this is resolved as quickly as possible so you and your crew can get back to work.”
Kay, it’s about accountability. Nobody is saying that you and the WGA members will not be taking a financial hit here.
This isn’t a pissing contest to compare battle scars. Publically, your industry peers generally support you. Privately, I can’t say it’s as unanimous. But, PLEASE don’t try to minimize the impact that you and your Guild have over this to those of us that didn’t have a vote or a voice. To do so only perpetuates the “rich fat lazy writers” notion that you wish to dispell.
DLW,
“I hear you. I expect Craig and I are pretty different people, too. But I’ll stop short of stating what I “would” do in the same situation. Only because it’s a hell of a lot easier to be a hero in the abstract.”
An excellent point. I sure would like to think I’d stay principled, but I’m not in Craig’s shoes. I DO know, and can say unequivocally, that I would not cross a picket line.
Natalie,
“All the media coverage seems to be now about when the negotiations will continue again. It seems that the majority feels some sort of agreement will happen in January. The glass half empty lot seems to feel this will go on until summer. It seems that no one has hope that something will happen before the end of the year. Is that the consensus on this board? I know that wishful thinking won’t make it so, and that you all will strike for as long as need be - I’m just curious if anyone wants to share their theory of how this will probably play out and when…”
I feel like I’ve heard all the theories and they all have some merit. So the truth of the matter is, we really don’t know what will happen and when it will happen. I’ve heard that it won’t go through the holidays (personally a BIG fan of this one). I’ve heard the AMPTP won’t even talk until January (boo), and I talked to someone yesterday who went, ‘Yeah, this’ll go on for a year.” Not a big fan of that one. With nothing to think about but the strike, it’s virtually impossible NOT to speculate. But really, we don’t control anything beyond what we can do every day. Hopefully, it’ll have some impact and force the two parties back to the table.
Shreve,
“Kay, it’s about accountability. Nobody is saying that you and the WGA members will not be taking a financial hit here.”
Really? Hmm. That’s not how it seems to me.
“This isn’t a pissing contest to compare battle scars.”
I’m not saying I’m worse off than crew members, but let’s face it, with all the talk about rich Hollywood writers, it starts to wear on those of us who have been taking a hit all year for this.
As you pointed out, we did get to vote. But that doesn’t mean that I personally had a lot of control over the situation, nor did I have any control over how the pre-strike bullshit FUCKED me out of earning a living this year. If somebody says, “I’m really going to be hurt by this,” then I’m not allowed to say, “No shit, me too” because I got a vote? Seriously?
“Publically, your industry peers generally support you. Privately, I can’t say it’s as unanimous.”
I’m not surprised. People voted Bush into office (apparently) but privately, it wasn’t quite as unanimous. Honestly, I’m not really sure what the argument is here. Because all I can glean from you continuing to point out the obvious is that I’m too fat and happy to figure it out on my own.
“But, PLEASE don’t try to minimize the impact that you and your Guild have over this to those of us that didn’t have a vote or a voice. To do so only perpetuates the “rich fat lazy writers” notion that you wish to dispell.”
Come on. I’m not trying to minimize anything. You’ve got to lose the double-standard here. My Guild voted to authorize this strike, so I’m not allowed to tell you how it’s been fucking me all year and will continue to fuck me while it’s going on?
That perpetuates the “everybody hates rich Hollywood writers” notion that you wish to dispel.
I appreciate your reasoned tone throughout this, Shreve, but seriously! Augh!
Oh, fuck. Norman Mailer died.
Dammit.
Kay, I appreciate the response and agree with your sentiments. I have to say that I am dissapointed that IATSE leadership hasn’t been more vocal in all of this. They know many of its members will suffer from this strike and yet there has been no formal statement or nudging or anything from the IA camp to help get negotiations rolling or provide relief to its members. I for one, would be open to ideas like putting Thanksgiving food baskets together for those families who are really feeling a pinch - or something along those line. IATSE should have a strike fund available for their union members. Maybe something like this is already in place and I am unaware. It is really hard to get IATSE information because all of the seperate chapters are so isolated. I guess what I’m saying is while we can complain that the WGA and AMPTP has put us out of work, we should complain that our own union is doing nothing to intercept it or even lighten its burden on its members.
I have a question in regard to crew work. The writers’ strike will take away work for scripted shows, but is any of that replaced by the uptick in reality show production? My hunch is to say some but not all…but then again, I don’t know shit about this.
Obviously, reality shows need camera people, but what other positions overlap with scripted shows? Is the pay scale the same? Does a reality show use more/less/about the same amount of crew as a scripted show?
I would appreciate hearing specifics from anybody who’s worked both types of production. If it’s already been answered somewhere, just point me in the right direction. Thanks.
Natalie, I’ve mentioned knowing someone on the AMPTP side who thought this situation was bleak going in, described the air in the negotiation rooms as “poisonous” and who thought the writers were all “crazy.”
Obviously, this person is biased.
Patric Verrone showed he was willing to truly negotiate when he removed what the producers said was the one “stumbling block,” namely the DVD issue, from the table. The rest is misery.
There are those who think the Governor might be able to exert pressure to get both sides back at the table mext week, a true miracle, but he can’t make them arrive at a settlement. There needs to be a formula for this new terrain, with the dilemma of two more unions waiting in the wings.
That being said, Governor Schwarzenegger’s website features a mailing address and fax number. His office as a policy doesn’t respond to emails, but snail mail and faxes due warrant responses. I suggest sending a fax to his office urging him to intervene now. Others are doing so.
I’ve also heard a strategy of letting the writers suffer through Thanksgiving, Christmas and the beginning of the new year before offering a return to bargaining. Besides punishing them with a miserable holiday season, it would also create a new level of anxiety about 2008. Hence, it might leave the Guild feeling weakened and more amenable to anything being presented.
I’ve also heard, in the other side’s purview, that a long and painful strike will guarantee another twenty year refrain from yet another one.
I’d like to see a return to business, but we’re laying out groundwork that will define compensation for current and future innovation.
Rather than have an ax to grind here, perhaps BTL folks effected by this strike should fax the Governor. It seems more useful than attacking people here, although I suppose you can do both.
Shreve
“PLEASE don’t try to minimize the impact that you and your Guild have over this to those of us that didn’t have a vote or a voice.”
You keep pointing the finger at us, keep ignoring the people who are running this town.
Do you think the sort of response you’re giving here isn’t factored into the AMPTP’s thinking? Do you really believe they don’t know that there’s a tendency on the part of some people to blame the workers and not management for this sort of thing? How Draconian would their offers have to be before you’d acknowledge that a strike is the only reasonable recourse?
Daer Hmm -
I did not realize Shonda Rhimes (creator of Gray’s and Privatte Practice) was a white man. She looks like ablack woman to me. Then again I don’t share your shill goggles.
If they could do what we do, we’d already be fired. The sad truth is there are a rare few who have the talent and tenacity to do this. It may look easy, but it aint.
If anyone could do it, they would. Because they’re certainly trying.
Natalie,
“Kay, I appreciate the response and agree with your sentiments. I have to say that I am dissapointed that IATSE leadership hasn’t been more vocal in all of this. They know many of its members will suffer from this strike and yet there has been no formal statement or nudging or anything from the IA camp to help get negotiations rolling or provide relief to its members. I for one, would be open to ideas like putting Thanksgiving food baskets together for those families who are really feeling a pinch - or something along those line. IATSE should have a strike fund available for their union members. Maybe something like this is already in place and I am unaware. It is really hard to get IATSE information because all of the seperate chapters are so isolated. I guess what I’m saying is while we can complain that the WGA and AMPTP has put us out of work, we should complain that our own union is doing nothing to intercept it or even lighten its burden on its members.”
I know IATSE and the WGA aren’t exactly fast friends. The WGA has a strike fund. Does IATSE? It would be great if all guilds could support this strike because any other guild or union that goes on strike in the future would have the full support of the writers I’ve talked to, that’s for sure. I’d be interested to know if/how IATSE is taking care of its members.
ABIO:
“There are those who think the Governor might be able to exert pressure to get both sides back at the table mext week, a true miracle, but he can’t make them arrive at a settlement. There needs to be a formula for this new terrain, with the dilemma of two more unions waiting in the wings.”
My understanding is that there are people trying to work out a formula. I don’t pretend to understand the minutiae of the negotiating and these formulas but one thing we can all agree on is that if the studios aren’t making any money off the internets, 0% of $0 is still $0.
“I’d like to see a return to business, but we’re laying out groundwork that will define compensation for current and future innovation.”
Couldn’t agree more.
“Rather than have an ax to grind here, perhaps BTL folks effected by this strike should fax the Governor. It seems more useful than attacking people here, although I suppose you can do both.”
Heh. That’s a good idea, though. The faxing, not the attacking.
ABIO, I actually faxed Arnold earllier in the week. It is no secret why he wants to stay out of it. It kind of is a no win for him. But, I think he is being cowardly and neglectful not to mention that retarded statement he made about how writers won’t feel the financial strain of the strike. That statement made him sound uninformed and anti-WGA frankly. Now Bill Clinton getting involved? That is my wet dream.
Mike, from my knowledge (which isn’t great mind you) Reality shows not only have a much smaller crew, but pay crappy too. Of course whether you are talking about American Idol or Big Brother will make a difference because they are two different types of shows. Also, crew members like my husband would prefer to keep scripted shows up and running by not working reality shows. I know my husband is a lot happier when he is working on a show that he actually likes and watches.
Thanks Natalie… with regard to the pay, I assume they are at least union shows, crew-wise? Or no?
Kay, you are right. The WGA and IATSE normally don’t practice anything that would resemble solidarity. Unfortunately, IATSE does not even practice solidarity within its own guild. There are many members that are dissapointed in its leadership and feel that they have just begged and rolled over during the years. The guild is enormous and all the sectors are clearly looking out for themselves instead of each other. Of course, that may be a biproduct of the far too long everyman for himself Bush regime, but I digress.
The point is I appreciate the amazing health care that we get through our union. And I think something like 9% off residuals make that possible. So, for the crew members who think that we only stand to lose from this, it isn’t entirely true. Let’s support the writers and question our guild leaders as to why they are being so passive.
Mike, I think most of them are union. It is almost impossible to find non-union tv work now. The ones that are available pay way less than union scale - to the point that collecting unemployment makes more sense if you don’t need the experience on your resume.
another wga writer (#221)
One. That is good. Again, as previously stated, I’m happy to stand corrected. My original point really flowed from a business article about Tyler Perry’s new show on TBS. One of the points of the article was that Perry wasn’t gonna get what he wanted Hollywood, partially due to being African-American with a very specific perspective. So he realized it and moved the game and Hollywood came running (and I believe he’ll get substantially more than 4 cents per DVD). It seems to me that various rap/hip-hop (to the extent they didn’t sell out) have done the same.
And again, I don’t think you’re wrong to ask for a bigger slice. What makes me angry is the pretense that some autoworker in Michigan is going to benefit from this, or even closer to home, an IATSE member, because at the end of the day, the collective action of the writers is a smart negotiating ploy, but is not going to be some type of IWW like victory. The WGA has not and is not going to be showing up for actors on strike, for teamsters on strike, for janitors on strike (how many times has the SEIU struck corporate entities in LA in the last few years - did you ever guild notice or see info posted on the WGA site?), for assistants (god, forget any other class of people, if they ever managed to all go out on strike, they could bring the industry to its knees in a day). So if the truth is, and it is, that this is collective action for some of the people, why am I a shill for pointing that out? I’m gonna go out on a limb and quote Marx (cause he’s a brilliant analyst, though his solution wasn’t so great) - you are only going to stand with me when you are me and if you’re collecting pay from studios under the WGA Agreement each year, you are probably in no imminent danger of being me. And if I stand with you, then I’m gonna feel really foolish and really burned when you don’t show up for me (and you are not showing up for me). So, those of who are not WGA, we’re grown-ups, these are the ups and downs of life and we’ll deal with it. But don’t ask me to swallow how what you’re doing helps me, or god forbid convince someone not in the WGA to sacrifice themselves for this cause - because there’s just no proof of any kind to suggest the WGA acts reciprocally in that respect (and plenty of evidence to the contrary).
It’s a bit overly optimistic to hope that Arnold Schwarzenegger will get involved in this matter in anything more than a token statement or two or a phone call here and there. I would further suggest that waiting for an ex-President to jump in will be no more fruitful than waiting for Godot. Bill Clinton is not going to get involved in an entertainment labor dispute in California while his wife is running for President. I’d love to think we were that important in the greater scheme of things, but let’s face it, that’s not the case.
The real work of negotiating a contract will be up to the parties involved. I would love to see some kind of a 3rd party help everyone get back to talking, but I don’t see anyone volunteering yet. If it happens, I’ll be very happy to see it.
But we’re still only in the first week of this. I fully expect it to go many more before it’s done. That’s why I said to think of this as a marathon and not a sprint. The AMPTP, for the reasons I laid out, has no incentive to immediately come running to the table. They’d be quite happy to wait through the holidays and then try to hardball the WGA in January. In the meantime, they dump all the development deals they don’t want and trim their overhead. On paper, they won’t be in trouble yet. I believe the real test will come in January - as that’s the last chance to save the TV season as we know it. Once you get into February, the season becomes very difficult, and once you pass Valentine’s Day, we’re pretty much unable to make it. The AMPTP already knows this - so they’ll wait until the very end to deal. As I doubt the WGA will back down, this will likely make the next wave of talks even more contentious than the last discussions. But if we pass V-Day, I don’t see talks starting up again for another four months - by which point you will likely see new contracts already made with the DGA and SAG.
I hope I’m wrong about this. I hope that both sides come back to the table and work this out. But I see no indication that this will happen. Between Nick Counter saying to TV Week that he won’t talk to the WGA because “it’s up to them, they’re on strike” and people here blaming the entire situation on the AMPTP, there’s too much polarization for me to believe that the right thing will happen. Each side seems to want to completely blame the other side.
And I don’t blame the writers for the strike. I blame both sides. It’s not the writers’ fault that the AMPTP made a horrible offer. But putting out statements like “we will not discuss management’s rollback proposals, not now, not ever” sends a message to the rest of us that we’re caught between two very angry combatants who both need to find a way to work together.
By the way, I was wrong about the federal mediator. Mediators were brought in during the 1988 strike and they didn’t really make any difference. And it doesn’t appear that they will this time.
Hmmmmm #207:
Sorry if you thought the “race-baiting” comment was unfair. But you did, after all, suddenly start talking about how many white writers you saw out there — in a discussion that had absolutely nothing to do about race.
If it is a topic of interest to you, the latest WGA diversity report (May 8th of this year) can be found here: http://www.wga.org/subpage_whoweare.aspx?id=922.
Hmmm,
“What makes me angry is the pretense that some autoworker in Michigan is going to benefit from this, or even closer to home, an IATSE member, because at the end of the day, the collective action of the writers is a smart negotiating ploy, but is not going to be some type of IWW like victory. The WGA has not and is not going to be showing up for actors on strike, for teamsters on strike, for janitors on strike (how many times has the SEIU struck corporate entities in LA in the last few years - did you ever guild notice or see info posted on the WGA site?), for assistants (god, forget any other class of people, if they ever managed to all go out on strike, they could bring the industry to its knees in a day). So if the truth is, and it is, that this is collective action for some of the people, why am I a shill for pointing that out? “
You’re not a shill. You’re presumptuous and misinformed. Nobody said the auto workers were going to benefit, so please stop with that. And as Natalie pointed out, IATSE’s health plan owes a certain percentage to residuals. If there aren’t any reruns and the guilds aren’t getting any internet money, goodbye, residuals.
You presume that the entire WGA won’t stand up for the guilds and unions that are standing up now. You’re flat-out wrong. As for assistants, you’re quite a disingenuous young thing, aren’t you? Nobody knows better than the writers that the assistants are being completely fucked, and it’s the AMPTP doing the fucking.
Seriously, where do you get the idea that the WGA isn’t going to stand up for anyone? What made you so bitter and angry?
Hmmm?
Working AD,
“But we’re still only in the first week of this. I fully expect it to go many more before it’s done. That’s why I said to think of this as a marathon and not a sprint. The AMPTP, for the reasons I laid out, has no incentive to immediately come running to the table. They’d be quite happy to wait through the holidays and then try to hardball the WGA in January. In the meantime, they dump all the development deals they don’t want and trim their overhead. On paper, they won’t be in trouble yet. I believe the real test will come in January - as that’s the last chance to save the TV season as we know it.”
It’s not this TV season that’s truly in jeopardy. It’s next year’s TV season. They are trying to put pilots into production but without any showrunners, it’s not an easy process. People — with a few despicable exceptions — have abandoned their pilots. The longer this thing goes, the more pressure is put on the 2008-2009 season. The AMPTP may be willing to forego this season but next year’s? I’m thinking not so much. They know that when the audience goes away, they aren’t likely to return.
If I were a true conspiracy theorist, I’d think that people like Chernin and the other asshats who bought internet companies want the networks to go under so they can migrate everything to their own little sites and keep the talent out of it.
But then I’m not a conspiracy theorist.
Working AD, I thought I read in Variety that Nick Counter insisted that they would not go back to the table as long as the WGA was on strike. So, he isn’t really saying that it is up to the WGA to negotiate, but instead seems to be saying that they would have to cease the strike to get the talking to begin. Clearly, this is a crazy statement that makes the public believe that it is the AMPTP that is being stubborn and unreasonable. How does the WGA work around that?
Josh Olson wrote:
“Not in the least. I’ve showed up every day. I’ve supported the strike, and, unlike some, I’ve recognized how the rules of the road changed once it began. Unlike some folks. But I haven’t even come close to stepping up. Neither have you. Neither has Craig.”
I assume you’ve stopped providing services to the movie you’re trying to direct, just like the showrunners have stopped providing services? Or are you still talking to the producers, trying to cast, get financing, crew…
Kay, if the 07-08 season crashes due to the strike, it’s not likely that the networks will be able to mount the typical pilot season. They do have some completed pilot scripts, although far less than the number they would like. This means that they would need to go into production on shows they would normally have turned down. And yes, you’re right that they won’t have showrunners to supervise them. (Although it is possible to just shoot the pilot script as is, and then do reshoots after the strike is over. And if the show goes to series, the strike would be over by that point anyway)
I personally think that if the season goes down, the networks will have a choice to make regarding the upfront presentations in May. If the strike is still going on, then they either have to present Reality America as their new schedules, or they have to wait until the strike is over to make the determination. I’d think the latter is more prudent.
But either way, you’re looking at a 2008 TV season that will likely look very similar to the 2007 one. Anything performing decently would have to be brought back, as the networks wouldn’t be able to replace much this time around.
That is, unless the studios fire all the showrunners, as Nikki Finke reported with the Fox rumor yesterday. (Turns out she jumped the gun on that one…)
It’s not really a why sort of question. I do. I care when people suggest that I write the movies I do for any reason beyond the fact that I love them.
Nothing I can really do about caring.
Working AD,
Just wanted to direct my question to you, since you might know some of the answers. Do you know how a reality show crew compares with a scripted show crew in terms of size, pay, and types of positions available?
Also to put it bluntly, is it better or worse work than a scripted show?
Natalie, Nick Counter’s intransigence was part of my point. That was why I mentioned his TV Week interview from after the strike started. Before the strike, he told TV Week that the AMPTP would continue to negotiate even if there was a strike because “there are no divorces in this town”. This was a proper acknowledgement that a deal will have to be made at some point.
But once the strike began, Counter gave another interview where his tone suddenly became much more hostile and shrill. He refused to openly say that he wouldn’t talk with the WGA unless they stopped picketing. But he implied it in a big way. And he made comments that sounded like he was genuinely angry that the situation unfolded like it did. One comment was quite revealing. He says that he was under specific instructions from his bosses to stop the negotiations if the WGA actually went out on strike. So he followed his instructions as soon as that happened.
I absolutely agree that the AMPTP has to agree to return to the table for talks to resume. And I agree that the WGA has offered to go back but the AMPTP has remained silent other than to offer rebuttals on their website. (And I would add, other than to make comments to Reporter and Variety journalists that then appear in stories about how futile the strike is, or how they might turn to the UK writers for help, etc.)
This refusal by the AMPTP right now is what leads me to think they’re going to wait until January. Counter has already stated to one of the trade magazines that he expects to negotiate with the DGA next, and I think he’s right. If nothing has happened in the next week or two, the DGA will get involved and start the early negotiations. And I expect that those will be wrapped up before February. But you never know, things could get just as messy with the DGA - I don’t expect them to “fold just like pup tents” as Nikki Finke has opined.
Working AD,
“But either way, you’re looking at a 2008 TV season that will likely look very similar to the 2007 one. Anything performing decently would have to be brought back, as the networks wouldn’t be able to replace much this time around.”
We’d better not be on strike anymore because everyone involved with those shows is on the line! I don’t think they can really do that. They’ll get hammered by the advertisers and then the revenue will really tank. They need new shows. They need new ad rates.
“That is, unless the studios fire all the showrunners, as Nikki Finke reported with the Fox rumor yesterday. (Turns out she jumped the gun on that one…)”
Wait. Hold on. Nikki jumped the gun on something????
They can fire whomever they want, but you can’t just hire anyone to run a show. And as we’ve seen time and time again, first-time showrunners are always paired up with experienced showrunners. And CBS has a rule that they don’t allow first-time showrunners. So I don’t know who would do the showrunning, exactly. Neither do they, so what a silly thing to even contemplate!
Mike, I really don’t know much about reality TV, other than that the DGA has been getting some jurisdiction over them. My understanding is that it pays a lot less and tends to be non-union in any area that the producer can get away with. I don’t believe it is covered by IA, and obviously it is a sore spot with the WGA. With reality shows, I tend to think of them as cheap. In budget and quality.
Crews that are laid off from all the TV shows will be scrambling to find if there is any work. But given that we’re going into the holidays, it’s unlikely many people will find anything. It’s more likely that people might get onto one of the limited number of pilots that will actually get done, or that they’ll get onto one of the features that is coming up. But that assumes they have feature contacts who will hire them.
As someone cleverly opined in another thread, firing all the showrunners would be like McDonald’s firing the hamburger.
Working AD, the DGA only includes director and assistant directors, right? How much does the guild depend on residuals and does it matter if we are talking about tv or movies? Is it true that DGA members get the majority of their pay through production and that residuals just make up a tiny bit? What about health care and pension? Do residuals matter there like they do in the IATSE guild? Why do people think the DGA will take whatever they are offered?
Sorry, didn’t mean to throw twenty questions out at ya…
Travis,
“You and Malcolm are both on Strike — isn’t that stepping up?”
Uh… no. Sorry. We’re on strike. So we strike. Just like every other writer in our Guild. Signing a piece of paper saying you’re going to honor your Guild’s strike isn’t stepping up, either. You’re hearing a harsh judgement where there is none. I’m not criticizing people for “just” striking, I’m just saying that that’s not stepping up. The whole thing reminded me of that Chris Rock routine -
“I take CARE of my kids.”
“Fool, you’re SUPPOSED to.”
You don’t get a medal for walking the line, and you sure as hell don’t get a medal for saying you’re not going to work during the strike. I walk the line because that’s part of the deal when your union’s on strike. I signed the ad because that’s ALSO what you do.
The showrunners are definitely stepping up - going above and beyond in the hopes that it will make a real difference. That’s impressive. I haven’t done anything even close to that, nor have most of us. That’s fine. Hopefully, we don’t have to. We’ll see.
Alan,
“I assume you’ve stopped providing services to the movie you’re trying to direct, just like the showrunners have stopped providing services? Or are you still talking to the producers, trying to cast, get financing, crew…”
Why would you assume anything else?
I’M ON STRIKE.
And just to clarify something - my situation is NOTHING like the showrunners’. They’re walking off shows in progress, risking a great deal of money, and possibly losing any right they have to their creations. My movie’s on hold until the strike’s over. We have financing, but I’m not casting, meeting with crew, or doing any other business related with the film. I speak to my producer every few days because he’s one of my best friends, and that’s what one does with friends. The script’s been done for ages, but I still own it, so I suppose I could tweak it if I wanted to.
Frankly, you couldn’t pay me to do it right now, all union loyalty aside. It’s a low budget indie flick, and the idea of going into that situation without being able to do on-set rewrites is insane.
‘Edumacate’ isn’t a word, Josh.
But keep on edutaining us -yeah, go on
Kay,
When the 2008 TV season starts, the strike will already be over. Whether that’s in January or July depends on how the negotiations go down.
My point regarding the upfronts is that I don’t think they can do them while all the showrunners are out on strike. So what do the networks tell the advertisers to get those new adrates? “Well, in another few months, we’ll have some great shows, so promises us some really nice rates, huh?”
I’m assuming you’re being sarcastic about Nikki Finke. I have found her to be somewhat informative but mostly unhelpful in her gossiping and rumoring during the past few weeks. Both her tone and her disdain for the players tends to infect her writing to the point that it can be hard to read her posts. And rather than just keep people informed, she’s taken the extra step to tick everyone off. But so far, she’s the only one who has been able to get certain info out - such as the WGA side of the story from last Sunday.
And I agree that the firing of the showrunners would be a ridiculous concept. As would the idea of taking everyone to court and holding them liable for their budgets. I asked the very question you just did to the people in my production office when they speculated about it. I asked who the networks get to do this job after they get rid of everyone. It’s like the child who throws a tantrum and breaks everything in his/her room. What do you do the next day? Just sit in the mess? But the guys in the office were all brought to a fever pitch by Nikki Finke reporting the Fox rumor without corraborating it first.
I just graduated last June from the UCLA School of Theater, Film and Television with an MFA in screenwriting, so I have a lot of tuition bills I’d like paid with either the sale of a script, pitch or job on television. So this strike couldn’t have come at a worst time for me. That said…
Writers have to stick together. Not in some I support you but…I have some loopholes I just might use to justify working way. No, writers have to stick together and sacrifice. This strike is going to be painful because I have a feeling the studios have banked on writers eventually crumbling when the mortgage payments get dicey, the tuition payments come due and some writers cross the line.
The only way to fight that is to maintain solidarity and pressure. I fully expect to be a part of the WGA in the coming years, and as a result I want fair compensation for the work I create, not crumbs off the table. And this small pain of standing up means that I will get that fair compensation. And I’m sure that twenty years from now, someone will ask me to stand up. And I will.
My screenwriter career started only after a pretty successful career as an author. And I’m still amazed at how writers in Hollywood are not second class citizens, but fourth class. Stand up WGA, we’re all behind you.
“But that assumes they have feature contacts who will hire them”
That is so true. It seems that most either work features, tv or commercials. When you are starting out, you will work anything you can get to gain contacts. For someone like my husband who has worked mostly solid tv for the last 13 years, commercial and feature contacts are few. I think that is why this is so scary for the crew that is losing their jobs. Many of them really can’t easily go find another in this current climate. It isn’t like your pilot show not being picked up so you go work on some other show. It is that there are no shows being produced right now to jump to…
Sorry, that was me.
“Nothing I can really do about caring.”
When someone has passion for what they’re doing, there’s no contesting that.
I guess I’m sick and tired of “parody” being used as a dismissive term against what others perceive as “real” writing.
I love Steve Martin, who’s currently regarded as a man of letters, but anyone who might want to cast aspersions on his past persona of a “wild and crazy guy” are the ones who drain all the fun out of life.
Hmmm,
I wasn’t all that surprised to find that a lot of the conversations I overhear out there is in regards to the assistants. How to keep them safe. How to help them if they’re not. Any and every conversation about assistants is had with the utmost respect for them.
Many members of SAG are out there, marching alongside the writers. Look at ANY of the MANY photos out there on the internets. You will see the signs. ALL of the writers are incredibly grateful. How can that possibly be forgotten?
Just because there ain’t a lot of respect going on over here doesn’t mean there isn’t humility, awe and gratitude happening out there.
Craig,
Could you please delete #9? That’s not me.
Natalie,
The DGA covers all directors and assistant directors for filmed productions (as well as high def),and also covers associate directors, technical coordinators and stage managers for taped broadcasts.
Residuals overwhelmingly go the directors, but assistant directors can get a tiny percentage if it’s a feature film. I’m not sure if the ADs really get anything from DVD, but I think it’s so small that if JAG sold a gajillion bucks on the years I was on it, I’d maybe see 50 cents.
Many directors live on both their residuals and their salaries. All the below the line DGA members live off their production salaries. Residuals are just a nice bonus that maybe happens once in a blue moon for us ADs. For the directors, it’s a much bigger deal, and they will fight to keep theirs.
I really don’t know how the DGA residuals affect the health and pension materials, but I believe it’s the same as the WGA and SAG.
People like Nikki Finke expect the DGA to roll over in negotiations because they think of the guild as being too close to the producers. The feeling around the watercooler is that the DGA tends to sell out the other unions and guilds to the producers, because the DGA is the management arm of the production. Either the DGA is on set in the form of the director, or it’s the AD behind him or her making sure everything gets done. For the past few negotiations, the DGA has gone in well in advance to negotiate a new contract with the AMPTP, precisely to avoid the situation that has now occurred. To some people, this is smart negotiating strategy, as it avoids the insecurity and panic that can happen when you take it down to the wire. To others, this is a sign that the DGA will just sell out once again and the AMPTP will force that contract on everyone else, who will then have to accept it. This isn’t true - and that’s demonstrated by the 1988 WGA Strike, which was caused by the AMPTP trying to do this.
Thanks for the info Working AD. I have mad respect for Assistant Directors. Most of you have to endure long grueling PA journeys living on peanuts before enbarking on the task of traffic directing cranky tired crews and cast.
Kay & Josh —
I respectfully disagree with your responses to my earlier posts. Both of you accuse me of pointing a finger at the WGA and blaming them for this strike. Read any of my posts on any thread. I have always been in support, and if anything, have encouraged you to step up the pickets and force the issue with the AMPTP. I have always said that BOTH SIDES share the responsibility for the strike and for it’s outcome. I have also (and will continue to state if necessary) than many others that didn’t have a voice in this conflict are caught up in its effects.
You continue to attack me on a personal level for voicing the concerns of your BTL peers. To turn a blinds eye to them — you need their support in your fight with management — would be foolish. Not a threat. Just a fact. Stop questioning our support for the WGA. But, we want to see action ON BOTH SIDES to reach a solution and we want to see it soon.
Kay — You’ve gone after Craig and Ted time and again. They’ve given you the opportunity to continue to take your shots and haven’t deleted your posts. Pretty commendable, I’d say. But, if you have a problem with them, may I suggest you take your posts elsewhere. Or, just simply move on to other business.
Free speech and open debate is what makes the world go around. Hopefully it makes us stronger in the end. One thousand workers have one thousand opinions, none more important than the other. Isn’t America great?
You’ve also gone after anyone else that has voiced concerns over taking financial hits as a result of this strike. Do you think that you are the only one that took lumps leading up to this strike? Do you think that other crew and writers and vendors and others aren’t getting the shit kicked out of them, staring at a long holiday season where even a defacto strike would put their families at risk? You seem to think that nobody else in this business is sharing your (and your writer’s asst’s.) financial challenge. We all share, to varying degrees, similar experiences to yours. We’re all directly effected. We are all just as unhappy. The $400/wk writer’s assistant and the $400k producer. We’re all financially screwed for the forseeable future.
You implied that I was blaming the WGA for everything. I don’t fault the writers at all. Posters like Working AD and Hmmmmm don’t, either. But, you continue to take this “holier than thou” attitude that nobody except YOU understands the impact that this strike has. You’re wrong. You continue to insult, and yet ironically you’re the one that appears to be misinformed. Perhaps it is your own bitterness, not everyone elses.
If this is your first industry strike, it’s going to get worse before it gets better. This is not a pep rally. The fallout is widespread and devistating, even if a strike ends quickly. I speak from over 25 years experience in this industry, seeing many friends and co-workers lose homes, careers and marriages. I pray that it will not be a repeat performance.
Instead of continuing to point fingers and assess blame, why don’t we try to find a positive approach to getting the issue solved? Until BOTH SIDES can put their egos and attacks aside, there will be no end to this mess. None.
Re: the IA — Yes they have a strike fund. Yes, so does the DGA, the Teamsters, and SAG. Yes, they take care of their own. But, strike funds are only available when the members of the union or Guild are themselves on strike. But, I think it takes special provisions to access the funds when another union or Guild is out. I’m most certain that all of those other unions and Guilds are already exploring what they can offer their members.
(Sorry for the long rant, gang…)
Re: reality shows versus scripted —
Many are done non-IA and many non-DGA. Crew size is brutally low. I heard one cable reality project had a production crew of ten, including the non-union director. of course, they have an army of editors to log and cut the projects — assuming as we all suspect that the editors are functioning as psuedo directors and writers, shaping the final product into something linear.
Network reality series have more crew — up in the 20 person range or more (subject to logistics — think “Amazing Race.” Scripted one hours have about 125 crew, including drivers and off production, with spikes of up to 175 for double-ups, quick turnarounds for sweeps, and second units.
As a 24 years DGA member (UPM/AD), it’s always pointed out at negotiating time that we belong to the DIRECTOR’S Guild, not the UPM or AD Guild/. Hence, when/if the negotiating gets down to the nitty gritty, the UPM/AD/TD/AP’s get shafted to preserve creative rights and director residuals. As Working AD mentioned, even on a longstanding successful run, we may see enough money at year’s end to buy yourself and wife a Starbucks.
To Kay & Josh — Sorry to rant. My anger is coming through. Sorry to direct it at you, as that isn’t productive or positive. Just please respect (at least in a public forum like this) the people that stand shoulder to shoulder with you, even if we don’t agree 100% of the time.
LET’S GET BACK TO WORK. LET’S FIND A WAY TO PUSH BOTH SIDES TO GET BACK TO THE TABLE!
Shreve, I was pretty sure that the IA probably had a strike fund for when its own union strikes, but maybe it should be also available if other union strikes put its members out of work. It would take the pressure off of members and help them feel good about supporting sister unions. I know you and I see eye to eye on most topics on this post but I can’t remember if you are IA or not. If so, has your chapter been more vocal and supportive? I just know that my husband has only recieved one bit of information - an email that they were not to honor the picket lines and needed to report to work as scheduled. Other than that there hasn’t been any guidance whatsoever and that is really a shame to me.
Sorry, you answered my question already - I see you are DGA…
Josh 154,
One is spoken and one is written?
Bah! I’m talkin’ here. Don’t know about you…
These are conversations that are physically written and existentially spoken… yes, I’m insane.
And to get technical, really technical, my Webster’s dic/thes lists slander as a suitable synonym to libel.
It may not have been the most incisive word choice or the most objective, I agree, but it got the job done and could have easily been ignored (especially by the person I was standing up for).
My spidey-sense says your issues run deeper with me.
Shreve,
I don’t know what else to say, dude. If you don’t think I support our supporters, or understand what this strike’s about or am just willy-nilly attacking Craig and Ted, you’re not reading very closely.
I’ve said it over and over and fucking OVER again. You accuse me of attack. Why won’t you take me at my bloody word? How much plainer can I say it?
You’ve chosen to ignore any of my posts that don’t directly feed into your anger towards me. How convenient. If you don’t like what I’m saying and want to bust me for speaking MY mind while you’re allowed to speak yours, don’t read my posts anymore. Seriously. I’m not going to argue with you. You are not getting what I’m saying, and you’re never going to, apparently.
Your “respectful disagreement” came across as something quite different.
And thanks for graciously asking me to leave the board. Nice.
Priya:
Took care of it. Sorry…it’s a bit of a slog going through the comments to delete stuff.
I’m DGA and Producers Guild, not IA. Brother is WGA and PGA. Realitives in IA, SAG, AFM.
I’ve was on the internal DGA negcom in the 90’s. Bro was WGA negcoms in the 80’s and on committees and was elected a couple times on the board. Father neg’d on behalf of the studios in the 70’s and advised in the 80’s.
Re: strike funds — it’s all up to the charters in the various unions. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, I’m sure that the unions and Guilds are exploring options available to their members. But, they would be les inclined to drain their resources now than if they were specifically on strike, or if they saw a rough period down the line (like now, where they may wait a few months if/when it gets especially tough to make ends meet.)
My sister in law just informed me that Perez Hilton has up today that NBC fired the whole production team from The Office this week due to the strike. Apparently it is the writer’s fault, too! Great reporting like usual, Perez.
http://perezhilton.com/?p=8560#respond
Kay —
I welcome your thoughts, whether you welcome mine or not. I don’t welcome your personal attacks, be they against me or others.
Just a note that all the posts between #9 and #258 that refer to a post number, now refer to that # + 1.
Craig 258,
If you’re taking requests for deletion, please delete Louise B.’s posts.
They’re unnecessarily harsh, offensive, came from another conversation on another site, endorse anonymity, allow Josh undeserved sympathy, and have nothing to do with the topic at hand.
I would be truly grateful.
Craig, make sure not to delete #127 as I didn’t find it “inappropriate.” Considering the source, it seems all too appropriate.
I have no idea how you guys can find the time reading and responding to all the comments here. This is crazy.
I humbly offer all commenters (Ted and Craig included!) the use of my Y membership so we can gather at the Hollywood Wilshire Y, where we’ll all put on boxing gloves and beat the fucking shit out of each other. Because that’s about what’s going on here, just with fewer bruises and less blood, and personally, I could really use the workout.
But really? It’s starting to feel like a scary echo chamber. And this comes from a guy who lost his job because of the strike just yesterday, so yeah, I know from fucking pissed about the whole thing. I just hope no one goes into cardiac arrest because they’re banging on the keyboard really hard.
Kay,
“I’ve said it over and over and fucking OVER again. You accuse me of attack. Why won’t you take me at my bloody word? How much plainer can I say it?”
Shreve’s a plant. Give it up.
SML,
“My spidey-sense says your issues run deeper with me.”
Uh, no, dude. It was an off-the-cuff, tongue-in-cheek comment. Unlax.
“They’re unnecessarily harsh, offensive, came from another conversation on another site, endorse anonymity, allow Josh undeserved sympathy, and have nothing to do with the topic at hand.”
Ay yi yi.
Calling me an anti-semite allows me undeserved sympathy?
Um…. right.
Aside from that, I’d prefer they stay up. They kinda give me a chuckle, and they paint a nice picture of the lengths some folks will go to here to stifle dissent.
I know how you all feel. Like floating weightless in a dark tunnel, waiting for some small ray of light that you hope isn’t the next freight train.
You have bills and mortgages to pay, kids to feed, and a million other fireballs coming at you from all directions. The darkness, the uncertainty of what tomorrow will bring, that’s the worst of it.
We’ve been through this before. After Pearl Harbor, we suffered defeat at every turn in Europe and the Pacific. There was no good news to be found anywhere. The darkness seemed infinite.
It would be six long months before Lt. Col. Jimmy Doolittle led a squadron of B-25s to bomb the living crap out of Tokyo and give them a taste of their own medicine. Long tough fights and great sacrifice lay ahead, but history has vindicated that struggle and the brave warriors who fought it.
Why do I bring up the Doolittle Raid on this, the occasion of the first WGA strike in 20 years, you ask? Well, Dear Writers, I’ll tell you. Because of the things Jimmy Doolittle and millions more like him so bravely fought for through that dark time: Truth, Justice and the Residual Way. What could be more American?
Now, we writers may be the worst fraternity house on the Hollywood campus. We may even be on double secret probation now. But when you’re up against Dean Moonves, Cpl. Douglas Niedermayer Counter and the other dark forces arrayed against us, we do what we must.
And if what the writers ask is just, isn’t this strike an indictment of the whole corporate Hollywood system? And if all of corporate Hollywood is guilty, isn’t that an indictment against American society as a whole?
Well, you AMPTP suits and shills can do and say what you want, but I’m not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America!
(With all due credit to John Belushi)
Sincerely and Best Wishes, Tyro The Magnificent.
Last one was me. Anonymousness is apparently contagious…
Former
“I have no idea how you guys can find the time reading and responding to all the comments here.”
Easy. We’re on strike, and it’s our day off.
Craig,
couple of questions in regards to the strike and WGA strategy.
Why would the studios offer anything close to what the WGA demands till then given it will set a bad precedent: i.e. if u want more then what we offer than just strike and eventually we’ll cave and give it to you. The studios and their bean counters obv. knew how much a strike would cost them yet they still didn’t significantly soften their terms during negotiations.
Do you think the WGA will get a better deal than what they might have gotten if they had pushed back the deadline and kept negotiating?
How many weeks after a strike before studios can start terminating deals?
4.If the DGA agrees on a new deal in the next 2-3 months doesn’t that basically give a ceiling to what the WGA might get given the writers will never get a better deal than the directors?
Good luck
“We are in the early days.” - Larry Gelbart when asked how long he thought the strike will last.
“I was here when we struck against the Pharaoh” - Norman Lear at yesterday’s rally.
Josh,
“…allow Josh undeserved sympathy…”
That was me winking at you….
You’s and me’s gots to work on our cheek tongues…
And as for Louise B.’s post, they’re just stupid and hypocritically hateful and lack context and have no place in these forums of peace, love, and happiness…
Natalie, Some individual IATSE locals have strike funds- which can be used when they’re on strike. IATSE is not on strike currently so, we can’t use them. IA members can collect unemployment, however.
Tom Short will not offically becoming out with any words of support, I don’t believe, due to the very public feud that the WGA and the IA have had over the last couple of years focused on the WGA wanting to organize editors and animation, which for better or worse are traditional IATSE juristiction. The IATSE is also a very firm believer in early negotiations (pioneered by the WGA, IIRC) in order to maintain the continuation of work/employment - their philosophy being small modest gains are worth more than striking for more aggressive gains.
There have been back channel attempts for dialogue between the WGA and the IA, which have been rebuffed by Mr. Young.
Bare in mind, the DGA and the IATSE are reasonably well aligned.
As far as the WGA being support of other locals and Labor in general, well, the history is there. If the WGA wanted to join the AFL CIO, or even the Calif. Federation of Labor, they might have some more clout amongst the local unions
So, one of Josh’s best friends is a producer?
Hmmmm…
(This is a joke. I’m just trying to get into this all “whiny judgemental spineless asshole” thing that seems to be a big hit around here)
(By the way, didn’t Louise B actually kinda Godwin this thread like, way back? Or does it not count unless you actually mention Hitler by name?)
(Ooops.)
Below the line. Thanks for the info. I actually just opened my mail and found a letter from our local union. I’m glad to see something regarding the strike finally. It does state that the WGA has been very poor at communicating with IATSE and that they are only privy to the same information that you or I get from the media and word of mouth. However, the director claims he will join any IATSE member on the picket line (granted that the member is not walking off a job).
“Okay. So, let me see if I have this part right. A rich writer who’s gonna weather this strike just fine is acting out of principle, but a writer with an empty bank account, who doesn’t know how he’s making rent next month is putting himself out of work for the foreseeable future because of bottomline circumstance?”
Josh,
Do you work for the minimum? Are you a writer with an empty bank account? What exactly do YOU have at stake in this strike?
How many WGA writers work for the minimum?
Will YOU (Josh Olson) EVER work for the minimums that are the basis of this strike?
I’m all for people making money from their efforts, and as I said previously I think this is a valid strike, but for God’s sake, how many other unions in the world have members with seven figure quotes and six figure residuals?
The bit about making the rent is clearly a talking point to try and garner sympathy from blue collar types, but you know what? You lose sympathy when you give the perception of being disenguous.
The WGA has about 12,000 members. Of that number, 9,000 are probably white, male and from a solidly middle class background or better.
You’re not going to be homeless if you can’t earn a living from writing, but you might be forced to get a more mundane job. (The horror!)
Trying to generate sympathy with the rhetoric you’re using doesn’t really fly in a world where 99.99% of the people are materially worse off than you.
I have to say, you guys (and gals) are professional writers, but you’re doing a really poor job of articulating your side of the story.
P.S. And in case I’m accused of being an corporate shill, I’m an elementary school teacher. I have NO vested stake in this game. I’m posting this because I see you (Josh Olson) taking Craig Mazin to task over what is essentially semantics. Neither one of you is doing poorly by the system you’re lambasting.
It’s time for yet another turn of the pages to reveal lessons from labor strife past!
Today, I would want to examine the bankruptcy and liquidation of Eastern Airlines. I know a bit about this from personal experience: I was one of the last flights the airline came involved with in 1990, during a week-long trip to Walt Disney World (not been back there since, though.) Eastern Airlanes officially liquidated its assets for good on January 18, 1991; one day after the beginnings of the Gulf War (Desert Storm.) What started this mess is a tacit reminder of mismanagement, bad timing, and a forever changing business structure.
The troubles that led to Eastern’s demise began in 1985, in which noted corporate buyout magnet Frank Lorenzo was awarded majority ownership during a lengthy takeover bid from the hands of Frank Bowman. Things went rotten near immediately afterwards: it started with internal documents indicating continous financial migmangement going back to the period when Eddie Rickenbacker was outbid in keeping the ownership during the early 70s.
In response, numerous internal investigations came about, detailing a myriad of financial waste, fraudulent booking, creative accounting beyond dispute, among other measures. Considering the time and place of these occurences, this came as a massive shock to numerous shareholders and travellers alike. In fact, this business was simultaneously in the thralls of liquidated bankruptcy alongside Pan American Airways.
Pan Am’s decline was noticeable and slow; Eastern Airline’s decline from one of the “big 4” in air transport to a shell of its former self was rapid. The breaking of its stability occured in 1989, precipitated by a labor dispute involving mechanics, pilots, flight attendants, and engineers silmutaneously. Frank Lorenzo, a master corporatist leader, was reluctant to get involved in union negotiations for one form of workers, let alone 4 at once.
The labor unions involved wanted greater job security and guaranteed payments, as well as the increases in pay they were deserved to have. Management, led by Lorenzo, frankly wanted nothing to do with labor at that time; considering their screw-ups in their finances, no suprise there. Therefore, in early March 1989, all 4 labor unions involved in disputes with Eastern Airlines went on strike.
Now, in previous times, those that worked in Eastern’s sphere did eventually get their agreements and payments. What came forward by Lorenzo in the weeks ahead was so shocking, and so irrational on the face of things, that the airline essentially signed its own death warrant. Management led by Frank Lorenzo first fired all non-essential workers from Eastern (part-timers, agents, and the like.) Within a short time afterwards, Eastern Airlines effectively fired all involved with the four unions out on strike. That’s right; all were fired, in a situation adamanatly worse than the POCAT strike of 1981. In mangement’s eyes and especially Lorenzo’s eyes, this action would salvage their economic meltdown. Well, as I said, it did not slow it down; it did increase it tremendously.
The upshot was that despite full operations, money was not being made by anyone (except management.) Few travellers chose to fly on the airline. Service declined quite a bit. Tens of thousands of jobs were lost needlessly. Basically, if you were to fly on Eastern Airlines during that time, you did so by necessity, not by chance. I know of this, because that was the only airline offering flights to Walt Disney World at La Guardia. In notice of the decline, the food and sewage sucked to no end.
Eastern airlines managed to claim a chance for forgiveness with an ad that planned for “improvement a liitle bit each day.” It was far too late for that. The 1990 second half recession and the lead up to the Gulf War (a war based on false pretenses on staged provocations) ended any chance of coming out of Chapter 11 bankruptcy which was filed late in 1989. Thus, at the onset of the Gulf War, Eastern Airlines liquidated its assets and ceased permanent operations. The management and Frank Lorenzo in particular got away from the mess they created scot-free.
Does this sound familiar to any of you? I seem to think that the desperation on the sides of the television industry are in comparative lock-step to Eastern Airlines’ demise. In the recent years of greater oppourtunities in multi-media, film, DVD, Internet, and other forms, television seems rather antiquated. In this sense, the moguls (not the economically sane ones, and not the lawyers representing them) need certain economic quick-fixes before the documents of book skewing and creative accountating become publicized. It always is a problem when certain people can’t get enough of their luxury, on either end of the spectrum.
And now, the firings are commencing. First is the non-essential staff. Then will come the writers-producers and all else. “The Office” is well known in this measure, but others are being melded about, including what I wrote previously. Afterwards, they will tend to quicker financial gains to woo the public; but really, how many times are you going to watch foolishness live and in person before you feel guilty of seeing this? If it comes to liquidating the TV divisions, the moguls may very well take it, leaving the evidence behind for none to see.
So, in more ways than one, you could say that yes, certain heads of programming and business (Fox especially, though I think NBC Universal is a close second) want this strike to pull the rug out from under the writers and all involved. To emphasize again, the attorneys have no say in their bosses decision (but some will feel reluctant to work with certain people again. Would anyone want to meet with representatives of a grouping whose more expressive wings state that the public face hates babies, children, dogs, peace, what have you?)
The moguls who are not financially sound want this exit strategy; they should not get it. What this means for the writers involved in this dispute is to disrupt the moguls’ plans by returning to their businesses, as immediate as possible. In that way, the moguls will have to accept labor agreements and continue business, and will have to work under legal financial tenants. The jobs and structures will continue, and the season of TV can be salvaged (maybe not Fox and NBC Universal, but others.)
The alternative is Eastern Airlines 2: This Time It’s Not Eastern Airlines 1; Writers Unit. And trust me when I say that the public will put the blame squarely on the strikers (why I am not sure), and will not forget. Yes, their inability at large to educate themselves regarding labor will benefit the business illiterates immensely. Thus, in all fairness, going back to the work you do best puts a damper on the moguls’ bid, not striking as was previously thought. Protect all sides on economic meltdown by going back and doing your jobs, ending the dreams of the uneducated and beginning the dreams of the enlightened.
Seeking comments and insight, however disputing it may be,
Lax24
You’re fantastically ignorant about this stuff, Matt, and after Cal pummels USC, I’ll do my best to teach you how. But I, for one, am in the Guild, make OK money, and last year it was only residuals that enabled me to keep my house. There is a significant percentage of the Guild just like me, if not even worse off.
Matt:
Josh likely worked for MANY years well below the minimum — for FREE, in many cases — before anyone would even pay him the minimum. A minimum that wouldn’t exist if not for the historical efforts of the WGA membership. And then he had a tremendous amount of work ahead of him — and the talent to get there — to earn the figure he currently earns.
And it’s extraordinarily pathetic of you to criticise him because of what he accomplished. And your snide “oh, the horror” quip — a punk comment that any one of your 4th grade students could have launched. Way to go.
The “members with seven figure quotes and six figure residuals” are a very scant portion of the membership.
“Of that number, 9,000 are probably white, male and from a solidly middle class background or better.” Jesus. Talk about disenguous.
By the way, out of curiosity — any Union represent you, perchance? Keep you from being able to be fired if your performance is lousy?
[quote=”Ted”]Nope. Thinking does not result in intellectual property. Writing does. If you’re not creating intellectual property, then whatever you’re doing, it’s not writing, as that word is meant in the context of the MBA and the Writers Guild and as its commonly used.[/quote]
Sounds good. Any writers believe that? How many times has someone asked you what you’re doing and you said “writing” even though there was no pen in your hand and no keyboard in reach?
Is the letter of the law more important than the spirit of the strike?
The illiterate storyteller entertaining his brothers around a prehistoric fire is our father, not the scrivener.
Ink, graphite, and pixels are not the stuff of story.
A writer can break a strike without a pen, pencil, or keyboard.
Has anyone seen the latest from the AMPTP? Here it is from their website:
SETTING THE RECORD STRAIGHT…
As the WGA knows and its own records will attest, writers are paid residuals on permanent digital downloads.
As the WGA knows and its own records will attest, writers are paid residuals on pay-per-view digital downloads.
This additional compensation was part of the more than $260,000,000 in record-breaking residuals paid to WGAW members in 2006.
When the WGA went on strike, an offer to pay writers for Internet streaming was on the table.
I am a reality TV producer in Philadelphia - I’m fully behind the WGA and would love to know what I can be doing to support you.
Stephen:
You obviously didn’t read my comments very carefully. I have no problem with Josh earning whatever he earns. More power to him. But, that’s not the point I was making.
And, to talk to you like I do my students, the point is when people are less than honest about their true circumstances they tend to put themselves in a bad position when it comes to third party perspectives.
If Josh Olson is making a comfortable living, it does not behoove him to make allusions to people struggling paycheck to paycheck. It just doesn’t garner much sympathy from those of us who actually are doing so. It’s a standard rhetorical trick.
P.S. Let me guess, YOU are white, male and middle class? And, you’re going to say, “So what?”
Additional compensation?
$260-million?
And what was their take for 2006?
You know, so we can compare apples to apples.
Steven Susco,
the problem with you is that you talk a good game, but from all accounts, don’t deliver…at least when that game is Halo.
But we’ll just keep that between us.
As far as #284, if a man struggles all his life and barely makes ends meet then suddenly wins the lotto, does that invalidate all his opinions about struggles based on all his personal experiences before he hit it big?
Perhaps some of the writers who are struggling would post more but can’t afford DSL.
Matt —
So wait, because Josh Olson is a successful screenwriter, he isn’t allowed to stand up for those who aren’t?
And I haven’t seen the demographic numbers, but most of the writers picketing near me the other day were women. And some of them weren’t even white.
(Hell, I’m a white male from a middle-class background, and I’m not even in the WGA. I’d love to be, though — even on strike).
As for being forced to take a mundane job, is that really what it has come down to? The idea that AMPTP should stop writers from being able to make a living at what they want to do, and forcing them to do something they don’t?
Like teaching? (Which don’t get me wrong, is a great profession, but not if someone doesn’t want to be doing it).
Matt:
Nonsense.
Just because Josh has a “comfortable” living now, doesn’t mean he didn’t at some point in the past. Using an ad hominem approach to disqualify his comments of validity is also a standard rhetorical trick. You should teach that to your students as well.
P.S. — Again, an ad hominem attack. My ethniticy, gender and socio-economic categories has nothing to do with my comment. Only to a guy like you. Which is why you’re probably not teaching middle or high school.
Malcolm:
I’m coming for you.
Matt,
Josh wasn’t claiming poverty. He was claiming class-ism. He was saying, and I believe it was directed at Craig, that it’s easy for Craig to take a moral stand when his bank account is solid.
I’m sure he’ll say the same about himself.
Malcolm,
You’re a dick. And if you think attacking someone’s livelihood is noble, well, you’re stupid too.
About this $260-mil…
Can someone do the math?
After deducting the “additional compensation” of writers who get the 6-figure residuals, what does that average for the rest of working writers?
No - wait. Wouldn’t this $260-mil also include writers whose only income for 2006 came from residuals?
The more I look at that number (considering all the films, TV shows and DVDs generating profit in any given year), the lower that $260-mil seems.
Josh paid his dues for a long time, not just the current ones to the WGA, and all that mileage has made him the writer he is today.
If Matt were in the mood to be magnanimous, he’d praise Josh for not forgetting where he’s come from. He ain’t “out of touch” like most of Hollywood who wash their hands with Evian and envy the waistlines of anorexics.
Too bad McQueen and Peckinpah are gone, as Josh would be working with them. That’s the highest compliment I can think of while sober.
Scott et all,
The point isn’t what people do, or what they accomplsh. What I am objecting to is the attempt to gain some kind of “moral authority” by implying a connection to a circumstance that isn’t theirs.
If you’re making good money, then be forthright and admit it, and THEN articulate why the situation is unfair (etc.)
When you are fighting for the hearts and minds of people who otherwise don’t really care about the outcome of your situation, it behooves you to be honest.
Feel free to keep coming after me, but if you’re going to be honest, you guys are doing a really lousy job of garnering sympathy from the general public.
And parse it all you want, but at the moment, the writers of the WGA ARE losing the public relations battle.
By the way, most teachers are white middle class men/women.
America is mostly white and middle class.
Most writers are not rich. I don’t get why people don’t count writers who work sporradically. There are teirs in professional screenwriting. People like Josh and Craig are on the top teir.
Matt, most school principles make more money than most screenwriters.
…I’M ON STRIKE.
I speak to my producer every few days because he’s one of my best friends, and that’s what one does with friends….
Josh - but if you really wanted to drive the point of the strike home, shouldn’t you be depriving him of your friendship? I know your friendship isn’t covered by the MBA but it’s the principle of the thing that’s the slippery slope.
My choice is to avoiding using words at all (except on blogs and even then only essentially) to show the world what life without me would really be like. I figure if I step up big in this way, it should be a very short strike indeed.
SML,
I was talking shit about Susco’s skills at “Halo” the video game. I wasn’t attacking him.
That’s not my thing.
Matt:
Maybe everyone’s missing your point because it’s inane. Writers of Josh’s level were only able to get to that position because they were able to make a living as most of the WGA membership does — solidly middle-class.
We’re all writers here, talking about what we do and what we’re struggling through. It’s not an obligation for us to start the discussion by saying: “Hi, my name is so-and-so, and here’s how much money I make every year, FYI.”
Get a grip.
And by the way: the median salary for a typical elementary school teacher in the US is $47,897. Thanks to the union, they can expect that to go up every year — and unless they quit or act with impropriety, be largely immune from termination.
The WGA’s minimum basic agreement establishes a minimum of $35,782 for an original screenplay. Which could easily stretch out well over a single year — sometimes two — of working time.
Matt, you write:
“… but at the moment, the writers of the WGA ARE losing the public relations battle.”
May I ask how you arrived at this conclusion?
I’m not sure how you think the writers are losing the public relations battle.
Most people saying anything about the strike seem to be on the writers side.
AMPTP is really a faceless organization with no real message at all that the general public is aware of.
SusanC,
It’s AMPTP propagandizing. They want us to focus on hard numbers because the hard numbers are astronomical compared to the real world.
So when Joe Average sees 260 mil he’ll go, “Them greedy, writing cocksuckers.”
Notice also their word choice, how they’re separating pay-per-view and permanent digital downloads from streaming online content. This is a semantic debate. Internet is a new frontier that has not yet been defined. And this definition is probably the most important battle the WGA has to fight and win.
If the WGA can say New Media encompasses streaming, all form of downloads, and any content delivered via the internet they can use that definition to enhance our cause in future negotiations (not just this one).
But you can’t have a semantic debate in the press. So the AMPTP propagates its own definition and covers up the propagation with an unfathomable number.
The AMPTP are brilliant propagandists.
“May I ask how you arrived at this conclusion?”
I’m glad someone asked something constructive, instead of simply attacking me on a personal level.
What is it you writers want to accomplish?
How are you going to go about getting it?
Do you WGA writers really think the perception of the “Average Joe” is on your side? I’m getting attacked for saying this fight comes off as being between the privileged and the privileged.
Josh and Craig seem to have a personality conflict. However, both of them have obviously done “all right” within the current system. Is it wrong to ask what either REALLY has at stake in this fight?
I didn’t mean to get sucked into this argument. Maybe I didn’t phrase everything I meant to say exactly in the intended manner, but I’m not the professional writer in this discussion.
However, I’m not denigrating anyone. I’m not insulting anyone’s intelligence, or attacking anyone on a personal level. Way to go, guys, cheap insults really advance your position.
All of you who have just launched cheap insults at me, I hope it makes you feel better, because it does nothing to advance your cause.
“All of you who have just launched cheap insults at me…”
You’re getting the bargain basement stuff. We’re on strike, so the premium insults stay in reserve.
Malcolm,
My apologies. So much shit is slinged, I can’t always tell when it tastes sweet.
I do think writers and the WGA are not doing a great job communications-wise. Message discipline is probably impossible in this situation, what with, uh, all the blogs and so forth. But if message discipline WERE possible, the Guild, and us, should stop even engaging in any of these silly and irrelevant arguments about whether writers make an average of 200k/year, or whether they’re middle class. It doesn’t matter. What does matter is:
Writers Deserve A Fair Contract.
The current AMPTP offer is patently unfair, and all workers, no mater their class position, can, and should, fight for fairness. Whether they’re making minimum wage or 30K a year or 200K.
The rallying cry of this strike shouldn’t be ‘Writers Deserve Respect’ or, good lord, ‘Corporations Are Evil.’ It should be: ‘Fair Contract.’ I wish that’s what they printed on the picket signs, and I think that’s what we should be chanting
It’s a much more powerful message than all the ancedotes about Marc Cherry slumming by on residuals, or Kay Reindl only making $7K this year (nothing personal, Kay), or ranting about corporate greed. Because all those other issues lead to the sort of public response you can see right here in this thread.
And, to use development lingo, it’s relatable, to everyone. And it’s a way to frame this strike calmly, reasonably, and accurately: We Want A Fair Contract.
Seriously, any strike captains reading this, think about chanting ‘Fair Contract’ next week.
Oops, #306 is me.
Matt,
Skipped your longer post, because it’s so completely mis-directed. Let me just say this:
“If Josh Olson is making a comfortable living, it does not behoove him to make allusions to people struggling paycheck to paycheck.”
I don’t make a comfortable living. I make a fantastic living. Better than I ever dreamed I’d achieve. I don’t know what class you teach, but it’s clearly not reading comprehension. I have not plead poverty here, nor did I argue that we’re a working class guild. If you want to actually respond to my comments, I’d be happy to engage you. But when you’re going to characterize them so inaccurately, there’s really no point.
“The point isn’t what people do, or what they accomplsh. What I am objecting to is the attempt to gain some kind of “moral authority” by implying a connection to a circumstance that isn’t theirs.”
Which I never did. You WANT me to. You WANT the higher earners to wrap themselves in the flag of poverty so you can get all high and mighty about your own weekly paycheck, but I’m not gonna do that. Sorry. I make gobs of money for what I do. Ridiculous sums. I’ve earned them. And I’ve earned the right to a decent piece of the action generated by my work, even if that piece of the action strikes you as obscene.
“Is it wrong to ask what either REALLY has at stake in this fight?”
Nope. I have the exact same thing at stake in this fight as every other working writer. Thanks for asking.
And if I’m not mistaken, the offer from the AMPTP was Zero up until the 11 1/2 hour (Sunday night) when they said, fine, take your shitty DVD rate of .3%. So technically, that’s an offer. Much like the previous metaphor of a shit sandwich is an offer of food. “But it’s got bread! It’s CALLED a sandwich, you ungrateful writers!”
Matt:
You didn’t really answer my question.
How did you come to the conclusion WGA s losing the PR war?
SML:
Oh, I know they play a shell game with numbers.
But even with their creative accounting, the $260-mil residual total looks puny.
Especially when the top 10% of writers get the biggest chunk of that number.
Malcolm,
“Matt, most school principles make more money than most screenwriters.”
Doubtful. They probably make more money than most WGA members, but I’d be astounded to find that working screenwriters don’t get paid better than high school principles. And, frankly, that’s the line of attack that Matt is attributing to me (wrongly), and it’s boneheaded. With all due respect.
Vince,
“Is the letter of the law more important than the spirit of the strike?”
Some folks don’t acknowledge the existence of the latter. That some of them are writers is, um… chilling.
Scott,
“So wait, because Josh Olson is a successful screenwriter, he isn’t allowed to stand up for those who aren’t?”
That would make me a limousine liberal. See, when you have money, you’re supposed to turn into a cold blooded bastard who only cares about himself.
SusanC
““… but at the moment, the writers of the WGA ARE losing the public relations battle.” May I ask how you arrived at this conclusion?”
AMPTP talking points memo.
Alan,
“Josh paid his dues for a long time, not just the current ones to the WGA, and all that mileage has made him the writer he is today.”
Um…. Thanks. And yeah. Been broke most of my life, to tell the truth. There’s still a moment when I wake up in the morning where my first thought is, “How am I making ends meet this week?” Then the world comes into focus and I laugh like a fucking hyena.
And I’m STILL in morally right to be striking more.
As you know, so why am I lecturing? Sorry.
As for the rest, I can’t even begin to think about it. My keyboard’s blushing, man. If we meet on the line, first Krispy Kreme’s on me….
Under the MBA, writers don’t get paid for work process. We don’t get paid for having a pen in our hand or working at a keyboard; we don’t get paid for thinking. We don’t get paid for the process of writing.
We get paid for our work product: intellectual property of a specific kind, works of authorship subject to copyright, the unique expression of ideas in a fixed, tangible, literary form.
Obviously, for that work product to exist, there must be a process by which it is made to exist — and no matter any one’s individual process, the one thing that any work process that results in written work must include is: the physical labor of writing.
In a Writers Guild labor strike in support of MBA negotiations, members cannot enter into agreements to deliver work product to struck companies, cannot deliver work product to struck companies required by agreements, and must suspend the process, the physical labor, by which contracted-for work product is created: writing.
I would hope that all writers who are Guild members believe this, since its the fundamental basis of all temrs of the MBA … including the ones we’re trying to win in this negotiation.
Teacher,
“Do you work for the minimum? Are you a writer with an empty bank account? What exactly do YOU have at stake in this strike?”
Ah, this is dee-licious. What Josh has at stake is what every other writer has at stake, which is why we’re all out on the picket line. Just because he’s doing well doesn’t mean he shouldn’t give a shit.
“How many WGA writers work for the minimum?”
There’s no such thing as a WGA minimum salary. Unless you’re on staff on a TV show, you are essentially a freelancer. And if you are on staff on a TV show, what you get paid depends on your level and on what your agent can negotiate. Learn how the industry works.
“Will YOU (Josh Olson) EVER work for the minimums that are the basis of this strike?”
Seriously, dude. Learn a thing or two before you ask uninformed questions.
“I’m all for people making money from their efforts, and as I said previously I think this is a valid strike, but for God’s sake, how many other unions in the world have members with seven figure quotes and six figure residuals?”
For those of you who have ripped into me because I’m “attacking” people — this attitude is exactly what I’m talking about. This asshat thinks writers are rich, lazy fucks. See the problem? They don’t come in here asserting that below-the-line folks are rich, lazy fucks. But writers… because everybody can pick up a fucking pen, they think we’re privileged.
“The bit about making the rent is clearly a talking point to try and garner sympathy from blue collar types, but you know what? You lose sympathy when you give the perception of being disenguous.”
You’re a teacher. Perhaps spelling “disingenuous” correctly would be a good start. Josh may lose sympathy with you but hey, you don’t have any sympathy for writers to begin with so that’s not much of a loss. You’ve made a judgment based on nothing. Me, I’ve known Josh for a long time. He’s not trying to curry favor with anyone. He doesn’t operate that way. I know he has my back, and that he supports people in my position, because he shows it. He does it. He doesn’t pay it lip service, like other people do.
“The WGA has about 12,000 members. Of that number, 9,000 are probably white, male and from a solidly middle class background or better.”
Probably? Seriously, what the hell kind of a teacher ARE you?
“You’re not going to be homeless if you can’t earn a living from writing, but you might be forced to get a more mundane job. (The horror!)”
You’re so envious you can’t even see straight, aren’t you? If you want to be a writer, then be one. Nobody’s stopping you. That always gets me. I wasn’t invited into this club. I worked my ass off. I continue to work my ass off. Because unlike other professions, say, teaching, I have to prove myself every Goddam day. I don’t have the ease and comfort of knowing who I’m going to work for every day. I don’t get summers off. Hell, I don’t even get holidays off. I work all the time. If you want to do that, then do. Stop criticizing others for following a path that you want to follow.
“Trying to generate sympathy with the rhetoric you’re using doesn’t really fly in a world where 99.99% of the people are materially worse off than you.”
A specious argument, but I’d expect nothing less from you at this point. Clearly, you want to pile on Josh because it’s fun and fashionable, but you’re not even close to being in his league.
“I have to say, you guys (and gals) are professional writers, but you’re doing a really poor job of articulating your side of the story.”
No, hon, you’re doing a really poor job of grokking it.
“P.S. And in case I’m accused of being an corporate shill, I’m an elementary school teacher. I have NO vested stake in this game. I’m posting this because I see you (Josh Olson) taking Craig Mazin to task over what is essentially semantics. Neither one of you is doing poorly by the system you’re lambasting.”
Eh? What does that even mean?
Fortunately for your profession, I have family members who teach and they’re smart as fucking whips. But you… you really shouldn’t be educating children.
Alan,
“Too bad McQueen and Peckinpah are gone, as Josh would be working with them. That’s the highest compliment I can think of while sober.”
Heh.
Matt, I’m with you. Trying to take the high road and ask a simple question. What do you get? Nothing but shit upon.
Teaching is a nobel profession. Chances are you chose teaching not because of the money but because of the emotional rewards. That’s cool.
I like Susco/#299’s justification about principal’s salaries, though. Nice. What he forgets is that a principal is considered near the top of the ladder in an instructor’s career. Probably 10-15 years of experience to even get the shot. Scale for a screenplay is not the top of the ladder. It applies if your breaking in or if you don’t have the credits with quotes. 10-15 years of professional writing experience is going to net you out a lot more than $45,000. If it’s not, you either don’t have the talent or one hell of a crappy agent.
I’d like to find myself sympathetic to the writer’s cause, but the personal insults being lobbed about make it only pathetic. Some of these guys on the high horses need to look in a mirror when spitting fire. They probably weren’t working much before the strike either. Of course that was everyone else’s fault, too.
Just like a long strike will be.
Maybe too many chest thumpers and finger pointers are advising the WGA negotiators.
Josh,
Actually I DO teach reading comprehension. That’s how, for example, I know the difference between “principles” and “principals.”
Also, I don’t give a rat’s ass how much money you earn. If you had bothered to read my posts, this is what I’ve said more than once. More power to you.
The problem I have is when someone like you who makes “obscene” amounts of money from writing within the current system, it rings false when you invoke the imagery of writers struggling to make mortgages to advance your position with respect to the current strike.
Just be honest about your circumstances.
Susan,
The “Average Joe” sees people with a lot of money arguing with other people with a lot of money over a split of that money.
Maybe that’s not the truth, but do you really think you writers have done a good job of articulating your position to the general public?
“Teaching is a nobel profession.”
Jesus, you just showed the importance of the profession. How many grades did you skip so you could work the summer harvest?
Matt makes no sense. He’s an elementary teacher and it’s Saturday night, so why aren’t you out there setting off an Amber alert?
‘Nuff Said (#316) —
Love the name…
Firstly, I didn’t say principals. I said teachers. And that’s the median. Not the high end.
Secondly, I wasn’t “justifying” anything. I was providing some perspective to our visitor Matt.
And third: “10-15 years of professional writing experience is going to net you out a lot more than $45,000.” I’m assuming you mean PER YEAR. Even then, the statement is specious at best.
Mike S,
For the record, “fair contract” is in about every other chant where I’m picketing. The ludicrous discussions/arguments we’re having on this board never enter into the actual picketing. We know what to tell people we see every day, because we know what the issues are. And nobody accuses me of being some rich asshole. Nobody accuses me of being greedy. Every single person I’ve talked to, including those who didn’t understand the issues until I explained them, instantly says that we are not being treated fairly. So if you think the PR war’s being lost, it’s not being lost with the people I’ve talked to.
I don’t expect the press to be fair to us because they’re owned by the corporations which make up the AMPTP. Look how long it took them to realize what a heinous president Bush is. But we can win in other ways. I think judging our potential victory by this board is a lost cause. This is a fishbowl. The world isn’t.
Actually, the average Joe sees people on strike for better pay, isn’t happy that his favorite TV shows are going off the air soon, and hears lots of sound bites of people he respects telling him they are on the side of the writers.
The problem is that the opinion of the Average Joe isn’t going to sway AMPTP at all, unless the Average Joes figure out how to band together and boycott something (like movies or TV) until AMPTP gets their asses back to the bargaining table.
I said “principles” first.
I always do shit like that.
Fucking Californial public schools.
Kay,
In this situation, I don’t have to “grok” anything. (Stranger in a Strange Land by Robert Heinlein is a great book.)
It does not matter to me one way or the other how the strike gets resolved.
Bottomline is you want more of a cut of the revenue generated by you. Fair enough. Good luck in getting it.
However, I’m willing to bet my perception is A LOT closer to the general public’s than yours. If you refuse to accept that, well, okay. ::shrug::
Also, thank you for deciding that based on my comments here that I don’t deserve to be teaching. I think it says volumes that you (et all) have to resort to personal insults.
‘nuff said,
“I like Susco/#299’s justification about principal’s salaries, though. Nice. What he forgets is that a principal is considered near the top of the ladder in an instructor’s career. “
He said elementary school teacher, not principal. I come from a family of public school teachers, just so you know. And lest we forget, teaching public school includes the word PUBLIC. We’re working in a private industry. You can’t compare the two.
“Probably 10-15 years of experience to even get the shot. Scale for a screenplay is not the top of the ladder. It applies if your breaking in or if you don’t have the credits with quotes. 10-15 years of professional writing experience is going to net you out a lot more than $45,000. If it’s not, you either don’t have the talent or one hell of a crappy agent.”
Right. Those are the only two options. Idiotic. The film and TV world doesn’t work like YOUR world does, sweetie. You don’t get your raise and your promotion and your gold watch when you retire. I’ve had some pretty good years, and some really bad ones. That’s what most writers can expect.
Jesus Christ, you see how these idiots force us to keep talking about what we make??? Can somebody please LEARN something?
“I’d like to find myself sympathetic to the writer’s cause, but the personal insults being lobbed about make it only pathetic. “
So you want a writer to, what, blow you and then you’ll be sympathetic? Seriously, what do you want here? What kind of ass-kissing are you looking for so we can win your vote of public sympathy?
“Some of these guys on the high horses need to look in a mirror when spitting fire. They probably weren’t working much before the strike either. Of course that was everyone else’s fault, too.”
Where is this “fault” thing coming from? What are you talking about?
Shill.
Matt:
Get off your high horse. You’re the one who snarkily started playing “guess the race & gender”, and demanded to know how much we all got paid.
Matt,
“However, I’m willing to bet my perception is A LOT closer to the general public’s than yours. If you refuse to accept that, well, okay. ::shrug::”
All I have to go on is people I talk to on a daily basis. I don’t count people who come onto this board with what seems to be a mission to tell some rich writer off. I’m asking this in all seriousness, why are you here?
“Also, thank you for deciding that based on my comments here that I don’t deserve to be teaching. I think it says volumes that you (et all) have to resort to personal insults.”
You’re welcome. Maybe next time you should be more clear and concise in your remarks and then I’ll be impressed with you.
I love how people like you come in here and insult people like me and then turn around and say they weren’t insulting.
You were. Sorry if you don’t see that.
Scott,
“Actually, the average Joe sees people on strike for better pay, isn’t happy that his favorite TV shows are going off the air soon, and hears lots of sound bites of people he respects telling him they are on the side of the writers.”
That’s been my experience as well.
Kay: yeah, I know what you mean by the fishbowl effect, but as a former journalist (who, having worked for a corporate-owned newspaper knows that corporation ownership doesn’t really impinge on reporters or coverage in this type of situation— seriously) I do think a better communications strategy by the WGA would result in more balanced media coverage.
And by ‘better communication strategy’ I mostly mean a) a tighter focus on fairness (rather than about how residuals are cheap R&D for the studios or help people with their mortgages) and b) more press conferences to nail that focus home.
Better media strategy might not actually impact negotiations, but then again, it might. Certainly wouldn’t hurt.
Scott the Reader: It’s a nice idea, a boycott, but seriously, you’d need like a million people for it to have any impact, and there’s just no way of getting those numbers.
Stephen,
How much do you get paid?
Are you white and male?
Are you going to respond that it doesn’t matter?
Just so you know, I got to this website by accident, but the condescension is illuminating.
Seriously, you WGA writers are your own worst enemies. I’m basically on your side, but you’re doing a piss poor job of keeping me there.
Matt, you came here and attacked not just our lifestyles but our hair, our vocabulary, our syntax and our choice of premium coffees. We had to defend ourselves against the vicious onslaught.
Are there more important issues to the rest of the world? Of course… but this is Hollywood, baby, and our strife is in vogue right now. This is a fight about our futures.
You keep saying that you support our cause, so whatever P.R. is filtering out to Peoria must be working somewhat.
If America understood how hard it is to put out a crappy TV show week after week, they’d be in tears.
Anonymous (#328):
Do you have a point? If you’ve actually been reading, you’ll notice that it was Matt who came in here to lecture and chastise us — the condescension was from without, not within.
By the way, feel free to use your real name like the rest of us.
The above post was obviously mine.
And Kay?
I have never insulted you personally. Can you say the same?
There is a difference.
Matt:
Not “obviously”. Lots of people write insipid comments under “Anonymous”.
Though I probably should have picked up on the supercilious tone…
Alan,
“Matt, you came here and attacked not just our lifestyles but our hair, our vocabulary, our syntax and our choice of premium coffees. We had to defend ourselves against the vicious onslaught.”
Hyperbole.
Cite a single example where I specifically attacked you, or your hair or choice of coffee?
Do I really need to cut and paste the 20+ insults directed at me? Have I ever said ANY of you are not fit to be doing what you do to make a living?
You guys are really your own worst enemies.
Hyperbole, sarcasm — meh, six of one, half a dozen of the other.
Okay, we get it — we’re our own worst enemies.
Anything else to add? Or are you done?
Thanks for the notes.
When we light into teachers and non-industry professionals with snark and sarcasm, what point are we making other than reinforcing stereotypes about what cocky know-it-alls Hollywood types are? There’s a way to tell someone how hard you work as a screenwriter or educate them about the issues in this strike without disrespecting what they do with comments that they ‘shouldn’t be educating children’ or ‘I don’t know what class you teach, but it’s clearly not reading comprehension.’ The sarcastic personal insults aren’t only weak writing, they make Matt’s points for him.
There are strong emotions associated with issues that affect anyone’s livelihood. Dealing with that during a business negotiation is part of the communications challenge.
Sorry, the above was me. I should sign my work so the blame goes where it belongs.
Matt, here’s what I thought you said:
“Alan, I don’t like your lifestyle or your hair, your vocabulary, your syntax or your choice of premium coffee. I also find your cologne repellent.”
See? I’m a writer so I can take liberties.
Personally, I think you’re sticking around because this is Saturday night and you’re getting lots of personal attention. It’s not every day that you flame an Oscar nominee and get a personal response.
Go ahead and email Scorsese, see if you hear back. I dare yah.
Everyone has a right to their opinion, but your arguments seem to be indulging your inner Pirandello. Fold your hand, man.
J. Turman,
I’m ON YOUR SIDE. Being the geek that I am, I’ve read the proposals of both the AMPTP and WGA.
What you’re asking for is reasonable. (At least as far as I, an elementary school teacher, can understood. But, I’m married to a lawyer so she explains the difficult terms to me.)
What I am suggesting is that YOU (generic) are not pursuing the optimal strategy for achieving what you want to achieve.
Alan, Kay, Josh and anyone else can continue to attack me on a personal level, but my God, if this is how you treat people sympathetic to you…
Ok, I probably shouldn’t reply to an off-topic post, but, what the Hell, it beats trading ad hominems.
Lax24, you’re posting incomplete and questionable information on Eastern Airlines and what I really feel is misinformation masquerading as wishful thinking re: the first Iraq War.
A step-family member of mine had worked for Delta for many years around the time it went under. He’s of the opinion that the new Union rules for Eastern were a large part of its problems:
Before the new rules, Delta and Eastern employees could and would help each other if one was short-handed. After, it wasn’t allowed: an airplane would literally sit stuck on the runway if someone whose current job title was “Driver” was out sick —even if someone whose current job title was “Luggage Handler” was capable of driving it and was willing to do it.
So there were other issues involved in Eastern Airlines’s demise.
Re: the First Iraq War: Kuwait was a sovereign nation before Iraq invaded and conquered it. We then got strong diplomatic, financial, and even military support from about a dozen Middle Eastern countries — and not half-assed support — we got well over 200,000 foreign troops, most of them Muslim. (We also threw in half a million of our own troops: no half-assed stuff.)
Our liberation of Kuwait was considered welcome and necessary by most of region’s Muslim Governments, and let’s not forget the Kuwaitis, who were overjoyed to be liberated.
And why not?
Surely you don’t think we should have allowed Saddam to even threaten to take over half of the world’s oil supply, do you?
Saddam had just given up on a long war attempting to take over Iran - why should we have assumed, having watched him just conquer Kuwait, that he’d finally stop invading his neighbors?
We gave him a chance to leave: he didn’t. For failing to leave, he suffered the consequences, as did many other people, sadly.
And no, our history was not as pure as the driven snow before the War, and leaving bases in Saudi Arabia sowed many seeds for this unnecessary war (which is a Fool’s crusade.)
And lest you think I’m a reflexively anti-union, pro-corporation warmonger, fyi: when I was invited in January of 1992 to attend a formal state dinner with President Bush Sr, I declined it.
(In case you think I’m making that up: feel free to check with the Secret Service: just know they take a dim view of annoyances.)
It wasn’t a decision I made lightly, either: I had just become incredibly disenchanted with his domestic policies and didn’t want to be there as a pro-Presidential prop.
With the Cold War over, I wanted a President who’d make an effort not just for the Upper Class (and say what you will about Bush Sr: he had class, give him that) but also the Working and Middle Class Americans - and, luckily we got Clinton.
Speaking of Clinton, Bill’s not a bad choice for Strike Mediator: despite his flaws, the guy sure is one Helluva negotiator.
Ye Gods, that reads long.
Don’t worry guys: there won’t be a repeat.
Matt,
I think you’re assumptions are way off. A LOT of writers come from blue collar backgrounds. A lot have little to no college. Most are white, but so is most of the country. (true, there are too few minorities in this business but let’s not go down that road)
Again, Matt, most writers spend a lot of time unemployed. But they’re still writing. They’re writing specs that will get them jobs (or a magical sale). And once they get jobs, they are very likely to end up unemployed again. When they’re unemployed, they’ll have to write specs again.
It goes on like that until a writer gets a produced movie. And if the movie bombs, he/she can end up unemployed again.
Now this isn’t the only scenerio, but it’s a common one. It’s inaccurate to say that unemployed writers are somehow not real “working” writers. You gotta understand that we’re working hard as fuck and not being paid. If you sell a spec script for 200 grand, after taxes and commisions, you’re gonna bring home 100. That 100K can easily be the only money you make for the next 3 years.
All while working.
Guys who write a hit movie early in their careers are anomolies. Same with guys who win oscars. And a majority of rich writers have hits or statues under their belts.
Most writers are broke until we’re rich.
And most writers ain’t rich.
He sure did a bang-up job with the Oslo Accords and the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty.
But yeah, I agree — Clinton’s probably one of a handful of high-profile folks who could have a chance at brokering some kind of deal…
Alan,
I’m 37. When I was 18, and finishing up high school in South America, I acted in a scene with an Oscar nominee. He was a drunk. That was the end of my “acting” career.
You consistently miss my point, I don’t give a fuck what people do to earn their livings. Or how much they make.
Your condescending language only reinforces the real points I’m making.
Come on, man, you want my support (and from everyone like me), but you insult me.
J. Turman, I was in a restaurant last night where a group of actors were at a table near a producer and his date.
When a shot of the writer’s rally appeared on a TV, ths guy went into a diatribe about what the writers were doing to this town and suddenly the actors were shouting at him… then they started attacking one of their own who will be crossing the picket line to be part of an ADR group. Some of them were inebriated and called the fella a “scab.” The fellow’s reply was: “What can I do? I don’t have a choice!”
When the channel got changed to “Godfather III,” things calmed down as they started attacking that instead.
This is a hornet’s nest with both sides playing hardball. The public’s perception of entertainment isn’t based on budgets or salaries, but simply whether they like it or not.
I don’t think I could ever expect true sympathy for the public. Based on the comments of various BTL people who are suffering from a work stoppage, maybe we need to play to the room and keep them in our corner.
Matt:
I’d suggest you visit this link — there are great articles and videos which provide some of the details you might be looking for.
http://unitedhollywood.blogspot.com/
“You consistently miss my point, I don’t give a fuck what people do to earn their livings. Or how much they make.”
Yeah, but I got you to use profanity… so now you’re stopping to my level. I’ve made you a vulgarian. Soon, you’ll be one of us.
While it’s always nice to have the public on your side, unless they boycott every movie and TV show as opposed to just honking car horns, that’s not going to translate into a quicker resolution.
To me, the priority should be to keep the rest of the creative industry, both above and below the line, from bailing on this cause.
I gotta’ go drink, pal. My Guild card gets me a free one at a local pub.
Am I alone in wondering if there it isn’t worth at least trying to wrest Authorial copyright rights back in the midst of all of this?
It’s not like things can get much worse…
Alan,
If I ever run into you in person I’ll buy you a drink.
Travis:
Wow. Now THAT’S ambitious. Screw this four-cent increase thing. :)
“If I ever run into you in person I’ll buy you a drink.”
And I’ll buy you some Chateau Haut-Brion since writers are all overpaid and make on average $200,000 a year according to the AMPTP.
Matt,
There are a lot of writers out there that totally depend on residuals to live. Those are the writers that you’ve never heard of whose movies will never see the multiplex. Movies with very small budgets that go straight to DVD or get sold overseas.
The problem with the statistics you (or the general public) read is that they’re just that.
Statistics.
Numbers.
Numbers that don’t represent actual human beings. Those numbers don’t represent the hundreds and/or thousands of writers who make very little money. Think of it this way, if there are 10 writers and 5 of them make $1,000,000 dollars a year and the other 5 make $20,000 a year, the average will make it look like they all make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. Not really that accurate.
Unfortunately, much like US politics, you don’t hear from these people. You hear from the people who make the most money and wield the most power. In essence, they make us all look like sarcastic, snarky, assholes.
Please don’t judge the masses by the few that you read here. As much as I love this blog, it definitely doesn’t represent what’s going on at the picket lines.
I think it’s very cool that you reached out to see what was going on. Might I suggest going to www.wga.org for a more eloquent view than I or anyone else can give.
“Chateau Haut-Brion”
Oddly enough, before I was a teacher (and making a solid six figure salary in the business world) this was one of the last bottles I bought in a San Fransisco restaurant.
Good stuff.
Kevin, you put it in more eloquent terms that I’ve heard in a long time.
Matt, you deal with kids. Writers have them and so do actors, directors and crew members. I hope a resolution can be reached soon so that the holidays won’t be ruined for a whole lot of families and I’m sure you share that sentiment.
Forgive me for channeling Jerry Lewis and playing the “kids” card, but I am a fan of his.
Amen to that…
As the father of a two year old boy and a three month old girl, I certainly agree with the sentiment.
And I’m not against what you guys want, and I’ve learned a lot about your situation just from reading to prepare for my responses in this thread.
But, I can’t help but wondering, why is it that WRITERS seem to be doing a really bad job at articulating their position?
Kay may want to parse me about this, but a simple google search supports my POV.
What is self-evident to you guys actually affected by the situation IS NOT what the rest of us perceives.
Obviously there is are a lot of strong emotions at stake, but responding by insults not even worthy of my elementary students does not advance your cause.
Quick, Craig!
Close the thread on a good note, and delete thi-
Matt,
Just now catching up, and I gotta say: You earned the crap storm, and now you feel persecuted. Perhaps people have turned on you personally for the following reasons:
You’re initial questions were not borne of a desire to learn, but were posted in attempt to prove some moral point. You sought to rob others of the moral high ground they implicitly claimed, which you objected to. You posed assumptions about writers that were factually untrue, and insulted others along the away. Then you insisted that you had a valid criticism of the strike, while also claiming you�re on our side.
Am I wrong, here? Did I miss anything?
You seem intelligent, but uninformed when it comes to writers’ demands. Yet you blame writers for this? That WGA PR has been lacking is perhaps a valid criticism. But anyone following this site, as you apparently do, should have run into any one of a million posts in which the demands were clearly articulated.
So what is your point? What is the valid criticism? I�m actually listening. Say it succinctly for me, so at least I�ll know what you were actually trying to say. Or, at least I�ll know if yours are among the posts I will simply skip from now on.
I am a mixed-race male, in case you need to know, and am among those who do not make a sufficient living from writing (yet). But I am damn glad successful writers share in the burden of this fight, which I believe will benefit all writers.
JP Wolff
I can understand the bitterness. Guild stands for Giving Unemployment In Large Doses!
Alan,
Thanks. Means a lot coming from you.
It’s sad to think this thing will probably go on well into January. Fuck the kids, I’m talking about missing 24.
Matt:
Please. We get it. We’re our own worst enemies. We haven’t articulated our case well enough for you.
Okay. Roger. Understood.
Do you have anything else you’d like to say? Or are you going to keep repeating yourself over and over?
JP,
In the simplest terms I know you writers need to do a better job of articulating why the rest of us should care about your grievances.
As I have said repeatedly I do believe writers have a legitimate grievance.
What “I think” is the valid criticism is the approach employed. Will the WGA writers get what they want out of this situation?
I just don’t know.
Do you?
And Alan and Stphen (and others) who choose to continue to attack me on a personal basis just don’t seem to get it.
Stephen,
I don’t care what you think.
It makes ZERO difference in my life. However, what I THINK (by extension of the fact that I represent a not-insignificant demographic) makes a VERY significant different in yours.
Go stuff yourself in your own bile.
Yeah, that’s what I thought.
I feel bad for your students.
Stephen,
You have an open invitation to teach my classes for a day.
Walk the walk.
E-mail me at mspira@yahoo.com
Matt:
Huh. Coulda sworn you said something about not being involved in this whole screenwriting thing at all — nothing at stake and all that…
This wouldn’t be you by any chance, would it? The Happy Existentialist? “Join The Screenwriting Revolution Today”?
http://www.thehappyexistentialist.blogspot.com/
I’m sure it isn’t. Because that’d just be WAY too funny.
From the website of one Matthew Spira, “A screenwriting blog about THE writing itself…”
[QUOTE]I’m a semi-professional screenwriter living in South Korea. I consider myself a “semi-pro” because while I do make some money on a regular basis from screenplay assignments, it’s not very much, and I have a day (technically evening) job teaching English to pay the bills.
Most screenwriting blogs, including my previous attempt - The Happy Existentialist, tend to be about everything but the actual writing itself, so the premise for this blog is very simple: on a regular basis I’m going to post a single page from one of my personal scripts. No context, no explanation.
I will, however, welcome any comments.
Currently, I have a set of nine screenplays- four with completed drafts, two partially written and three in outline form- and it is my goal by the end of 2008 to have all nine completed and in presentation shape.
Completed screenplays that I consider to be in presentation shape will be posted on Triggerstreet under my user name, “Matthew Spira.” [/QUOTE]
Hello? Matt? Still with us?
Stephen,
I’m not a WGA writer. I have no prospects of being one, and I don’t really care one way or the other.
Go ahead and look at that blog, and the one that followed: www.matthewspira.blogspot.com
I’m still not wrong.
Yup.
‘Night, Matt.
Last post was me. “Obviously”.
Josh Olsen, Thanks for the comment. “Chilling” is a good word.
Ted, I liked your response, but I think it runs afield of my context, like a lawyer trying to get his guilty client off on a perfectly good technicality.
Yes, I understand that studios buy scripts (tell that to Joe Eszterhas, master of the game, who sold an outline on the back of a napkin at the Polo Lounge for a few mil… if we all had his guts, we wouldn’t need to strike). Nevertheless… a physical tangible product.
But the act of producing that product isn’t always a shovel and pickaxe physical labor sort of thing. Some dictate it while they pace about the room. Does that make the writer’s asst. the author of the work? Are they “writing” when they type up what their boss is telling them? Certainly the act of speaking doesn’t produce the end product any more than the mental generation of the ideas? It’s the physical act of putting the story on paper that constitutes “writing,” right?
The physical labor of writing that you are talking about isn’t always done by the writer. This suggests to the logical mind that ink smears on paper are not the actual product any more than tubes of paint and canvas are the product of a fine artist or marble is the product of a sculptor.
It’s one thing to pretend to AMPTP that 120 pages in proper format is the product, but there are a few thousand men and women with signs in their hands that know better.
And, as talented as you are (and I’m not being a smart-ass; you are very talented and I want to thank you for the hours of fine entertainment you have provided… sincerely), when you wake up in the middle of the night, eyes wide, desperate for a pen as if it were a junkie’s needle against your paper/skin… trying to labor that fragile thing into coherrence… you know it too.
But I get your point, and I understand that there seems to be a fine gray line that your buddy, Craig is trying to walk… trying to find that place where the director is disconnected from the writer. But we all know that place doesn’t exist in a writer-director. That’s why they are better than regular directors generally and more successful in thier visions than regular writers generally. They don’t have that disconnect and the vision has more integrity. That’s the whole point.
A writer-director doesn’t have two jobs. He has one. Shhhhh…. don’t tell anyone.
And while we’re talking about AMPTP… I think we need to add a point to WGA’s demands.
AMPTP must choose a better acronym… something that actually flows off the tongue. I mean, seriously, what is Amp TP? What kind of souped up Charmin are we talking about here? What a dumbass acronym. Maybe they could hire a writer to help with that.
Thanks for the response, Ted. I absolutely respect what you’ve said so far in spite of my smart-assed response. This isn’t an easy issue. People with talents in many areas bring a lot of integrity to the process, but are rather like bi-racial children, catching crap from both sides.
To Craig, Your position can’t be easy and you are doing what you think you must and I will respect that even if I disagree with it. So please read that into my remarks.
And Stephen?
How does any of this advance your position?
If the strike goes for more than another week, some of you folks are gonna have stomach ulcers and an irritable bowel and, if you’re really lucky, some scar tissue on your heart.
Pace yourselves, for cryin’ out loud… maybe leaven all the spittin’ mad with a Hallmark card or something.
Serio: there must be a number of future WGA members reading Craig’s blog and all the in-fighting is pretty discouraging to read… doesn’t exactly give a warm and fuzzy.
Not trying to be intentionally thick about it, because I can see that tempers are high, right now, but dang… sure wish some of y’all would turn all that toward the companies and less upon each other.
…and if you go to the link below, you can see Matt’s most recent reviews of other Triggerstreet members’ scripts.
http://www.triggerstreet.com/gyrobase/Member?oid=oid%3A1136002
To think you came on here swinging around the word “disingenuous” to describe other people. And yet you represent yourself as a teacher with no stake or interest in screenwriting.
Yet, on your own blog:
…and…
Hysterical.
Seriously.
Stephen,
If you think I’m the enemy, you have already lost.
Please. If you were the enemy, the strike would have lasted 30 seconds.
And since you ARE the enemy, good luck in getting anything you actually want.
Matt, really, you completely misread and misrepresent what you see here. Who are you arguing with? Who has said what you claim that they have said and which, evidently, offends you so?
I don’t like that people have been insulting you, but you came here with your mind made up and looking for a fight. Why are you so surprised that a bunch of writers, in a very charged atmosphere, reacted the way they did to your posts?
You ignored the person who explained to you why your first volley was misplaced (see #194). You also didn’t read post #143. If you had, why would you accuse the writer of saying what he didn’t say?
Please, argue in good faith. And read closely. It’s a skill I’m sure you have but are choosing to deploy at your convenience.
I’m sure there are other people like me simply reading. This stuff is entertaining for a while, but then it turns pointless and soul-crushing.
And completely shameless to boot. Amazing.
Soul-crushing indeed.
Glad to hear you have no interest in joining the WGA. We’d be worse off if you were. At least the rest of us deal in honesty, for better or for worse.
‘Night.
R.,
What exactly am I saying?
I’m saying you writers have a valid issue, but need to express it better.
And I’ve been attacked.
The real point YOU need to honestly try and figure out is within what the industry does, not what I say.
Whatever you think of me, I’m NOT expressing an opinion that different from most of the people I know.
Despite how Matt came across, or what else he said, I do believe he brings up a valid point. One that I have mentioned. For a group of writers, the WGA has not done a good job of PR. The AMPTP are pros at PR and it shows. The information the public is getting about the writers is that they are rich and greedy and taking jobs away from people who make a lot less than them. On this site, and others Ive been to, this is the common misconception from people who don’t support the writers.
I think there are reasons why the WGA doesn’t bring out it’s struggling writers to represent them. Firstly, no one knows writers names to begin with, but when you’ve never even heard what he wrote, who is going to listen to him? Secondly, what struggling writer is going to want everyone to know that he makes next to nothing?
I think the WGA needs to realize that, while there is some support for writers, they are slowly losing the PR battle. Right now, it doesn’t look so bad, but in a few months I’m guessing that will have changed.
Stephen,
You’re full of shit.
Good luck in your career.
typical writers…listening to themselves speak…only now no one is paying you…
Go after me all you want, but unless there’s a serious change of strategy, you guys are going to lose, and lose badly.
You don’t want to believe me when I say I think you’re losing the PR battle.
But that’s not really relevant, you ARE losing it.
I didn’t mean to come here to attack and be attacked.
Dismiss me if you want.
You will still lose in the long run unless you make some REAL choices now.
I’m really glad you all are thinking about your careers in 2020.
-Matt
Stephen,
You STILL have an open invitation to come do what I do on a daily basis.
I think it would be a mistake for the Guild to bring out struggling writers to represent them, as you put it.
Nothing could be more calculated to backfire if you had the Companies themselves handling PR for the Guild.
All anyone would have to do is point and say hypocrites!
Don’t make the public face of this strike about money. Make it about fairness. Fairness is a concept everyone understands.
Look, I realize that the strike is uncomfortable. Some, maybe most, writers have no experience with it and will say things that can rub people the wrong way (like complaining about their 4 hours on their feet). And some of the writers picketing are very rich.
But you are in the right. I honestly believe that.
Matt, I don’t have an opinion on you. And I’m not in the Guild. And I agree about the needing to express it better part. But you attacked first. I humbly suggest you take a break for the night. Maybe you can start over tomorrow and make a better case for whatever it is you were trying to say. Read before posting. Always works.
387 was me.
If people actually read what I wrote, we wouldn’t be fifty comments down the line.
I’m not saying anything that outrageous.
Matt, okay now I have an opinion about what you are doing here. Not cool.
Good night!
pwned!
If my response ran far afield of your context, then you’re obviously no longer talking about the Writers Guild, the MBA, the negotiations, the strike, the strike rules, labor law, intellectual property law, the relationship between screen and teleplays and motion pictures or the philosophical basis of authorship.
Which the rest of your post reveals to be exactly the case.
Clearly, you are using the words “writer” and “director” in a context that gives them a different meaning from what I understand them to mean, or how they’re used in the film industry, or how they are commonly understood. Which, you know, is fine, but I’m not really interested in having a discussion that is nothing more than a rhetorical debate about the meaning of words.
My wife is member of the WGA (inactive, some episodic TV in the late 80s) so I’m entirely sympathetic with your goals.
PR-wise, the best argument I heard was 4 cents per DVD. That’s peanuts. You guys deserve more — and something for the internet, too. As someone said above, stick to the issue of fairness.
Solidarity: where were you writers during the 2000 SAG commercial actors strike? Every time I hear the WGA talk about solidarity, I feel like puking. I wouldn’t push that if I were you.
Somewhat off-topic, I’d like artists/production designers to get a piece of the action too. Who here thinks the writing of Darth Vader is more important than his costume? And should the writer get a piece of the merchandising of the Spider-Man action figures and Steve Ditko zilch?
That, too, is unfair.
Personally, when all is said and done, future generations may praise Patric Verrone and all of us who made sacrifices so that the WGA doesn’t get left out of “new media.”
I’ve gotten a private communication that our Governor is very much “in the mix” right now. Despite his favoritism towards management, he does like to be seen as a hero of the people, so as long as he can put emphasis on ending this impasse before the year is out, then I’m fully behind it.
Matt, you’re not a school teacher but actually a wannabe screenwriter. You should have said so instead of declaring that we’re an inarticulate, unruly lot. The truth is, you wish you were one of us.
“Matt, you’re not a school teacher but actually a wannabe screenwriter. You should have said so instead of declaring that we’re an inarticulate, unruly lot. The truth is, you wish you were one of us.”
I could have very easily of hidden behind the cloak of anonymity, like you, but what I have been saying is not wrong, and if you want to dismiss the message because I have written a couple screenplays, then go for it. (At least read them first before dismissing them.)
I think you guys are IN THE RIGHT for striking, but you’re doing a piss poor job of articulating your point of view. And I’ve been slammed for that.
However, I never once attacked any of you personally, yet I’ve been subject to any number of personally directed insults.
Right or wrong, at least I put my name behind what I say.
Can you say the same?
Maybe you all think I’m full of shit, but you know what? Let’s see what you say when the strike sorts itself out. I have a day job that I love, and despite posts here to the contrary, I’m quite good at.
At the very least I respect Steven, Kay and everyone else who has put their names to their opinions.
They don’t agree with what I’m saying, but at least they have an honesty you’re quite clearly lacking.
-Matthew Stephen Spira
I’m a WGA writer. I never write in blogs but since I can’t write now anyway…
I was in the PR business for 10 years before becoming a professional writer. I got out of the corporate world because of the office politics. So much for that idea. Anyway, I learned a lot when I was in that business regarding what “the masses” think. So here it is in a nutshell.
I guess my point is that if Patrick Verrone (and is it me or is this guy kind of creepy?) thinks that shouting “we’re kicking corporate ass!” at Fox plaza is going to get us a deal, he must really like the smell of his own farts.
Picketing isn’t going to do anything. If that’s our only strategy than we’re screwed. Please WGA, tell me you have something more.
If not, than it’s gonna be a long wait. ‘Cause those assassins at the other end of the table aren’t gonna feel the pain for a long time, if ever.
WGA, you got us here. Now what?
Craig:
Even though it probably means exactly jack coming from someone you don’t know at all, who isn’t in the Guild (yet), etc., I want to say that I think it’s good that you’re walking the line with your non-writing obligations and not falling into the crazy extremist fervor. Fulfilling obligations that don’t have anything to do with the Strike while also maintaining the conditions of the Strike is tricky.
I believe that if you have given your word as a Director, then you need to complete the task, not abandon it purely to say “fuck you” to the town. That’s cool to see. The truth is, I believe, in the middle, the balance, not in the extremes.
Thanks.
Craig, Josh and Ted all make money at levels that the minimums don’t even touch.
I’m willing to bet that the vast majority of working WGA members who post here do not work for the minimums either.
And there is nothing wrong with them getting what they can demand. But, is it unfair to ask to what extent the guild actually plays in their market value?
And is it wrong to ask just exactly how many people actually have stakes in the game? How many writers, really, are going to be effected by the outcome of the issues at stake in the current strike?
I have been insulted on any number of levels for posting my opinion. This hasn’t been a dialogue so much as a lynching.
The disdainful arrogance of some of you is actually kind of breathtaking.
Just to cross my t’s and dot my i’s, the above post was mine.
Matt,
I work for guild minimums. And I think your initial posts were wrong.
I agree that we’re losing the PR game, but I’m not sure that matters. It’s just fluff for the public to swallow. For us to even try to explain the politics, business, and numbers of Hollywood is absurd.
An example of poor PR planning: That hard and sad number of $0.04 has been used in contrast with three different numbers: 14, 19, 28.95.
But in the past two weeks they’re starting to get the PR word out to the people who matter: WGA writers.
I was scared shitless up to Sunday’s negotiation because I had no idea what the Guild was doing. I thought they were being militant and reckless. And why did I think that? Because their PR sucked.
This week I love them and I think what they’re doing is smart.
But just because I think you’re wrong doesn’t mean you deserved what happened to you. And the fact that you kept your insults within the context of this forum, that you didn’t fall to the level of googling your opponents, was admirable.
Matt,
I am getting the sense (and this is not an insult; it’s my honest impression based on what you’ve written) that you don’t have a very clear picture of what “the issues at stake in the current strike” are in the first place. I say this because you keep harping on minimums, as if they were the only issue on the table (or even in the top three or four, importance-wise). They’re not.
So, to attempt to answer your question about who’s affected by this:
If unpaid “promotional” streaming of TV episodes is allowed to stand, it will affect every writer who works in television. Period. Every damn one. I won’t rehash the reasons why; this thread has explored them in detail already. (If you haven’t read all the hundreds of comments—and who could blame you?—just search this page for the word “rerun” and see what you come up with.)
If the current DVD rate is applied to paid downloads, it will affect every movie writer and a sizeable fraction of television writers (exempting only those whose series die so quickly that they are never made available for online purchase or rental in the first place).
If the AMPTP’s desired increases in the low-budget thresholds go through, the base compensation for a large swath of TV writers will be cut by half. And I can assure you that many, many staff-level writers in television do work for exactly Guild minimum, simply because there’s so much competition for so few open positions every year.
The corresponding proposal on the movie side (in the AMPTP’s new Bizarro world, anything with a budget below $40 million would be considered a “low budget movie”) would have the same effect on the compensation of screenwriters—and here, your question about who actually gets paid the minimum rates finally does come into play. So allow me to tell you who:
First-time writers, almost universally, get paid minimum on their initial deal (the exceptions are famous, but very few). As do writers who have made sales, but not yet had their work produced. As do writers whose work has been produced, but hasn’t done well commercially, and therefore doesn’t justify a bump in their quote. (I’d be willing to bet that Josh, who now makes money “at levels that the minimums don’t even touch,” could tell you stories about getting paid the minimum and being grateful for it.)
Cutting those minimum payments in half for every movie below $40 million would have a massive effect on the future pay of “middle-class writers,” not to mention all those who have yet to reach even that status. It would depress compensation in this industry for years to come, and make the gap between the “haves” and the rest of us even bigger.
So, sorry, we didn’t all just roll out of bed one morning and decide a strike would be good exercise. We have very real things at stake here. The AMPTP’s proposals are a gun pointed at the head of our profession, and at most of our heads as individuals.
I fully grant you that if the union closed its doors tomorrow, Craig, Ted and Josh would continue to do just fine—but this profession includes a hell of a lot more people than the three of them. And personally, I’m grateful that they and a few dozen other A-listers are willing to throw their their proportionally-much-greater weight (no offense, Craig and Josh) :) around to help ensure that the rest of us won’t get screwed in quite as many ways as we might otherwise. You’re right that they don’t really have to do this, but it’s nice that they do.
Oh, and one last thing: Among the AMPTP’s proposals is one little-mentioned item (in fact, I may be the first person ever to mention it in print anywhere) specifically stating that no additional money of any kind will be paid to writers if their work is reused within the context of a theme-park ride. That particular clause seems like it couldn’t be aimed at more than nine or ten screenwriters in the entire world…and one of them, I’m guessing, is Ted. So even the millionaires aren’t entirely unaffected by this stuff….
(Okay, make it two last things. I couldn’t agree more with your original point that our PR kinda sucks. I’m somewhat ambivalent about how much that fact matters, though. Within the industry, in terms of getting members of other unions to support us, it is critical, and it needs to be done much better, I think. Where the general public throughout the rest of America is concerned, though, I’m just not sure it matters much either way. They don’t like us anyway, or they wouldn’t if they ever thought about us. [Yeah, I think I just paraphrased a line from Casablanca. Badly.] Two weeks after the strike is over, they’ll have forgotten all about us again—and in the meantime, there’s very little they can or will do to help us. Unless convincing John Q. Public that we’re not a bunch of rich, greedy fucks will somehow induce the AMPTP to negotiate a better deal with us, I’d say our PR efforts would be better focused closer to home.)
SML:
“…that you didn’t fall to the level of Googling your opponents…”
Oh, geez. I didn’t Google him. He gave me his e-mail address, I put it into Blogger (which is where my home page is), and his home page came up immediately.
And I saw right away that he’d been lying outright all along.
Please.
Matt, thanks for the reasoned reply.
I agree with “R” that this should not be a personal fight with you – you don’t deserve that. But as “R” points out, you came off in your posts as if you were spoiling for a fight. Go back and read your initial posts.
Is it not apparent to you why people might have responded with hostility? It certainly does not read like you were making innocent criticisms.
MATT: “In the simplest terms I know you writers need to do a better job of articulating why the rest of us should care about your grievances.”
Well, frankly, I’m not sure it matters that much what Mr. & Mrs. American thinks. Sure, we’d love to have them on our side, but public opinion is not what will turn this fight. When the studios feel the financial pinch, that’s when they will cave, regardless of what people think. Don’t get me wrong – I would love nothing more than to have people understand and sympathize with the WGA perspective. I simply doubt it’s the critical factor.
Tim W argues that PR is important, and I agree. But the real PR battle must be waged with shareholders in mind. They are the ones who will pressure the studios to cave.
MATT: “As I have said repeatedly I do believe writers have a legitimate grievance.”
Thank you. I would hope everyone agrees writers deserve fair and adequate compensation for creating intellectual property that studios will commercially exploit to the tune of billions. Actors, directors, authors in other media (plays, books, articles, scientific papers, etc), and inventors are afforded such economic rights. It seems natural to me, so should TV, film and new media writers.
MATT: “What “I think” is the valid criticism is the approach employed. Will the WGA writers get what they want out of this situation?”
I guess this is the part that leaves me head-scratching. What approach did the WGA employ that you find so objectionable? Are you referring to the inadequate PR again? Or do you mean the fact that the WGA leadership chose a course of action that has resulted in a strike? Regardless, I believe the AMPTP deserves a little credit, here.
MATT: “You will still lose in the long run unless you make some REAL choices now.”
What? You act as if writers have a choice. What “choice” is the WGA failing to exercise? It is the AMPTP that is refusing to bargain. How is that possibly a WGA choice?
MATT: “And is it wrong to ask just exactly how many people actually have stakes in the game? How many writers, really, are going to be effected by the outcome of the issues at stake in the current strike?”
Every writer has a huge stake in this. Why don’t you get that? You seem to believe the strike is a conspiracy of A-listers.
Every single writer will be affected by the minimums, although that’s not really the key issue at stake. The key issue is Internet compensation. And as many others have stated, tyro and middle-class writers rely on residuals to smooth the financial peaks and valleys in between paid assignments, not just A-listers.
JP Wolff
“It’s just fluff for the public to swallow. For us to even try to explain the politics, business, and numbers of Hollywood is absurd.”
SML,
I know you’re being sincere and well-intentioned, but do you honestly realize just how condescending the above comes across?
Do you ever consider that statements like this are why you’re “losing” the PR war in the first place?
You “writers” really are your own worst enemies.
ABIO, I understand your wish and hope that the governor could get involved, just as I understand the wishes and hopes that other people have that an ex-President could get involved. But it isn’t going to happen, and we shouldn’t spend time wondering when it will. I’m sure that Schwarzenegger’s people have given out signals that he’s “in the mix”, but all that means is that he has made the public statements we’ve already heard, and made one or two phone calls, if that. But he has no power to interfere in this matter, and he will not be doing so. From what I’ve seen, the federal mediator is not doing anything more than the mediator did back in 1988. And the idea that Bill Clinton would do anything to swing the spotlight away from his wife’s presidential campaign doesn’t make sense. As I said before, we’re not that important in the greater scheme of things.
The actual settling of this strike will take the WGA and the AMPTP sitting down at a table and working out the new contract. When the AMPTP decides they’ve made their point about how angry they are about the strike (and I see that coming around January), they’ll come back, and we’ll see where we’re at. In the meantime, I believe the DGA will already be at the table, possibly as soon as Thanksgiving. Counter has already said as much when asked - that he expected to talk to the DGA before getting back into it with the WGA. Of course, he didn’t say at the time that this would be due to his refusal to talk to the WGA, but it might have slipped his mind…
As for post 401, I agree that the AMPTP’s original proposal was horrible. And you make great points about the rollbacks in reclassifying basically 90% of everything as “low budget”. There’s other stuff too, such as saying that if a writer is paid more than scale wages, that amount would be subtracted from any residual later on. And then there was the real beaut - that the writer would no longer be credited in advertising and promotion. So yes, that whole offer was terrible. But they obviously knew that. I don’t think anybody actually thought that those conditions would actually make it into any signed contract. Those were all just points that could be dropped to allow them to keep the real ones (no increase on DVD, minimum residuals of internet) in the final contract. And, as we saw last Sunday, that last one was the key. (My gut says that they didn’t think the WGA would seriously negotiate before SAG, so they threw a lot of BS in there just to create talking points. How else do you explain rollbacks that severe and ridiculous?)
I’m personally wondering what the AMPTP will be saying to the DGA and then to SAG. Will my guild be faced with the same ridiculous proposals? Or will they be a little more politic with their rollback attempts? I figure we’ll know within a couple of weeks.
But the current strike is not going to be solved by someone riding in like the cavalry. It will be solved by Mr. Counter and Messrs Verrone, Bowman and Young at the table, and hopefully that will be sooner rather than later. But I wouldn’t expect the talking to happen before January. That’s a normal part of the process of a strike. This is a long haul, and we’re only one week into it.
Indeed. We’re in the early days of fervor right now.
I think after the dust settles, the injustice pimps (Jessie Jackson, etc.) go home and writers have a chance to sober up…I think the debates will get a little less religious and a little more substantive.
JP, I admire your optimism, but I strongly doubt you will ever see the AMPTP “cave”. The ones who will be feeling the financial pinch are never the ones with the money. It’s always the people who are out on strike, and the ones caught between the striking guild and the employers. But let’s not fool ourselves into thinking that GE or Time Warner are going to feel even a pinch from this. The only long-term financial effect this may have will be for them to lose some TV viewers, but that may already be in their long-term planning as more and more material heads to the internet anyway. If you’re waiting for companies this big to “cave” to one Hollywood guild, I think you’re going to be waiting a long time.
This doesn’t mean that the WGA doesn’t have absolutely valid points, or that the strike was unnecessary. I do believe that the negotiations could have been handled differently, but we’re way past that now. In other words, the AMPTP presented horrible conditions, and they bear a large part of the responsibility for this. But to say that the WGA had no part in it seems to bely the fact that it takes two sides to make an argument or a fight. However, given what happened last Sunday, there really wasn’t any option for the WGA at that time and in those conditions. And yes, you’re correct that the AMPTP is refusing to talk right now. And they will continue to refuse to talk until after the holidays, most likely. That’s their way of “teaching” the WGA (and by extension the rest of us in the business) “a lesson” about what happens when you strike during the holiday season. That’s not a judgment in any way - just a fact that we have to live with now.
Oh, wow- I just caught up on last night’s posts.
Matt — you writte screenplays yet neglected to mention it?
This after demanding Josh be forthcoming about what he earns?
Oh - too much.
Matt:
Say it again, say it again!!!
Matt,
I wrote you a very clear and polite response and not only did you not even mention or address it, but it turns out that you were dishonest about who you were.
Everyone (SusanC, Stephen, Alan, SML, etc.) don’t even address Matt anymore. All he ever wanted was attention. He LOVES the insults. Try something new.
Ignore him.
Completely.
JP,
Do you honestly think internet compensation will pay anyone’s mortgage within the next cycle of the WGA contract?
It seems to me that’s just about drawing a line in the sand so that down the road, writers don’t get screwed like they did with DVD residuals.
Look, I don’t think there’s any conspiracy going on. You guys are fighting for your cut of the pie, and there’s nothing wrong with that.
And, Craig and Josh are millionaires. They are (deservedly) well-compensated for the revenue they generate. There’s nothing wrong with that. More power to them.
What I have a problem with is that by any reasonable measurement, WGA members when working do not do poorly for themselves. Yes, I am aware of the peaks and valleys of such work, but any of you that do not use the “peaks” to prepare for the “valleys” are doing a disservice to yourselves.
What percent of the WGA are millionaires? How many other unions on the planet (outside of the entertainment industry) have a comparable financial distribution within their memberships?
You’re also doing a disservice to your cause when you try to portray yourselves as victims. You make a choice to work in that industry. Nobody is forcing you to write. And it isn’t a God given right to do so.
With perhaps a couple exceptions, every single one of you, if necessary, can be doing something else to make ends meet.
You have a legitimate beef, but if you can’t understand just how unsympathetic (and arrogant/entitled) you come across, that’s on you.
Stephen can continue to insult me all he wants, but the fact of the matter remains you (generic) need to do a much better job of articulating your side of the story. Amd going after me doesn’t really advance your cause in the slightest.
Frankly it’s astounding to me that “professional” writers are so hamhanded and inarticulate as evidenced in this thread.
Oh, Kevin — but it’s so difficult to resist responding to him.
Matt: I read one of your pages.
That’s a very interesting list, for those who know any history of this guild. It’s quite significant - to me and anyone else who went through the last strike - that Lionel Chetwynd has signed the petition.
Why, you ask?
Well, because in the 1980s, Chetwynd was one of the main organizers of The Blue Dogs - the writers who refused to support the strike in 1985, which led to its premature demise and led directly to why the 1988 strike was so long, and in 1988 Chetwynd was one of those who advocated people going Financial Core (obviously, he didn’t listen to his own advice, since that is a one-way door).
So, if even Lionel Chetwynd! is supporting this strike and doing so publicly, we are one helluva lot more unified than ever before. This is a Good Thing.
Welcome home, Mr. Chetwynd.
And my nominee for Hero of the Strike is Shawn Ryan, because that post of his brought out the other showrunners, and that is going to be the thing that kills the other side. BTW - there are a lot of “stand up guys” in “stand up guy professions” (cops, firefighters, Army Rangers) who have seen that statement (it’s now on some of their discussion boards) and it has generated Serious Support for the WGA from folks who might not have thought of so doing otherwise.
Kevin and Susan (et all),
What you think of me will not change your situation one iota.
Do you honestly think that the position I’m espousing is really that different from how most people view your strike?
It comes across at the privileged fighting against the privileged.
If you don’t think you need to do a much better job of articulating the issues from your POV, then that’s on you.
I got sucked into this debate, but it doesn’t matter to me one way or the other how your strike gets resolved. When I walk away from this thread, what happens to you has no impact whatsoever on how I live my life.
And yes I’ve written some screenplays, but you know what? You guys come across as spoiled, whiny brats who are entirely too satisfied with your own cleverness.
If you guys lose this fight, you have only yourselves to blame.
SusanC:
Hey, what’s the weather like in LA? I just got back to NY and it’s freezing. Can’t wait to get back to LA.
“Frankly it’s astounding to me that “professional” writers are so hamhanded and inarticulate as evidenced in this thread.”
Matt, I’ve read some of your screenplay pages and am mightily impressed. Yes, siree. We definitely need to get into business together and start makin’ movie magic.
I gave a great idea about a transvestite middle school teacher who tries to win an international poker tournament so he can afford a sex change. Wanna’ read the treatment?
Matt,
What happens to the writers has no impact on your life? Aren’t you an aspiring screenwriter?
What a very short-sighted comment.
Hey Ed,
I’ll pass.
I know you and Susan are both trying to disparage my writing skills, but again, what you think of me (or my writing) has ZERO influence on your situation.
Tear into me all you want, but it just doesn’t change the reality of the situation.
And feel free to e-mail me one of your scripts if you really want to walk your smirking talk.
You’re current punching bag has some good points- #411.
And, of course, you’re should be your…
Matt makes two things clear:
1 - that everyone thinks most writers are rich or irrelevant.
and
2 - that even when you tell people that many writers make a modest living, they simply won’t believe you.
To me the question is, is there any way to convince people like Matt that there is a middle class teir for writers?
I think the answer is no.
So getting to Matt’s point about us being our own worse enemies as far as PR (not that there is a PR war to be fought) no one’s gonna believe that there is a huge lot of working writers who struggle.
Kevin —
I’m not in LA nor NY. Central Florida, I was abducted from NYC by my now ex-hub, working to get out of here in the next 3 years. Temp is a crisp 60-degrees. Sorry, Kevin — I can’t resist, I’m going in …
Matt —
Matt. Matt. Matt.
Let me preface with … I’m not a pro-writer. The closest I came to a sale was one script that went wide and received a number of considers & a recommend on the writer (that would be me). It was great validation — like giving a junkie a free fix. But alas I’m no closer to my goal.
May I suggest you spend less time on Triggerstreet and more time among the pros (here and on the AW message board) who — as ham-handed as they may seem to be (in your opinion) — will teach you more than you’ll ever learn on peer review sites.
If you go on the AW message board you will find the Ask-A-Pro section.
And may I say all those white boys & gals share a lot of precious advice when they really don’t have to, you know?
Even Craig — whose movies are not my particular cup of comedy and whose conservative stance sometimes rubs me the wrong way — he doesn’t have to provide us with a forum where we can take pot-shots at him and other pros. Yet he does.
Incredibly generous with their time and knowledge. All of them.
Now, addressing your comments. No, you weren’t sucked into this debate, you rolled in blasting comments like white boys, rich writers, inarticulate. Yadda-da-yadda-da.
And it’s clear you had formed such an opinion before you logged onto this blog.
Now we discover you write screenplays providing a context for you comments.
You’re doing a bit of ‘pissing on the Buddha,’ my friend. It’s the flipside of kissing the pros’ butts.
It’s hard for me to believe anyone would write screenplays with no intention of becoming a pro. There are far more fulfilling hobbies.
This is what I sense from you in light of the new information about your screenwriting aspirations: sour grapes.
while putting everything you’ve
I’m totally frosted by your decision to not fully disclose your writing aspirations is because
Priva,
I make a comfortable living doing something I love to do. I enjoy my life. Frankly? You guys come across as incredibly bitter and cynical.
I have made a little bit of money from screenwriting (doing rewrites for a Chinese company) but at no point in the forseeable future am I going to move to LA.
I get to write what I want, and if it sells, great, if it doesn’t I don’t really care. I am doing what I want to do, and I do not need any external validation.
However, speaking as someone who pays attention to the global film market, I think Hollywood’s system is a bit of an anachronism. I think you guys live in such a bubble that you honestly don’t understand how your situation is perceived by the rest of the world. For example, SML’s comments were well-intentioned but incredibly condescending.
I’ve been consistently portrayed as some kind of idiot, and it doesn’t really bother me that you or anyone else might think so, but at some point you’ve got to understand that I am not your enemy.
“worst” enemies
Ah — did not delete my edited lines at the bottom (422). Sorry. It’s my process.
Matt:
Please note — I did not comment on the page from your screenplay. I will now.
In all honesty I would say you’re at the beginning of your learning curve. Read more professionally-written scripts. Like, a couple hundred.
Funny how Matt claims that screenwriting is just something of a hobby — but on his website, he calls himself a “semi-pro” writer who teaches English just to put food on the table.
And then there’s his 2007 resolution to get an agent.
And the part about how he just started his own production company.
And Susan?
The best writers on triggerstreet are as good as anyone else writing in the medium.
The bottleneck is opportunity and access, not talent.
Even though Craig has a seven figure quote, I doubt that he’s more inherently talented as a writer than you. Where he’s at in the business is a reflection of a lot of factors, and I’m not trying to take anything away from him, or what he’s accomplished, but let’s be honest here.
If you want to come after me for my opinions posted here, fine. I have certainly not been shying away from the fight.
However, if you want to come after my writing, read the damned things first and then get back to me.
Matt, it’s actually YOU who has no influence on our situation. The fact that you introduced yourself as an “aw shucks” plebian just offering his casual two cents on our strike is the same as hiding behind an anonymous byline. You were cowardly and concealed the truth about yourself.
Why didn’t you announce yourself as a struggling screenwriter trying to garner some attention? Anyone who joins www.triggerstreet.com is trying to get noticed — and since your arrival here you’ve been on the radar of an A-lister. This is a person you brazenly engaged, someone you probably envy, with your prime agenda to focus on his payday as if that disqualifies him from being vocal during a union dispute.
Frankly, you sound like the AMPTP who offers propaganda that writers are already overpaid en masse. You’re on the sidelines, far from the fight, harboring resentment towards a business that’s rejected you both as an actor and a prospective writer. You attacked some very nice people here and seemed surprised they gave as good as you couldn’t.
Answer me this, Matt. How would you feel if a producer in another country downloaded one of your Trigger Street scripts and produced it in another language without your knowledge? What if it took you three or four years for you to find out? Would you be flattered or outraged? If given the sole choice between seeing the work or being paid, which would you chose?
And if you did finally get paid off, how would you feel if the producer made your work available for free on the internet and made money for himself by selling advertising? What if the damn thing became popular? Would you be content that your work was getting exposure, or would you want to be compensated?
These are problems you’ll probably never have to deal with. Most people don’t.
The classic definition of “entertainment” is something that is intended to “amuse, please, or divert.” It’s very hard to educate people that something they view as a “diversion” is actually serious business for a whole lot of people walking the picket lines.
In fact, we shouldn’t really have to convince them. When folks watch “Star Wars” for the umpteeth time on DVD, TBS or an iPod… how can we expect them to care whether the guy who played “Wedge” is getting his residual check?
Our job is to keep you entertainment. If we don’t, we’ve failed you. It’s also our duty to be compensated for reuse of our work. If we don’t, we’ve failed ourselves.
“Clearly, you are using the words “writer” and “director” in a context that gives them a different meaning from what I understand them to mean…”
You bet your life, I am! I’m using the word “writer” in its most sacred sense with all the empowerment of the prime creative force that it should properly convey. The writer as God instead of the writer as hack or tool or scrivener. Shocking, I realize. But not to the novelist or playwright. It’s high time more screenwriters joined their counterparts in other media by standing up straight and exercising some ego and some intestinal fortitude. Too many years of picking up the soap has left too many screenwriters barely able to qualify as vertebrates. If this strike changes that and nothing else, it will be a success.
“…or how they’re used in the film industry, or how they are commonly understood.”
Very well said, Ted. You almost sound like you believe that. You almost sound like you’re willing to let AMPTP define what constitutes “writing” instead of writers. But it’s just BS designed to rationalize writing during a strike. Scabs can pretend that if they haven’t fired up their FINAL DRAFT software then they haven’t actually written.
But what you are really doing is selling writers short by continuing the Hollywood trend of belittling the writer’s true power in the collaborative process of telling stories on screen.
Directors have been rewriting since the industry began, expecting the writer to honor their vision instead of trying to honor the writer’s original vision. Producers, stars, and everyone else claiming the glory when it worked and blaming the screenwriter when it didn’t. “Schmucks with Underwoods?” Pardon me, Ted, but your use of the word “writer” seems to invest more in the Underwood than in the schmuck.
Do not pretend to misunderstand. I am not claiming that every daydreamer who never finishes a script is a screenwriter. But neither is every typist who manages to fill 120 pages in proper format.
“Which, you know, is fine, but I’m not really interested in having a discussion that is nothing more than a rhetorical debate about the meaning of words.”
I understand. Why would a writer be interested in the meaning of words?
Why would we actually want writers empowered with a sense of their true worth when all they’re good for is the physcial act of banging out the script?
I have to question the efficacy of a strike when a successful screenwriter dismisses the underlying cause of every issue in this strike as rhetorical debate unworthy of his time.
Maybe the WGA should call off the strike and leave the creative act of what I’m so recklessly and rebeliously calling “writing” to the producers and directors and get back to taking dictation like good little hacks.
Matt,
I truly don’t know what to say. I think there’s a HUGE difference between someone who’s a hobbyist and someone who’s willing to, you know, sacrifice a lot of things just so they can write.
I’m not “you guys.” I’m not in the WGA. I’m an aspiring writer who would give my left tit to see my work produced. I’ll even offer up my right tit. And one leg — your choice.
I’m very glad that you’ve made a little bit of money for your work. That’s incredible. However, writing is passion, and it’s totally cool that you don’t have a passion for it. But, I do. Everyone on this site does. If they could do something else, they would. But, they’re writers — it’s not a choice for them. It’s not some willy-nilly, “hey, I’m gonna try my hand at this screenwriting thing so I can make one meeellion dollars!”
I would also like to note that this is my first interaction with you. Not once did I call you an idiot, nor did I ever imply it. I did say that your comment was short-sighted. Before I knew that you were writing as a hobby. So, I apologize for that comment.
I can’t really speak for anyone else, but I don’t live in a bubble. I’m well aware that shit’s happening outside our glittery city. Frankly, a little too aware. When I hear about someone dying overseas, I’ve got to check the names. If no names are released, I’ve got to call my family to, you know, verify that — yeah. So, yeah, I’m very aware that other shit’s happening…
But, that’s really not a conversation for here. So, can we leave it at that, please? Look, I’m sure you said that so that people could gain perspective, I can appreciate that. I hope that you can gain some perspective and realize it’s not a bunch of fat cats arguing.
Anonymous,
According to how people are trying to frame me here, I’m an idiot who can’t write. (And I’ve never read a “real” screenplay in my life.)
Not a single thing I do or have done changes the situation of the WGA strike in any way, shape or form. Nothing I say or do impacts you.
You guys are losing this fight all on your own.
“You guys come across as incredibly bitter and cynical.”
Do you think “The Wild Bunch,” “Silence of the Lambs” and “Clockwork Orange” were written from the sunny side of the street?
Since you’ve referenced China, there’s an old proverb that comes from the region: “The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism.”
“I have made a little bit of money from screenwriting (doing rewrites for a Chinese company) but at no point in the forseeable future am I going to move to LA.”
I think I saw one of your flicks: “Crouching Paper Tiger, Hidden Agenda.”
Sitting down to write anything is hard. I actually respect ANYONE who finishes a screenplay. That includes you, but you’ve approached people here with a jaundiced attitude.
I’m planning to move to China because I hear the women are impressed by TV credits from the eighties. How’s the weather today?
Stephen,
“…He gave me his e-mail address, I put it into Blogger (which is where my home page is), and his home page came up immediately…”
So you used his trust against him, is basically what you’re saying…
You smeared him, bro. He may have been lying about who he is, but who he is has nothing to do with this debate (about writers’ salaries, PR, and what have you… I know there’s a retort to this and all I have to say is Bill Clinton).
There are so many dip shits who come on here and spew vomit about us and hide behind their clever nicknames - most notably anonymous - that it’s fucked up when we cannibalize the brave.
It’s happened to Kay, to Josh, to me, to Craig, I thought to you (I was wrong… HALO is a video game… I’m a square), to Priya, and a myriad of others who have blessed us with their real names.
I realize I’m being a cocksucker, but since the policing here is patchy at best (see Louise B.), I’ve obnoxiously taken it upon myself to deal backhanded judgment.
Consider yourself served.
Matt,
Condescending? I was being condescending… to the WGA’s PR department…
Hollywood, as I’m slowly and painfully learning, is an absurd place. You’d have to be Jean Paul Sartre to explain it. Have you read Sartre? That guy originated the term circle jerk.
When the WGA simplifies, throws out hard numbers (like say 0.04), it’s throwing fluff into the public wind. They symbolically say, “Look how much we take. It’s not that much.” And that’s what the AMPTP wants them to say.
Because when the AMPTP throws out their hard numbers (say 260 mil) they drop like rocks on a logic-minded public. It allows them to say, “Look at those greedy, rich fuckers. Look how generous we are. Look how much we give.”
To the outside world, the AMPTP are giant teats and the WGA are the sucklers. And that’s a familiar, logical, capitalistic model we’ve all grown up on.
But what the logic-minded public can’t see, or is unwilling to see, what makes Hollywood an absurd place, and is impossible to explain, is the intricacy of how, in this narrow instance, the teat cannot exist without the suckler (and vice versa).
Writers!
Use all of your powers and mental capacities to ignore . It’s not worth it. There’s a big difference between honest debate and someone who came here under false pretenses.
Let’s gang up on someone else who isn’t so smart.
(Hey…why is everyone looking at me?)
“Our job is to keep you entertainment. If we don’t, we’ve failed you. It’s also our duty to be compensated for reuse of our work. If we don’t, we’ve failed ourselves.”
Hey Anonymous because you can,
At least I put my name to my comments. I don’t back down from anyone, including you, coming after me.
And for all the crap that I’ve been taking, I HAVEN’T disputed your (any of you) rights to try and be properly compensated for what you do.
How many times do I have to say I think this strike is valid?
My meta-point, which obviously has been lost in all the chuff, is I don’t think you’re doing a very good job of articulating your position to people who otherwise DON’T CARE.
And at the end of the day, that’s not my problem but yours.
Kevin,
Matt is a soapbox on which I must stand.
Matt, you write:
“The best writers on triggerstreet are as good as anyone else writing in the medium. The bottleneck is opportunity and access, not talent.”
Oh my! Oh my! Wait - let me take a deep breath and resist allowing my Sicilian ire go all postal.
Ahhhh. I’m okay now.
1) The above quote reveals your entire agenda.
2) The above quote is bullshit.
Even my miniscule experience proves you wrong.
Access? Opportunity?
I’m not in LA or NY. I’m female, I’m way older than the average newbie. I have no insider access.
And I got “access” to representation via an emailed script. Email! That’s it! No elbow-rubbing at p;arties. No ‘my cousin went to school with your sister.’
Email!
Let me tell you Matt, if your script even hints at the possibility of making the cash register ring, you and your buds at Triggerstreet will get access.
It’s ALL about talent, bubbalah.
It pisses you off that Craig’s become rich on his films?
As I said, not my cup of comedy, but in his genre he’s the man. And no other writer has come along with the talent to usurp him.
Matt - your lack of self-awareness is astounding.
You’re pissing on the Buddha because you’ve yet to be “discovered.”
At least admit it.
Matt,
I don’t think you’ve been as hostile as some people do.
Still, you’ll toss one antagonistic line at the bottom of one of your posts, and then we’re here.
So, you have not been as nasty as some of the people responding to you, but you have antagonised. And on-line, you know where that ends up.
Hopefully there will be a new topic soon.
SML,
“But who he is has nothing to do with this debate.”
I agree. Well, sort of. When he showed up as a teacher, I wondered why a teacher was so interested in this debate, why he’d trawl through hundreds of posts — I thought it a little odd. Finding out that he’s an aspiring writer puts it in perspective, hobbyist or not, it’s a lot less odd.
Attacking him for his quality of writing, however, is totally below the belt, unnecessary, and not on point.
As some wise French guy once said, “Hell is other people.”
And as I say every Sunday: GO VIKES!
SML:
No, you’re not being a cocksucker. I just disagree with your assessment that I smeared him. I exposed him.
SML:
And by the way — your insistence that Matt was somehow “brave” because he just his first name is a little questionable.
Steven,
You got all exposey on him. You ran an expose’. Those who disagree with your style call it an indecent exposure, but I think Matt’s argument went south and needed some Northern Exposure.
Thread dead?
Susan,
Thank you for the first genuine laugh I’ve had from this thread.
Would you care to quote me to support any of the things you just asserted about what I supposedly believe?
Where exactly have I said that Craig isn’t deserving of what’s coming his way?
Also, which script of mine of you specifically refering to? I have written more than one.
And oddly enough…
Nevermind. You’re so out there at the moment that it’s not even worth the effort.
Again, FOR THE RECORD, the WGA strike is based on legitimate grievances, but you WGA writers have to ask yourself whether or not the course of action you’re pursuing is going to get you what you want?
I have been personally attacked in any number of ways for any number of tangential reasons, but if you WGA writers are going to focus on results, not process, you’ve got to be asking the same questions I am.
“I don’t think you’re doing a very good job of articulating your position to people who otherwise DON’T CARE.”
Matt, have you forgotten about what life is like in this country as well as the people’s right to be uninformed?
Cod is almost extinct, due to trolling methods that disparage the ocean’s floor. Heathnet rewards analysts who cancel policies due to technicalities. The public probably could care less about all this too. The fact that they should certainly won’t change things.
You’re a teacher, so can you tell me what senate bill 71 is? If you use Google, that’s fair.
Most people stay uniformed all their lives. The general public’s fullest indoctrination to the situation in Burma will probably come from the new “Rambo” movie.
Still, you seem blissfully unaware of how you’re replicating what’s happened during this strike. By attacking us, we’ve stopped harping on each other and have banded together. So, thanks!
“Thread’s dead, baby. Thread’s dead.” - Q.T.
Matt,
Sorry to be the soft, fuzzy one here, but I’m just catching up. Ignore this board. We’re a bunch of writers concerned about our future. Go get yours. Go write. May your talent find opportunity and access. Join us. Follow your dream. (Soft piano chords under the last part.)
Matt, this is understandably a tough crowd. These people have a lot to lose and you did make some pretty broad generalizations - why would you even use the race card? This is LA - white is a minority.
That being said, I agree that WGA sucks at PR. And I disagree with anyone who doesn’t think the public’s perspective is relevant. You create entertainment for millions of people. These people do care that their favorite shows are going off the air. It helps your case if they know that it is the AMPTP at fault and not you. These people also have time to write letters, send faxes, peanuts, emails whatever. Remember how many people actually give a crap about American Idol and PAY to text message. Also, you want the local public on your side, because this strike will have suck a huge ripple effect. It really does sound short-sighted to say that it doesn’t matter what anyone thinks outside the WGA.
Matt says: “Would you care to quote me to support any of the things you just asserted about what I supposedly believe?”
Yes, I will.
“The best writers on triggerstreet are as good as anyone else writing in the medium. The bottleneck is opportunity and access, not talent.”
The last line especially — it speaks volumes.
Alan,
I agree with Stephen that the thread’s dead, but the condescension that consistently comes from you guys is astounding.
I did say that I thought Stephen was full of shit, but I never once questioned the intelligence of any of you.
There’s at least ten different people in this thread who have basically said that I’m an idiot.
Hey, maybe you’re right, maybe I AM an idiot.
But you know what? You guys are supposedly writers, but you don’t seem to understand that there IS a difference between attacking a message and a messenger.
I hope your negotiating folks are a hell of a lot more savvy than what the rest of your have demonstrated here.
I’m done. Have a nice life.
“Remember how many people actually give a crap about American Idol and PAY to text message.”
Natalie, “American Idol” is one of our biggest headaches. Once that juggernaut returns, the dearth of new scripted programs will be totally irrelevant. “Idol” will be one network’s ultimate vanguard for riding out the strike.
Stephen,
He gave you enough of himself for you to use it against him.
To be fair, he deserved to be spanked and I’m all for spanking with a firm open palm. But you cracked the guy with a baseball bat and let the vultures fly in to pick his bones.
“To be fair, he deserved to be spanked and I’m all for spanking with a firm open palm. But you cracked the guy with a baseball bat and let the vultures fly in to pick his bones.”
This is perhaps the greatest sentence you’ve ever written. God, I love these images. I’m saving this one.
Matt,
“Seriously, you WGA writers are your own worst enemies. I’m basically on your side, but you’re doing a piss poor job of keeping me there.”
This reminds me of the old AOL days, when everybody thought the writers were there to hand out advice. Do some of the work yourself, dude.
“I have never insulted you personally. Can you say the same?”
I only react to what’s there, Matt. You can go on and on about how you haven’t insulted me and the other writers here, but you have. It’s obvious you don’t see that, which is a bad trait in a writer.
“What I am suggesting is that YOU (generic) are not pursuing the optimal strategy for achieving what you want to achieve.”
Well, those of us who are in this every day, who are actually affected by the strike, thank you greatly for your input. Seriously, Matt, did you think coming in here and lecturing us about what we’re doing wrong was a good idea? The thing I’m trying to get across on a daily basis is that right now, we need to be supportive. I’m out there every day and that’s the mindset I take with me. So when I come in here and read snarky comments by someone like you, I respond.
“Alan, Kay, Josh and anyone else can continue to attack me on a personal level, but my God, if this is how you treat people sympathetic to you…”
So your idea of sympathy is to accuse us of being rich white men? I think you need to work on that. Even though you say you’re sympathetic, your words say otherwise.
“In the simplest terms I know you writers need to do a better job of articulating why the rest of us should care about your grievances.”
You’re making an erroneous assumption, Matt. My job isn’t to convince you that you should care about the strike or about our proposals. This is, unfortunately, the modern American attitude. People can’t be arsed to figure anything out on their own. They sit back and wait for someone to explain it to them. While your vote would be important in a political arena, it simply isn’t here. As others have said, it’s the others in the industry who need to understand because they are directly affected by our action.
“I don’t care what you think.
It makes ZERO difference in my life. However, what I THINK (by extension of the fact that I represent a not-insignificant demographic) makes a VERY significant different in yours.”
No, it doesn’t. At all. You are irrelevant. None of us is running for president. You’ll still watch your TeeVee shows and see your movies. What’s funny is, there ARE people – folks just like you – who’ve managed to figure out what’s going on and they support us not because we pat them on the head and give them candy, but because they think we’re right. It’s lovely to have that kind of support. But someone like you, who wants to be lauded for saying you support us, forget it. Not interested. Public support in this cause is, at the moment, a bonus. But is your support as necessary as a Teamster’s? Not even close.
“I’m willing to bet that the vast majority of working WGA members who post here do not work for the minimums either.”
Will you STOP with that? You don’t know what you’re talking about.
“And there is nothing wrong with them getting what they can demand. But, is it unfair to ask to what extent the guild actually plays in their market value?
And is it wrong to ask just exactly how many people actually have stakes in the game? How many writers, really, are going to be effected by the outcome of the issues at stake in the current strike?”
See, Matt, this is why you’re being roughed up. You come in here with your assumptions, you’re corrected, you continue to assert those same assumptions, and people get angry. WE ARE ALL GOING TO BE AFFECTED. Okay? Will you just believe that??
“What I have a problem with is that by any reasonable measurement, WGA members when working do not do poorly for themselves. Yes, I am aware of the peaks and valleys of such work, but any of you that do not use the “peaks” to prepare for the “valleys” are doing a disservice to yourselves.”
Oh my God. You really don’t understand a bloody thing, do you? Yeah, we’re all irresponsible with our money. I get a residual check and I just blow the whole thing on smack and fast cars. How DARE you. Seriously. This is why you’re getting reamed, Matt. How insulting. Do NOT presume to understand our financial situation.
“What percent of the WGA are millionaires? How many other unions on the planet (outside of the entertainment industry) have a comparable financial distribution within their memberships?”
And… here you go again. You know, if a kid burns his hand on a hot stove, chances are good he won’t touch the stove again. But here you are, burning your hand over and over again. When will you learn?
“Frankly it’s astounding to me that “professional” writers are so hamhanded and inarticulate as evidenced in this thread.”
Irony. Look it up.
Regarding your screenwriting blog… now it all becomes clear. You IS a writer! But it is interesting that you don’t seem to understand a thing about how the business works.
I have to say one last thing…
SML, you’re full of shit too.
Feel free to think that you’ve accomplished something by supposedly beating up on me, but what changes here?
You’re still going to write for the minimums, whatever they are, and chase the dream.
I’m going to step up from this computer, and spend time with my very nice family in my very nice house.
And tomorrow, I go back to a job I love to do.
This entire conversation doesn’t change anything in my life whatsoever. It just does not matter to me one way or the other how you are compensated.
But if you guys think the opinion of people like me doesn’t matter to what you do, I think you’re sorely mistaken.
However, I’m just an idiot, so what do I know?
Mike S,
“Kay: yeah, I know what you mean by the fishbowl effect, but as a former journalist (who, having worked for a corporate-owned newspaper knows that corporation ownership doesn’t really impinge on reporters or coverage in this type of situation— seriously) I do think a better communications strategy by the WGA would result in more balanced media coverage.
And by ‘better communication strategy’ I mostly mean a) a tighter focus on fairness (rather than about how residuals are cheap R&D for the studios or help people with their mortgages) and b) more press conferences to nail that focus home.
Better media strategy might not actually impact negotiations, but then again, it might. Certainly wouldn’t hurt.”
I vow we do away with the word ‘mortgages’ because we don’t all have a mortgage. But I know what you mean, and that’s evidenced by what’s happening on this board. We all fell for Nick Counter’s ludicrous $200,000 statement and it would have been nice if the WGA had answered that with a plea of fairness. My go-to response now is that everything we’re asking for would result in less than someone like Chernin makes every year. This seems to be opening peoples’ eyes.
Malcolm,
“Again, Matt, most writers spend a lot of time unemployed. But they’re still writing. They’re writing specs that will get them jobs (or a magical sale). And once they get jobs, they are very likely to end up unemployed again. When they’re unemployed, they’ll have to write specs again.
It goes on like that until a writer gets a produced movie. And if the movie bombs, he/she can end up unemployed again.
Now this isn’t the only scenerio, but it’s a common one. It’s inaccurate to say that unemployed writers are somehow not real “working” writers. You gotta understand that we’re working hard as fuck and not being paid. If you sell a spec script for 200 grand, after taxes and commisions, you’re gonna bring home 100. That 100K can easily be the only money you make for the next 3 years.”
Well said. Most people – Matt included – don’t seem to understand the freelance nature of our business. In TV, unless you are lucky enough to get on staff on a hit show, you have to try and get a new job every year. And if you don’t get a job, you have to try and sell a pilot. It’s not about writing a script and then you’re done, certainly not when you’re pitching pilots. I wonder how many people would stick it out if they knew how hard it really was. There’s a lot of envy associated with our business; nobody envies a plumber. But when we’re paid, we’re well paid, and there’s a valid reason for that. People who are teachers, people who have regular and stable jobs, have a tough time processing how we get paid. Hell, my family is still a little fuzzy on the subject.
Stephen,
“But yeah, I agree — Clinton’s probably one of a handful of high-profile folks who could have a chance at brokering some kind of deal…”
I choose Bono. This shit would be over if he was involved.
Kevin,
“It’s sad to think this thing will probably go on well into January. Fuck the kids, I’m talking about missing 24.”
Since they will have only about eight episodes done, will they have to call it 8?
SML:
Love the line about the vultures, too.
By the way — apparently both you AND I are full of shit. :)
Alan, I know. I can’t stand that show, but it gets $750,000 for a 30 sec slot, so the public loves it! I’m just using it as an examples that fans care enough about their shows to do more than watch them. They blog about them, text about them, etc…
Holy crap, Matt. SML’s spent a fair portion of this last hour defending you. Not your arguments, but the way he felt you were unfairly treated.
Talk about ungrateful.
Sheesh.
The thing is. You can go to the job you love tomorrow. You know who can’t?
Kay:
Yeah — definitely Bono. Him and Clinton could wrap this up in time to hit the strip clubs.
Vulture? Moi?
I think Stephen did the right thing.
Matt swooped in voicing his opinions in declarative sentences as if he was stating undeniable facts.
He also threw race and gender into the mix early on, among other insulting remarks (whiny, ham-handed, etc.)
Yet he takes no responsibility for his part in the shitstorm that followed even before it was revealed he’s a Triggerstreet guy.
He ignored at least 100 plus posts which addressed his questions honestly and clearly.
In my opinion, he wasn’t looking for a debate, he was looking to lecture pros on what they should do.
And he was shocked to find we didn’t sit quietly, hands on desk, and listen.
Matt’s agenda was set in stone before his first post.
Of course all of the above is my opinion of recent events.
As Matt proceeds to make a right tit of himself, Priya offers up her right tit.
What a wonderful piece of symmetry.
I just can’t help myself:
Priva,
WGA members can’t go back to work tomorrow because they’re on strike.
As I have said consistently, the grievances are legitimate.
However, and this is where I consistently get into trouble, I have to wonder whether or not the methods employed will actually get the WGA members what they want?
Maybe I’m making myself an easy target, but I fail to see any of you are advancing your cause.
Kay,
I understand the nature of freelancing, but what conveniently doesn’t get mentioned is that doing so is a CHOICE. You are CHOOSING to pursue this path.
Whenever you CHOOSE to do something else, your circumstances change. The obvious point to be made is it’s all within your set of choices.
However, feel free to continue to beatings. I’m obviously a cheap and easy target.
You bastards! I hope you’re all happy.
Matt is gone.
All Matt wanted was to have a polite discussion with us, but you drove him away.
GOOD JOB!!!
Matt, if you should happen to check in just one more time, know this…
The internet is for fighting, not discussing. How dare you come on this blog and not fight.
How DARE you.
It’s possible we’re “losing” the PR battle in South Korea.
Here, however, are the results from the latest ABC poll here in America…
“Who do you support in the strike?
The writers — 61 % The studios — 8% Neither side — 22%
Not bad.
Thread dead.
SML,
“He may have been lying about who he is, but who he is has nothing to do with this debate”
Who Matt is has exactly EVERYTHING to do with this “debate.”
The whole point of posting under your name is you bring the weight of who you are to the table. Anyone who wants can imdb me, or go back and find some of my pro-Hitler rants and throw any or all of it in my face. That’s the name of the game. Yes, your comments carry more legitimacy, but you risk someone finding out you’re secretly an aspiring screenwriter.
Vince,
Holy shit. Nice Vulcan-baiting.
Hail, brother.
Matt,
“My meta-point, which obviously has been lost in all the chuff, is I don’t think you’re doing a very good job of articulating your position to people who otherwise DON’T CARE.”
Duly noted. Now go troll some other place.
“The best writers on triggerstreet are as good as anyone else writing in the medium. The bottleneck is opportunity and access, not talent.”
Whew.
Seriously. Go troll somewhere else. I hear there are baseball players who make one million dollars a game. They need a good talking to. And, you know, there are guys in the minor leagues who are just as good as they are.
“You guys are supposedly writers, but you don’t seem to understand that there IS a difference between attacking a message and a messenger.”
I’m a big fan of two-for-one.
Face it- this is the most attention you’ve ever gotten from Hollywood. See how easy the internet makes it?
“I just can’t help myself:”
A fact that is not lost on anyone here.
Susan,
One of the people I’m getting “lectured” at is you.
Are you a pro?
I’ve made money from screenwriting, so technically I’m a professional.
No, I’m not in the league of anyone who makes a substantial portion of their living from writing, but I have made money. Have you?
I don’t mind being taken to task by real people who have been there and done that, and I don’t care about being the “whipping boy” of this thread but you come across as being one of those wannabes that so zealously (and sanctimonously) guards the gates.
My writing is available for you to read. Want to do the same?
Matt you write:
“I understand the nature of freelancing, but what conveniently doesn’t get mentioned is that doing so is a CHOICE. You are CHOOSING to pursue this path.”
And your point is? Seriously, I haven’t a clue.
Susan,
“And your point is? Seriously, I haven’t a clue.”
His point is “Shut up, quit whining, take what they give you and be grateful. I would be.”
Whatever.
Matt’s a troll. When presented with facts that contradict his views, he ignores ‘em. Notice he hasn’t addressed the fact that this isn’t about minimums, or that we actually ARE winning the PR war. Nope. All he’s here to do is hurl shit at people he loathes. And envies.
How unique.
Matt,
“I don’t mind being taken to task by real people who have been there and done that, and I don’t care about being the “whipping boy” of this thread but you come across as being one of those wannabes that so zealously (and sanctimonously) guards the gates.”
Of all people to be a fucking snob. You’ve just legitimatized your ass kicking.
Alan and Stephen,
Thanks.
Josh,
Bill Clinton.
SusanC.,
Peck at his skull. I’m done.
Kevin,
You were right.
Okay, this has degenerated.
Comments closed.
New article tonight.